TRUMP pushing Hydroxychloroquine + Zpak therapy forward despite FDA conservative approach. As he reasons, "What have we got to lose ?"

[frankfurter + 562]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Sucks to be you

But stick around, always fun to pick on a CCP operative. 

the USA is fascist mess now.  has the most covid cases world wide.  your hatred blinds you to the real facts. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 3/25/2020 at 9:04 AM, frankfurter said:

When you become infected, do let us know how you get on with the drug cocktail.

China gave her citizens new ICU hospitals, new hospital beds in arenas, all with proper filtration of intake and outtake air, water, waste. Over 50,000 doctors and nurses. Thousands of ventilators, CTs, etc. Millions of people tested in a few days. Free medical care, food, clothing, to many millions. And much more. 

The USA gives her citizens tents and army cots, no free medical care, starves it hospitals and staff of critical supplies to protect themselves and to care for the dying, pitiful low number of testings, and much less.

China has donated plane loads of medical supplies and staff to countries who prior expressed hatred of China, Countries who are NATO and thus enemies. What has the USA done? Zero. 

May your hatred help you in your time of need.

 

Well, when you are the one that caused the damned pandemic, the least you could do is donate planeloads of medical supplies and staff....don’t you agree?

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

On 3/24/2020 at 9:04 PM, frankfurter said:

May your hatred help you in your time of need.

I've got a mirror you can borrow.  It might be useful.

[NickW + 2,714]

On 3/22/2020 at 6:19 PM, 0R0 said:

People don't die from the virus, they die from the bacterial pneumonia that takes hold in the inflamed lung tissue, so stopping the bacterial infection helps just as much as stopping the virus. Of course, the chances of a critical patient surviving with or without the drug cocktail is pretty slim. 

I thought in most cases of COVID the Pneumonia was viral

[BLA + 1,666]

10 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I've got a mirror you can borrow.  It might be useful.

The French Trial Report is published today.  It's online for your viewing.

80 patients ( these were all hospitalized patients )

Couple of key data points. 

* 93% had NO VIRUS after 8 days treatment

* Reduces the "virus shedding" that can go on for two weeks after the virus subsides.  In other words not contagious. Reduces the infection rate.

* 79 of the 80 survived . The one death was an 86 year old in very advanced stages of the infections He was on the ventilator from the beginning of the trial.  Apparently if you are to the point of requiring a ventilator your odds are not good, with or without therapies. 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by BLA

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 hours ago, NickW said:

I thought in most cases of COVID the Pneumonia was viral

It is. But is often accompanied by bacterial infections that thrive in the excess liquids of the inflamed lung tissues. Gerry has corrected me on this, that people die more from the CV19 than from the opportunistic bacterial pneumonia.  

Edited March 28, 2020 by 0R0

[0R0 + 6,251]

8 hours ago, frankfurter said:

the USA is fascist mess now.  has the most covid cases world wide.  your hatred blinds you to the real facts. 

Wuhan had 9 million cases alone. 

The reported numbers from China are utter fiction.

They are erasing patient records. Hiding the proof.

Instead of criticizing us, direct your attention to the CCP and steal as much information as you can about the actual data and leak it to Western outlets. And while you are at it, if you manage to throw a high ranking CCP member out the nearest window, we would all appreciate it, and so would the Chinese people younger than 40. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

13 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Wuhan had 9 million cases alone. 

The reported numbers from China are utter fiction.

They are erasing patient records. Hiding the proof.

Instead of criticizing us, direct your attention to the CCP and steal as much information as you can about the actual data and leak it to Western outlets. And while you are at it, if you manage to throw a high ranking CCP member out the nearest window, we would all appreciate it, and so would the Chinese people younger than 40. 

BUT....the window must be on the fifth floor or above! Otherwise they just hit and bounce.

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 hours ago, BLA said:

The French Trial Report is published today.  It's online for your viewing.

80 patients ( these were all hospitalized patients )

Couple of key data points. 

* 93% had NO VIRUS after 8 days treatment

* Reduces the "virus shedding" that can go on for two weeks after the virus subsides.  In other words not contagious. Reduces the infection rate.

* 79 of the 80 survived . The one death was very advanced stages of the infections and was on the ventilator from the beginning of the trial.  Apparently if you are to the point of being on a ventilator your odds are not good, with or without therapies. 

 

Link to article

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

Abstract We need an effective treatment to cure COVID-19 patients and to decrease the virus carriage duration. In 80 in-patients receiving a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin we noted a clinical improvement in all but one 86 year-old patient who died, and one 74 yearold patient still in intensive care unit. A rapid fall of nasopharyngeal viral load tested by qPCR was noted, with 83% negative at Day7, and 93% at Day8. Virus cultures from patient respiratory samples were negative in 97.5% patients at Day5. This allowed patients to rapidly de discharge from highly contagious wards with a mean length of stay of five days. We believe other teams should urgently evaluate this cost-effective therapeutic strategy, to both avoid the spread of the disease and treat patients as soon as possible before severe respiratory irreversible complications take hold.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1243779158737440768

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,131]

9 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

BUT....the window must be on the fifth floor or above! Otherwise they just hit and bounce.

Just do not try it from the 4th floor.  They do not exist in China. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

4 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Just do not try it from the 4th floor.  They do not exist in China. 

Very true...I actually live on floor 3A, not the fourth floor, here in Malaysia due to that superstition.

Good catch!

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Link to article

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

Abstract We need an effective treatment to cure COVID-19 patients and to decrease the virus carriage duration. In 80 in-patients receiving a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin we noted a clinical improvement in all but one 86 year-old patient who died, and one 74 yearold patient still in intensive care unit. A rapid fall of nasopharyngeal viral load tested by qPCR was noted, with 83% negative at Day7, and 93% at Day8. Virus cultures from patient respiratory samples were negative in 97.5% patients at Day5. This allowed patients to rapidly de discharge from highly contagious wards with a mean length of stay of five days. We believe other teams should urgently evaluate this cost-effective therapeutic strategy, to both avoid the spread of the disease and treat patients as soon as possible before severe respiratory irreversible complications take hold.

For any FDA ignoramus, we have a gigantic control group where the "natural" progression of the untreated disease is recorded including the course of the RNA viral load through 10 days and longer. Better than an identical setting, we have multiple circumstances and alternate treatments that were attempted and their viral load progression. This is a major improvement and now brings the total sample to over 100. This is more than just statistically significant. You can improve the confidence in the results with concurring information from non-research treatments applied by doctors as soon as their patients get tested to confirm a lack of live virus. The number of treated cases is well over 2000. Just collect the data and assist by pushing up the priority list those patients treated by HCQ/Z to get a viral test to confirm cure. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

^

If it works, and there are certainly data to suggest it does, then bring it on! 

Even the FDA "ignoramus" physicians have turned a blind eye to its off-label use. 

There is no other friendly treatment. And if you ventured to the front lines, I would suspect you'd find measurable blood levels of Plaquenil and Zithromax in most physicians and ICU nurses. 

One great thing is that both of these drugs are ancient and cheap and easy to manufacture. I would suspect that most every drug house is ramping up as we speak. 

This disease, like many, is probably going to have multiple treatments tailored for severity. We'll see. 

Vis a vis Plaquenil, it is used in lupus and rheumatoid arthritis because it suppresses the immune system--which would, on the face of it, suggest danger in a viral disease. However, it appears that people are dying because of a cytokine storm, resulting in immense damage to pulmonary parenchyma. If say, you could prevent this cytokine storm by immune suppression, then you would prevent the damage. But that raises the question of medium-to-longterm usage. Chronically immunosuppressed lupus and rheumatoid patients are particularly susceptible to any infection, including viral. Will the second wave--a tsunami--get these individuals? We'll see. 

This is like any godawful medical situation coming out of the blue--though most of them present in only single patients or small clusters. In a human disaster the size of this one, you use what you have. In this case, if this saves lives, Dr. Raoult deserves the Nobel Prize for Medicine and Physiology. And even that's not enough praise.  

[0R0 + 6,251]

45 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

One great thing is that both of these drugs are ancient and cheap and easy to manufacture. I would suspect that most every drug house is ramping up as we speak. 

 

Mylan is the only one on record as taking out its old plant out of mothballs. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

53 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Vis a vis Plaquenil, it is used in lupus and rheumatoid arthritis because it suppresses the immune system--which would, on the face of it, suggest danger in a viral disease. However, it appears that people are dying because of a cytokine storm, resulting in immense damage to pulmonary parenchyma. If say, you could prevent this cytokine storm by immune suppression, then you would prevent the damage. But that raises the question of medium-to-longterm usage. Chronically immunosuppressed lupus and rheumatoid patients are particularly susceptible to any infection, including viral. Will the second wave--a tsunami--get these individuals? We'll see. 

 

I was wondering about that, but the proposed anti viral mechanism was that the drug injects zinc into cells, particularly in the lungs, where Dr Raoult found stronger suppression of the virus than in other samples from the throat and nose. 

I am entirely mystified by the role of zithromax in the duo. just that it very strongly improves the results. 

 

Edited March 28, 2020 by 0R0

[BLA + 1,666]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

^

If it works, and there are certainly data to suggest it does, then bring it on! 

Even the FDA "ignoramus" physicians have turned a blind eye to its off-label use.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  

This is like any godawful medical situation coming out of the blue--though most of them present in only single patients or small clusters. In a human disaster the size of this one, you use what you have. In this case, if this saves lives, Dr. Raoult deserves the Nobel Prize for Medicine and Physiology. And even that's not enough praise.  

GM

Aren't their ways to oxygenate or provide oxygen therapy without using a ventilator.  

Is the ventilator the last resort ? 

Edited March 28, 2020 by BLA

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

40 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

I am entirely mystified by the role of zithromax in the duo. just that it very strongly improves the results. 

Well, as you probably know, messenger-RNA is bound by ribosomes out in the cytoplasm of any cell. There they take the genetic template for which nucleic acids are to be made into specific proteins. Were it not for ribosomes there would be no protein synthesis. 

Enter Zithromax, which inhibits ribosomal function. The twist is that it inhibits BACTERIAL ribosomes; viruses don't possess ribosomes. 

The fact that Zithromax works has to be due to the fact that it also inhibits cytoplasmic ribosomes whenever a long-chain single-strand RNA virus is part of the genomic presentation. What an astounding jump in thinking! 

Anyway, using the combo took a lot of thinking outside the box and that's certainly what is needed. I'm willing to give high praise to anyone with the brain and courage to keep trying--this could prove to be just an extraordinary profile in courage. I hope so. 

[BLA + 1,666]

6 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Mylan is the only one on record as taking out its old plant out of mothballs. 

Several Pharma have each donated a  a few million tablets.  The standard pill is usually 200mg.  I heard the French study protocol required 600mg/day for 10 days. 

The donations are greatly appreciated , however just a drop in the bucket when considering what will be needed for U.S.  Sources say since these donations were received Germany (Bayer) and India (Sun) governments have blocked all future exports of HCQ.

_________________________ 

India's Sun Pharma donated 2.5 million tablets last week.

"Several drugmakers, including Novartis, Bayer AG and Teva Pharmaceuticals Industries Ltd, have also donated doses of malaria drugs.

"We are working with supply chain partners and wholesalers to help ensure swift delivery to areas where it will provide the most benefit as the clinical trials progress," said Abhay Gandhi, CEO of the U.S. unit of India's Sun Pharma."

Edited March 28, 2020 by BLA

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

12 minutes ago, BLA said:

GM

Aren't their ways to oxygenate or provide oxygen therapy without using a ventilator.  

Is the ventilator the last resort ? 

I'm not GM obviously, but was watching a doctor explain this on the news last night. Yes, you can put a patient on oxygen to improve their SPOx and that works for awhile, but eventually the cytokine storm Gerry is talking about takes over and now you need the respirator, which does your breathing for you with a peristaltic pump. 

[BLA + 1,666]

4 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

I'm not GM obviously, but was watching a doctor explain this on the news last night. Yes, you can put a patient on oxygen to improve their SPOx and that works for awhile, but eventually the cytokine storm Gerry is talking about takes over and now you need the respirator, which does your breathing for you with a peristaltic pump. 

Sorry 'bout my mix up.  Thanks for the info.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

43 minutes ago, BLA said:

Aren't their ways to oxygenate or provide oxygen therapy without using a ventilator.  

Is the ventilator the last resort ? 

Yes/Yes

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Enter Zithromax, which inhibits ribosomal function. The twist is that it inhibits BACTERIAL ribosomes; viruses don't possess ribosomes. 

Agreed the viri don't have ribosomes but don't the cells they hijack to reproduce have them? 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, BLA said:

Sorry 'bout my mix up.  Thanks for the info.

no mix-up, I butted in. GM had the succinct answer above. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

Agreed the viri don't have ribosomes but don't the cells they hijack to reproduce have them? 

Yes, and that must be where the Zithromax works--there's not much of an alternative "armchair" explanation as this is the only function that I know of from Zithromax.