Fed starts helicopter money. Buying everything . . Treasuries, Bonds, Asset Backed Securities, Corporate Debt.(Won't buy stocks). Start with $650 Billion ! Also Fed "Mainstreet Lending Program" announced has access UP TO $6 Trillion if needed.

[BLA + 1,666]

The economic crisis created by Chinese virus is unprecedented. It has required an unprecedented response.

The respective (1) "Buyback Program" starting with $650 Billion and the (2)  "Mainstreet Lending Program" with access to $6 Trillion is a lot of money, understatement 

With that much money being thrown at the crisis it looks like we could get a strong rebound once the end of the virus crisis is within sight.  

This dwarfs the 2009 Fed buying spree.

Keep your fingers crossed for Hydroxychloroquine + ZPAK .

This Fed program could buy corporate bonds, debt and high yield debt of the Shale Oil Producers.  Do they ? Will they ? Should they ?

Edited March 24, 2020 by BLA

[wrs + 893]

As I have repeatedly said on this forum, the shale producers are not the only US businesses swimming naked.  There are far worse failures now being exposed, CRE is probably much bigger than oil.  It's a huge bubble, much bigger than oil, just think of malls and offices closed now.  Those companies have NO income and the properties were bought with junk debt.  Now that stuff is being liquidated, so much so that the funds that invested in them are having to sell them at a huge loss to let the "investors" out.  Of course they have their tin cups out.

[Meredith Poor + 883]

"...created by Chinese virus" Read up on the Gaia hypothesis. More likely this is the biosphere simply culling an 'invasive species'.

Is Ebola a Chinese infection?

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

40 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

"...created by Chinese virus" Read up on the Gaia hypothesis. More likely this is the biosphere simply culling an 'invasive species'.

Is Ebola a Chinese infection?

You keep bending yourself into a pretzel to protect the Chinese on this. I'm not at all convinced this is a natural virus. Does Gaia operate a CRISP-R system? We may never find the smoking gun but there are casings lying all over the ground and the Chinese will kill and "disappear" any and all evidence they can. But even highly powerful dictatorships make mistakes or some amoral person grows a conscience. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

10 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

or some amoral person grows a conscience.

Name one. And don't say O.J. Simpson or Bill Clinton.

[BLA + 1,666]

21 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

"...created by Chinese virus" Read up on the Gaia hypothesis. More likely this is the biosphere simply culling an 'invasive species'.

Is Ebola a Chinese infection?

Meredith please stop with this nonsense.

A dispute between the Chinese ambassador to the U.S.  and a high ranking CCP Official went public today .   .   .   OOOPS !  The ambassador argued it is wrong to makeup stories that the Covid-19 virus originated in U.S. military when they know that is not true.  That's one brave ambassador.  Meredith check it out in the newswire.

Also, reports indicate the Wuhan virus is still not under control.  Evidence shows that over 160,000 cellphone subscriptions have been cancelled which are related to expired citizens not expired contracts.

You realize the World Health Organization aka WHO is a shill for the Chinese Communist Party.   The Chinese campaigned hard for their man Tedros Adhanom of Ethiopia to be named the head of the organization. China has paid off him and other senior Ethiopian officials to sell the nation's assets on the cheap to China and lock them into their Belt and Road Initiative.  

1. January 11th WHO said that the virus was not transmittable human to human.

2. February 24th WHO Said the virus was under containment. 

3. March 11th WHO FINALLY calls it what it has long been a PANDEMIC.

To this day WHO praises China for their transparency and containment.  U.S. Intelligence confirms the Wuhan virus fatalities are far from over. 

Trump going easy on China.  They are buying U.S. agriculture and meat products per the tariff agreement. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by BLA

[BLA + 1,666]

16 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

You keep bending yourself into a pretzel to protect the Chinese on this. I'm not at all convinced this is a natural virus. Does Gaia operate a CRISP-R system? We may never find the smoking gun but there are casings lying all over the ground and the Chinese will kill and "disappear" any and all evidence they can. But even highly powerful dictatorships make mistakes or some amoral person grows a conscience. 

We'll never know if the virus was created in a lab. However, the fact that there was such an intense attempt to cover it up gives credence to the lab origin theory in my opinion.

It could be a natural virus that was accidentally released as a result of the Lab's sloppy safety practices.

Edited March 24, 2020 by BLA

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, BLA said:

A dispute between the Chinese ambassador to the U.S.  and a high ranking CCP Official went public today .   .   .   OOOPS !  The ambassador argued it is wrong to makeup stories that the Covid-19 virus originated in U.S. military when they know that is not true.  That's one brave ambassador.  Meredith check it out in the newswire. 

 

I don't think the Chinese are aware how much ill will they are garnering and how much it is going to cost them. Their manipulation of international organizations like the WHO and their National buyouts via the BRI will find them out of lots of money as their assets are re-nationalized and their chosen bots in the international organizations end up sidelined or removed, or just not renewed. It will be back to G 20 ex China.

No industrialized country is without intelligence on the ground in China. They know what the CCP is hiding and why. They will eventually weigh the declining business potential of China for their industries both as a market and a production base and source. I would be surprised if Italians want anything to do with China after this experience. The BRI project in Italy is over as far as the people are concerned. 

I think that the Chinese ambassador is sending a message to the CCP at home that poking at injured grizzlies does not end well. 

However, Trump has discovered that poking pandas is fun. He probably had a Winnie the Xi panda bear tie made up for his next visit in China.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

"...created by Chinese virus" Read up on the Gaia hypothesis. More likely this is the biosphere simply culling an 'invasive species'.

Is Ebola a Chinese infection?

Did Ebola originate in China?

[Meredith Poor + 883]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

You keep bending yourself into a pretzel to protect the Chinese on this. I'm not at all convinced this is a natural virus. Does Gaia operate a CRISP-R system? We may never find the smoking gun but there are casings lying all over the ground and the Chinese will kill and "disappear" any and all evidence they can. But even highly powerful dictatorships make mistakes or some amoral person grows a conscience. 

In some of my other blog posts, I suggest that the US should cut off China from direct air travel (along with multiple other countries) until they get rid of their open air wild game markets. Similarly, the US should not incorporate Chinese products in 'critical infrastructure', including power generation, computer networks, water systems, telecommunications, etc. However, the idea that a virus is 'Chinese' doesn't hold up under inspection. It originated in China, and official misbehavior there let it get out of control, however I don't believe it is a deliberate Chinese invention. It is simply about the fourth contagious corona virus to run rampant through the world's population in our lifetimes (AIDS, SARS, MERS, and now Covid-19).

We need to focus our efforts on getting the existing pandemic under control and making sure we're equipped for the next one. Blaming China for this is simply a waste of breath. Focus on fixing rather than scapegoating.

[Meredith Poor + 883]

45 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Did Ebola originate in China?

Ebola originated in Africa, specifically an area near the Ebola river.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

18 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

Ebola originated in Africa, specifically an area near the Ebola river.

Then why did you ask earlier if Ebola was a Chinese infection? All information so far indicates that the Covid-19 virus originated in China, so it is reasonable to use the term ‘a Chinese infection’ in the same way that you could term Ebola an African infection.

This has nothing to do with cause or intent.

Trying to be politically correct is childish during this event and does nothing to solve the problem.

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Meredith Poor said:

In some of my other blog posts, I suggest that the US should cut off China from direct air travel (along with multiple other countries) until they get rid of their open air wild game markets. Similarly, the US should not incorporate Chinese products in 'critical infrastructure', including power generation, computer networks, water systems, telecommunications, etc. However, the idea that a virus is 'Chinese' doesn't hold up under inspection. It originated in China, and official misbehavior there let it get out of control, however I don't believe it is a deliberate Chinese invention. It is simply about the fourth contagious corona virus to run rampant through the world's population in our lifetimes (AIDS, SARS, MERS, and now Covid-19).

We need to focus our efforts on getting the existing pandemic under control and making sure we're equipped for the next one. Blaming China for this is simply a waste of breath. Focus on fixing rather than scapegoating.

I think it is a deliberate Chinese invention. It is just way too much of a coincidence that the Wuhan Biosecurity lab and the recombinant virus research done there with bat coronavirus variants is just across the bridge from the epicenter. As @Gerry Maddoux pointed out, the people taking out the biohazard trash may very well view dead bats as perfectly good food going to waste and go take it to sell at the market. This lab was relatively young and had received criticism over its operations safety, its predecessor lower level biosecure lab in Beijing had 4 SARS escapes in the years before this one opened. Whether it was outright militarized virus or one of many recombinant experiments done there as part of the normal research, it is most likely that is the source. They were aggressively developing viruses they were too ramshackle to handle. They tripped over their boot laces since they were in too much of a rush to go to battle and didn't tie them up.  

The CV19 virus is essentially SARS+HIV. I venture a guess that the Wuhan wet market was not high end enough to have imported African monkeys sitting in cages next to bats to make multiple HIV sequences show up in the otherwise SARS virus RNA. I am not aware of Chinese native monkey species having HIV viruses. So I doubt it was the wet market.

Chinese virus epidemics usually come from close proximity of pig and bird husbandry to people - often sleeping in the same space and not following any rules of hygiene. Hunters and trappers are everywhere and do suffer animal to human jumps, but wet markets are not that popular among game sellers and buyers outside of China, a few other Asian nations and Subsaharan Africa. Historically, you butchered at the wet market since that was the only way to assure fresh meat. That usually ends within one generation of adopting electricity and refrigeration. 

 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

32 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

I think it is a deliberate Chinese invention.

I follow your logic, but why? why create a virus that destroys the world economy? why? Global economic slowdown hurts China more than anybody. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

so it is reasonable to use the term ‘a Chinese infection’

figthing over the narrative does nothing to solve the problem at hand. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

40 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

figthing over the narrative does nothing to solve the problem at hand. 

Exactly! It is simply wasted effort.

[SERWIN + 749]

9 hours ago, 0R0 said:

I don't think the Chinese are aware how much ill will they are garnering and how much it is going to cost them. Their manipulation of international organizations like the WHO and their National buyouts via the BRI will find them out of lots of money as their assets are re-nationalized and their chosen bots in the international organizations end up sidelined or removed, or just not renewed. It will be back to G 20 ex China.

No industrialized country is without intelligence on the ground in China. They know what the CCP is hiding and why. They will eventually weigh the declining business potential of China for their industries both as a market and a production base and source. I would be surprised if Italians want anything to do with China after this experience. The BRI project in Italy is over as far as the people are concerned. 

I think that the Chinese ambassador is sending a message to the CCP at home that poking at injured grizzlies does not end well. 

However, Trump has discovered that poking pandas is fun. He probably had a Winnie the Xi panda bear tie made up for his next visit in China.

It would blow my mind if most of the WORLD didn't decide they don't need China anymore. Decades of skirting the rules, manipulating their currency, making products with essentially slave labor, etc. The list is so long. I would be surprised if China was basically cut off from the rest of the world, with minor exceptions of course. Someone like Maduro will continue to do business, he has no choice now. But Europe, I don't see it continuing a relationship with the country that we all know hid the most important information from the rest of the world. Afterwards, we need to re-establish the WHO, equal funding from all the countries, elected leaders voting for who runs that show. All in an attempt to make the WHO what it should be, not what it is now. A lot of us in America are tired of the crap coming from China, we want to bring almost all manufacturing to the states. I do believe that the world is starting to realize the consequences of doing business with communist countries. Not good. Cheap labor, cheap materials, poisonous materials used. Those companies that have benefited for decades will now be whining like little lost puppies after this is over..... Sucks to be them

[ronwagn + 6,290]

20 hours ago, wrs said:

As I have repeatedly said on this forum, the shale producers are not the only US businesses swimming naked.  There are far worse failures now being exposed, CRE is probably much bigger than oil.  It's a huge bubble, much bigger than oil, just think of malls and offices closed now.  Those companies have NO income and the properties were bought with junk debt.  Now that stuff is being liquidated, so much so that the funds that invested in them are having to sell them at a huge loss to let the "investors" out.  Of course they have their tin cups out.

Yes, but commercial real estate is not essential. There are plenty of vacancies all over the country. Oil and gas are essential. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, SERWIN said:

It would blow my mind if most of the WORLD didn't decide they don't need China anymore. Decades of skirting the rules, manipulating their currency, making products with essentially slave labor, etc. The list is so long. I would be surprised if China was basically cut off from the rest of the world, with minor exceptions of course. Someone like Maduro will continue to do business, he has no choice now. But Europe, I don't see it continuing a relationship with the country that we all know hid the most important information from the rest of the world. Afterwards, we need to re-establish the WHO, equal funding from all the countries, elected leaders voting for who runs that show. All in an attempt to make the WHO what it should be, not what it is now. A lot of us in America are tired of the crap coming from China, we want to bring almost all manufacturing to the states. I do believe that the world is starting to realize the consequences of doing business with communist countries. Not good. Cheap labor, cheap materials, poisonous materials used. Those companies that have benefited for decades will now be whining like little lost puppies after this is over..... Sucks to be them

Serwin, I think China has a lot more clout than you do. I do think that their reputation is going to suffer but most of the world just wants product for the best price. What I want is the best product for the best price but from countries we can trust in the long run. I am not in favor of relying on only American suppliers because we would be paying double and triple for most of our products. A pair of shoes or a pair of slacks costs about the same as it did many decades ago for the American made equivalent. I want it made in Mexico, South America, Southeast Asia, or Africa if possible. China should remain a vendor, but we need everything to be available from multiple sources.

The average American will next be facing an assault from big corporations who are investing in foreign workers while replacing them with telecommuters in asia, artificial intelligence, and automation. We will be facing a lot of big problems from our elites trying to shape the world in their own image. Us stinky Walmart people are fast becoming the underclass if we are not already. Personally, I buy from Amazon whenever possible. 

[SERWIN + 749]

46 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Serwin, I think China has a lot more clout than you do. I do think that their reputation is going to suffer but most of the world just wants product for the best price. What I want is the best product for the best price but from countries we can trust in the long run. I am not in favor of relying on only American suppliers because we would be paying double and triple for most of our products. A pair of shoes or a pair of slacks costs about the same as it did many decades ago for the American made equivalent. I want it made in Mexico, South America, Southeast Asia, or Africa if possible. China should remain a vendor, but we need everything to be available from multiple sources.

The average American will next be facing an assault from big corporations who are investing in foreign workers while replacing them with telecommuters in asia, artificial intelligence, and automation. We will be facing a lot of big problems from our elites trying to shape the world in their own image. Us stinky Walmart people are fast becoming the underclass if we are not already. Personally, I buy from Amazon whenever possible. 

No, I disagree with you. How many people in a year are going to look at a product that was made in a country that killed someone in their family, freinds, co-workers, and really want to put their money into those hands again. How many people are going to willingly want to give their money to the country that DESTROYED their countries economy? The sentiment is rising now to take China's economy back to the third world state it deserves, just evening up the economy with the government in power. I don't want anything from China anymore, and if you adopt that same attitude, you will probably figure out how much of that crap you can live without. Besides, I HAVE figured out that the shit that comes from China does not last as long as the homemade stuff does. I have been watching clothes I have bought from both and the Chinese stuff really is crap. Within six months they look worn out already. Just cheap junk to fill our landfills with anymore. I would think that the tree huggers would HATE chinese made goods, if for no other reason than that...

Think about it this way. When we were kids our parents could buy a good washer and dryer set for roughly 300.00 each USD. You can still get a washer and dryer for around that same price, but they will only last for a couple of years at most. Last time I bought a set I paid about 2500.00 for the set, and they are still running 10 years later. How can you expect something to last when the cost is the same as 30 years ago, the cost has to go down somehow, so crappy materials are the obvious choice, plastic, plastic, plastic used for even parts that are taking all the stress of the machine while running. Our parents bought those same appliances and they ran well for decades, with maybe a part here and there. I put a new bearing in my washer last year and I think I finally replaced the heating element in the dryer this year. So putting that instant gratification in your home makes you happy then? I think you will find that you get peace of mind NOT buying the cheap crap coming out of China and finding a quality product that will perform to your expectations for years to come. I do, and I know I didn't put money into the Chiese pockets and enable them to do what they have been doing for the last thirty years to the rest of the world. They are already running around pointing at others and making baseless accusations, do you really want to keep on supporting that crap? What happens next time? They release something that kills us all? Time to shut the door on that one y'all....

And how do you feel about them having our pharmacy in their hands, so many times in the last ten years we are finding out that they have done the unthinkable, AGAIN. Drugs pulled for impurities that will harm us if taken... Do you actually TRUST them anymore, because I don't. I think that Trump is right about bringing that medical manufacturing back here, any country that doesn't like the idea of another country pulling their strings whenever they choose should consider that option. What they have done DESTROYS any previous notion that globalism is the way to go. Think about it Ron, who do you trust, the Chinese or goods made in your own country by someone that actually gives a damn? WE as consumers collectively have more clout than the chinese government will ever have. Its time to raise awareness about what our alternatives are...

Edited March 24, 2020 by SERWIN

[Meredith Poor + 883]

14 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Then why did you ask earlier if Ebola was a Chinese infection? All information so far indicates that the Covid-19 virus originated in China, so it is reasonable to use the term ‘a Chinese infection’ in the same way that you could term Ebola an African infection.

This has nothing to do with cause or intent.

Trying to be politically correct is childish during this event and does nothing to solve the problem.

The context of 'Chinese infection' as it's being used here is either 'China deliberately created this', or 'China suppressed information and wasted time until it got out of control'. Since there is a long history of wildlife to human disease transmission, the fact that China acted to suppress 'fear mongering' wouldn't have made much difference if the source was from wildlife, and there were multiple exposures in different places at slightly different times. There is also an assumption in some of these posts that China's control over the population is absolute and precise; this is nonsense. Much of the CCP's effort is focused on preventing unrest, this requires keeping people working. That, in turn, suggests that the CCP knows full well it can only do so much.

[0R0 + 6,251]

13 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I follow your logic, but why? why create a virus that destroys the world economy? why? Global economic slowdown hurts China more than anybody. 

It was an accidental release.

The development is just as logical as MAD. What's the point of having the capacity to destroy the world a fourth time over? Wouldn't the first time be enough?

Bioweapons are developed in many places, mostly in a defensive capacity. You develop multiple pathogens to see what and how they do damage and see how to defeat each one of them. The militarized portion of the work is aerosolization and other dispersion. This one survives so long on cold hard surfaces so long that there is no point in working on distribution, public surfaces need to be sterilized repeatedly. 

The Chinese plan as stated is to release a bioweapon in the US to wipe out the population so that they can waltz on over and resettle it for its natural resources. Particularly food. So it is obviously an ongoing effort. But even if they were only busy with defensive work (some even funded by the US' DARPA) the danger of accidental release remains just the same, as is the nature of the pathogens created. 

 

[BLA + 1,666]

5 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Yes, but commercial real estate is not essential. There are plenty of vacancies all over the country. Oil and gas are essential. 

Commercial real estate WAS essential. Until the internet brought us online retail and telecommuting.  Who needs malls now ?  Less office space is required.

Will less oil be needed when electric cars become the norm  ? 

 

[BLA + 1,666]

1 hour ago, 0R0 said:

Bioweapons are developed in many places, mostly in a defensive capacity. You develop multiple pathogens to see what and how they do damage and see how to defeat each one of them. The militarized portion of the work is aerosolization and other dispersion. This one survives so long on cold hard surfaces so long that there is no point in working on distribution, public surfaces need to be sterilized repeatedly. 

 

Did you see Princess Cruise lines checked a cabin that housed a CV19 traveler.  THERE WAS LIVE VIRUS STILL PRESENT 17 DAYS LATER.

Edited March 24, 2020 by BLA

[0R0 + 6,251]

17 minutes ago, BLA said:

Did you see Princess Crouse lines checked a cabin that housed a CV19 traveler.  THERE WAS LIVE VIRUS STILL PRESENT 17 DAYS LATER.

Yes indeed. 

The ship's history is the best piece of information we have on the virus propagation and the disease progression. It is also scary because of the measured persistence of the virus in the cabins and the fact that 60% had no symptoms at all. It will be interesting to check their samples for antibodies to see how many of them got infected. I suspect it is much closer to 100% than the current live virus test indicating at 20%.