A government-funded analysis found hydroxychloroquine ineffective for COVID-19, increases risk of death

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

“Specifically, hydroxychloroquine use with or without co-administration of azithromycin did not improve mortality or reduce the need for mechanical ventilation in hospitalized patients,” they wrote. “On the contrary, hydroxychloroquine use alone was associated with an increased risk of mortality compared to standard care alone.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/study-of-hydroxychloroquine-trump-promoted-coronavirus-drug-finds-more-deaths?source=articles&via=rss

Observe the "glorious" leader Donald Trump with a fresh load of lies and evasions on the topic - because that's his method. Brush aside the expert advice, listen to loyalists, yes men and various interest group lobbyist, make random decisions, if they work, paint yourself a savior, if not, blame someone else. 

As long as the cult magic works - clap your hands, yesterday's lies are forgotten, today's lie becomes the tomorrow's truth. 

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Ah yes, quoting The Daily Beast, that shining beacon of far left journalistic integrity.

Carry on.

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

Well, it either happened, or it did not happen. In this case, the study does exist, and it says what the article says. The messenger is not all that important.

There are things they won't tell you on heavily censored Fox News with their "Alternate reality" approach: 

"Bring me the news!"

"Lord Warwick is dead, sir!"

"No, I don't like this news! Bring me the other news!"

"Sir Warwick is alive, sir!"

"Great! We should celebrate!"

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Quote

A government-funded analysis found hydroxychloroquine ineffective for COVID-19, increases risk of death

Nope.

BUSTED: Media Uses VA ‘Study’ To Launch Easily Debunked Attack On Hydroxychloroquine

Read the ^ article. 

And here is an analysis of this article:

The Department of Veterans Affairs study (Outcomes of hydroxychloroquine usage in United States veterans hospitalized with Covid-19) being pushed by the media right now is not a randomized control study, nor has it been peer reviewed. It is a retroactive analysis. The problem with retrospective analysis is that it relies upon secondary data where researchers have no control over how the data was initially collected, essentially making any conclusions in such research studies biased or incomplete. The VA study being pushed by the media right now only involved 385 patients, of which only 368 males between the ages of 59 and 75 were evaluated.

From the study: “…hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters. Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin.”  Given the various clinical characteristics of the patients shown in the study, and the fact that differing treatment protocols were given for various underlying morbidities, it is not possible to accurately determine the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine from this retrospective analysis.

From the study: “…we cannot rule out the possibility of selection bias or residual confounding.”  In other words, the study does not account for variables that influence both dependent and independent variables. In this case, associated variables pertaining to morbidities are not causally related, essentially making the any conclusions about the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine unreliable.

From the study: “Our findings may also be influenced by the demographic composition of patients in our cohort, the majority of whom were black.”  236 of the patients used in this study were black. The median age for the patients was over 65 years. Correlations regarding mortality pertaining to age and race were not established in the documentation of this retrospective analysis, so the study’s conclusions about treatment efficacy are inadequate.

The documentation of this retrospective analysis does not indicate anything about the usage of zinc. Given that the hypothetical anti-viral mechanism of hydroxychloroquine is to open the cellular pathway for zinc, the analysis from the VA is incomplete. Hypothetically, hydroxychloroquine allows zinc to enter cells, inhibiting the replicase enzyme, effectively preventing COVID-19 from replicating. 

The political left is acting as if this study proves that the treatment touted by President Trump is somehow tantamount to snake oil. Given the weaknesses of the study, those who espouse such an opinion are clearly wrong.

As you are reading this, the media is conducting a coordinated effort to promote this particular study to discredit and tarnish the President and his supporters. They are pushing what amounts to a false narrative, and people may very well die because of it. 

Here is a link to the study:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf

======================================================================

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/ScottFantasy/status/1252786512808292360

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

It's sad, isn't it?  ^^

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

4 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

It's sad, isn't it?  ^^

TDS combined with 4am talking points gets amusing sometimes.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Nope.

 

The Department of Veterans Affairs study (Outcomes of hydroxychloroquine usage in United States veterans hospitalized with Covid-19) being pushed by the media right now is not a randomized control study, nor has it been peer reviewed. It is a retroactive analysis. The problem with retrospective analysis is that it relies upon secondary data where researchers have no control over how the data was initially collected, essentially making any conclusions in such research studies biased or incomplete. The VA study being pushed by the media right now only involved 385 patients, of which only 368 males between the ages of 59 and 75 were evaluated.

 

 

The French trail was small and not blind. yet you liked using that study as evidence.

You can't just look at studies that show promise and ignore everything else.

Unfortunately, Hydroxychloroquine is not the miracle you hoped.  If it was so fantastic we wouldn't be seeing ~1000 death/day in the US alone.

You can't argue that it hasn't been tried by plenty at this point.  Everyone and their dog has heard of it by now. There is no conspiracy preventing it from saving lives if it worked so well.  Sure, it might help but it's no miracle.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

10 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

You can't argue that it hasn't been tried by plenty at this point.  Everyone and their dog has heard of it by now. There is no conspiracy preventing it from saving lives if it worked so well.  Sure, it might help but it's no miracle.

Let's agree to disagree.

The concerted MSM talking points all saying the same thing at the same time, knocking HCQ ... does that concern you in any way?

[ No benefits, more deaths. ]

So scary, right?

Critical thinking not needed, just be happy to be told what to think, right?

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Let's agree to disagree.

The concerted MSM talking points all saying the same thing at the same time, knocking HCQ ... does that concern you in any way?

[ No benefits, more deaths. ]

So scary, right?

Critical thinking not needed, just be happy to be told what to think, right?

Fox and conservative media are MSM. If 1/3-1/2 of your population is into 'whatever', by definition that 'whatever' IS main stream.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

10 minutes ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Fox and conservative media are MSM. If 1/3-1/2 of your population is into 'whatever', by definition that 'whatever' IS main stream.

Fox is MSM? What you been smokin boy? Mainstream media is the usual suspects, the old school charlatans. Fox News broke that mold. If your brain is unwilling or unable to make that connection I'm more than happy to define MSM = Liberal Media since you're so happy to call something "conservative media". Only a moron would equate "conservative media" with MS . 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

What part of if 1/3-1/2 of your population is confusing you? Main stream means what ever a large percentage of your population is doing. So if a large percentage of people are getting their media through Fox or various 'conservative' outlets they are main stream.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing
typos

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Fox and conservative media are MSM. If 1/3-1/2 of your population is into 'whatever', by definition that 'whatever' IS main stream.

I also view Fox as Mainstream, controlled opposition.

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

3 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Let's agree to disagree.

The concerted MSM talking points all saying the same thing at the same time, knocking HCQ ... does that concern you in any way?

[ No benefits, more deaths. ]

So scary, right?

Critical thinking not needed, just be happy to be told what to think, right?

All the media 'sides' uses talking points that are disseminated into their respective bubbles. On the bright side seems like less and less people are calling it news anymore so I guess that's progress! Maybe one day we'll have actual reporting and near-objective news again. Gee wiz wouldn't that be a nice.

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

6 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I also view Fox as Mainstream, controlled opposition.

Thank god not everybody's drinking the cool aid. The whole conservative/liberal media crap has become all consuming for too much of the population. From where I'm sitting the whole thing looks like a giant divide and profit strategy that not enough people will step back and see.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

13 minutes ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Thank god not everybody's drinking the cool aid.

[Hotone + 412]

Fox news has already fallen out of love with hydroxychloroquine.  

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/media/fox-news-hydroxychloroquine-reliable-sources/index.html

Oh, they also fired the top doctor developing the CV19 vaccine, after he resisted widespread adoption of hydroxychloroquine.  Dr. Rick Bright was removed from his post for insisting that “the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic” be put toward “safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit.”

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hotone

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

The French trail was small and not blind. yet you liked using that study as evidence.

You can't just look at studies that show promise and ignore everything else.

Unfortunately, Hydroxychloroquine is not the miracle you hoped.  If it was so fantastic we wouldn't be seeing ~1000 death/day in the US alone.

You can't argue that it hasn't been tried by plenty at this point.  Everyone and their dog has heard of it by now. There is no conspiracy preventing it from saving lives if it worked so well.  Sure, it might help but it's no miracle.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

 

I think it has been a miracle for many, I have heard their stories. It also seems to be the best drug to take early in the treatment plan. You are, of course, free to refuse it as anyone is. Especially Yoshiro. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, Hotone said:

Fox news has already fallen out of love with hydroxychloroquine.  

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/media/fox-news-hydroxychloroquine-reliable-sources/index.html

Oh, they also fired the top doctor developing the CV19 vaccine, after he resisted widespread adoption of hydroxychloroquine.  Dr. Rick Bright was removed from his post for insisting that “the billions of dollars allocated by Congress to address the Covid-19 pandemic” be put toward “safe and scientifically vetted solutions, and not in drugs, vaccines and other technologies that lack scientific merit.”

When you oppose the President of the United States and those over you because of your intransigence it is nobody's fault but your own. He was just plain wrong and deserved to be fired.

Fox did not go against hydroxychloroquine either. You are welcome to refuse it though. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

In my personal opinion, there are simply too many people involved in the issue who simply want to make a buck or a reputation out of this pandemic at this point.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

56 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I think it has been a miracle for many, I have heard their stories. It also seems to be the best drug to take early in the treatment plan. You are, of course, free to refuse it as anyone is. Especially Yoshiro. 

Unfortunately, with often self-resolving diseases "fake cures" can appear to be effective.  If you give 100 people with the common cold a single piece of raw broccoli on day 1, it has 99.9 % effectiveness at "curing" the cold by day 9.  Silly example, but still, many people go to bed feeling terrible and wake up feeling way better the next day -without any treatment- for a wide variety of ailments.  If they took XYZ pill the night before they falsely attribute the recovery to the pill.

I'm not saying it doesn't help.  I just think we would be seeing more response if it were a miracle drug.

I would take it if a physician offered, but that doesn't mean I need to promote it before I see more data.

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Accepting the Null is the high scientific high road.

Clinging to a hypothesis that is not holding water is the low road.

 

"However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results"

-Winston Churchill

Edited April 23, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

In my personal opinion, there are simply too many people involved in the issue who simply want to make a buck or a reputation out of this pandemic at this point.

Par for the course.

[Rob Plant + 2,610]

5 hours ago, ronwagn said:

13 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

The French trail was small and not blind. yet you liked using that study as evidence.

You can't just look at studies that show promise and ignore everything else.

Unfortunately, Hydroxychloroquine is not the miracle you hoped.  If it was so fantastic we wouldn't be seeing ~1000 death/day in the US alone.

You can't argue that it hasn't been tried by plenty at this point.  Everyone and their dog has heard of it by now. There is no conspiracy preventing it from saving lives if it worked so well.  Sure, it might help but it's no miracle.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

 

I think it has been a miracle for many, I have heard their stories. It also seems to be the best drug to take early in the treatment plan. You are, of course, free to refuse it as anyone is. Especially Yoshiro. 

As there appear to be at least 33 different mutations of the virus that have been identified so far is it not the case that Hydroxychloroquine or any other drug may be far more effective on 1 strain as opposed to another?? Also doesn't it depend on the optimum time-frame during infection of when to take these drugs?

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-has-mutated-into-more-than-30-strains-say-scientists-in-china-11976380

I would welcome opinion on this especially @Gerry Maddoux and @Oro 

Also Ron the availability of actually taking Hydroxychloroquine in may countries / States seems to be a problem, so it may not actually be a choice many of us get to make presently.

[James Regan + 1,776]

CNN SHOWING NO RESPECT FOR THE US PRESIDENT- THIS IS TREASON

While watching my favourite show of the the week The situation Room with Herr Wulf Blitzkreig I was flabbergasted after waiting for what seemed an internity for the CV19 brief they aired the presidents team starting with Berk and her "thats a really good question" intro and then on to Steve Munchen etc and when it came time for "The President" to speak CNN cut it off and went to some democrat talking about massage parlours in Georgia, while POTUS was addressing the nation, this happened two days on the trot, then what was broadcasted was the edited version of his parle with reporters.

Is this legal to cut off a head of state or your president in mid address to the nation, what could be more breaking news? Something is wrong in the USA that this kind of thing happens, god forbid you did this in the UK if the Queen was on the box, you would be thrown in the tower.

Last night Trump was smart he started interrupting the journalists from the sidelines with some fairly heated rhetoric, I think the guy who has to hit the Trump disappear button at CNN realised that it was going to get hairy and left him speaking. CNN is tarting to look like North Korean TV, blatant censorship is this not covered in the 1st amendment - Freedom of speech - surely the president out Trumps massage parlours in Georgia?

You guys have some work to do, forget foreign policy best stay at home for a while and sort it out.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 hours ago, James Regan said:

CNN is tarting to look like North Korean TV, blatant censorship

Great typo  : )

2 thumbs up