Sharp, concise, correct argument for ending lockdown

[TooSteep + 142]

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

The numbers back it up. He is also correct about the best strategy for long-term protection of the elderly.

Pass this around!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Yes, read this earlier today, and agree.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Related article, for after the lockdowns end.

There Will Be Blowback, In Mostly Good Ways

Two months ago, it had been mandatory in my local grocery to use only shopping bags brought from home. Plastic bags were illegal by local ordinance. Then the virus hit. Suddenly the opposite was true. It was illegal to bring bags from home because they could spread disease. Plastic bags were mandatory. As a huge fan of plastic bags, I experienced profound Schadenfreude. 

It’s amazing how the prospect of death clarifies priorities.  ...

...

2. Blowback Against Politicians
You do recall, don’t you, that the governors and mayors who imposed the lockdowns never asked their citizens about their views about instantly getting rid of all rights and freedoms. They didn’t consult legislatures. They didn’t consult a range of expert opinion or pay attention to any serious demographic data that showed how utterly preposterous it was to force non-vulnerable populations into house arrest while trapping vulnerable populations in nursing homes that became Covid-soaked killing fields.

They thought nothing of shattering business confidence, violating contractual rights, wrecking tens of millions of lives, prohibiting freedom in association, tanking the stock market, blowing all budgets, shutting down international travel, and even closing the churches. Amazing. Every government executive except a few became a tin-pot dictator.

The first hint of the possible blowback came from Henry Kissinger who warned in the Wall Street Journal on April 8: “Nations cohere and flourish on the belief that their institutions can foresee calamity, arrest its impact and restore stability. When the Covid-19 pandemic is over, many countries’ institutions will be perceived as having failed.”

Yes, that’s quite an understatement.   ...

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

15 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Related article, for after the lockdowns end.

There Will Be Blowback, In Mostly Good Ways

Two months ago, it had been mandatory in my local grocery to use only shopping bags brought from home. Plastic bags were illegal by local ordinance. Then the virus hit. Suddenly the opposite was true. It was illegal to bring bags from home because they could spread disease. Plastic bags were mandatory. As a huge fan of plastic bags, I experienced profound Schadenfreude. 

It’s amazing how the prospect of death clarifies priorities.  ...

...

2. Blowback Against Politicians
You do recall, don’t you, that the governors and mayors who imposed the lockdowns never asked their citizens about their views about instantly getting rid of all rights and freedoms. They didn’t consult legislatures. They didn’t consult a range of expert opinion or pay attention to any serious demographic data that showed how utterly preposterous it was to force non-vulnerable populations into house arrest while trapping vulnerable populations in nursing homes that became Covid-soaked killing fields.

They thought nothing of shattering business confidence, violating contractual rights, wrecking tens of millions of lives, prohibiting freedom in association, tanking the stock market, blowing all budgets, shutting down international travel, and even closing the churches. Amazing. Every government executive except a few became a tin-pot dictator.

The first hint of the possible blowback came from Henry Kissinger who warned in the Wall Street Journal on April 8: “Nations cohere and flourish on the belief that their institutions can foresee calamity, arrest its impact and restore stability. When the Covid-19 pandemic is over, many countries’ institutions will be perceived as having failed.”

Yes, that’s quite an understatement.   ...

 

Is anyone disputing these numbers:

The recent Stanford University antibody study now estimates that the fatality rate if infected is likely 0.1 to 0.2 percent, a risk far lower than previous World Health Organization estimates that were 20 to 30 times higher and that motivated isolation policies.  

In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 11 per 100,000 in the population. On the other hand, people aged 75 and over have a death rate 80 times that. For people under 18 years old, the rate of death is zero per 100,000. 

Of all fatal cases in New York state, two-thirds were in patients over 70 years of age; more than 95 percent were over 50 years of age; and about 90 percent of all fatal cases had an underlying illness. Of 6,570 confirmed COVID-19 deaths fully investigated for underlying conditions to date, 6,520, or 99.2 percent, had an underlying illness. If you do not already have an underlying chronic condition, your chances of dying are small, regardless of age. And young adults and children in normal health have almost no risk of any serious illness from COVID-19.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

"plus videos with serious voices"

Good one ^^!

Edited April 25, 2020 by Dan Warnick

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

15 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Related article, for after the lockdowns end.

There Will Be Blowback, In Mostly Good Ways

Aaah.......

I just experienced a long exhale.  A measure of tension evaporating.  There are sensible heads still "out there" (since isolation, it's ALL "out there").  Thanks, Tom.  I needed that.

And thanks @TooSteep.  These days I have bounced back and forth on whether or not The Hill was still a good source of news.  Going by that article I'm going to give them another go.  That article was also a breath of fresh air (at least as much as I could feel it passing by my mask--covered face!  Ha-ha!) and helps to restore some faith in our brethren.  Missed you, brethren!

[Boat + 1,315]

Even to this day you cannot go to a store and find items recommended to fight a virus. No masks, disinfectant, etc. Hospitals only take emergency patients while elective procedures are on hold. Even with the massive effort to contain the virus hospitals and supply chains were overwhelmed. 
So yea, let’s open up the economy and send the system to a higher level of crisis. Let’s turn loose those with the virus that don’t know they have it. It’s only a few thousand old people who will pay with their lives. 
You want to do the right thing and be tested so there is some assurance your not killing grandma. Ain’t gonna happen. No testing available. 
Maybe the system needs to catch up with the demand created by the virus before we unleash the next wave of death and disruption.

[Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas + 96]

57 minutes ago, Boat said:

Even to this day you cannot go to a store and find items recommended to fight a virus. No masks, disinfectant, etc. Hospitals only take emergency patients while elective procedures are on hold. Even with the massive effort to contain the virus hospitals and supply chains were overwhelmed. 
So yea, let’s open up the economy and send the system to a higher level of crisis. Let’s turn loose those with the virus that don’t know they have it. It’s only a few thousand old people who will pay with their lives. 
You want to do the right thing and be tested so there is some assurance your not killing grandma. Ain’t gonna happen. No testing available. 
Maybe the system needs to catch up with the demand created by the virus before we unleash the next wave of death and disruption.

Oh no!!  People will die!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWhbUUE4ko

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

2.8 million Americans die every year!!  I blame Trump!!  It's Trump's fault!!

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 4/26/2020 at 8:49 PM, Boat said:

Even to this day you cannot go to a store and find items recommended to fight a virus. No masks, disinfectant, etc. Hospitals only take emergency patients while elective procedures are on hold. Even with the massive effort to contain the virus hospitals and supply chains were overwhelmed. 
So yea, let’s open up the economy and send the system to a higher level of crisis. Let’s turn loose those with the virus that don’t know they have it. It’s only a few thousand old people who will pay with their lives. 
You want to do the right thing and be tested so there is some assurance your not killing grandma. Ain’t gonna happen. No testing available. 
Maybe the system needs to catch up with the demand created by the virus before we unleash the next wave of death and disruption.

Nothing in the store to fight a virus.  Hospitals overwhelmed.  What drugs were hospitals using to fight the virus?  As far as has been reported (forgive me if I'm wrong), it would appear that hospitals became a testing ground of various cocktails of drugs to see if anything worked.  Hospitals did not have direction from any authorities worldwide as to treatment because there is no treatment, yet.  It has become painfully evident that ventilators, and yes I'm talking about the proper types of ventilators, ended up not being the answer; they ended up being/doing what they were designed to do, for some patients; not all.  What those ventilators reportedly do is keep a person alive, in some cases, long enough for the virus to run its course.

If you read the entire article at the link, you will know that even in the worst affected cities the death rate was not high enough to warrant a worldwide shutdown.  We know that now; we did NOT know that at the beginning and isolation was absolutely necessary. 

What's left, short of a vaccine, is herd immunity.  Isn't that correct?

So, it's lessons learned time.  In the future, should we let our hospitals be overwhelmed with patients they cannot save?  Or should we take other actions?  It's an incredibly bitter and cold pill to swallow, but some people are going to die, even with a vaccine if we ever get one.  Until then, humans have to get on with living, else many systems that sustain the human race fail.

(Don't write me or others off because we are reading the data that is available now.  We are no less intelligent than you.  You and I were good people yesterday and we are good people today.)

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:51 PM, Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas said:

Oh no!!  People will die!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWhbUUE4ko

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

2.8 million Americans die every year!!  I blame Trump!!  It's Trump's fault!!

You're probably right, but not all 2.8 million people die from TDS every year.

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

I blame Trump for being a total moron who does not know how disinfectants work, and for stupidly lying about his own statements only a day after (you were on cameras, stupid! Wake up!). I also blame anyone who is capable of voting for him, because supporting such a person is a clear symptom of impaired judgement and/or absolute moral decadence. But that's not important - the sane people see this clearly, and the members of his cult are probably lost to reason forever. 

But that's not important. COVID 19 is number one cause of death in the USA today. Even the reported numbers are probably underestimated, because due to new facts, the virus also kills by clotting people's blood, so many people dying from it are go unreported and stroke or embolic victims. It's also quite clear that states that took measures early have controlled, manageable outbreak and still functional healthcare system, while states like USA or Britain who trivialized the danger have overwhelmed medical system, dying healthcare professionals and not enough capacities to treat other diseases as a result. 

It's hard to understand the stupidity of people calling for repealing the restrictions - and you can see the same and same image on those "Free Minesota" rallies - a morbidly obese guy with a megaphone, demanding his right to get infected by a virus that first and foremost kills morbidly obese people, instead of being thankful for measures that at least give him a chance. Bizarre. 

[Coffeeguyzz + 454]

As of this posting, New York City has 12,287 fatalities attributed to COVID 19.

Tokyo, similar size and density, still has only 100 COVID related deaths.

NYC has been in lockdown mode for weeks, whereas Tokyo - with a death rate 120 TIMES less than NYC - has NOT instituted a lockdown.

[Boat + 1,315]

On 4/27/2020 at 9:33 AM, Dan Warnick said:

Nothing in the store to fight a virus.  Hospitals overwhelmed.  What drugs were hospitals using to fight the virus?  As far as has been reported (forgive me if I'm wrong), it would appear that hospitals became a testing ground of various cocktails of drugs to see if anything worked.  Hospitals did not have direction from any authorities worldwide as to treatment because there is no treatment, yet.  It has become painfully evident that ventilators, and yes I'm talking about the proper types of ventilators, ended up not being the answer; they ended up being/doing what they were designed to do, for some patients; not all.  What those ventilators reportedly do is keep a person alive, in some cases, long enough for the virus to run its course.

If you read the entire article at the link, you will know that even in the worst affected cities the death rate was not high enough to warrant a worldwide shutdown.  We know that now; we did NOT know that at the beginning and isolation was absolutely necessary. 

What's left, short of a vaccine, is herd immunity.  Isn't that correct?

So, it's lessons learned time.  In the future, should we let our hospitals be overwhelmed with patients they cannot save?  Or should we take other actions?  It's an incredibly bitter and cold pill to swallow, but some people are going to die, even with a vaccine if we ever get one.  Until then, humans have to get on with living, else many systems that sustain the human race fail.

(Don't write me or others off because we are reading the data that is available now.  We are no less intelligent than you.  You and I were good people yesterday and we are good people today.)

It should have been tracking infected patients and who they came in contact with so they could be quarantined. Don’t pretend this shouldn’t have happened as early as late January. Some Asian countries did exactly that and did not have massive economic disruption along with old folks dying at alarming rates. 
Our health care system and leadership sucked and theirs didn’t. When we get to the point where we know where every patient got infected and test those that came in contact with that patient we can open up. But those standards can’t be overwhelmed or bk to lockdown.

PS, were also not ready for an open economy if a normal citizen can’t find masks, disinfectant and access to timely test kit results.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Boat

[Boat + 1,315]

On 4/24/2020 at 4:57 PM, TooSteep said:

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

The numbers back it up. He is also correct about the best strategy for long-term protection of the elderly.

Pass this around!

Workers should work with  proper protection  after everyone has been cleared by testing. The idea of putting workers at risk without these common sense protections puts lives in danger and drives up costs.

[TooSteep + 142]

On 4/26/2020 at 6:49 AM, Boat said:

Even to this day you cannot go to a store and find items recommended to fight a virus. No masks, disinfectant, etc. Hospitals only take emergency patients while elective procedures are on hold. Even with the massive effort to contain the virus hospitals and supply chains were overwhelmed. 
So yea, let’s open up the economy and send the system to a higher level of crisis. Let’s turn loose those with the virus that don’t know they have it. It’s only a few thousand old people who will pay with their lives. 
You want to do the right thing and be tested so there is some assurance your not killing grandma. Ain’t gonna happen. No testing available. 
Maybe the system needs to catch up with the demand created by the virus before we unleash the next wave of death and disruption.

You obviously didn't read the article, and you're not keeping up with the big picture news. The entire focus of the article is the optimal way to keep grandma alive long term!!!!

And the overwhelming majority of hospitals are decidedly underwhelmed. Emergency room visits in my area are down 60%. Staff have nothing to do. That is the norm.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Rand Paul Delivers EXPLOSIVE Speech From Senate Floor After Recovering From Coronavirus