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1 hour ago, Geoff Guenther said:

 

Why was it pulled?

 

51 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

Probably something to do with this policy

"Earlier this month, YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki told CNN that the company would ban any video content that contradicted World Health Organization recommendations.

However, Wojcicki suggested that this would mainly be focused on banning information about fake cures, not questioning of government policy."

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/youtube-censors-viral-video-california-doctors-criticizing-stay-home-order

More from the ZH article:

YouTube has censored a viral video in which two doctors criticized the logic of whether California’s stay-at-home coronavirus order is necessary.

The video, which had racked up over 5 million views, featured Dr. Dan Erickson and Dr. Artin Massihi, co-owners of Accelerated Urgent Care in Bakersfield, Calif.

In the clip, Erickson asserts that there is only a “0.03 chance of dying from COVID in the state of California,” prompting him to ask:

“Does that necessitate sheltering in place? Does that necessitate shutting down medical systems? Does that necessitate people being out of work?”  ...

 

... Another version of the original video that YouTube deleted appears below.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Geoff Guenther said:

Well, alcohol thins blood, so may cause less clotting. Maybe he had a point 😉

 

Maybe he had a pint!  Let's face it, there's always a good reason to have a pint, even if it's a point!

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37 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

I really don't understand the point of locking up healthy people who have very little chance of dying or becoming seriously ill and I cannot imagine how some people are coping. I work from home and am used to not really going out for months when I'm busy (a distant memory now) and this is really affecting me. I think we should focus on protecting the vulnerable and elderly but we appear to have done the exact opposite, I wonder if you would at least agree with that?

I absolutely agree that we should be focusing on protecting the elderly and vulnerable. Unfortunately, since the US/UK governments let the virus spin out of control there is no hope of protecting the vulnerable and elderly.

My issue began when gor the entire month of February both the US and UK administrations refused to even acknowledge that this was an issue. By the time they had acknowledged the issue it was far beyond their control and they had no choice but to institute lockdowns.

My continuing issue with both governments is that they are not coming up with comprehensive plans on direction. At least they are hiding everything from the public. Maybe they're planning a surpise attack on the virus - by their actions to-date I wouldn't doubt it.

If the governments presented non-spun rules for how opening up would work - the tests and capabilities they need to ensure safety, do people wear masks, what social distancing we'll start with, what would restart lock-downs, and so on - I would have more faith in their ability to handle it. At least the Trump administration put out some guidelines, even if they immediately undermined them. The jokers in Westminster just talk about how burglaries have dropped.

 

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21 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

In the clip, Erickson asserts that there is only a “0.03 chance of dying from COVID in the state of California,” prompting him to ask:

Well, false data he's could be why they pulled the video. NY State already has a 0.12% death rate and that's still rising. Granted, all the west coast states seemed much more prepared from the beginning.

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1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Another version of the original video that YouTube deleted appears below.

Also available on bitchute

https://thedonald.win/p/FMqPeyQi/youtube-has-deleted-dr-erikson-c/c/

(The comments are fun)

Sample:

Are these the docs from Commiefornia who have tested and treated over 5000 patients, and who said Fauci can stuff it because he has neither practiced medicine nor treated any patients in over 20 years?

==========================

also ....

X92NL0NQ.jpeg.f7125e4ce5beacfebaa09ffa3f1fc62a.jpeg

 

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Geoff Guenther said:

I absolutely agree that we should be focusing on protecting the elderly and vulnerable. Unfortunately, since the US/UK governments let the virus spin out of control there is no hope of protecting the vulnerable and elderly.

My issue began when gor the entire month of February both the US and UK administrations refused to even acknowledge that this was an issue. By the time they had acknowledged the issue it was far beyond their control and they had no choice but to institute lockdowns.

My continuing issue with both governments is that they are not coming up with comprehensive plans on direction. At least they are hiding everything from the public. Maybe they're planning a surpise attack on the virus - by their actions to-date I wouldn't doubt it.

If the governments presented non-spun rules for how opening up would work - the tests and capabilities they need to ensure safety, do people wear masks, what social distancing we'll start with, what would restart lock-downs, and so on - I would have more faith in their ability to handle it. At least the Trump administration put out some guidelines, even if they immediately undermined them. The jokers in Westminster just talk about how burglaries have dropped.

 

It is possibly our faults in the first place, for trusting the government completely while we have to prepare for that in the individual level, just like we would if we expected a storm is coming or an economical recession. Secondly how can any government in Western World persuade anyone to do things without cooperate with the media, yet the media was full of political agenda and was discredited many time. Our current situations everyone has their responsibility.

-Government: do relatively nothings out of fear of panicking people sell out all of the stocks if the data from China was correct. Tried to calm us down instead.

- Media: Was long not considered trustworthy with many people with their biased and inflating any other events for political purpose or donators, I don't think they mind if SP500 collapse which prove they were right about Trump and it may affect the Trump's chance in the election. Or they do mind if the economy collapse, who know?

-The people,us: depend on media and government to issue guidelines to follow.  And if media and government disagree on things, we pick side to follow. We don't take the cautious preparation as in individual level.  Maybe lot's of people don't mind dictatorship or human right and want to have a nanny state. If it was 20 years ago, I would expect news would be like"everyone should wear a mask now".

I really want to wear mask back on January but the way people looked at me made me hesitates. I sent 2 N95 masks to my friend's in London yet when she wore it and get outside for a walk in London during the lockdown, people looked at her like she was crazy or why she didn't save it for a health worker but went to buy it (I sent it from the US, hello), and none of them were wearing masks (surgical one or normal one or anything covering their mouths and noses)

Lots of us want to think Trump is an idiot and no political experience, would you listen to him if he said wear a mask in public with 3200 death an a lock down in China?

Lots of us didn't think mask was no use for the disease from the WHO and media. Even they kept saying no evidence in can spread on aerosol for a long time until they changed. WHO didn't issue a pandemic warning until they must and even didn't recommend to wear masks until recently. It is a corona virus type, they may spread faster, easier to contract but the way they spread should be the same.We didn't worry about it ourselves until lockdown, and who didn't know the number of death in China or Wuhan lockdown?

Any country where people don't trust what ever China and WHO say, they turn out alright:  Australia, HongKong, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Vietnam etc.

No individual person or policy can help for preventing a abnormal disaster. They can only have the protocol to minimize it or reduce the effect. If we response to disaster news without a persuasive number, our economy will be very vulnerable.  Perhaps the best way should always be we gear up ourselves with mask,an social distance whenever we can when a disease is coming our way. I don't understand why flu kill that many people every year but wearing a mask is still an unusual behaviors.

Edited by SUZNV
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760,000 tests performed in the UK

161,000 positive

21% of people tested were positive

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(edited)

6 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

I absolutely agree that we should be focusing on protecting the elderly and vulnerable. Unfortunately, since the US/UK governments let the virus spin out of control there is no hope of protecting the vulnerable and elderly.

My issue began when gor the entire month of February both the US and UK administrations refused to even acknowledge that this was an issue. By the time they had acknowledged the issue it was far beyond their control and they had no choice but to institute lockdowns.

My continuing issue with both governments is that they are not coming up with comprehensive plans on direction. At least they are hiding evorerything from the public. Maybe they're planning a surpise attack on the virus - by their actions to-date I wouldn't doubt it.

If the governments presented non-spun rules for how opening up would work - the tests and capabilities they need to ensure safety, do people wear masks, what social distancing we'll start with, what would restart lock-downs, and so on - I would have more faith in their ability to handle it. At least the Trump administration put out some guidelines, even if they immediately undermined them. The jokers in Westminster just talk about how burglaries have dropped.

 

we do not need comprehensive, national, or any other plans. We need doctors to instruct their patients as to the degree of PPE they should apply for their risk profile. The degree and type of social isolation they should take. There is no rule that is generally applicable. The virus is not lethal in itself for the vast majority of people. Stopping the spread of the virus is not a goal. Obtaining herd immunity is the ultimate goal. Doing so without a vaccine can be accomplished within a month. Accomplishing it with a vaccine is useless, since there will be no economy if we wait for it. HIV is 40 years without a vaccine, SARS 18 years. This is a close cousin to SARS, a vaccine is not likely unless through an entirely new approach is employed, e.g. the RNA vaccine from Moderna. Treatments for the ill are emerging with varying degrees of success and speeding of recovery. When applied early, they can avoid hospitalization, and hospitalizations may recover rather than stay without treatment of the disease as had been the case early on. 

There is already no need to keep any economy shut down. There is no need to be concerned about a recurrence. We want the recurrence to happen. 

The WHO should be publicly shamed by the political class and direct all officials to ignore WHO advice or accept any of their pronouncements as facts, not participate in medical trials they direct and not fund cooperative activities with it. When evidence shows that a member of the WHO is a Chinese agent, then it should be made public. The target isn't the particular people of the WHO but its position of authority as a scientific body and standing as a medical organization, rather than the bureaucratic political body it actually is. 

There will be no re-lockdown in the next conflagration. it was a stupid idea promoted by ill meaning people based on uncalibrated models projecting nonsense influencing panicked politicians copying each other's headless chicken behavior. 

 

Edited by 0R0
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4 hours ago, El Nikko said:

760,000 tests performed in the UK

161,000 positive

21% of people tested were positive

Good news, you are halfway to herd immunity. If you quarantine the elderly and go back to business as usual now, you will be at sufficient herd immunity. About 40% of the population are the active train and bus riders and kids and their parents who do most of the virus transmission, once they are immune, the spread is much slower through the rest of society thus can't produce overwhelming waves of hospitalizations, and then as you approach 80% it is the end of the pandemic. The most idiotic idea is to wait for a vaccine. 

You know with certainty it is the most outrageously wrong idea because that is what the media is promoting. 

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(edited)

The vid was pulled because it was misleading.

  • We don't know if covid is natural or artificial. Reputable people are standing on both sides of this fence.
  • This covid appears to be 100% contagious, and thus humans have zero immunity. Thus masks, distancing, cleanliness, contact avoidance are key prevention measures.
  • The virus requires a live host to survive and replicate. It has a dormant and active stage. 
  • The virus has 3 types; A, B, C. 
  • Rapid test kits test for antibodies, eg IGG. They are useful to determine if a patient HAD the virus. They are useless to determine if a patient HAS the virus during dormant or early active stage. This is partly why some countries claimed their kits were ineffective: they were using the kits wrongly for the wrong purposes.
  • Nucleic acid test kits test for the presence of the virus. These are costly and time consuming. They are 100% accurate when the virus is active. We do not know their efficacy when the virus is dormant.
  • Death rate can be determined ex-post only, not ex-ante.  For those few countries to gain control, the death rate appears to average 5% of infections when patients receive treatment; 12% when not. Covid death rate is thus far higher than a 'typical flu'. But we are still in early days. 
  • Cured patients suffer permanent damage to their organs: the severity varies greatly.
  • Zero research is available to conclude whether a cured patient has immunity or is no longer a carrier (vector). 
Edited by frankfurter
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guarantee

13 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Good news, you are halfway to herd immunity. If you quarantine the elderly and go back to business as usual now, you will be at sufficient herd immunity. About 40% of the population are the active train and bus riders and kids and their parents who do most of the virus transmission, once they are immune, the spread is much slower through the rest of society thus can't produce overwhelming waves of hospitalizations, and then as you approach 80% it is the end of the pandemic. The most idiotic idea is to wait for a vaccine. 

You know with certainty it is the most outrageously wrong idea because that is what the media is promoting. 

There are some that now think we reached peak infections on the 18th of March well over a week before the lockdown which would make sense given that the peak hospital bed usage and deaths were on/around the 8th of April.

Unfortunately our dithering PM won't make a decision and the public are still terrified thanks to the media.

I agre about the vaccine, there's no guarantee they will make one and there is no guarantee it won't have mutated again by next year making the vaccine useless...in fact the latter is quite likely.

 

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9 hours ago, frankfurter said:

The vid was pulled because it was misleading.

No, it was pulled because YouTube will not permit anything that goes contrary to the Covid panic / lockdown narrative.

Clearly, you - specifically you @frankfurter - want the panic / lockdown narrative to continue, because in your comments you consistently and actively fight against anything that goes contrary to the Covid Panic / Lockdown Narrative.

Any possible Covid good news or Covid hope is bad or wrong, according to your consistent comments on this forum.

You are free to prove me wrong.  If I am wrong, it should be simple for you to quote some of your earlier comments which provide hope or good news about Covid. 

If I am right, then you are simply another panic-monger who refuses any good news or any possibility of ending global lockdowns.

Good luck in proving me incorrect in your intentions.  Mere denials do not count.  Show me from your earlier comments anything you have said that goes contrary to the panic narrative or lockdown narrative.

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On 4/28/2020 at 10:25 PM, frankfurter said:

 

> We don't know if covid is natural or artificial. Reputable people are standing on both sides of this fence.

Actually there are not many reputable people claiming that the virus is artificial. Even current "Wuhan is at fault"-theories claim an accidental release of a natural virus used for research purposes.

> This covid appears to be 100% contagious, and thus humans have zero immunity.

Actually, it is not **that** contagious. Current estimates of R0 range from 1.5 to 5. Which means it might be more or less contagious than the typical flu, but it is nothing compared to something like measles, whose R0 is around 20.

> It has a dormant and active stage. 

That is currently a proposal and we do not know yet if that is true at all.

> For those few countries to gain control, the death rate appears to average 5% of infections when patients receive treatment; 12% when not.

Those seem to be exaggerated numbers. In isolated communities where we have actual information about infections and deaths, the death rate seems to lie around 1%. Might be 0.5%, might be 2%, but nothing seems to support 5%-12% for the average population.

> Cured patients suffer permanent damage to their organs: the severity varies greatly.

I would like to see some evidence for that. Practical all medical experts agree that the majority of cases have mild symptoms without chronic damage.

> Zero research is available to conclude whether a cured patient has immunity or is no longer a carrier (vector). 

Also not true. We cannot know for **sure** yet, but there is research on highly related viruses which indicate that natural immunity is produced, but to varying degrees. It has not been conclusively proven, but it seems likely that you are at least protected for this season. Data is very inconclusive how much you will be protected next year.

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On 4/28/2020 at 10:25 PM, frankfurter said:

The vid was pulled because it was misleading.

  • We don't know if covid is natural or artificial. Reputable people are standing on both sides of this fence.
  • This covid appears to be 100% contagious, and thus humans have zero immunity. Thus masks, distancing, cleanliness, contact avoidance are key prevention measures.
  • The virus requires a live host to survive and replicate. It has a dormant and active stage. 
  • The virus has 3 types; A, B, C. 
  • Rapid test kits test for antibodies, eg IGG. They are useful to determine if a patient HAD the virus. They are useless to determine if a patient HAS the virus during dormant or early active stage. This is partly why some countries claimed their kits were ineffective: they were using the kits wrongly for the wrong purposes.
  • Nucleic acid test kits test for the presence of the virus. These are costly and time consuming. They are 100% accurate when the virus is active. We do not know their efficacy when the virus is dormant.
  • Death rate can be determined ex-post only, not ex-ante.  For those few countries to gain control, the death rate appears to average 5% of infections when patients receive treatment; 12% when not. Covid death rate is thus far higher than a 'typical flu'. But we are still in early days. 
  • Cured patients suffer permanent damage to their organs: the severity varies greatly.
  • Zero research is available to conclude whether a cured patient has immunity or is no longer a carrier (vector). 

All items are wrong.

Provide proof and references.

This long list of dings has been refuted on this forum multiple times and has been addressed by others already. 

As Tom pointed out, it is the laundry list of scary costumes to put on all facts so as to produce panic. 

This is a virus. The particulars of it are different by some degrees from others that are better studied. 

The Infection mortality rate is between 0.03% and 0.3% depending on population density and prevailing mode of transmission. The numbers you quote are nonsense as they only include symptomatic patients presenting for treatment. We know that over 90% of the infected do not get significant symptoms and thus don't get tested. A large portion of the "CV19 deaths" are from other causes, as the stats only record that you died and you tested positive for CV19. Your presentation of the data is like the CDC's, highly exaggerated. 

How many coronaviruses are on record with no immunity? how about none. if there is no immunity how is a vaccine going to provide it? 

The tiny minority of infected that get a severe form of the disease do get serious damage to the lungs, of the people to develop large quantities of antibodies there is visible lung damage on CTs even if symptoms were mild  What we don't now yet is when and whether one recovers completely.

Fortunately there are quite a few options to treat the disease and reduce the negative outcomes and its duration. Most are in use before trials are completed. 

There is no need to do a lock down, never was a good reason for it but for institutional panic, and in the West, the politicos just decided to do what China did. Just like the CCP they were headless chickens. 

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(edited)

It is rather rare that we see a Chinese official interviewed and answering questions directly related to the Pandemic.  In today's episode of the BBC's Hard Talk with Stephen Sackur we have an opportunity to do just that as he interviews China's U.K. Ambassador, Liu Xiaoming.  An interesting comment from the Ambassador is that he thinks Stephen "gets too much of his facts" and information from the media, specifically the Washington Post.  It's a good point, but the rest of the interview seems to show an agitated and highly defensive man.  Is the Ambassador right about most points, delusional, or outright lying?  The entire interview is worth watching.  Hope you find it informative.

 

Edited by Dan Warnick
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Every statement, every question coming from Sackur is an accusation. Sackur is attempting to be the prosecution in some pretend court of his own making. Such is not my idea of an 'unbiased interview'.  The ambassador is quite right to question Sackur's knowledge and motives. 

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It's really sad to see the unscientific garbage people like 0R0 spread here around, which contradicts everything the actual experts in the area recommends. It's dangerous and irresponsible - as is touting untested drugs as panaceas, or telling people to just inject bleach and "ride it like a cowboy". Social distancing and lockdowns are recommended and practiced for good, and well argumented reasons, and the scenarios developing in various countries clearly indicate that disciplined nations that can put their common goal (survival) above selfish needs of the individual are much more successful in battling the pandemic than those preferring fetishist worship of profits and individual comfort at every cost ("I excercise my FREEDOM to get a haircut!"). 

The USA has the most dead in the world from the virus, it has already killed more people than Vietnam war, one would thing it will serve as a wake up call for the more delusional part of the population, but no. "We demand freedom to go to the pub and infect other people!" Because that's exactly what you do when you ignore the expert advice and act selfishly. You infect other people, killing some of them, because they belong to the vulnerable groups. It's ironic that the same people that want to rob women of their right to decide about themselves by chosing abortion, calling themselves "Pro-Life" are now perfectly okay will killing vulnerable people in the name of profit. 

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Deaths per million...US is doing well in that regard and much better than many European countries

hjhghj.PNG

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(edited)

The tragedy of the Covid-19 pandemic appears to be entering the containment phase. Tens of thousands of Americans have died, and Americans are now desperate for sensible policymakers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts. Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function. Five key facts are being ignored by those calling for continuing the near-total lockdown.

Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from Covid-19. The recent Stanford University antibody study now estimates that the fatality rate if infected is likely 0.1 to 0.2 percent, a risk far lower than previous World Health Organization estimates that were 20 to 30 times higher and that motivated isolation policies.

In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 10 per 100,000 in the population. On the other hand, people aged 75 and over have a death rate 80 times that.

 

For people under 18 years old, the rate of death is zero per 100,000. Of all fatal cases in New York state, two-thirds were in patients over 70 years of age; more than 95 percent were over 50 years of age; and about 90 percent of all fatal cases had an underlying illness. Of 6,570 confirmed Covid-19 deaths fully investigated for underlying conditions to date, 6,520, or 99.2 percent, had an underlying illness. If you do not already have an underlying chronic condition, your chances of dying are small, regardless of age. And young adults and children in normal health have almost no risk of any serious illness from COVID-19.

Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding. We can learn about hospital utilization from data from New York City, the hotbed of Covid-19 with more than 34,600 hospitalizations to date. For those under 18 years of age, hospitalization from the virus is 0.01 percent, or 11 per 100,000 people; for those 18 to 44 years old, hospitalization is 0.1 percent. Even for people ages 65 to 74, only 1.7 percent were hospitalized. Of 4,103 confirmed Covid-19 patients with symptoms bad enough to seek medical care, Dr. Leora Horwitz of NYU Medical Center concluded “age is far and away the strongest risk factor for hospitalization.” Even early WHO reports noted that 80 percent of all cases were mild, and more recent studies show a far more widespread rate of infection and lower rate of serious illness.

 

Half of all people testing positive for infection have no symptoms at all. The vast majority of younger, otherwise healthy people do not need significant medical care if they catch this infection.

Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem. We know from decades of medical science that infection itself allows people to generate an immune response – antibodies – so that the infection is controlled throughout the population by “herd immunity.”

Indeed, that is the main purpose of widespread immunization in other viral diseases – to assist with population immunity. In this virus, we know that medical care is not even necessary for the vast majority of people who are infected. It is so mild that half of infected people are asymptomatic, shown in early data from the Diamond Princess ship, and then in Iceland and Italy.

That has been falsely portrayed as a problem requiring mass isolation. In fact, infected people without severe illness are the immediately available vehicle for establishing widespread immunity. By transmitting the virus to others in the low-risk group who then generate antibodies, they block the network of pathways toward the most vulnerable people, ultimately ending the threat. Extending whole-population isolation would directly prevent that widespread immunity from developing.

 

Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections. Critical health care for millions of Americans is being ignored and people are dying to accommodate “potential” Covid-19 patients and for fear of spreading the disease. Most states and many hospitals abruptly stopped “nonessential” procedures and surgery. That prevented diagnoses of life-threatening diseases, like cancer screening, biopsies of tumors now undiscovered and potentially deadly brain aneurysms. Treatments, including emergency care, for the most serious illnesses were also missed. Cancer patients deferred chemotherapy. An estimated 80 per cent of brain surgery cases were skipped. Acute stroke and heart attack patients missed their only chances for treatment, some dying and many now facing permanent disability. 

Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures. The overwhelming evidence all over the world consistently shows that a clearly defined group – older people and others with underlying conditions – is more likely to have a serious illness requiring hospitalization and more likely to die from Covid-19. Knowing that, it is a commonsense, achievable goal to target isolation policy to that group, including strictly monitoring those who interact with them. Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry.

 

The appropriate policy, based on fundamental biology and the evidence already in hand, is to institute a more focused strategy like some outlined in the first place: Strictly protect the known vulnerable, self-isolate the mildly sick and open most workplaces and small businesses with some prudent large-group precautions. This would allow the essential socializing to generate immunity among those with minimal risk of serious consequence, while saving lives, preventing overcrowding of hospitals and limiting the enormous harms compounded by continued total isolation. Let’s stop underemphasising empirical evidence while instead doubling down on hypothetical models. Facts matter.

Scott W. Atlas, MD, is the David and Joan Traitel Senior Fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution and the former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center. A version of this article originally appeared in The Hill

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/04/30/five-facts-suggest-lockdown-mistake/

Edited by El Nikko
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3 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

It's really sad to see the unscientific garbage people like 0R0 spread here around, which contradicts everything the actual experts in the area recommends. It's dangerous and irresponsible - as is touting untested drugs as panaceas, or telling people to just inject bleach and "ride it like a cowboy". Social distancing and lockdowns are recommended and practiced for good, and well argumented reasons, and the scenarios developing in various countries clearly indicate that disciplined nations that can put their common goal (survival) above selfish needs of the individual are much more successful in battling the pandemic than those preferring fetishist worship of profits and individual comfort at every cost ("I excercise my FREEDOM to get a haircut!"). 

The USA has the most dead in the world from the virus, it has already killed more people than Vietnam war, one would thing it will serve as a wake up call for the more delusional part of the population, but no. "We demand freedom to go to the pub and infect other people!" Because that's exactly what you do when you ignore the expert advice and act selfishly. You infect other people, killing some of them, because they belong to the vulnerable groups. It's ironic that the same people that want to rob women of their right to decide about themselves by chosing abortion, calling themselves "Pro-Life" are now perfectly okay will killing vulnerable people in the name of profit. 

Yoshiro for President!

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