BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 9, 2020 621,000 miles. "First Lexus EV comes with 1 million-km warranty for its air-cooled battery"https://electrek.co/2020/05/08/first-lexus-ev-comes-with-1-million-km-warranty-for-its-air-cooled-battery/ 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom Kirkman + 8,860 May 9, 2020 5 hours ago, BradleyPNW said: 621,000 miles. "First Lexus EV comes with 1 million-km warranty for its air-cooled battery"https://electrek.co/2020/05/08/first-lexus-ev-comes-with-1-million-km-warranty-for-its-air-cooled-battery/ Impressive. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 May 9, 2020 My faith in batteries was severly shaken during this lockdown. The battery pack in my Mac ‘swelled up’, warped the casing, and then ignited. Luckily I was home when it burst into flame. How much better is the battery techology in a Tesla? Honest question.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,537 May 9, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said: My faith in batteries was severly shaken during this lockdown. The battery pack in my Mac ‘swelled up’, warped the casing, and then ignited. Luckily I was home when it burst into flame. How much better is the battery techology in a Tesla? Honest question.... Toyota has a very deep well of hybrid/ev technology in there portfolio. You could assume only the best from them. I'm afraid it's a bit late to the market, between Telsa and this covid debacle it will fade abruptly into oblivion. It's quite easy for anyone to track ev sales along with the price of gas....for the next few years I see a very low trend. Edited May 9, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said: My faith in batteries was severly shaken during this lockdown. The battery pack in my Mac ‘swelled up’, warped the casing, and then ignited. Luckily I was home when it burst into flame. How much better is the battery techology in a Tesla? Honest question.... This Lexus battery is air cooled. Tesla/Honda/Toyota/Chevy are liquid cooled. They are all heated for cold weather driving performance. They all have chemistry differences but the temp control is what makes them last so long. Tesla batteries are better than the other manufacturers, however, if Lexus is guaranteeing 621,000 miles we've hit a point of diminishing returns. That's the kind of mileage where you'd need to drive it like a taxi to beat the warranty. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said: Impressive. Yes, Lexus supplies a transferable warranty. I don't know if they'll exclude the battery in this case but if they include the 621,000 battery in a transferable warranty, wow. https://www.thedrive.com/car-warranty/29189/lexus-warranty 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeyboardWarrior + 527 May 9, 2020 Are most of these EV batteries air cooled? If a battery needs liquid cooling then I have serious doubts about its efficiency. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Gato + 251 Bs May 9, 2020 Impressive warranty, but the range still sucks. Until you have a vehicle that has a 500mi+ range and a charging time of 15 min or less, you will never hit the mainstream in the US 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 May 10, 2020 58 minutes ago, El Gato said: Impressive warranty, but the range still sucks. Until you have a vehicle that has a 500mi+ range and a charging time of 15 min or less, you will never hit the mainstream in the US I would think that a 350 mile range would be adequate, especially if it could charge in 25 minutes. The price of the vehicle would have to be a lot closer to a gasoline vehicle for the foreseeable future though. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 10, 2020 I have a 2019 Honda Clarity, the red headed step child of EVs. 40 mile range, takes 2 hrs to charge on 220V. I believe 9 hours on 110V. 40 miles is more than my commute. It also happens to be a PHEV which means it has a gasoline engine that will take over if I run out of charge. I very rarely fill the 7 gallon gasoline tank. Tesla owners despise it because it isn't full EV and it isn't a 3.9 second rocket ship. In a city you don't need to have a lot of range. You are stop and go, few miles driven at a pop. What people don't think about is how we actually use our cars. When you get home you plug it in. It's habit. It's easy. 2 1 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 May 10, 2020 It sucks.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Warnick + 6,100 May 10, 2020 3 hours ago, ronwagn said: I would think that a 350 mile range would be adequate, especially if it could charge in 25 minutes. The price of the vehicle would have to be a lot closer to a gasoline vehicle for the foreseeable future though. I tend to agree, Ron. 350 / 70 Mph = 5 hours of driving. 5 hours of driving will get most of us where we want to go, get an overnight charge, drive around locally and do what we came for, and then head back home. Unless one is relocating, most people (pre-pandemic & talking about the U.S.) fly these days rather than drive more than 5 hours. Anyway, that's just me. There is no doubt that us older folks actually used to love driving across country, but do the young generations of today? And it is simply obvious that commuting 50 miles or less a day makes perfect sense for an EV with a range of 350 miles. Especially if you have (not sure of the proper name for it) the type of charger that lays on the floor of your garage and you just pull in over it to start the charge, same as wireless charging our cell phones. If they make the price comparable to ICE cars/trucks and throw in a garage charging mat, I don't see why a majority of folks wouldn't take advantage of it. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 May 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said: I tend to agree, Ron. 350 / 70 Mph = 5 hours of driving. 5 hours of driving will get most of us where we want to go, get an overnight charge, drive around locally and do what we came for, and then head back home. Unless one is relocating, most people (pre-pandemic & talking about the U.S.) fly these days rather than drive more than 5 hours. Anyway, that's just me. There is no doubt that us older folks actually used to love driving across country, but do the young generations of today? And it is simply obvious that commuting 50 miles or less a day makes perfect sense for an EV with a range of 350 miles. Especially if you have (not sure of the proper name for it) the type of charger that lays on the floor of your garage and you just pull in over it to start the charge, same as wireless charging our cell phones. If they make the price comparable to ICE cars/trucks and throw in a garage charging mat, I don't see why a majority of folks wouldn't take advantage of it. A very important factor to me is how long the vehicle could be made to last with normal maintenance. We keep our vehicles until they are nearly worthless and start to cost too much to repair. That is usually around ten years maximum, shorter if driving a lot. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Warnick + 6,100 May 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, ronwagn said: A very important factor to me is how long the vehicle could be made to last with normal maintenance. We keep our vehicles until they are nearly worthless and start to cost too much to repair. That is usually around ten years maximum, shorter if driving a lot. It looks like they might already be there. All you have to do is take a leap of faith and believe the data as presented. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Dan Warnick said: It looks like they might already be there. All you have to do is take a leap of faith and believe the data as presented. Maybe, but I like to see actual results by a lot of others. I also prefer minivan to larger vehicles. With gasoline prices the way they are I would not take the jump, especially since we own three relatively new vehicles. Very large van, minivan, subcompact. Do you have any statistics on the life of electric vehicles and maintenance costs etc? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Warnick + 6,100 May 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, ronwagn said: Maybe, but I like to see actual results by a lot of others. I also prefer minivan to larger vehicles. With gasoline prices the way they are I would not take the jump, especially since we own three relatively new vehicles. Very large van, minivan, subcompact. Do you have any statistics on the life of electric vehicles and maintenance costs etc? Not I, sir. Just following along politely and trying to gauge progress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 May 10, 2020 As I indicated earlier, the battery pack in my Mac recently ignited spectacularly. Apparently these packs swell, and once the battery case is breached and air gets to the lithium, they spontaneously combust. Wouldn’t this be an issue in any EV involved in a crash? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Warnick + 6,100 May 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: As I indicated earlier, the battery pack in my Mac recently ignited spectacularly. Apparently these packs swell, and once the battery case is breached and air gets to the lithium, they spontaneously combust. Wouldn’t this be an issue in any EV involved in a crash? There is something to your concerns, Doug. CNBC reported the following in October: Tesla under investigation on claim it throttled batteries to hide fire risk According to a notice published on Tuesday, the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has opened an investigation into Tesla over a possible defect in Model S and Model X battery packs that could cause “non-crash fires.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 May 10, 2020 Perhaps they should also look into impact cracking battery cases and the lithium combusting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 10, 2020 14 hours ago, ronwagn said: Maybe, but I like to see actual results by a lot of others. I also prefer minivan to larger vehicles. With gasoline prices the way they are I would not take the jump, especially since we own three relatively new vehicles. Very large van, minivan, subcompact. Do you have any statistics on the life of electric vehicles and maintenance costs etc? Here's an article on Tesla maintenance costs. But since you mentioned minivans, I just bought a 2020 Toyota Sienna. Why new rather than an older used model -- which is financially smarter. Because anti-crash technology. A 2020 Sienna will hit the brakes for you in a forward impact while a 2012 will not. Vehicle automation will motivate early retirement of used vehicles toward the end of this decade. By the time that happens, batteries will already be cheaper than gasoline so everyone will be retiring their gasoline engines for batteries by default. They will demand the robot and get the battery. Volvo is releasing Level 3 autonomous on very specific highways in 2022. By the end of the decade we will have unlimited Level 3. The US vehicle fleet will rapidly transition away from gasoline toward batteries as moms demand Level 3 safety just like they demand SUVs today. https://www.motor1.com/reviews/406938/tesla-maintenance-cost/ 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 May 11, 2020 I hope that works out Bradley. I am mainly a cost and size for my money oriented person. Minivans are the sweet spot but we have the big Nissan NV for extended travel with a lot of stuff or people. I think a lot will depend on the gasoline price to allow the electric industry to grow fast. I am pretty confident that natural gas will be the primary producer of the electricity though. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 11, 2020 10 hours ago, ronwagn said: I hope that works out Bradley. I am mainly a cost and size for my money oriented person. Minivans are the sweet spot but we have the big Nissan NV for extended travel with a lot of stuff or people. I think a lot will depend on the gasoline price to allow the electric industry to grow fast. I am pretty confident that natural gas will be the primary producer of the electricity though. In the USA, natural gas to electric is good because it's American. It gets us off a global commodity that enriches petro-state authoritarians. US cities need to convert to EV/PHEV as soon as possible to reduce national oil demand. They have the right driving conditions for EV. Rural America should stick with gasoline and hybrid because they drive long distances and don't have stop and go traffic. Also, minivans are brilliant. If I could only have one car it would be a minivan. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW May 19, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 4:33 PM, BradleyPNW said: In the USA, natural gas to electric is good because it's American. It gets us off a global commodity that enriches petro-state authoritarians. US cities need to convert to EV/PHEV as soon as possible to reduce national oil demand. They have the right driving conditions for EV. Rural America should stick with gasoline and hybrid because they drive long distances and don't have stop and go traffic. Also, minivans are brilliant. If I could only have one car it would be a minivan. PHEV works well in rural areas too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW May 19, 2020 On 5/10/2020 at 10:35 AM, Douglas Buckland said: Perhaps they should also look into impact cracking battery cases and the lithium combusting. Gasoline is rather good at igniting in accidents too. At least the Lithium is kept in one place. A cracked fuel tank has the habit of spreading out underneath the vehicle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 19, 2020 4 hours ago, NickW said: PHEV works well in rural areas too. Yes. You're right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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