Why COVID-19 Won't Crush Renewables

[BradleyPNW + 282]

"As for the disturbance of the oil and coal markets by renewables, which seems to be the real beef, is this a new type of phenomenon? Looking at the last 200 years of energy usage we see an ongoing process of displacement. Coal displaced wood and water power. Kerosene and manufactured gas displaced sperm whale oil. Petroleum displaced coal and horses. Natural gas displaced manufactured gas and coal. Now it appears renewables will displace fossil fuels. And in due course something else is likely to replace renewables. The long term problem for fossil fuel producers lies with consumers who not only like to do more with less but also to try new products. It is not all about price. "

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-COVID-19-Wont-Crush-Renewables.html

[BradleyPNW + 282]

I don't care about climate change or CO2 reduction. I care about price reduction and energy security that favors liberal democracy over authoritarian petro-states. And I get a similar feeling to what this author conveys, antagonism toward renewables is ultimately antagonism toward change. 

[Rufus + 15]

I just read a report that said 600,000 jobs lost in renewables so far due to Covid. No details on where they were lost though. 

[Rufus + 15]

3 hours ago, BradleyPNW said:

"As for the disturbance of the oil and coal markets by renewables, which seems to be the real beef, is this a new type of phenomenon? Looking at the last 200 years of energy usage we see an ongoing process of displacement. Coal displaced wood and water power. Kerosene and manufactured gas displaced sperm whale oil. Petroleum displaced coal and horses. Natural gas displaced manufactured gas and coal. Now it appears renewables will displace fossil fuels. And in due course something else is likely to replace renewables. The long term problem for fossil fuel producers lies with consumers who not only like to do more with less but also to try new products. It is not all about price. "

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-COVID-19-Wont-Crush-Renewables.html

Just as WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones, the replacement for renewables (including nuclear) will probably be twigs and branches (and dug-up garbage dumps).

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,131]

4 hours ago, BradleyPNW said:

I don't care about climate change or CO2 reduction. I care about price reduction and energy security that favors liberal democracy over authoritarian petro-states. And I get a similar feeling to what this author conveys, antagonism toward renewables is ultimately antagonism toward change. 

So instead the world will be forced to fight over the Authoritarian Congo, China, and Russia for their rare mineral resources to build the "renewables"

Listen to yourself man. 

[BradleyPNW + 282]

Do we not need to mine minerals when we use fossil fuels? 

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

So instead the world will be forced to fight over the Authoritarian Congo, China, and Russia for their rare mineral resources to build the "renewables"

Listen to yourself man. 

I think you will find those 'rare minerals' are not so rare and can  found in the west. So far there hasn't been the incentive to mine them. Now there is prospectors are looking over old core drill data. 

Example - Cornwall (UK) has plenty of Lithium. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,131]

37 minutes ago, NickW said:

I think you will find those 'rare minerals' are not so rare and can  found in the west. So far there hasn't been the incentive to mine them. Now there is prospectors are looking over old core drill data. 

Example - Cornwall (UK) has plenty of Lithium. 

Lithium is not a rare mineral.  The only bright point in the minerals criteria is that quite a few can be mined in Australia.  Cobalt, Cesium, Tellurium, Indium, Neodynium, Vanadium, Graphhite, etc are still massive problems. 

Now quite a bit of this can be mined in the west, but this means the cost of the base materials drastically increases as no one gives an environmental damn in the developing world.  Now PERSONALLY, I would put equal tariffs on minerals and products with said minerals ever time one passes new regulations unless said country the minerals come from have same or equivalent regulations.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,131]

3 hours ago, BradleyPNW said:

Do we not need to mine minerals when we use fossil fuels? 

Those minerals  for mining are iron ore for tools.... World will literally never run out of iron ore.  Now you can argue for catalysts, but still need same catalysts if you go all electrical route. 

I'm just saying, pretending we are getting away from a resource mining problem going renewables is an epic joke. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by footeab@yahoo.com

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

8 hours ago, BradleyPNW said:

And I get a similar feeling to what this author conveys, antagonism toward renewables is ultimately antagonism toward change. 

For me it's strictly financial. All the effort on this forum hasn't presented a scenario where renewables generate greater returns, even when they go to the bottom of capital expenditure and cut gas capacity factor by 50% (which doesn't answer the questions regarding older gas plants which have greater capacity factor). 

I've found that keeping capital costs as they are and increasing efficiency by 10% will make solar very worthwhile. I don't dismiss it, I just don't think we're ready. Besides, wind and solar shouldn't make up for more than 20% of supply. Nuclear and deep well geothermal should be dominant if we're going to cut carbon dependence. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

5 hours ago, NickW said:

I think you will find those 'rare minerals' are not so rare and can  found in the west. So far there hasn't been the incentive to mine them. Now there is prospectors are looking over old core drill data. 

Example - Cornwall (UK) has plenty of Lithium. 

California has so much it harms the bird population. 

[BradleyPNW + 282]

16 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Those minerals  for mining are iron ore for tools.... World will literally never run out of iron ore.  Now you can argue for catalysts, but still need same catalysts if you go all electrical route. 

I'm just saying, pretending we are getting away from a resource mining problem going renewables is an epic joke. 

Ok, solar panels are made with silica. Are we going to run out of sand?