So the President is on that Hydroxy

[0R0 + 6,251]

6 hours ago, Jim Profit said:

If you are statisfied with that kind of "evidence", that means you aren't looking for evidence, rather for confirmation of a preformed belief..

That's more how evidence looks like:

Baseline use of hydroxychloroquine in systemic lupus erythematosus does not preclude SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe COVID-19
https://ard.bmj.com/content/early/2020/05/07/annrheumdis-2020-217690

Outcomes of Hydroxychloroquine Treatment Among Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients in the United States- Real-World Evidence From a Federated Electronic Medical Record Network
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.12.20099028v1

 

This is again a useless study in that the patients in dire straits are the treatment group and the "controls" are those who aren't.

Even for an observational retrospective analysis, it is not good enough. Though they do claim to have made an attempt to compare populations of similar ages and comorbidities but I hadn't found a control for condition, which appeared to be a major reason for attempting HCQ/Z.

This tweet pretty much sums it up

Sonny Masterson @sunmaster14

Replying to @GaetanBurgio

Once again, these retrospective studies of already seriously ill patients are of limited use. I'll note, however, the study robustly showed HCQ + Z didn't hurt. That should probably be the most important takeaway for those who claim that HCQ is dangerous.

8:54 AM · May 19, 2020·Twitter Web App

You need to look at it from the other side. Trials are being done on a protocol that has already been improved upon by doctors outside of hospitals. There is still an effort ongoing in optimizing doses. The current practice is HCQ 800+400 +Azi + Zn supplements No trials are ongoing.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

With Covid-19, by the time a patient is considered "late stage", tragically, they are suffering from multi-organ attacks and subsequent agonizing failure.  It is, apparently, an excruciating death.  Once this thing is embedded, it attacks everything.  There will be no drug, none, that will be able to save late stage patients because you cannot inject a drug to stop the failure of nearly every organ in the body simultaneously.  Perhaps the old standby morphine could ease the pain.

I am sorry for the graphic description.  It does not humor me in the least.

Please stop bringing studies to the forum that have drug tests carried out on late stage patients.

[Jim Profit + 46]

37 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

The only "legitimate" trials were the original ones from Dr. Raoult's group.

The fact you are agreeing with their conclusions don't make studies co-signed by Raoult legitimate.
Did you have a critical look at their latest studies, which is supposed to prove that the treatment by HCQ+AZ is effective.

I did, using information avaliable in the published study as well as in the two document earlier shared by Raoult on his Twitter account..
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302179
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Abstract_Raoult_EarlyTrtCovid19_09042020_vD1v.pdf
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Table_final_website_IHU_09_04_2020.pdf

They tested 38617 persons, found 3165 positive cases.
They selected 1061 patients amongst them, inclusion criiteria not given
95% of them had no symptom or a few symptoms (NEWS <= 4)

Major comorbidites of COVID-19 are massively underrepresented.

Hypertension => 14% vs 30 % in the french population
Cardio-vascular diseases => They included none, because of contraindications (HCQ + AZ being both cardiotoxics)
5.8 % of obese patients vs at least 15% in the french population

So with this facts in mind what should we expect about mortality ?
Given the favorable composition we would expect a CFR that is lower that the letality of COVID-19..

This lethality is estimated to be between 0.5% and 0.8%, someone here even gave numbers as low as 0.35 %
As of the 28th april, 10 out of 1061 patients died, the study mortality is 0.94 %
(it has doubled sinced when they first bragged about their results, as they didn't give them enough time to die)

How do you conclude from this study that HCQ + AZ is an effective treatment against COVID-19 ? Tell me I'm curious..

[Jim Profit + 46]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Jeez, you are deliberately and obstinately obtuse.

CDC says it is safe for adults, children, pregnant women and nursing mothers.

Oh.. I wonder what the people related to the 10344 serious cases, 223 deaths linked to Plaquenil than were reported to the FDA think of your argument.

Regarding adverse effects of medications, the FDA is the auhtoritative agency..
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safety-and-availability/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or

I don't either think that the manufacturer of Plaquenil is BSing in their monograph..
http://products.sanofi.ca/en/plaquenil.pdf

Denialism is strong with you.

Opposing a meme and a flyer to the available DATA from the FDA and the ANMS, the warnings of the FDA, the monograph..🤦‍♂️

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
 

[Jim Profit + 46]

This is from the same flyer you provided.
https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/resources/pdf/fsp/drugs/hydroxychloroquine.pdf

One weekly dosage is 400 mg
For the Raoult protocol daily dosage is 400 mg
7 times more !

Do you think that safety at one dosage imply that you can take seven times more of the drug and still have no problem?
(hint: don't try this at home)
 

 

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

6 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

HydroxyChloroquine destroys fear.

HydroxyChloroquine destroys mail-in voting.

HydroxyChloroquine destroys Democrats’ election hopes.

HydroxyChloroquine opens the US economy.

The coordinated attacks by the MSM \ Democrats on HydroxyChloroquine gives you all you need.  

HCQ is liberal Kryronite.

 

Well said.

Those with myopia to the powerful vested interests which try to control the narrative will never understand.  The corruption is so deep, no drilling rig could ever reach the bottom of it all.

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

1 hour ago, Jim Profit said:

This is from the same flyer you provided.
https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/resources/pdf/fsp/drugs/hydroxychloroquine.pdf

Do you trust the CDC?

Do you trust the FDA?

Do you trust the EPA?

Jim, you need to look at their history of corruption.

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

Bottom line...

Jim Profit can decide for himself what he wants to do for his health.  But Jim Profit has no right (and NO ON DOES) to dictate mandates to others what they should do about their health.

 

[Jim Profit + 46]

1 hour ago, Tom Nolan said:

Bottom line...

Jim Profit can decide for himself what he wants to do for his health.  But Jim Profit has no right (and NO ON DOES) to dictate mandates to others what they should do about their health.

 

You seem confused.

As far as I'm concerned people can dispose of their body, that includes drugs, suicide and abortion.
As long as they don't endanger other people, that is..(zygotes aren't living beings)
There should be no freedom for poisoning children with bleach even by their parents.

You are just pulling a strawman on me. Weak.

[Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas + 96]

Ex-Russian «troll» reveals the goal «to set Americans against their own government»

 

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

Some folks prefer blue pills.

 

[UNC12345 + 171]

13 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I’ll give you that he is not lying, but his tunnel vision and ultra conservative opinion is driving issues which he apparently does not understand, nor can he see the consequences of.

It is my opinion that the good doctor is thinking ‘worst case’ and hyping models which highlight that case. The models have recently been shown to be defective and are not mirroring the events on the ground. The Covid-19 issue is much more than a medical issue at this point, it is seriously effecting our society and economy.

The governors and politicians in many states appear to be in ‘cover their ass’ mode and will adopt ANY plan to combat this virus simply so there is no blowback on them later and they can claim that they did EVERYTHING they could....even if that ignores the Constitution or the Bill of Rights!

I do not expect non-Americans to fully understand the seriousness which Americans place on their freedoms, but to ignore this issue, in the States, is a very slippery slope.

A very poor analogy would be to ban alcohol in an effort to curb drunk driving. You can see something similar during Prohibition.

I appreciate that post, it does explain a lot.  I guess this was my point - he's not lying and use of this term (way too often on here) is simply wrong.

As for the seriousness that American's place on their freedoms, it becomes clear to me every day when I read various forums on here.  I do understand.  

[Jim Profit + 46]

1 hour ago, Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas said:

Ex-Russian «troll» reveals the goal «to set Americans against their own government»

Very interesting video.. 

And COVID-19 is a perfect theme to sow division.. "Look! There is a safe and efficient treatment against COVID-19 but your government and the scientists (bad scientists!) they want to deprive you of that ! Covid is a hoax ! Bill gates/soros/who/enginereed virus/etc.."

"Russia deploying coronavirus disinformation to sow panic in West, EU document says"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-disinformation/russia-deploying-coronavirus-disinformation-to-sow-panic-in-west-eu-document-says-idUSKBN21518F

"The epidemiology of misinformation"
"The disturbing story of how the web is weaving weird connections between hippies, Nazis, Russian agents and the rest of us to spread lies about Covid-19"

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/science-and-technology/epidemiology-misinformation-coronavirus-covid19-conspiracy-theory

Many accounts created recently on Twitter (and even here) to promote quakery, put up american people against their governement (incl. FDA, CDC, EPA), the scientific community, the WHO..

And US isn't the only target, Russia finance the extremists and use paid trolls to foment trouble in Europe to put up people against their government and the EU. Anything to weaken Europe..

We know for years that they did the same with vaccines... ("Your government is trying to poison you !")

Sadly they seem very successful...

Sadly many people are so  polarized they'll accept any information as long as it conforms with their vision.
We should be always sceptic.

Question: Could they even be targeting public forums like this one ?

[Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas + 96]

26 minutes ago, Jim Profit said:

Very interesting video.. 

And COVID-19 is a perfect theme to sow division.. "Look! There is a safe and efficient treatment against COVID-19 but your government and the scientists (bad scientists!) they want to deprive you of that ! Covid is a hoax ! Bill gates/soros/who/enginereed virus/etc.."

https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA?t=50

[El Gato + 251]

15 hours ago, UNC12345 said:

You might think he's wrong, you might think he has caused a mass overreaction, and you might just plain disagree with him, but do you really think Dr. Fauci is lying?  I just don't see why a man of his age and background would do so.

He is in CYA mode, He's been a civil servant for over 20 years and not actually practiced medicine in that time, and is trying to cement his legacy on a high note, or a least not go out on a bad note. So not exactly lying. He actually said in February that the virus was nothing to worry about and the the numbers would reflect about the same as normal flu casualties. Some one got to him since then or enlightened him? who knows?

[Jim Profit + 46]

19 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

The governors and politicians in many states appear to be in ‘cover their ass’ mode and will adopt ANY plan to combat this virus simply so there is no blowback on them later and they can claim that they did EVERYTHING they could....even if that ignores the Constitution or the Bill of Rights!

Yes I can understand them for doing that. Is it worse of better than Georgia governor misleading georgians ?

"Gov. Brian Kemp’s office issued an apology after a Georgia Public Health Department chart wrongly reported a downward trend in #coronavirus cases. The error was at least the third in as many weeks."
https://twitter.com/ajc/status/1262012536968396801

Look at how the date were judisciously arranged ...

Edited May 20, 2020 by Jim Profit

[BradleyPNW + 282]

If Trump cultists listen to Donald's words without seeing his face will it help them snap out of their alternate universe where Donald is the smart guy and the medical experts with decades of experience are the dumb guys? 
 

 

[Jim Profit + 46]

53 minutes ago, Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas said:

https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA?t=50

Yes I know that one.. Still send chills down my spine.
I'm still surprised how fast things changed, how fast America turned its back against Europe and NATO while becoming submissive to Russia.. Isn't the USA the only NATO member who invoked article 5 (for Afghanistan)
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

This is so sad.. We may think that Russia has finally won without firing a bullet..

I know the majority of American doesn't share these anti-Europe views. Hopefully at some point the minority actually in power won't be able stay, even with all the voter suppression and cheating they do..

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

18 hours ago, Tom Nolan said:

Thousands of Doctors who study the literature know the mechanisms of why Hydroxychloroquine is effective.  The Medical Mafia (Big Pharma, FDA, CDC, AMA, Pharmacy Administration) is doing all they can to suppress this information.  I hear the reports from Doctors who are prescribing Hydroxychloroquine. 

Why would the media, Big Pharma, and government agencies suppress a simple inexpensive method of boosting a person's immune response to Covid-19?  If one can not answer that question correctly, then they are already pretty brainwashed and will likely never recover their common sense..

 

Mechanism of Action

 

Hydroxychloroquine helps Zinc enter the cell.   Hydroxychloroquine acts as an Ionophore for Zinc.    Zinc inhibits the replication of viruses.    Quercetin (a natural substance found in onions and apples) also acts as an ionophore for zinc.  You can buy Quercetin as a supplement, but it helps to take Bromelain, a digestive enzyme found in pineapples, for better absorption.   

 

Ionophore – definition – A substance which is able to transport particular ions across a lipid membrane in a cell.

 

 

Dr Vladimir Zelenko describes treating over 900 patients for the coronavirus in the New York City area with Hydroxychloroquine.  Article:  https://techstartups.com/2020/04/05/new-updates-dr-vladimir-zelenko-cocktail-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-sulfate-azithromycin-showing-phenomenon-results-900-coronavirus-patients-treated-must-watch-video/

 

Chloroquine and Natural Solutions for Coronavirus   http://drdahlman.com/chloroquine-and-natural-solutions-for-coronavirus/

 

March 16, 2020  MERCOLA.COM  Quercetin and Vitamin D — Allies Against Coronavirus?  https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/03/16/quercetin-vitamin-d-coronavirus-prevention.aspx Mercola goes into great detail about QUERCETIN and cites the literature… the SARS epidemic…Ebola… U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) funding the anti-viral studies.

 

Los Angeles Doctor, Dr. Anthony Cardillo speaks of potential benefits of Hydroxychloroquine combined with Zinc.  https://www.zerohedge.com/health/while-left-continues-pan-trump-touted-treatment-another-doctor-reports-dramatic-improvement  

 

Modern Medicine Knew Of Zinc Cure For Coronavirus Infections A Decade Ago But Failed To Put Into Practice   (well written article covering a lot of information with sources)  https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/bill-sardi/modern-medicine-knew-of-zinc-cure-for-coronavirus-infections-a-decade-ago-but-failed-to-put-into-practice/

 

By the way, Dr Robert Rowen and Dr. Mercola discuss the hydroxychloroquine and shed light on it.  Also, they go over Vitamin C IV Therapy along with other therapies like Ozone blood therapy.  https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/04/05/ozone-therapy.aspx?cid_source=prnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20200405Z1&et_cid=DM501478&et_rid=844415321

Please stop copy-pasting this unscientific BS. The very expression "boosting immune system" betrays the fact that you do not understand how immune system works. It's not a car engine, it cannot be "boosted". Hydrochloroquine is a specific drug with a specific effects. Numerous studies have confirmed now it provides no benefit for COVID 19 patients. 

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

The Trump cult is seriously the scariest development of the recent history. It was bad under Bush, when republisheep repeated after their slightly demented leader that "we have to invade Iraq, because it's responsible for 9/11" - it was not, it was the work of US good friends Saudis, long before they started chopping up investigative journalist and dancing the Sabre Dance with the US administration. But there were rays of critical reasoning here and there. 

But today, any blatant stupidity Trump spits out (he does not really think much, he just randomly throws them out), the whole cult comes and starts to mindlessly parrot it - hydrochloroquine, bad China, bad WHO, bad Obama, bad universal healthcare, bleach injection, every single blatant stupidity gets vigorously defended by the mindless T-cult crowd. 

As Paul Krugman writes in his book "Arguing with zombies", ideas that should not hold in an educated and civilized society are impossible to refute in the current American public debate. Facts are ignored, the highest representative of the state lies on camera every day, again and again, and those are not subtle, clever lies, those are stupid, obvious, blatant lies a not very clever child would use, and the nation is till powerless to remove him from the office. Horrendous. 

[BradleyPNW + 282]

35 minutes ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

The Trump cult is seriously the scariest development of the recent history. It was bad under Bush, when republisheep repeated after their slightly demented leader that "we have to invade Iraq, because it's responsible for 9/11" - it was not, it was the work of US good friends Saudis, long before they started chopping up investigative journalist and dancing the Sabre Dance with the US administration. But there were rays of critical reasoning here and there. 

But today, any blatant stupidity Trump spits out (he does not really think much, he just randomly throws them out), the whole cult comes and starts to mindlessly parrot it - hydrochloroquine, bad China, bad WHO, bad Obama, bad universal healthcare, bleach injection, every single blatant stupidity gets vigorously defended by the mindless T-cult crowd. 

As Paul Krugman writes in his book "Arguing with zombies", ideas that should not hold in an educated and civilized society are impossible to refute in the current American public debate. Facts are ignored, the highest representative of the state lies on camera every day, again and again, and those are not subtle, clever lies, those are stupid, obvious, blatant lies a not very clever child would use, and the nation is till powerless to remove him from the office. Horrendous. 

I still support the Iraq invasion. Saddam and his kids needed to be scimitared and feathered. Also, at that time I think oil experts were predicting peak oil supply and $300/bbl oil while China's economy was growing like mad. 

Everything changed with US shale oil. I feel like we judge the Iraq invasion with 20/20 hindsight as though they should have known the US would be awash in natural gas and petroleum. From what was known at the time and place, I would have invaded Iraq, too. By invading Iraq in 2003 we injected military presence and influence in the region which would have prevented China from moving in. China is moving in now, but it doesn't really matter now like it would have if oil was in short supply. 

After the USA developed shale oil Obama made the smart move by cutting the Iran nuclear deal (JCPOA.) How can I possibly support George Bush's 2003 Iraq invasion on one hand and Obama's 2015 nuclear peace deal on the other? Circumstances changed. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by BradleyPNW

[SUZNV + 1,197]

1 hour ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Please stop copy-pasting this unscientific BS. The very expression "boosting immune system" betrays the fact that you do not understand how immune system works. It's not a car engine, it cannot be "boosted". Hydrochloroquine is a specific drug with a specific effects. Numerous studies have confirmed now it provides no benefit for COVID 19 patients. 

 

The Trump cult is seriously the scariest development of the recent history. It was bad under Bush, when republisheep repeated after their slightly demented leader that "we have to invade Iraq, because it's responsible for 9/11" - it was not, it was the work of US good friends Saudis, long before they started chopping up investigative journalist and dancing the Sabre Dance with the US administration. But there were rays of critical reasoning here and there. 

But today, any blatant stupidity Trump spits out (he does not really think much, he just randomly throws them out), the whole cult comes and starts to mindlessly parrot it - hydrochloroquine, bad China, bad WHO, bad Obama, bad universal healthcare, bleach injection, every single blatant stupidity gets vigorously defended by the mindless T-cult crowd. 

As Paul Krugman writes in his book "Arguing with zombies", ideas that should not hold in an educated and civilized society are impossible to refute in the current American public debate. Facts are ignored, the highest representative of the state lies on camera every day, again and again, and those are not subtle, clever lies, those are stupid, obvious, blatant lies a not very clever child would use, and the nation is till powerless to remove him from the office. Horrendous. 

Please, any educated scientist will have to know there are different kinds of researches, all from the scientists with a real degree. Not from media degrees. Take a look at Covid19 researches, my observation is:

1 Support: hydrochloroquine + zinc:

Mechanisms in theory researches and trials researches.

Motivation: save lives the cheapest available way in desperate situations. Didn't oppose new tests or vaccine or new medicine researches.

2 Opposing hydrochloroquine + zinc":

Trails researches only, no anti mechanisms explain why it is not working. And with Trial researches to prove it is not working, there are many ways to do it than trail researches to prove it is working (which is harder). These ways can be:

-Just don't use with zinc, pure hydrochloroquine.

-Poisonous level of hydrochloroquine. Any chemical with high dose will kill you. Especially hydrochloroquine for fish tanks.

- Wrong combinations.

Motivations: tests, vaccine and a new special medicine for each new type of corona virus and a close down economy.  Heavily focus on spending money to researches that number 1 is not working or "no strong evidence".

International Observations: The countries with the top number of deaths are in developed countries, the same of deaths per millions. So how do people who are severely contracted Covid19 in poor countries with no tests no ventilation survive? Any cheap medicines available that works.

Many researches your think "unscientific BS" coming from real scientists with real sciences degrees with medical experiences, not from someone learn science from media.  With media they even have "political science".  Which research stated that " hydrochloroquine + zinc" doesn't work? Most of them nowadays say "may work". It will not work with hydrochloroquine alone, off course so please don't send me link with hydrochloroquine without zinc.

And why do you really care about it while it has been used widely in many states and worldwide? Do anyone have to ask media permission? Why should people fake its effects for a cheap medicine? Are the world all under Trump Cult now?

Note:  the word "boosting immune system" are widely use in supplements corporations , sometimes always have the "tested in the lab". Are they not from the countless scientists researches you are talking about?

I respect any Nobel price in sciences. But not Peace or Economics Politics, because they are all on theories and assume very ideally condition modeling which can never prove under  events driven world condition, otherwise he may be a billionaire already and have no time for economics paper or columnist or teaching. So no I don't take Paul Krugman word as bible and preach for others. 

Case study about Noble price: The Nobel Committee regrets Nobel Price handed to Obama, in 2015, few years before the Trump cult started.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34277960

He ended his term in 2016 with more bombs

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy

Just consider this is from a Trump cult zombie. I couldn't care less but I tried really hard to post as an educated zombie although English is not my first language . You can check what I wrote for plagiarism. Are you sure you are not a zombie from a different cult?

Edited May 20, 2020 by SUZNV

[0R0 + 6,251]

8 hours ago, Jim Profit said:

The fact you are agreeing with their conclusions don't make studies co-signed by Raoult legitimate.
Did you have a critical look at their latest studies, which is supposed to prove that the treatment by HCQ+AZ is effective.

I did, using information avaliable in the published study as well as in the two document earlier shared by Raoult on his Twitter account..
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1477893920302179
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Abstract_Raoult_EarlyTrtCovid19_09042020_vD1v.pdf
https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Table_final_website_IHU_09_04_2020.pdf

They tested 38617 persons, found 3165 positive cases.
They selected 1061 patients amongst them, inclusion criiteria not given
95% of them had no symptom or a few symptoms (NEWS <= 4)

Major comorbidites of COVID-19 are massively underrepresented.

Hypertension => 14% vs 30 % in the french population
Cardio-vascular diseases => They included none, because of contraindications (HCQ + AZ being both cardiotoxics)
5.8 % of obese patients vs at least 15% in the french population

So with this facts in mind what should we expect about mortality ?
Given the favorable composition we would expect a CFR that is lower that the letality of COVID-19..

This lethality is estimated to be between 0.5% and 0.8%, someone here even gave numbers as low as 0.35 %
As of the 28th april, 10 out of 1061 patients died, the study mortality is 0.94 %
(it has doubled sinced when they first bragged about their results, as they didn't give them enough time to die)

How do you conclude from this study that HCQ + AZ is an effective treatment against COVID-19 ? Tell me I'm curious..

You are entirely missing the point of medical trial vs. scientific trial. Dr. Raoult was not looking for effects on mortality or intubations and hospitalizations.He was looking to see what happens to viral populations with the treatment. It was a smashing success in getting 1-2 weeks shaved off remission times. The effects on intubations or mortality rates were too low to have a statistical significance.

As mentioned countless times, the virus does not directly kill people. It is ARDS due to the immune system producing a cytokine storm in reaction to the virus. Secondarily it is blood clots caused by inflammatory immune responses. Finally, it is hemoglobin destruction by the virus which is the most direct effect of the virus.

The medical community, particularly the regulatory side are looking to be handed a solution nicely packaged with an FDA label so that even a phone app could do the doctor's job. This treatment requires adjustment by the practitioner to match with patients, add zinc as many practitioners have, and that should, from the microbiological and physiological perspective eliminate the progression of the disease on the part of the virus' contribution to it. Which is not the fatal one. The point at which you get the cytokine storm varies very substantially among individuals. Thus only early removal of the virus is effective with this kind of treatment, or with Remdesivir.

Giving HCQ/z+z for late stage disease - i.e. past the cytokine storm, is not particularly smart if you are not suppressing the inflammatory response and rebuilding hemoglobin levels, where HCQ is a minor player is well outside its theraputic potential as a potential cure. Though one tightly organized blind study did manage to show a halving of mortality.

Remember that the average death with the virus test coming positive is accompanied by 2 comorbidity factors. Hardly anyone dies from the virus alone. .

 

The statistical indications you are looking for with the application of HCQ/z+z would require a huge lot of positive testing patients, of whoch we know 99% or more would recover regardless of treatment. So in order to get a large enough sample to make a judgement about the effects on hospitalization and morbidities outcomes you need upwards of 10k sample population and an appropriate control.

When treating heart arhythmia patients, you can't use azythromycin at all, you can use doxycyclin instead. You would need to have a smaller population to test that one, 1-2k would be enough as this is a high risk population for high mortalities.

 

I suggest you accept the cognitive dissonance of the situation and live with it. Judge the trials in context of the science, not the medicine. I.e. the path and process rather than start and end points alone.

 

In his clinical practice, Dr Raoult applied his scientific findings as to the progression and process of the disease and obtained good results. He found it unethical to play with patient's lives in order to satisfy FDA like dots over "i" and crossed "t". Do the best you can with what you have. Obviously, there will be a point where Dr. Raoult's institute will have treated a sufficient number of patients of all stages and commorbidities to provide a large enough pool of outcomes with mortality and intubation stats that mean something. Each box by patient condition and commorbidity needs 1k samples and up. So perhaps when Dr. Raoult's clinic reaches 20k patients treated he can produce a general study that the medical establishment would accept. In the interim, the kind of intellectual disease you are displaying is deadly to patients.

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

The Trump cult is seriously the scariest development of the recent history. It was bad under Bush, when republisheep repeated after their slightly demented leader that "we have to invade Iraq, because it's responsible for 9/11" - it was not, it was the work of US good friends Saudis, long before they started chopping up investigative journalist and dancing the Sabre Dance with the US administration. But there were rays of critical reasoning here and there. 

But today, any blatant stupidity Trump spits out (he does not really think much, he just randomly throws them out), the whole cult comes and starts to mindlessly parrot it - hydrochloroquine, bad China, bad WHO, bad Obama, bad universal healthcare, bleach injection, every single blatant stupidity gets vigorously defended by the mindless T-cult crowd. 

As Paul Krugman writes in his book "Arguing with zombies", ideas that should not hold in an educated and civilized society are impossible to refute in the current American public debate. Facts are ignored, the highest representative of the state lies on camera every day, again and again, and those are not subtle, clever lies, those are stupid, obvious, blatant lies a not very clever child would use, and the nation is till powerless to remove him from the office. Horrendous. 

Krugman is among the most failed economists ever. His predictions have little reflection in the realities that follow. I read him for his analysis about deflationary effects. But he is a one trick pony. The world is more complex than that.

I find the China Worshiping, UN equals morals, socialist crowd as the intellectual diseases of the 20th century dragged into the 21st. They need to be chopped off and their proponents dislodged from politics and academia. Their clutching at straws when being beaten by someone who rejects the entirety of their view of the world from it roots up to the branches and leaves - and winning a large support group and the biggest election spells the end of their ideological hegemony. That is why you and other international socialists are so hysterical about Trump. If the CCP are your "friends" and allies, or you find yourself pushing the CCP promoted narratives, then it is you who are out of your minds and obviously wrong. 

You suffer from a cognitive and emotional disturbance Trumpists call Trump Derangement Syndrome. The more you succumb to it and spew derogatory terms like "zombies" at Trump supporters, the more energized and active they are. And the more deranged and detached from reality your group appear to them and to independents.

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1 hour ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Please stop copy-pasting this unscientific BS. The very expression "boosting immune system" betrays the fact that you do not understand how immune system works. It's not a car engine, it cannot be "boosted". Hydrochloroquine is a specific drug with a specific effects. Numerous studies have confirmed now it provides no benefit for COVID 19 patients. 

Immune reaction can be boosted. Indeed, I would have been dead if I didn't manage to do just that.

The science is there. Just that the pharmacopia is not synthetic chemicals, aka "patent medicines".

You can continue worshiping at the altar of $100k treatments and drugs that are "proven". Or you can read the science and clinical reporting from practitioners who are guided by facts and experience rather than "authority" and "approvals"..