Chicago Threatens To Condemn - Possibly Demolish - Churches Defying Lockdown

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Chicago is shredding the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

This isn't about the virus, it's about power and control and far left Socialist agendas.

To those fervently hoping the China Flu panic shutdowns continue, I hope you wake up eventually.  But you probably won't.

No I'm not going to copy & paste the article text this time; read the link.

Chicago Threatens To Condemn - Possibly Demolish Churches Defying Lockdown

 

[waltz + 140]

Tom Tom Tom, whom ever  that guy was with his pewter mugs and candles on the mantel, can not even pronounce the name of the state properly, this has not been threatened.  I live in “Crook county”, we have an exceptional amount of problems (the budget and shootings among others, check the numbers for this weekend).  No church will be demolished, where would the money come from?  I vote Libertarian, so decidedly not a leftist, but this is just pure scaremongering.
 

Added, am going to go watch part two of the Grant production on the History channel, mainstream media.  Hope you had a great time at the cookout.

waltz

Edited May 27, 2020 by waltz

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

8 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Chicago is shredding the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

This isn't about the virus, it's about power and control and far left Socialist agendas.

To those fervently hoping the China Flu panic shutdowns continue, I hope you wake up eventually.  But you probably won't.

No I'm not going to copy & paste the article text this time; read the link.

Chicago Threatens To Condemn - Possibly Demolish Churches Defying Lockdown

 

It is not "China flu" even trump recognizes it is not influenza.  Adding "China" just shows your hate for them, fine, but understand that the USA is leading the world with this infection...

 

I have no problem with church, just practice distancing.  So about 3 people per pew and only every other pew filled. No abandoning science and praying for a miracle.

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

 

P.S. The bible says you do not need church to pray.

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Waltz Waltz Waltz you haven't been paying attention in your own city.

Chicago Mayor Lightfoot Defies President Trump — Sends Armed Police Squad to Shut Down Black Baptist Church in Southside Chicago

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

4 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Waltz Waltz Waltz you haven't been paying attention in your own city.

Chicago Mayor Lightfoot Defies President Trump — Sends Armed Police Squad to Shut Down Black Baptist Church in Southside Chicago

 

"Armed police" as compared to what unarmed police?  Sensationalism.

Were they breaking the law?  Yes. Police enforce laws.

Trump can say whatever he wants - only with you does it automatically become gospel. His power has limits.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 minute ago, Enthalpic said:

P.S. The bible says you do not need church to pray.

Please do take note that I have little use for organized religion of any flavor, be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc. 

But people should be free to believe (or not believe) whatever the heck they want, provided they don't hurt others, or try to force their beliefs down the throats of others.

It's the principle - Chicago government should not be shutting down churches.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 minute ago, Tom Kirkman said:

It's the principle - Chicago government should not be shutting down churches.

It makes it sound like they are satanic or something... they are not picking on churches; they shut down most everything I imagine. 

It's only church goers who are, ironically, not following the law which is a sin.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Just now, Enthalpic said:

Were they breaking the law?  Yes. Police enforce laws.

NO. Absolutely NOT.

The Church was NOT "breaking the law."

An executive order is not a law.

The U.S. Constitution and Bill of Right protects Freedom of Religion.  

Chicago is shredding the Bill of Rights.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

2 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

It's only church goers who are, ironically, not following the law which is a sin.

You are being obtuse.  It's not a law, it's an executive order.

And now you are saying that going to church is a sin.

Piss off.  I'm done with you for tonight.  You are too far gone to be reasoned with.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

25 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

You are being obtuse.  It's not a law, it's an executive order.

And now you are saying that going to church is a sin.

Piss off.  I'm done with you for tonight.  You are too far gone to be reasoned with.

Not following the orders of government is a sin.  Look it up

Even Jesus didn't always like what churches were doing and turned over vendor tables or something like that.

 

Nobody is stopping freedom of religion.  They are temporarily suspending freedom of congregation.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Enthalpic

[UNC12345 + 171]

Could it be this simple?  City is worried about the continued spread of the virus. Churches have an older demographic (prime target of said virus), they cram people together, then they sing joyously to spread the virus even further.  Police move in to stop groups who are needlessly endangering the health of others by possibly spreading the virus.  They are concerned about the community at large.  

Why does everything have to be a giant left wing plot/conspiracy to kill everyone's rights?

[waltz + 140]

7 minutes ago, UNC12345 said:

Could it be this simple?  City is worried about the continued spread of the virus. Churches have an older demographic (prime target of said virus), they cram people together, then they sing joyously to spread the virus even further.  Police move in to stop groups who are needlessly endangering the health of others by possibly spreading the virus.  They are concerned about the community at large.  

Why does everything have to be a giant left wing plot/conspiracy to kill everyone's rights?

https://quillette.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-superspreader-events-in-28-countries-critical-patterns-and-lessons/

 

link pulled from a thread last night.

[waltz + 140]

Tom, if you look at the infection rates locally you my determine this is not a terrible decision, affront upon one’s rights, probably.  I freely walk around my neighborhood, without a mask, for as much as six miles a day.  I do not live in a high infection rate area, some idiots may even be smart enough to use the term “white privilege”, more that I am single.  
If you want to go all Hobbes/Locke or negative/positive freedom I will be your Huckleberry but I would guess we come down on the same side a majority of the time. 
Early on I sided with better safe than sorry (give science some time).  Full opening, I am not there but I also get to opt out.  BTW, I have gone to work everyday since the first week “our” voluntary isolation began and that is exactly what it has been locally.

waltz

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

It is not "China flu" even trump recognizes it is not influenza.  Adding "China" just shows your hate for them, fine, but understand that the USA is leading the world with this infection...

 

I have no problem with church, just practice distancing.  So about 3 people per pew and only every other pew filled. No abandoning science and praying for a miracle.

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

 

P.S. The bible says you do not need church to pray.

 

So are you going to be the one selecting which 3 people get to sit in the pew?

Doesn’t the Bible promote fellowship?

The US leading the world....🤔

I find it interesting that although the virus began in Wuhan and roughly 1/2 million people passed through Wuhan before it was locked down, that the Chinese center of government (Beijing) and dinance (Shanghai) emerged essentially unscathed. 

Perhaps the reporting is simply inaccurate.
 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So are you going to be the one selecting which 3 people get to sit in the pew?

Doesn’t the Bible promote fellowship?

The US leading the world....🤔

I find it interesting that although the virus began in Wuhan and roughly 1/2 million people passed through Wuhan before it was locked down, that the Chinese center of government (Beijing) and dinance (Shanghai) emerged essentially unscathed. 

Perhaps the reporting is simply inaccurate.
 

Almost certainly. I mentioned in another thread that there are pressures to under report covid infection rates for political and economic reasons.

China is certainly under reporting to make themselves look better.

Under reporting also makes it easier for economies to justify full reopening. Trump will want the reopening as fast as possible so the financial numbers will, hopefully, look better before election time.

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

...and over-reporting by hospitals, local and state governments, or health agencies, guarantees more federal funding.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, waltz said:

Tom Tom Tom, whom ever  that guy was with his pewter mugs and candles on the mantel, can not even pronounce the name of the state properly, this has not been threatened.  I live in “Crook county”, we have an exceptional amount of problems (the budget and shootings among others, check the numbers for this weekend).  No church will be demolished, where would the money come from?  I vote Libertarian, so decidedly not a leftist, but this is just pure scaremongering.
 

Added, am going to go watch part two of the Grant production on the History channel, mainstream media.  Hope you had a great time at the cookout.

waltz

So waltz, you think it is perfectly OK to intimidate churches, temples, mosques, covens etc. even though the intimidation is unconstitutional. That does not sound like a libertarian stance to me. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

"Armed police" as compared to what unarmed police?  Sensationalism.

Were they breaking the law?  Yes. Police enforce laws.

Trump can say whatever he wants - only with you does it automatically become gospel. His power has limits.

So does Lightfoots and Pritzkers. The American Constitution is the law. Who is trying to uphold it? Who is trying to ignore it?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

It makes it sound like they are satanic or something... they are not picking on churches; they shut down most everything I imagine. 

It's only church goers who are, ironically, not following the law which is a sin.

Is it a law or is it an ill-advised order?

So black folks should not have ignored the Jim Crow Laws years ago?

You must be a sheep who blindly follows whatever you are told to do.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

It makes it sound like they are satanic or something... they are not picking on churches; they shut down most everything I imagine. 

It's only church goers who are, ironically, not following the law which is a sin.

We are supposed to follow the law of the land but we are following the American Constitution rather than unconstitutional municipal law. Each church will make its own decision. 

[notsonice + 1,068]

The cease and desist order states......future violations could result in a church being ‘declared a public health nuisance’ and potentially closed. Nowhere does it state ............Threatens To Condemn - Possibly Demolish. Another fearmongering blog brought to you by the trolls that love to fearmonger.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, UNC12345 said:

Could it be this simple?  City is worried about the continued spread of the virus. Churches have an older demographic (prime target of said virus), they cram people together, then they sing joyously to spread the virus even further.  Police move in to stop groups who are needlessly endangering the health of others by possibly spreading the virus.  They are concerned about the community at large.  

Why does everything have to be a giant left wing plot/conspiracy to kill everyone's rights?

Because of our constitutional rights. They are not to be infringed and yet are in many ways. We make stand when we think it is important enough to fight the governmental entities that are interfering with our rights. 

I own property. What do I do if the government taxes it unfairly and I cannot pay the taxes? Who owns it then? This is an actual problem in Illinois due to the way that politicians have bought the vote of government employees through granting them high pay and high benefits and retirements that are not affordable in the long run. Legally we have to pay the taxes. Will everyone abandon their property willingly? I don't think so. 

If you ask Governor Pritzker he will tell you that the federal government must bail out Illinois. These problems will be popping up all over the country. The people must put up a fight. A political and legal fight. If the people lose those fights then other fights will come. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

13 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

You must be a sheep who blindly follows whatever you are told to do.

Haha no, I break plenty of silly laws (misdemeanours).

My fiance won't even speed!

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

13 minutes ago, notsonice said:

The cease and desist order states......future violations could result in a church being ‘declared a public health nuisance’ and potentially closed. Nowhere does it state ............Threatens To Condemn - Possibly Demolish. Another fearmongering blog brought to you by the trolls that love to fearmonger.

“Well, now, out of the Windbag City and Chicago Sun Times comes this. Houses of worship that defy Chicago shutdowns will be shut, and could be demolished.”

Second paragraph of attached article.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

"Separation of church and state" is a legal principle in the United States, which is related to, but not found within, the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, in the Bill of Rights. The First Amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."