Model 3 cheaper to buy than BMW 3 series.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

Tesla Model 3 now starts at $37,990. BMW 3 series starts at $40,750.  BEV first undercut the high end. Now they have undercut the mid range. Next up they will undercut the low end of the market. New ICE automobile production will be done by the end of the decade.

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

California new car sales 2019

and Q1 2020

Model 3 was the best selling car in California in Q1

Edited May 29, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[BradleyPNW + 282]

If 0 to 60 is considered performance Teslas are monsters. 3.2 seconds to sixty almost requires a g-suit. Plus you have instant torque everywhere. 

The one drawback is sound. Guys who like fast cars normally like engine sound. They spend big money on aftermarket exhaust to make their cars louder than factory. Hybrid electric car mfgrs (BMW) add engine sound through the audio systems to please those customers. 

Watching electric cars become reality and beat gasoline is really weird. If corporations start driving the majority of miles due to delivery services we could see a very fast switch to electric. Even if everyone still had gas engines in their garages those cars wouldn't travel as many miles. And corporate finance is a lot different than consumer finance. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by BradleyPNW

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Tesla Model 3 now starts at $37,990. BMW 3 series starts at $40,750.  BEV first undercut the high end. Now they have undercut the mid range. Next up they will undercut the low end of the market. New ICE automobile production will be done by the end of the decade.

Another way of saying your ego/luxury market only and not for the Jack/Jills of this world. 

If anyone wants a car new: Buy one at half this cost.  In another country, 1/4 or 1/8th this cost. 

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 minute ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Another way of saying your ego/luxury market only and not for the Jack/Jills of this world. 

If anyone wants a car new: Buy one at half this cost.  In another country, 1/4 or 1/8th this cost. 

 

I said the low end would be next. Note that the Chevy Bolt is the best selling sub-compact.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 hour ago, BradleyPNW said:

If 0 to 60 is considered performance Teslas are monsters. 3.2 seconds to sixty almost requires a g-suit. Plus you have instant torque everywhere. 

The one drawback is sound. Guys who like fast cars normally like engine sound. They spend big money on aftermarket exhaust to make their cars louder than factory. Hybrid electric car mfgrs (BMW) add engine sound through the audio systems to please those customers. 

Watching electric cars become reality and beat gasoline is really weird. If corporations start driving the majority of miles due to delivery services we could see a very fast switch to electric. Even if everyone still had gas engines in their garages those cars wouldn't travel as many miles. And corporate finance is a lot different than consumer finance. 

And the corporate driving will be autonomous of all shapes and sizes.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2020/05/29/demand-for-these-autonomous-delivery-robots-is-skyrocketing-during-this-pandemic/#6f96505c7f3c

[markslawson + 1,042]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Tesla Model 3 now starts at $37,990. BMW 3 series starts at $40,750.

If I had nearly $US38,000 (I assume its US dollars) to drop on a new car then I stump up another $3k and take the BMW 3. It doesn't have the range issues and turning on the heating/air conditioning doesn't limit that range. $US38,000, incidentally, works out to $A57,000 at the present exchange rate and in Australia a Nissan Leaf sells for around $AUS50,000. The Tesla 3 admittedly aims for a different section of the market, but you still don't have the charging points needed to overcome the range issues with these things..   

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

13 minutes ago, markslawson said:

If I had nearly $US38,000 (I assume its US dollars) to drop on a new car then I stump up another $3k and take the BMW 3. It doesn't have the range issues and turning on the heating/air conditioning doesn't limit that range. $US38,000, incidentally, works out to $A57,000 at the present exchange rate and in Australia a Nissan Leaf sells for around $AUS50,000. The Tesla 3 admittedly aims for a different section of the market, but you still don't have the charging points needed to overcome the range issues with these things..   

All the shopping centers around here have EV charging stalls. Yours will too in the near future.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

4 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Another way of saying your ego/luxury market only and not for the Jack/Jills of this world. 

If anyone wants a car new: Buy one at half this cost.  In another country, 1/4 or 1/8th this cost. 

 

Exactly!

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

17 hours ago, markslawson said:

If I had nearly $US38,000 (I assume its US dollars) to drop on a new car then I stump up another $3k and take the BMW 3. It doesn't have the range issues and turning on the heating/air conditioning doesn't limit that range. $US38,000, incidentally, works out to $A57,000 at the present exchange rate and in Australia a Nissan Leaf sells for around $AUS50,000. The Tesla 3 admittedly aims for a different section of the market, but you still don't have the charging points needed to overcome the range issues with these things..   

In the US you can buy a used Leaf like by brother did for $5,000 with less than 15k miles. Now I've got it because he doesn't want it anymore. Since I've got more garages than he does, it's easier to charge for me than for him. At his house he basically needed to park it on the street, inconvenient to charge that way. The other thing about charge is the computer is so stupid, it assumes if you're going up a hill, you'll perpetually be going uphill and adjusts your miles to empty accordingly. Forget the stated "range" for this and the Tesla. I routinely run out of charge (at least according to the guage) at 50% of original. I've taken 6 mile round trips and had the "mileage" drop by 25. I've run it on 0 miles to empty but it's very distracting driving with all the warnings and alarms going off. I can see why people can't wait to dump them. 

My next door neighbor has an M3 and she's got the same issues. She calls it nerve wracking to ever be below 75% charge because distance to empty drops so fast. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

 I can see why people can't wait to dump them. 

The Leaf is a glorified compliance car, not surprised people want to dump them. But if the same holds true for good EV's then we should expect the resale value to plummet for all EV.

Well right now on cars.com in the SF Bay Area 2013 MB S Class range in price from $20K-$26K. 2013 Tesla Model S range in price from $31K-$38K.  Tesla S holds resale value much better than MB S. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

45 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The Leaf is a glorified compliance car, not surprised people want to dump them. But if the same holds true for good EV's then we should expect the resale value to plummet for all EV.

Well right now on cars.com in the SF Bay Area 2013 MB S Class range in price from $20K-$26K. 2013 Tesla Model S range in price from $31K-$38K.  Tesla S holds resale value much better than MB S. 

Ah, rich pretentiousness, or staying up with the "jones's" and their pantheistic religion have their consequences eh?  Who knew...

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

36 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Ah, rich pretentiousness, or staying up with the "jones's" and their pantheistic religion have their consequences eh?  Who knew...

More zerotheism than pantheism around here. And our study of how nature actually works (very much includes human behavior, economics and physics all combined) has led us to building and driving the best car in the world for resale value. Which by market definition means it is the best car in the world. 😊

Edited May 30, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

In the US you can buy a used Leaf like by brother did for $5,000 with less than 15k miles. Now I've got it because he doesn't want it anymore. Since I've got more garages than he does, it's easier to charge for me than for him. At his house he basically needed to park it on the street, inconvenient to charge that way. The other thing about charge is the computer is so stupid, it assumes if you're going up a hill, you'll perpetually be going uphill and adjusts your miles to empty accordingly. Forget the stated "range" for this and the Tesla. I routinely run out of charge (at least according to the guage) at 50% of original. I've taken 6 mile round trips and had the "mileage" drop by 25. I've run it on 0 miles to empty but it's very distracting driving with all the warnings and alarms going off. I can see why people can't wait to dump them. 

My next door neighbor has an M3 and she's got the same issues. She calls it nerve wracking to ever be below 75% charge because distance to empty drops so fast. 

You drive a Leaf?

Battery life status issue might just need a firmware update or something silly. 

I have a GPS unit that always shows 100% battery life. I contacted the company and the solution is to let it go fully dead.  That's apparently the only way to "turn it off and back on again" as the battery is not removable. I never bothered.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

You drive a Leaf?

Battery life status issue might just need a firmware update or something silly. 

I have a GPS unit that always shows 100% battery life. I contacted the company and the solution is to let it go fully dead.  That's apparently the only way to "turn it off and back on again" as the battery is not removable. I never bothered.

No, the range is really bad, and gets worse every year, just the nature of the beast. Replacing the batteries is guaranteed to cost more than the vehicle is worth. 

Both Nissan and Tesla foolishly use AC motors instead of brushless DC. Therefore they lose about 20% of the battery power on the conversion (high frequency switching works great going from AC to DC but not the other way around). They lose another 5-10% because of the inherent inefficiency of AC vs BDC. 

[markslawson + 1,042]

23 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

All the shopping centers around here have EV charging stalls. Yours will too in the near future.

Just where you don't need them. There is no real problem about taking the EV shopping, as its just a short trip. The real problem is if you want to, say, take your car out into the Eastern suburbs on a hot day when you need air conditioning and are parking away from a shopping center. Then you realise you need recharging and all the reachable charging points are full because everyone's been listening to Jan McKinsey and bought EVs. All this was discussed in Australia when the Labor opposition was pushing EVs at the last Federal election and voters said no .. it just isn't going to happen. Leave it with you. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by markslawson
clarification

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

18 minutes ago, markslawson said:

Just where you don't need them. There is no real problem about taking the EV shopping, as its just a short trip. The real problem is if you want to, say, take your car out into the Eastern suburbs on a hot day when you need air conditioning and are parking away from a shopping center. Then you realise you need recharging and all the reachable charging points are full because everyone's been listening to Jan McKinsey and bought EVs. All this was discussed when Bill Shorten was pushing EVs at the last Federal election and voters said no .. it just isn't going to happen. Leave it with you. 

Suburbs are full of shopping centers that will have EV charging stalls. And the market has this ingenious feature where if there is such demand for charging stations then they will add more until there are enough for everyone. Soon the stalls will have charging mats for wireless charging and your automated EV can take care of charging while you are busy doing something else. 

You will be able to drive out to the beach parking lot and go for a swim while your car waits to be notified that a charging stall is about to open up, it will then drive itself to the stall and wireless charge. When it is full it will drive to a parking place to make room for the next car that needs charging.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

China To Introduce EV Wireless Charging Standard Based On WiTricity Technology

https://insideevs.com/news/420700/china-ev-wireless-charging-standard-witricity-te

Edited May 31, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 5/29/2020 at 8:25 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

And the corporate driving will be autonomous of all shapes and sizes.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2020/05/29/demand-for-these-autonomous-delivery-robots-is-skyrocketing-during-this-pandemic/#6f96505c7f3c

How does it work when people sit on it to take a free ride or just as a bench?

[0R0 + 6,251]

16 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

No, the range is really bad, and gets worse every year, just the nature of the beast. Replacing the batteries is guaranteed to cost more than the vehicle is worth. 

Both Nissan and Tesla foolishly use AC motors instead of brushless DC. Therefore they lose about 20% of the battery power on the conversion (high frequency switching works great going from AC to DC but not the other way around). They lose another 5-10% because of the inherent inefficiency of AC vs BDC. 

Any idea what the logic was about the choice of AC motor vs. DC? Is it a torque issue?

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

50 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

How does it work when people sit on it to take a free ride or just as a bench?

It has a loud siren and will take your photo and  call the police

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, 0R0 said:

Any idea what the logic was about the choice of AC motor vs. DC? Is it a torque issue?

AC Induction versus DC brushless

What's interesting is that's Tesla's Chief engineer talking. He might have been right for the moment, but that was 2007 and power electronics have obviously advanced quite a ways since then. Torque is actually better with BDC motors. And of course (since Tesla stayed with induction) he never mentions the DC to AC conversion necessary to drive their motor. 

I'd love to have the budget and team to do it right with electric cars. 

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

How does it work when people sit on it to take a free ride or just as a bench?

A one foot metal spike thrust upwards

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

AC Induction versus DC brushless

What's interesting is that's Tesla's Chief engineer talking. He might have been right for the moment, but that was 2007 and power electronics have obviously advanced quite a ways since then. Torque is actually better with BDC motors. And of course (since Tesla stayed with induction) he never mentions the DC to AC conversion necessary to drive their motor. 

I'd love to have the budget and team to do it right with electric cars. 

Most of the car companies are desperately trying to build a more efficient system than Tesla but have so far failed.If it were so simple to build a more efficient motor by simply using DC then why haven't they?

"Motor technology from Model 3 helps Tesla boost Model S range 10% The Model 3 debuted with an alternative motor technology that Tesla calls a permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor. A synchronous reluctance motor has a series of electromagnets around the stator, but the rotor doesn't have any windings or permanent magnets. Instead, the rotor contains veins of a magnetic material interspersed with non-magnetic material, arranged so that it has a preferred orientation in the magnetic field created by the stator."

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/04/motor-technology-from-model-3-helps-tesla-boost-model-s-range-10/