Will this pipeline tear Europe apart?

(edited)

Tillerson thinks Nordstream 2 is another Russian energy weapon that's going to tear Europe apart and be Moscow's definitive Trojan Horse. Running scenario: Ukraine freezes. Germany becomes totally Russian. Eastern Europe bows down big time to the Kremlin. History repeats itself for the most part. 

Edited by Carlsbad

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How would it tear Europe apart? And why would Ukraine freeze? Russian Germany? That's hilarious. xD

Plus, bad metaphor: the Trojan horse was a covert weapon of destruction. Nord Stream 2 is a VERY public project.

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3 hours ago, Marina Schwarz said:

How would it tear Europe apart? And why would Ukraine freeze? Russian Germany? That's hilarious. xD

Plus, bad metaphor: the Trojan horse was a covert weapon of destruction. Nord Stream 2 is a VERY public project.

Bad metaphor, yes. But I'm assuming the logic is that Russia will be able to cut off supplies and demand certain prices as it sees fit, giving it effective control over many countries in Europe. Is that not how you see it? 

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Friend was recently in Germany and locals he was with asked if they could get gas somewhere else when they pulled into a Gazprom station. Didn't want to talk about it, but there is this undercurrent of fear by many who feel that the Russians have far too much money floating around Germany.

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and forgive the Trojan Horse metaphor :)

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I actually think the metaphor isn't far off. Yes, Nordstream is very public. So was the horse. It's what's inside, metaphorically speaking, that's of concern. Change doesn't happen instantaneously ... it creeps up on us. It subdues us, makes us complacent and then before we know it we are slaves to something.

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11 hours ago, Rodent said:

 

Bad metaphor, yes. But I'm assuming the logic is that Russia will be able to cut off supplies and demand certain prices as it sees fit, giving it effective control over many countries in Europe. Is that not how you see it? 

I see it as business, plain and simple. Russia needs markets for its gas. Europe needs gas and TAP is yet to be built (which is a shame, really, for a continent that's so bent on energy diversification. A lot of people seem to forget that when Russia cut off Ukraine's gas, it was because of a payments dispute. True, Ukraine was for decades a satellite state and Russia still seems to treat it as only half-independent but can anyone really imagine Russia cutting off the gas for Germany for no real reason just to assert its geopolitical influence? That's straight from the Book of Paranoia.

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10 hours ago, Kate Turlington said:

I actually think the metaphor isn't far off. Yes, Nordstream is very public. So was the horse. It's what's inside, metaphorically speaking, that's of concern. Change doesn't happen instantaneously ... it creeps up on us. It subdues us, makes us complacent and then before we know it we are slaves to something.

Complacent is the last thing Europe is when it comes to Russian gas. Just think about Poland and the Baltic states.

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It is business, of course. But it's not solely business when we're dealing with state-run companies. China and Russia are great examples of this. 

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Poland and the Baltic states are fighters. Others aren't though ... too poor to fight and definitely too poor to risk more expensive gas even if it means independence from Russia. 

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(edited)

On 13/12/2017 at 4:41 PM, Rodent said:

 

Bad metaphor, yes. But I'm assuming the logic is that Russia will be able to cut off supplies and demand certain prices as it sees fit, giving it effective control over many countries in Europe. Is that not how you see it? 

Lol, if Gazprom increase its price, supply by LNG will become more affordable and competitive ...And it would be a big present to american who are not able, at this time, to send their gas to Europe because the low price.

 

So, what you has written is false !

And do not forget that Russia need the European market ! Cut the supply toward Europe will put them in a bad economic situation !

 

Edited by meziane
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I dont want to pay more for diversification. Poland is perfect example- their Qatar deal is much more expensive than Gazprom gas. This winter in late February we saw that only Gazprom can increase exports immediately because of freezy winter. Thats all- they are cheap  flexible and reliable partner because they need incomes from Europe even more than Europe needs russian gas.

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