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A story of a cured Trump cultist

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9 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Supremely interesting and touching story. 

As a fatherI would have no issues telling this father...just where you when this drug issue started.

As a tax paying citizen I would like to personally ask Obama where the he'll were you when this opioid crisis started. 

Perhaps this sad story is a stark reminder that we as individuals are responsible for our own actions

 

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So to be clear, his son died of opioid addiction that had as its root the opium poppies raised by the Muslims he frets about being demeaned at the 7 minute mark. Those addiction centers were wide open while his son was over dosing and didn't do a damn bit of good. What's driven the flyover country to addiction during the mismanagement of the Obama administration was the complete and utter lack of future. No jobs, no prospects, nothing to do but get high and watch the tube. Trump put those people to work and the 3.5% unemployment was populated with a bunch of folks who couldn't get a job because they couldn't pass a drug test. 

But no fear, thanks to Yoshi's buddies in the CCP we don't have to worry about 3% unemployed but 30% thanks to ineptitude from Democratic governors shutting down vast swathes of the US economy, all while blaming Trump. Only a venal and sycophant press would repeat that claptrap, luckily for the DNC, they've got exactly that. 

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3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

As a fatherI would have no issues telling this father...just where you when this drug issue started.

As a tax paying citizen I would like to personally ask Obama where the he'll were you when this opioid crisis started. 

Perhaps this sad story is a stark reminder that we as individuals are responsible for our own actions

 

The opioid crisis was started by pharmaceutical companies (Purdue) who provided poor prescribing instructions to physicians. 

Patients were put on time-release drugs, but the drugs didn't last as long as the company said they would. 

Doctors reported back to the company that the drug didn't last as long as advertised.  The doctors were told to increase the dosage of the time-release formulation and not increase frequency (as the time-release feature was a key part of the patent).

Large doses of time-release drug - that don't last - creates alternating waves of euphoria and pain.  The roller-coaster effect makes the drug far more addictive than if they were just provided constant pain relief (yes many addicts started with legitimate pain).

Then once hooked, it's Dr shopping, then switching to cheaper street drugs...

Edited by Enthalpic
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2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

So to be clear, his son died of opioid addiction that had as its root the opium poppies raised by the Muslims he frets about being demeaned at the 7 minute mark.

Plain old opium has been around forever and didn't cause anything like this.  

Purdue -a bankrupt US company- created the addiction; then China saw a fentanyl market in all your newly created junkies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdue_Pharma

Edited by Enthalpic
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13 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

The opioid crisis was started by pharmaceutical companies (Purdue) who provided poor prescribing instruction to physicians. 

Patients were put on time-release drugs, but the drugs didn't last as long as the company said they would. 

Doctors reported back to the company that the drug didn't last as long as advertised.  The doctors were told to increase the dosage of the time-release formulation and not increase frequency. 

Large doses of time-release drug - that don't last - creates alternating waves of euphoria and pain.  The roller-coaster coaster effect makes the drug far more addictive than if they were just provided constant pain relief (yes many addicts started with legitimate pain).

Then once hooked, it's Dr shopping, then switching to cheaper street drugs...

 

2018-3-Wave-Lines-Mortality.png

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7 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

 

2018-3-Wave-Lines-Mortality.png

Those are deaths.  Oxycontin was FDA approved in 1995 and was selling fast by 2000.  Lines up nicely with that graph...

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44 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Those are deaths.  Oxycontin was FDA approved in 1995 and was selling fast by 2000.  Lines up nicely with that graph...

Yes the 8 yrs of Obama could well be called the trail of tears...in the end millions died due to the lack of critical thinking objective reasoning...Just what did this man do that creates such loyalty..destroy the fabric of the US in the name of social justice?....Actually his incompetence is so blatant it defies imagination....and now the left wants his second in command...

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2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Yes the 8 yrs of Obama could well be called the trail of tears...in the end millions died due to the lack of critical thinking objective reasoning...Just what did this man do that creates such loyalty..destroy the fabric of the US in the name of social justice?....Actually his incompetence is so blatant it defies imagination....and now the left wants his second in command...

It Started under Clinton, and then Bush had his long time, and deaths continue under trump, but Obama is fully to blame? 

Edited by Enthalpic
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51 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

It Started under Clinton, and then Bush had his long time, and deaths continue under trump, but Obama is fully to blame?

I ask once again to look at those graphs, you portray yourself as somewhat of a analytical thinker.

When did the deaths spike? When did they explode exponentially? Who's watch...who's responsibility 

Good thing you brought up Trump....just what did he do...Ohh yes made it into what it really was a tradgey. Closed down borders, put severe scrunity on import security and spent billions on law enforcement.

Edited by Eyes Wide Open
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The pharmaceutical industry in the United States is out of control and dangerous.  They have too much power in our government and their lobbying machine is mammoth.  One could argue they are a driving force behind all that is being done to abuse and exploit the Covid-19 situation in the U.S. and, to the extent possible, other democratic and capitalist countries in the world.  Our government fails us every day from a regulation and enforcement standpoint.  Both Federal and State, there are no innocents with regards to this question.

President Trump has addressed issues to do with prescription medicine costs and "right to try" acts, but he has failed just as badly as every other government "leader" when it comes to pharmaceutical industry regulation, oversight and enforcement, and I see no reason to believe any other politician of any party would do any better.  Not an excuse for Trump, just my feelings about the reality.

And as far as illicit/illegal drugs, the United States government has spent some $1 Trillion on the war on drugs since the late 1970s, the vast majority of which crosses our southern border, and we have very little to show for it.  To this day, tons of illegal drugs pass through our porous southern border every day and it is beyond belief that there is any argument AT ALL that a wall needs to be in place for this reason alone. 

In my opinion, you will never take away the market for illegal drugs; you can only block as many delivery methods as humanly possible.  That means a hard wall, low level radar, a strong and active Coast Guard and funding for the DEA and ICE to employ all technologies to find and shut down any other methods of entry and activities as well.  We have great people manning the southern border and they need our support, every bit as much support as our military enjoys, and they need to be taken out of the politics of the day the same as the military (well, for the most part anyway).

 

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16 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

And as far as illicit/illegal drugs, the United States government has spent some $1 Trillion on the war on drugs since the late 1970s, the vast majority of which crosses our southern border, and we have very little to show for it.  To this day, tons of illegal drugs pass through our porous southern border every day and it is beyond belief that there is any argument AT ALL that a wall needs to be in place for this reason alone. 

In my opinion, you will never take away the market for illegal drugs; you can only block as many delivery methods as humanly possible.  That means a hard wall, low level radar, a strong and active Coast Guard and funding for the DEA and ICE to employ all technologies to find and shut down any other methods of entry and activities as well.  We have great people manning the southern border and they need our support, every bit as much support as our military enjoys, and they need to be taken out of the politics of the day the same as the military (well, for the most part anyway).

 

https://ssir.org/articles/entry/inside_switzerlands_radical_drug_policy_innovation

whilst I agree that it is not fair to single out any politician for the rise of drug abuse in the West I disagree that addressing supply is the way to address drug abuse. See above - Switzerlands approach might be unconventional, but it produces results. 

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6 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

https://ssir.org/articles/entry/inside_switzerlands_radical_drug_policy_innovation

whilst I agree that it is not fair to single out any politician for the rise of drug abuse in the West I disagree that addressing supply is the way to address drug abuse. See above - Switzerlands approach might be unconventional, but it produces results. 

Rasmus, I do appreciate your input and your optimism.  You typically look for examples of what works as opposed to what does not work.  All good.

I just wish you wouldn't point out almost completely white countries with populations of about 9 million when you do so.

Part of the U.S. government's budget, whether Federal or State, is continually targeted towards drug treatment programs.  You are right though, we need to continue to push for ever more treatment and services for the addicted.  Unfortunately, that only helps those that want help or those that have no choice.  

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This documentary pretty much sums up why the Heroin epidemic became as bad as it is. Heroin has always been around and easy to get. The current mass addition rates are not caused from drugs coming over the border or some massive social shift. It was/is a government change in policy. Prudue Pharma = Pablo Escobar of Heroin

https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/warning-this-drug-may-kill-you/what-you-might-not-know-about-opiod-addiction

 

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I watched a video once where they were interviewing addicts. My apology for not remembering the name, it was on YouTube. One of the addicts interviewed said something very profound. He said, "All addicts want to kill themselves, most just don't have the courage". It was in an AA setting and there were about a dozen addicts nodding their heads to what he'd just said. Now think about famous, wealthy, dead addicts like Kurt Cobain who had everything going for them but couldn't fill that emptiness inside. 

I think there's something like 60k deaths per year from overdoses and about the same from suicides. Or just figure there's 120k per year killing themselves in this country. But yeah, Trump's fault. 

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9 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

The pharmaceutical industry in the United States is out of control and dangerous.  They have too much power in our government and their lobbying machine is mammoth.  One could argue they are a driving force behind all that is being done to abuse and exploit the Covid-19 situation in the U.S. and, to the extent possible, other democratic and capitalist countries in the world.  Our government fails us every day from a regulation and enforcement standpoint.  Both Federal and State, there are no innocents with regards to this question.

President Trump has addressed issues to do with prescription medicine costs and "right to try" acts, but he has failed just as badly as every other government "leader" when it comes to pharmaceutical industry regulation, oversight and enforcement, and I see no reason to believe any other politician of any party would do any better.  Not an excuse for Trump, just my feelings about the reality.

And as far as illicit/illegal drugs, the United States government has spent some $1 Trillion on the war on drugs since the late 1970s, the vast majority of which crosses our southern border, and we have very little to show for it.  To this day, tons of illegal drugs pass through our porous southern border every day and it is beyond belief that there is any argument AT ALL that a wall needs to be in place for this reason alone. 

In my opinion, you will never take away the market for illegal drugs; you can only block as many delivery methods as humanly possible.  That means a hard wall, low level radar, a strong and active Coast Guard and funding for the DEA and ICE to employ all technologies to find and shut down any other methods of entry and activities as well.  We have great people manning the southern border and they need our support, every bit as much support as our military enjoys, and they need to be taken out of the politics of the day the same as the military (well, for the most part anyway).

 

High purity fentanyl can easily be sent through the mail...

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47 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

I think there's something like 60k deaths per year from overdoses and about the same from suicides. Or just figure there's 120k per year killing themselves in this country. But yeah, Trump's fault. 

Perhaps that is true, but identifying what came first is important in treatment: did the mental illness lead to self-treatment addiction, or did addiction make them mentally I'll? 

I actually don't blame trump for this. Well, maybe a bit if he is cutting safe injection sites or rehab programs. Or I guess that time trump let border agents go unpaid - that can't be good.

 

Edited by Enthalpic

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1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

High purity fentanyl can easily be sent through the mail...

I'd be too afraid to work with it. Pretty dangerous in higher concentrations isn't it? 

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2 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

I'd be too afraid to work with it. Pretty dangerous in higher concentrations isn't it? 

Deadly, and if you don't dilute it perfectly (no clumps) people will die.

Edited by Enthalpic

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23 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Rasmus, I do appreciate your input and your optimism.  You typically look for examples of what works as opposed to what does not work.  All good.

 

Thank you. 

23 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

I just wish you wouldn't point out almost completely white countries with populations of about 9 million when you do so.

Part of the U.S. government's budget, whether Federal or State, is continually targeted towards drug treatment programs.  You are right though, we need to continue to push for ever more treatment and services for the addicted.  Unfortunately, that only helps those that want help or those that have no choice.  

I don't really think that it matters where the example comes from. Switzerland (and a few others) have taken a different approach to drug abuse and they are getting results. Real results. Why not try this? 

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1 hour ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Thank you. 

I don't really think that it matters where the example comes from. Switzerland (and a few others) have taken a different approach to drug abuse and they are getting results. Real results. Why not try this? 

The thanks goes to you for your positive attitude.

It is not that I doubt the effectiveness of the 4 pillars program; it is that I doubt we could get either a referendum, or in other words a 70ish % buy-in, or the reliable continuous funding it would require.  Americans, unfortunately, believe drug addiction is a personal choice and is not something that average taxpayers want to pay for.  I know, I know, they should be educated about the 4 pillars and its success.  I agree.  But again, no entity in the U.S. has been successful at generating the interest.

Some of it is our politics, some of it is our individualist (some may say selfish) preoccupation.  Those are two of the main reasons we don't have universal healthcare, which is a major factor in the 4 pillars.

Sheer numbers are another factor.  If a group, or the government itself, were to get the buy in required to try the 4 pillars, you may not find enough people to man the posts/clinics/drug centers/etc.

There a lot of reasons why a country of 330 million cannot be managed the same as a country of 8 or 9 million: 321 or 322 million of them.  Throw in various religions, ethnicities, politics and just plain old hard headedness, and, well, good luck.  Anything that is even perceived as socialist gets blasted in the U.S.  Yes, I know the perception is skewed and many people don't really understand the ways that they already implement social services in their day to day lives; maybe that is the place to start with the campaign.

Anyway, I agree the U.S. should try it and since it would be good for humanity as a whole if it worked in the U.S., I nominate you to go there on your next holiday and make the proposal to the Federal government.  Just kidding.  

Edited by Dan Warnick
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On 7/20/2020 at 3:56 AM, Enthalpic said:

The opioid crisis was started by pharmaceutical companies (Purdue) who provided poor prescribing instructions to physicians. 

Patients were put on time-release drugs, but the drugs didn't last as long as the company said they would. 

Doctors reported back to the company that the drug didn't last as long as advertised.  The doctors were told to increase the dosage of the time-release formulation and not increase frequency (as the time-release feature was a key part of the patent).

Large doses of time-release drug - that don't last - creates alternating waves of euphoria and pain.  The roller-coaster effect makes the drug far more addictive than if they were just provided constant pain relief (yes many addicts started with legitimate pain).

Then once hooked, it's Dr shopping, then switching to cheaper street drugs...

Drugs are a great problem all over the world, but the problem with oxycodon and prescribed drugs in this dimension is a specian usa problem. In germany many many people take oxycodon, fentanyl or tramal, but there were about 1333 deads in 2019 and be shure, you can buy drugs evrywhere in germany, thats not a problem. I think its a structural problem with the medical care in usa, when people can`t afford correct care and the power of great companies with there paying for elections. For many it is the only way in usa to buy illegal drugs, because they can`t afford correct treatment and when you have always great pain, you will do everything to stop that. But i know, a common insurance is only a bad idea from old europe from bad socialist. O.k , but when a country choose to do it this way, they can`t complain all time. In  germany you have to pay much for insurance, but when you need a new heart or kidney, the insurance pay for it.

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