New Chinese Coal Plants Equal All those in U.S.A

[frankfurter + 562]

6 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Thanks, Sebastian. You are really up on the technology. That helps me understand the other side of the story! China uses more concrete than maybe the rest of the world together.  The Chinese and Indians etc. will do whatever is best for them. I just want the world to know what is going on and how the Chinese will benefit from producing Green Products while the world consumes more of them. 

 

 

so, you want the world to know what is going on. how noble. yet you use sources known to be entirely propaganda, thus reducing your efforts to a joke. sure, China is completing coal plants it started a decade ago. but you and your sources omit how many coal plants have been dismantled, in the hundreds. and you omit the great increase in natgas imports. and omit how natgas is transported by sea, which carriers are ultra polluters. and omit how China ports are operating beyond capacity to berth all the vessels, with no additional ports possible due to geography. and omit how China and Russia are cooperating to build more pipelines, which are over a thousand miles long, over extreme terrain and temperatures, thus an engineering and safety nightmare. and you omit the economics of all the above.  your knowledge is so woefully inadequate as to be moronic.

The only remaining choice is nuclear.  uh, you want risk another Chernobyl, Fukushima?  as a murcan, maybe you do, for your country released untold amounts of nuclides from your nuclear bomb tests below ground, above ground, and in ALL the oceans of the world.  the fact cancer rates have increased globally since those bomb 'tests' is no coincidence.

 

[nsdp + 449]

On 4/13/2021 at 1:58 AM, Sebastian Meana said:

Yes, is true, coal plants produce tailings because of the fly ash, and that fly ash must be disposed from, that an issue they are really toxic, but that can be stored and used in the concrete as a enchanced, concrete mixed with ash is better

A good chunk of the pollution in china and india is not just power generation but industrial coal uses in heating and steel industry, blast furnaces more precisely, which are sectors in which is expensive to put aftertreatment systems like in coal powerplants, on the other hand GE offers a wide array of way to reduce coal pollution at levels even lower than natural gas.

IN the European Union which has stronger pollution standards for powerplants against the USA, the limit of natural gas plants are 50Mg/Nm3 of NOx, 35Mg/Nm3 of SO2, and 5-10Mg/Nm3 of particulate matter, better known as soot, for china the rule of new coal plants that have to operate after 2020 is 50Mg/Nm3 of NOx, 35Mg/Nm3 of SO2 and 10Mg/Nm3 of Soot.

If you want General Electric will offer  you even lower emissions for the aftreatment of coal powerplants, 10Mg/Nm3 of NOx, 15Mg/Nm3 of SO2, and 10Mg/Nm3 of of Soot, 2.5Mg/Nm3 if you use a fabric soot filter.

So yes, electrifying industry and using the coal mainly at the powerplants would eliminate air pollution in china and india

Europe emission limits
China new emissions limits
General electric coal pamphlet.

GE  lumps PM10 and PM2.5 together in their pamphlet  not separately as set by statute.   How about some honesty now that the DC Circuit rolled back and the Supreme Court affirmed the rollbackTrump's increased permitted Section 112 Toxic waste standard from the 2008 standard.  GE no longer meets the Section 112 current air permit standards when operated more than 68% capacity factor for either PM10 or PM2.5  even with the lowest PM fuel. Also there is a little problem with Blades that GE has had to note in their 10-K.  When lead, bismuth,  selenium and mercury remain using flyash in concrete is limited

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,132]

On 4/12/2021 at 11:58 PM, Sebastian Meana said:

IN the European Union which has stronger pollution standards for powerplants against the USA, the limit of natural gas plants are 50Mg/Nm3 of NOx, 35Mg/Nm3 of SO2, and 5-10Mg/Nm3 of particulate matter, better known as soot, for china the rule of new coal plants that have to operate after 2020 is 50Mg/Nm3 of NOx, 35Mg/Nm3 of SO2 and 10Mg/Nm3 of Soot.

China has always copied standards from others.....  Today they already have said standards, so why you are bringing up "new" standards is ridiculous.  China never implement them though.  They do not care.  They do care about jobs though and to Hell with anything else.  The only thing they care about is $$$

[RichieRich216 + 454]

A DIRECT FUCK YOU TO “ THE PARIS ACCORDS “ AND A BIGGER FUUUCK YOU TO BRAIN DEAD BIDEN AND TGAT NAPPY HAIR HARRIS AND THE REST OF THE FUCKUPS RUNNING THIS COUNTRY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE…..

[turbguy + 1,401]

On 4/15/2021 at 10:57 PM, nsdp said:

GE  lumps PM10 and PM2.5 together in their pamphlet  not separately as set by statute.   How about some honesty now that the DC Circuit rolled back and the Supreme Court affirmed the rollbackTrump's increased permitted Section 112 Toxic waste standard from the 2008 standard.  GE no longer meets the Section 112 current air permit standards when operated more than 68% capacity factor for either PM10 or PM2.5  even with the lowest PM fuel. Also there is a little problem with Blades that GE has had to note in their 10-K.  When lead, bismuth,  selenium and mercury remain using flyash in concrete is limited

Actually, the vast proportion of true fly ash is effectively portland cement and is readily sold. 

Now, BOTTOM ASH (the real estate that won't burn and falls down) is nastier.  Some can be used in concrete if the unburned carbon content is very low.  Else it goes to a settling pond and is land-filed.

Also of interest, main and reheat steam conditions for ultra-supercritical units have not advanced much since 1957.

https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/226-eddystone-station-unit-1

I have experience with Eddystone #1.  Internal high temperature corrosion made it exceedingly difficult to disassemble (parts were effectively "glued" together).

https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/228-philo-6-steam-electric-generating-unit

I have experience with Philo #6, but only after being converted by AEP to a synchronous condenser.

I'm not saying a 50 (+/-) degree F increase is not worth the effort, but the change is still being restrained by metallurgy.

The same will rear it's ugly head for fusion boilers.

Edited April 28, 2021 by turbguy

[nsdp + 449]

9 hours ago, turbguy said:

Actually, the vast proportion of true fly ash is effectively portland cement and is readily sold. 

Now, BOTTOM ASH (the real estate that won't burn and falls down) is nastier.  Some can be used in concrete if the unburned carbon content is very low.  Else it goes to a settling pond and is land-filed.

Also of interest, main and reheat steam conditions for ultra-supercritical units have not advanced much since 1957.

https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/226-eddystone-station-unit-1

I have experience with Eddystone #1.  Internal high temperature corrosion made it exceedingly difficult to disassemble (parts were effectively "glued" together).

https://www.asme.org/about-asme/engineering-history/landmarks/228-philo-6-steam-electric-generating-unit

I have experience with Philo #6, but only after being converted by AEP to a synchronous condenser.

I'm not saying a 50 (+/-) degree F increase is not worth the effort, but the change is still being restrained by metallurgy.

The same will rear it's ugly head for fusion boilers.

We are talking about two different issues here. I am talking about the invisible  particulates that the bag house and other electrostatic precipitation can't trap that your lungs send through the airsac and into your blood. 

"Between 85,000 and 200,000 deaths in the US are attributed to fine particle (PM 2.5) air pollution each year. Even as the nation has brought down overall air pollution levels, environmentalists have remained stumped by the fact that the burden of air pollution continues to fall along racial lines in the US." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/28/us-air-pollution-fine-particle-study-people-of-color-exposed-more

• PM_2.5 : fine inhalable particles, with diameters that are generally 2.5 micrometers and smaller.
  • How small is 2.5 micrometers? Think about a single hair from your head. The average human hair is about 70 micrometers in diameter – making it 30 times larger than the largest fine particle.

This problem is in the air emissions not what the bag houses and electrostatic precipitates remove as solid waste.  PM2.5 is too small and goes up the flue and causes asthma in kids.

"There were only two types of the pollution sources that exposed white people more than average: agriculture and coal-powered electricity generation."

How are you going to keep a fusion boiler water wall from vaporizing at less than 50 million miles? LOL  Our fusion fanatics haven't thought that one through yet. Oh yeah, use kryptonite.

[turbguy + 1,401]

15 hours ago, nsdp said:

We are talking about two different issues here. I am talking about the invisible  particulates that the bag house and other electrostatic precipitation can't trap that your lungs send through the airsac and into your blood. 

"Between 85,000 and 200,000 deaths in the US are attributed to fine particle (PM 2.5) air pollution each year. Even as the nation has brought down overall air pollution levels, environmentalists have remained stumped by the fact that the burden of air pollution continues to fall along racial lines in the US." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/28/us-air-pollution-fine-particle-study-people-of-color-exposed-more

• PM_2.5 : fine inhalable particles, with diameters that are generally 2.5 micrometers and smaller.
  • How small is 2.5 micrometers? Think about a single hair from your head. The average human hair is about 70 micrometers in diameter – making it 30 times larger than the largest fine particle.

This problem is in the air emissions not what the bag houses and electrostatic precipitates remove as solid waste.  PM2.5 is too small and goes up the flue and causes asthma in kids.

"There were only two types of the pollution sources that exposed white people more than average: agriculture and coal-powered electricity generation."

How are you going to keep a fusion boiler water wall from vaporizing at less than 50 million miles? LOL  Our fusion fanatics haven't thought that one through yet. Oh yeah, use kryptonite.

True, small stuff can pass though ESP's and bag houses.  An ESP can collect a lot of small stuff, but not all.

In a fusion tokamak, they will need a LIQUID LITHIUM blanket as the fusion-facing surface.  I doubt they will get much above low temp saturated steam conditions for a while.  At least lithium boils WAY up there at STP. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by turbguy