Something wicked this way comes

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Another excellent treatise on Current events that ties everything up neatly with a silver bow. 

Quote

At this point in the global hysteria — increasingly mixed with petty bureaucratic malevolence — over Covid-19, we have seamlessly passed from tragedy to farce, as a Marxist might say. As far back as April, it was already clear that the international Left was being forced to choose between its twin apocalyptic wet dreams of global destruction via “climate change” and global destruction via the second coming of the Black Death, aka, the Dreaded Coronavirus. If we didn’t all drown from the rising oceans or fry under a burning sun, we would fall like tenpins to a virus of such deadliness that it has a kill rate of .04% and most victims don’t even know they have it.

Why the Left has such a burning psychological need to constantly fantasize about destruction is no secret: in effect, they are a monomaniacal suicide cult with the added fillip of wanting to take the rest of the world down with them. They exist fearfully in a crabbed, constricted self-prison, in which anything — a breath, a fart, a sneeze, the flick of a light switch — can unleash cataclysmic events. What the arbitrary and capricious lockdowns have taught us — in addition to the fact that the American constitution is now clinically dead, and that the Bill of Rights no longer is absolute — is to fear our fellow man and thus turn ourselves into a nation of snitches and scolds.

It goes on but the gist of it is right there in its first two paragraphs. So instead of "flattening the curve", we can't "unlock" society until there's no disease at all? Constant flicking of the lizard brain means in most people that your next fear mongering is going to fall on deaf ears. Fight or flight will be replaced by yawn. Deservedly so I might add. 

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

7 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Another excellent treatise on Current events that ties everything up neatly with a silver bow. 

Quote

At this point in the global hysteria — increasingly mixed with petty bureaucratic malevolence — over Covid-19, we have seamlessly passed from tragedy to farce, as a Marxist might say. As far back as April, it was already clear that the international Left was being forced to choose between its twin apocalyptic wet dreams of global destruction via “climate change” and global destruction via the second coming of the Black Death, aka, the Dreaded Coronavirus. If we didn’t all drown from the rising oceans or fry under a burning sun, we would fall like tenpins to a virus of such deadliness that it has a kill rate of .04% and most victims don’t even know they have it.

Why the Left has such a burning psychological need to constantly fantasize about destruction is no secret: in effect, they are a monomaniacal suicide cult with the added fillip of wanting to take the rest of the world down with them. They exist fearfully in a crabbed, constricted self-prison, in which anything — a breath, a fart, a sneeze, the flick of a light switch — can unleash cataclysmic events. What the arbitrary and capricious lockdowns have taught us — in addition to the fact that the American constitution is now clinically dead, and that the Bill of Rights no longer is absolute — is to fear our fellow man and thus turn ourselves into a nation of snitches and scolds.

It goes on but the gist of it is right there in its first two paragraphs. So instead of "flattening the curve", we can't "unlock" society until there's no disease at all? Constant flicking of the lizard brain means in most people that your next fear mongering is going to fall on deaf ears. Fight or flight will be replaced by yawn. Deservedly so I might add. 

That is extremely powerful, because it is spot on true.

I am not going to live the rest of my days in this kind of nightmare.  I will resist all the way.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Great article--the guy can really write. 

I fear that we're about to see even greater violence in the United States. The Leftists are so confident of a sweep that they're threatening to change the # of justices in the SCOTUS. On the face of it, logic would tell us that something like that would require a constitutional amendment, which takes a supermajority (2/3) in both houses, then signed off on by the president. By a quirk of the Constitution, the # of justices wasn't stipulated. Nine was the # arbitrarily chosen. During the Civil War, the court was "packed" for obvious reasons: to settle disputes about the war and then Reconstruction. The Judicial Act of 1869 put the # back to 9 and there it has remained. 

BUT, alarmingly, the concept of "court-packing" has been bantered about by the fringe far-left. A sweep would be catastrophic for the country--which is still largely centrist--as justices could be added until the Supreme Court became a cudgel for the far-left agenda. Theoretically, since the Constitution doesn't specify, and since a change requires only a simple majority in both legislative houses, then signed off on by the president, they could "court-pack" with 20 liberal justices, which would change the entire complexion of the country. 

This is all I recall from high school constitutional law, I'm afraid. This seemed to me then to be a glaring omission by the Founders, and looking back over the last many years, it still does. I suspect this came from the Magna Carta, as did so much else of our Constitution. My professor liked to say, "The British weren't using it so we did." Anyway, this is a staggering Sword of Damocles hanging over the head of the People of the Land. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

 

I fear that we're about to see even greater violence in the United States.

Indeed.  Praise trump!

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, Tom Nolan said:

 

I am not going to live the rest of my days in this kind of nightmare. 

What nightmare?  Wearing a mask occasionally? 

Other than international travel there is essentially nothing I can't do, and I have little desire to leave Canada during this chaos.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Great article--the guy can really write. 

I fear that we're about to see even greater violence in the United States. The Leftists are so confident of a sweep that they're threatening to change the # of justices in the SCOTUS. On the face of it, logic would tell us that something like that would require a constitutional amendment, which takes a supermajority (2/3) in both houses, then signed off on by the president. By a quirk of the Constitution, the # of justices wasn't stipulated. Nine was the # arbitrarily chosen. During the Civil War, the court was "packed" for obvious reasons: to settle disputes about the war and then Reconstruction. The Judicial Act of 1869 put the # back to 9 and there it has remained. 

BUT, alarmingly, the concept of "court-packing" has been bantered about by the fringe far-left. A sweep would be catastrophic for the country--which is still largely centrist--as justices could be added until the Supreme Court became a cudgel for the far-left agenda. Theoretically, since the Constitution doesn't specify, and since a change requires only a simple majority in both legislative houses, then signed off on by the president, they could "court-pack" with 20 liberal justices, which would change the entire complexion of the country. 

This is all I recall from high school constitutional law, I'm afraid. This seemed to me then to be a glaring omission by the Founders, and looking back over the last many years, it still does. I suspect this came from the Magna Carta, as did so much else of our Constitution. My professor liked to say, "The British weren't using it so we did." Anyway, this is a staggering Sword of Damocles hanging over the head of the People of the Land. 

The leftists are only confident of a sweep because they've thoroughly gamed the system. They got away with stuffing the ballot box in California and replacing sitting congressmen in conservative districts with flaming liberals, as if Lockheed's employees suddenly decided they didn't want to make weapons anymore but wanted to install flowers in gun barrels.

They've already filled in those 80 million ballots that are supposedly going to be mailed out. You can receive a ballot, you can dutifully fill it out, but the Demoncrats have no interest in counting your vote. Your vote will be dealt with by your union postal worker, who are already fully in the tank for Biden and the Demoncrats. For them it's about pensions they don't need to pay for, enough of this contributing to a retirement plan BS. 

Taking over a country is as easy now as it was for the nazis with their whopping 22% of the votes. Enough to get a foothold is enough to control, then destroy, a great nation. 

Lizard brain @Enthalpicwill vote this down, like every one of my posts that scare his amygdala. Better to vote down than allow his upper mind to actually reason and then find that reason causes conflicts with all his knee jerk "reactions" that substitute for thinking. He'll even reply, as if I could care the slightest what he had to say. If he actually showed thinking skills I'd care, but in two years he hasn't demonstrated them so no point. Since be didn't get the memo, a little primer on lizard brain

Quote

The Reptilian or Primal Brain

In MacLean's triune brain model, the basal ganglia are referred to as the reptilian or primal brain, as this structure is in control of our innate and automatic self-preserving behavior patterns, which ensure our survival and that of our species. The primal brain is also in charge of, what are often referred to as, the four Fs: Feeding, Fighting, Fleeing, and… Reproduction (well, we won’t use that other f-word here!). Notable behavior patterns include defense of self, family, and personal property, physical communication, and socially approved actions, such as handshakes, head nods, and bowing.

Interestingly, the lizard people have their own family which consists of like-minded lizard brained non thinkers, who they will instinctively and dutifully follow and support. In their (lack) of thinking, they'll pretend it is the other who doesn't think, all evidence to the contrary, as they reflexively lurch from MSM programmed limbic response to limbic response. Good little (non thinking) soldiers. 

MacLean is wrong in one vital respect. He claimed these selfish responses ensure the survival of the species. In that he is fundamentally wrong. Every mother who sacrifices herself for her progeny is overcoming the ganglia imperative, not succumbing to it. It's no wonder the lizard leftists hate the police. Police will head into danger to protect the other while every instinct of the lizards is to run from it or herd together hoping that another lizard gets the axe and not them. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

18 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

The leftists are only confident of a sweep because they've thoroughly gamed the system. They got away with stuffing the ballot box in California and replacing sitting congressmen in conservative districts with flaming liberals, as if Lockheed's employees suddenly decided they didn't want to make weapons anymore but wanted to install flowers in gun barrels.

They've already filled in those 80 million ballots that are supposedly going to be mailed out. You can receive a ballot, you can dutifully fill it out, but the Demoncrats have no interest in counting your vote. Your vote will be dealt with by your union postal worker, who are already fully in the tank for Biden and the Demoncrats. For them it's about pensions they don't need to pay for, enough of this contributing to a retirement plan BS. 

Taking over a country is as easy now as it was for the nazis with their whopping 22% of the votes. Enough to get a foothold is enough to control, then destroy, a great nation. 

Lizard brain @Enthalpicwill vote this down, like every one of my posts that scare his amygdala. Better to vote down than allow his upper mind to actually reason and then find that reason causes conflicts with all his knee jerk "reactions" that substitute for thinking. He'll even reply, as if I could care the slightest what he had to say. If he actually showed thinking skills I'd care, but in two years he hasn't demonstrated them so no point. Since be didn't get the memo, a little primer on lizard brain

Interestingly, the lizard people have their own family which consists of like-minded lizard brained non thinkers, who they will instinctively and dutifully follow and support. In their (lack) of thinking, they'll pretend it is the other who doesn't think, all evidence to the contrary, as they reflexively lurch from MSM programmed limbic response to limbic response. Good little (non thinking) soldiers. 

MacLean is wrong in one vital respect. He claimed these selfish responses ensure the survival of the species. In that he is fundamentally wrong. Every mother who sacrifices herself for her progeny is overcoming the ganglia imperative, not succumbing to it. It's no wonder the lizard leftists hate the police. Police will head into danger to protect the other while every instinct of the lizards is to run from it or herd together hoping that another lizard gets the axe and not them. 

Ward doesn't just care... he obsesses about me.

Jan and Ward should team up for a 400,000 word book on how little than care about me.  

So entertaining.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

What nightmare?  Wearing a mask occasionally? 

Other than international travel there is essentially nothing I can't do, and I have little desire to leave Canada during this chaos.

You partially answered your own question with chaos. Add the destruction of the economy, especially in Demoncrat run states and cities. Before the election, all fear of the future of COVID 19 should subside substantially. If President Trump is reelected there is no problem. He will not allow the Deep State to do anything much more to him. Hopefully the last four years of their activity will result in some going to jail, but at least fully exposed. The balance of power between the Senate, the House, the Executive Branch, and The Supreme Court will also be in play. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

4 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Ward doesn't just care... he obsesses about me.

Jan and Ward should team up for a 400,000 word book on how little than care about me.  

So entertaining.

My dear fellow a note here...Slow Leak. A phenomenon that occurs just when things are going quite nicely.

Quite annoying at times...then one must accept thee drudgery of maintance and move on.

Such Is Life comes to mind.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

54 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

You partially answered your own question with chaos. Add the destruction of the economy, especially in Demoncrat run states and cities. Before the election, all fear of the future of COVID 19 should subside substantially. If President Trump is reelected there is no problem. He will not allow the Deep State to do anything much more to him. Hopefully the last four years of their activity will result in some going to jail, but at least fully exposed. The balance of power between the Senate, the House, the Executive Branch, and The Supreme Court will also be in play. 

Most of the chaos is limited to the USA.

Today I went for a lovely bike ride with my partner; then I walked to the local fishing hole and caught two rainbow trout and two perch. 

I also taught two teens who were struggling to catch anything, one ended up catching 2 perch and a trout, the other one perch; their mothers were very thankful (single moms).

 

Everything was released.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Enthalpic

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Good for you! Glad you got out in nature and helped others to enjoy it too. Nothing like a kid catching their first few fish.

 

[Grumpy Pants + 35]

This too shall pass. 

This is the problem when the media overblows things, it leads to people creating even more fantastical ideas to explain things. The truth is far more simple: we can save lives, slow the spread, dramatically decrease the burden on our health care systems if we follow some relatively simple measures. We can see examples worldwide of how well this has worked, even without draconian measures - so long as you have a public that follows them. It's sad to see both the Democrats (who indeed want to show the pandemic in the worst light) and the Republicans (who want to make it seem like the administration did a bang up job, or that social restrictions are an attack on the people) again politicize a disaster to the detriment of the people. 

This too shall pass. A vaccine will come, we will learn to live with the virus and protect our elderly.  The hysteria from the extremes will find new stories to tell once they realize wearing a mask and limiting social gatherings wasn't a conspiracy from the government to control them. 

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Pants said:

This too shall pass. A vaccine will come, we will learn to live with the virus and protect our elderly.  The hysteria from the extremes will find new stories to tell once they realize wearing a mask and limiting social gatherings wasn't a conspiracy from the government to control them.

Actually, I think that the trend is in the other direction.  The trend is towards more control and monitoring of the masses.  Remember China before the Wuhan Covid thing.  Americans and many in the world demonized their monitoring of citizens, digital money, and strict dictates.  Now, most western countries, especially Australia and New Zealand, are just like China at that time.  Event 201 on October 18th, 2019 by The World Economic Forum and the Bill Gates Foundation specifically vocalized the measures that we see now (censorship, lockdowns, restrictions, mandates, monitoring and spying on citizens, technocratic control grids, etc.)  The same group have put forth the agenda for the future with "The Great Reset" and it is happening as I type.

So, the trend is not going back to normal.  Not ever. 

Remember in mid March when U.S. restrictions were starting to be applied?   We all thought that this will be short lived...maybe a month or two.  No, the trend is towards more control.

Coronavirus Vaccine - For about two decades, researchers have tried to make a coronavirus vaccine.  They haven't been successful.  The vaccines ended up killing the animals.  There is, at best, a 1% chance that they will develop a SAFE and EFFECTIVE vaccine for the coronavirus...which by that time will have mutated just like the Flu.

The trend won't change, not unless vast numbers of people do some serious uncensored research and speak out. 

Read what Belgium Doctors say...  https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter

August 1st, more than 1.3 million demonstrators in Berlin spoke out against the Covid mandates.  (The number was verified by the police)

August 29th, a much larger crowd of peaceful demonstrators gathered in Berlin to oppose dictatorial control.  From aerial photographs the number count via the grid method was between 1.3 million to 3 million (trees blocked the count numbers).  Robert F Kennedy, Jr. spoke.  What he says is spot on.

 

1.  

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

The nazis and others like them demonstrated it's far more effective to control a population with fear than any other method.  This is all about control, all about fear and ultimately all about power. 

Quote

• Bill Powers
   
  September 5, 2020 at 3:53 pm

  “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the urge to rule it.” – H. L. Mencken

   
  • David A
     
    September 6, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    And much further back in time;”Such is the nature of the Tyrant, when he first appears he is a protector.”
    Plato.

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Ward Smith
Added apropos comments from article

[Grumpy Pants + 35]

36 minutes ago, Tom Nolan said:

 

Coronavirus Vaccine - For about two decades, researchers have tried to make a coronavirus vaccine.  They haven't been successful.  The vaccines ended up killing the animals.  There is, at best, a 1% chance that they will develop a SAFE and EFFECTIVE vaccine for the coronavirus...which by that time will have mutated just like the Flu.

 

I'll just quote this for you so in 6 months you can end up realizing how outrageous it sounds. Actually, it sounds outrageous right now, considering there are dozens of vaccines that have shown safety and effectiveness in animals and are now showing similar safety in humans. 

There is a trend towards more monitoring of populations - it's been happening for decades now. It's a real issue. The NSA (or local equivalent) has been able to read your emails and listen in on your phone calls for quite some time now. To tie this into an anti-vaccine doctrine, or a "covid is a hoax" idea is not based in fact. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Pants said:

This too shall pass. 

This is the problem when the media overblows things, it leads to people creating even more fantastical ideas to explain things. The truth is far more simple: we can save lives, slow the spread, dramatically decrease the burden on our health care systems if we follow some relatively simple measures. We can see examples worldwide of how well this has worked, even without draconian measures - so long as you have a public that follows them. It's sad to see both the Democrats (who indeed want to show the pandemic in the worst light) and the Republicans (who want to make it seem like the administration did a bang up job, or that social restrictions are an attack on the people) again politicize a disaster to the detriment of the people. 

This too shall pass. A vaccine will come, we will learn to live with the virus and protect our elderly.  The hysteria from the extremes will find new stories to tell once they realize wearing a mask and limiting social gatherings wasn't a conspiracy from the government to control them. 

[Grumpy Pants + 35]

7 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

??? Care to elaborate?

Should I guess that you are establishing that death and positivity rates are down significantly from April highs? Yes indeed. Your point? 

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Pants said:

I'll just quote this for you so in 6 months you can end up realizing how outrageous it sounds. Actually, it sounds outrageous right now, considering there are dozens of vaccines that have shown safety and effectiveness in animals and are now showing similar safety in humans. 

There is a trend towards more monitoring of populations - it's been happening for decades now. It's a real issue. The NSA (or local equivalent) has been able to read your emails and listen in on your phone calls for quite some time now. To tie this into an anti-vaccine doctrine, or a "covid is a hoax" idea is not based in fact. 

Grumpy Pants,

I would LOVE for you to prove me wrong.  I will send you a check for $100 in the mail in March 2021 if things around the world are back to normal like they were in March 2019.  That’s a promise. 

 

Grumpy, Find any coronavirus vaccine study from the past 20 years that has proven to be safe for humans.  They certainly tried, repeatedly, especially after the 2003-2004 SARS Coronavirus.  I don’t know where you found the study, because I have not seen it.  I have seen the studies which detail how animals died when exposed to a coronavirus after a vaccine.

Please show me the “randomized, double-blind placebo studies”.  This is the gold standard for scientific evidence.   

 

Just so you know…

For any of the 72 vaccine doses added to the mandatory childhood schedule since Dr. Anthony Fauci took over NIAID in 1984, there has never been ANY “randomized, double-blind placebo studies”. 

Most all the studies compare the vaccine to another vaccine, and they are EXTREMELY short term studies, never ever looking at long term safety factors over a period of years.  It becomes very evil not to do a long term study on a vaccine compared to a non-vaccinated group.

 

A large team of attorneys filed a (FOIA) Freedom of Information Act Lawsuit to the various U.S. Health Agencies asking for

any “randomized, double-blind placebo studies” on the 72 vaccine list.  THERE ARE NONE. 

In fact, Del Bigtree and Robert F Kennedy, Jr. sat down for three hours with Dr. Fauci and the head of the CDC, Robert Redfield,

and asked them personally.  There are none.  No government agency has any, because they have never been done. 

 

This is the gold standard for scientific SAFE & EFFECTIVE evidence: a “randomized, double-blind placebo study”.     

Here is a 2 minute clip where Dr. Fauci speaks like a snake about “randomized, double-blind placebo studies”.

 

The data collection about you and everyone is being farmed right now by Google, Facebook, and any APP on your phone.  This will be connected to your ID and Digital Money and Medical passport.  Watch this…  We are in the BioSecurity Era.

 

[Grumpy Pants + 35]

Tom, 

I see you've been studying your anti-vax bible.

Sadly, you've probably made up your mind on this so I won't waste my time trying to show you all the reasons why randomized, double blind placebo trials in vaccines are challenging and have ethical concerns. Despite this, truly there is a gold standard achieved;  meta-analysis studies that have complete scientific consensus on the efficacy of vaccinations. Also see eradication of numerous diseases. But again, I know you have made up your mind on this, so it's also sad I've wasted my time writing this response. 

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

59 minutes ago, Grumpy Pants said:

Tom, 

I see you've been studying your anti-vax bible.

Sadly, you've probably made up your mind on this so I won't waste my time trying to show you all the reasons why randomized, double blind placebo trials in vaccines are challenging and have ethical concerns. Despite this, truly there is a gold standard achieved;  meta-analysis studies that have complete scientific consensus on the efficacy of vaccinations. Also see eradication of numerous diseases. But again, I know you have made up your mind on this, so it's also sad I've wasted my time writing this response. 

It is not a difficult task to do a meta-analysis of vaccinated vs unvaccinated with all the data that the CDC has. 

And WE KNOW that the CDC has a long history of lying and being in bed with Big-Pharma.  Ask Merck's Julie Gerberding, once head of the CDC who deliberately had Merck vaccine safety studies destroyed and shredded...but a top CDC scientist saved copies and exposed her.  He still works there.  She profited millions of dollars.  I guess you support that kind of "research" which CDC does?   In fact, Gerberding testified a month or so back about Merck's upcoming Covid vaccine...I am sure that you want to take her company's vaccine.

I see that you have NOT looked into the science studies themselves, and that you are completely unwilling to actually research the topic with no bias.  If you do not look, then you will not see.

 

 

Here is a list of some of the ingredients you will find in vaccines…

Mercury

 Aluminum

 Antibiotics

 Egg protein

 Formaldehyde

 Monosodium glutamate (MSG)

 Squalene

 Gelatin

 Polysorbate 80

 Aborted human fetal tissue

 

On the aborted fetus… They have to harvest live organs.

 If the fetus is dead, then the organs are of no value.

It is not uncommon to induce labor on a 5 or 6 or 7 month old fetus.

 While the fetus is still alive…

 …while the heart is pumping…

 …they will cut out its heart or its brain…with no anesthesia.

 (12 minute mark)

 

The January 2020 study “Influenza vaccination and respiratory virus interference among Department of Defense personnel during the 2017-2018 influenza season” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31607599/

 After the link, to the right is a box “PMC Full Text Free”. The pdf is available.

 Go to TABLE 5.

 

From Table 5…

Of 677 people who got a coronavirus

 170 – No Flu vaccine

 507 – Flu vaccine

 

Of those 677 people, what percentage did NOT receive the Flu shot? 25%

 Of those 677 people who got coronavirus, what percentage previously got a Flu vaccine? 75%

 

This means that 3 out of every 4 people who got a coronavirus, previously got a Flu vaccine.

 

On average, would a person have a greater chance of getting a coronavirus with? …or without? …a flu shot.

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Tom Nolan

[Grumpy Pants + 35]

Tom, 

I mean, points for having a lot of time on your hands. 

Points taken away for linking to a study that clearly supports vaccination. to quote from the Wolff study in Vaccine you linked to: 

"The overall results of the study showed little to no evidence supporting the association of virus interference and influenza vaccination. Individual respiratory virus results were mixed, and some rebutted virus interference. Additionally those receiving the influenza vaccine were more likely to have no pathogen detected and reduced risk of influenza when compared to unvaccinated individuals."

There was a link between a positive coronavirus  detection (not necessarily illness) in this study, but not in another similar study. Very casual link, at best. This really has nothing to do with any point I've made, and the rest of the youtube videos you've linked to are easily debunked. You seek "gold standard" studies but then link to a published study that shows strong support for vaccination, and youtube videos 😅😄

Edited September 22, 2020 by Grumpy Pants

[Wombat + 1,028]

8 hours ago, Grumpy Pants said:

Tom, 

I see you've been studying your anti-vax bible.

Sadly, you've probably made up your mind on this so I won't waste my time trying to show you all the reasons why randomized, double blind placebo trials in vaccines are challenging and have ethical concerns. Despite this, truly there is a gold standard achieved;  meta-analysis studies that have complete scientific consensus on the efficacy of vaccinations. Also see eradication of numerous diseases. But again, I know you have made up your mind on this, so it's also sad I've wasted my time writing this response. 

Grumpy, most people I know here in Australia don't trust the vaccines for some reason. I doubt they have given up on science, I think that nobody trusts the govt any more. Hardly surprising. The more lockdowns and the more govt peddling of the vaccines, the more push-back there is. People just want to be free to take their chances and have control of their own health. It is a human rights issue, not a medical issue. The idea that a vaccine will only "work" if 100% of the pop'n get the jab is far too cute on the part of the global govt. It either works or it doesn't. Personally, I am happy to be amongst the first to receive it when it arrives, but not if it is compulsory. Then I would fight the govt tooth and nail.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, Grumpy Pants said:

Tom, 

I mean, points for having a lot of time on your hands. 

Points taken away for linking to a study that clearly supports vaccination. to quote from the Wolff study in Vaccine you linked to: 

"The overall results of the study showed little to no evidence supporting the association of virus interference and influenza vaccination. Individual respiratory virus results were mixed, and some rebutted virus interference. Additionally those receiving the influenza vaccine were more likely to have no pathogen detected and reduced risk of influenza when compared to unvaccinated individuals."

There was a link between a positive coronavirus  detection (not necessarily illness) in this study, but not in another similar study. Very casual link, at best. This really has nothing to do with any point I've made, and the rest of the youtube videos you've linked to are easily debunked. You seek "gold standard" studies but then link to a published study that shows strong support for vaccination, and youtube videos 😅😄

There are "vaccines" and there's vaccines. The polio vaccine is a case in point. Polio came from a virus and there's one polio vaccine (two if you discriminate between oral and shot). Oddly, even though polio virus is RNA based, and hence doesn't have the error correction of DNA, hence is susceptible to mutation, they don't change the vaccine every year. Why is that?

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 9/22/2020 at 11:49 AM, Wombat said:

Grumpy, most people I know here in Australia don't trust the vaccines for some reason. I doubt they have given up on science, I think that nobody trusts the govt any more. Hardly surprising. The more lockdowns and the more govt peddling of the vaccines, the more push-back there is. People just want to be free to take their chances and have control of their own health. It is a human rights issue, not a medical issue. The idea that a vaccine will only "work" if 100% of the pop'n get the jab is far too cute on the part of the global govt. It either works or it doesn't. Personally, I am happy to be amongst the first to receive it when it arrives, but not if it is compulsory. Then I would fight the govt tooth and nail.

Hey Wombat.  I absolutely agree with you.  People are begging for independant medicine and science to take control of this Covid affair, and for the government to hand it over completely, except for a monitoring and compliance role.  Intra-Bureau and Inter-Bureau infighting in the U.S. has produced a constant ever-changing barrage of questionable information and guidelines.that shift each time one of the bureaus wants to outshine the other bureau, etc.

Your next few lines struck me, not relation to the virus (which I agree with) but in relation to our whole health care fiasco.  Apparently, Americans by and large want to have a voice and a choice in their health care maintenance and their insurance providers.  Apparently, mandatory insurance even rubs a great many people the wrong way.  Thanks for this point, it helps me understand a nuance of the healthcare debate (fiasco) in my own country.

"It either works or it doesn't."  Great point.  At this point in time many people don't want anything that even sounds or smells like it might be an unsurety.

I am not sure about taking a dose myself, and I'm further concerned about what country's vaccination, depending where one lives (i.e. home country or not), will be reliable and which won't, or which we simply have no fxxxxing idea if it will work or kill us.  This was supposed to be what WHO was created for.  Sort of a quality control/assurance system, but they stay out of situations that can lead to bias and/or graft and outright fraud.  The WHO has a lot of explaining to do as do a whole lot of National agencies that also seem to have lost their focus.  WHO failed and is still failing in these regards.  For the U.S. the CDC showed very limited and questionable readiness, and I consider that a huge failure.

Cheers.

Edited September 25, 2020 by Dan Warnick
unsurety