China Sets Its Sights On Global [EV, AI, CRISPR, Fusion, Navel Lint Collector] Dominance

[Meredith Poor + 883]

At some point, the 'China sets it's sights on dominating...' gets old. Of course they are. China's government wants to dominate everything. Good luck with that.

[Hotone + 412]

17 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

At some point, the 'China sets it's sights on dominating...' gets old. Of course they are. China's government wants to dominate everything. Good luck with that.

Don't worry, their dual circulation policy means that they may keep the products within China and not flood other countries with their exports.  

[BLA + 1,666]

On 10/27/2020 at 3:14 PM, Meredith Poor said:

At some point, the 'China sets it's sights on dominating...' gets old. Of course they are. China's government wants to dominate everything. Good luck with that.

Hunter Biden's hedge fund owns a 49% interest with the CCP at 51% of the Navel Lint Collector Chinese start up.

Edited October 30, 2020 by BLA

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, Hotone said:

Don't worry, their dual circulation policy means that they may keep the products within China and not flood other countries with their exports.  

Convenient way to blow past copyrights.  Just reverse engineer (steal) everything, but sell it domestically so the (lack of a) legal system and limited recognition of international courts/laws protects them.  They've been doing this for decades, starting with music, but now it has moved to include jet engines, airplanes and every other imaginable product.  It costs Billions of $$ to develop new aircraft and aircraft engines, so it really bites when they steal and reap the benefits without the R & D.

But, other than that, it's fine.

[shadowkin + 584]

What is the point of your topic? It sounds like you shot this off at 2 am after an all day bender.

[Meredith Poor + 883]

10 hours ago, shadowkin said:

What is the point of your topic? It sounds like you shot this off at 2 am after an all day bender.

Some of the blog posts on the main site start expounding on China's latest plans, as articulated by the CCP or Chairman XiMao. Most of this is like Chinese real estate ventures: impressive on the outside and 'see through' on the inside - there's no substance. China has, at various times, asserted they are going to pour money and talent into AI, or space exploration, or electric cars, or renewable energy. On the RE front, companies in China are selling solar panels for 16 cents to 20 cents per watt - very impressive. No one is buying Chinese wind turbines, although I have no doubt they're available if someone asks. CATL says they have a Lithium-Ion battery that can be recharged 15,000 times - 15,000 / 360 days = 42 years. 40 years from now we'll know whether it's true.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

5 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

Some of the blog posts on the main site start expounding on China's latest plans, as articulated by the CCP or Chairman XiMao. Most of this is like Chinese real estate ventures: impressive on the outside and 'see through' on the inside - there's no substance. China has, at various times, asserted they are going to pour money and talent into AI, or space exploration, or electric cars, or renewable energy. On the RE front, companies in China are selling solar panels for 16 cents to 20 cents per watt - very impressive. No one is buying Chinese wind turbines, although I have no doubt they're available if someone asks. CATL says they have a Lithium-Ion battery that can be recharged 15,000 times - 15,000 / 360 days = 42 years. 40 years from now we'll know whether it's true.

There seems to be a common denominator here, @Meredith Poor.....My peanut is trying to work it out but, being the idiot that I apparently am, I just can't put my finger on it.

[Hotone + 412]

14 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Convenient way to blow past copyrights.  Just reverse engineer (steal) everything, but sell it domestically so the (lack of a) legal system and limited recognition of international courts/laws protects them.  They've been doing this for decades, starting with music, but now it has moved to include jet engines, airplanes and every other imaginable product.  It costs Billions of $$ to develop new aircraft and aircraft engines, so it really bites when they steal and reap the benefits without the R & D.

But, other than that, it's fine.

Your views are a bit outdated.  There has been a gradual strengthening  intellectual property rights (IPR) in China for some time.  China doesn’t want to be the low-cost manufacturer of other countries’ inventions, competing on low-wage labor. They want to be the innovative country. To do that, you need to respect IP rights. 

Since 2016, more patent applications were filled within China than received at the US, Japan, Korea, and European patent offices combined.  In that year, China was also the third largest filer of international patents behind the USA and Japan.  Moreover, rapid changes in the Chinese legal system, has made it an attractive venue for IP litigation.  Foreigners win more than 80% of the cases that they bring to the Chinese IP courts.  However, there is criticism that the penalties and enforcement are weak, but these are being addressed.

https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/05/07/rapid-changes-chinese-legal-system-attractive-venue-ip-litigation/id=96099/

Since last year, China has already overtaken the US as the top filer of international patents. https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2020/article_0005.html

There is no indication that China had managed to steal the intellectual property for making jet engines.  They have tried to acquire technology by buying foreign firms such as Canada's Bombardier or Ukraine’s Motor Sich, but have been blocked by America say every turn.  

I used to have a good reason to look down on the Chinese, but I hope you won't underestimate them like I did.  In 1997, I was involved in delivering one of the first Western software projects in China.  After the system went live, the customer has the most basic maintenance and support plan, and they didn't have money to pay for additional services.  So to get our engineers to go on site, they used to crash the system by e.g. pulling out the power plug.   Anyways, that European company that I worked for collapsed in 2000 during the dot-com bust.  That Chinese company that used or software is now listed on the HK stock exchange and worth a few hundred billion US dollars.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 hour ago, Hotone said:

Your views are a bit outdated.  There has been a gradual strengthening  intellectual property rights (IPR) in China for some time.  China doesn’t want to be the low-cost manufacturer of other countries’ inventions, competing on low-wage labor. They want to be the innovative country. To do that, you need to respect IP rights. 

Since 2016, more patent applications were filled within China than received at the US, Japan, Korea, and European patent offices combined.  In that year, China was also the third largest filer of international patents behind the USA and Japan.  Moreover, rapid changes in the Chinese legal system, has made it an attractive venue for IP litigation.  Foreigners win more than 80% of the cases that they bring to the Chinese IP courts.  However, there is criticism that the penalties and enforcement are weak, but these are being addressed.

https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/05/07/rapid-changes-chinese-legal-system-attractive-venue-ip-litigation/id=96099/

Since last year, China has already overtaken the US as the top filer of international patents. https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2020/article_0005.html

There is no indication that China had managed to steal the intellectual property for making jet engines.  They have tried to acquire technology by buying foreign firms such as Canada's Bombardier or Ukraine’s Motor Sich, but have been blocked by America say every turn.  

I used to have a good reason to look down on the Chinese, but I hope you won't underestimate them like I did.  In 1997, I was involved in delivering one of the first Western software projects in China.  After the system went live, the customer has the most basic maintenance and support plan, and they didn't have money to pay for additional services.  So to get our engineers to go on site, they used to crash the system by e.g. pulling out the power plug.   Anyways, that European company that I worked for collapsed in 2000 during the dot-com bust.  That Chinese company that used or software is now listed on the HK stock exchange and worth a few hundred billion US dollars.

Where do you cut and paste your comments from?  Just curious, because you sound like a completely brainwashed person incapable of your own thoughts, gleefully spewing propaganda forth as if it is reality.  For example, which "Chinese company that used or software is now listed on the HK stock exchange and worth a few hundred billion US dollars" are you talking about?  Let's take a look:

Hong Kong Top Companies List by Market Cap as on Jan 1st, 2020

Not even the 1st one has achieved "worth a few hundred billion US dollars" status.

You say "I used to have a good reason to look down on the Chinese, but I hope you won't underestimate them like I did."  What drivel.  Can you say Wuomaoding propaganda line?

Then you say you were "involved" in "delivering" one of the first Western software projects in China.  Really?  Which one?  What company?  If they are no longer in existence, you should have no problem naming them here and now.

But your entire comment is just so much hearsay and utter bullshit, like almost all of what you offer up on here, that it is not worth breaking down any further.

You are a bot or some other tool of the Chinese propaganda machine, and I am through with you.  I suggest that the moderators block you from further participation, but that is their business.  For my part, you are now blocked.  Have a good day, comrade.

[Hotone + 412]

48 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Where do you cut and paste your comments from?  Just curious, because you sound like a completely brainwashed person incapable of your own thoughts, gleefully spewing propaganda forth as if it is reality.  For example, which "Chinese company that used or software is now listed on the HK stock exchange and worth a few hundred billion US dollars" are you talking about?  Let's take a look:

Hong Kong Top Companies List by Market Cap as on Jan 1st, 2020

Not even the 1st one has achieved "worth a few hundred billion US dollars" status.

You say "I used to have a good reason to look down on the Chinese, but I hope you won't underestimate them like I did."  What drivel.  Can you say Wuomaoding propaganda line?

Then you say you were "involved" in "delivering" one of the first Western software projects in China.  Really?  Which one?  What company?  If they are no longer in existence, you should have no problem naming them here and now.

But your entire comment is just so much hearsay and utter bullshit, like almost all of what you offer up on here, that it is not worth breaking down any further.

You are a bot or some other tool of the Chinese propaganda machine, and I am through with you.  I suggest that the moderators block you from further participation, but that is their business.  For my part, you are now blocked.  Have a good day, comrade.

My mistake HK Dollars not US Dollars, slip of the mind. 😖 Don't get so upset. It's all true.  

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/0762.HK?p=0762.HK&.tsrc=fin-srch

Edited October 28, 2020 by Hotone

[Rob Plant + 2,610]

3 hours ago, Hotone said:

Your views are a bit outdated.  There has been a gradual strengthening  intellectual property rights (IPR) in China for some time.  China doesn’t want to be the low-cost manufacturer of other countries’ inventions, competing on low-wage labor. They want to be the innovative country. To do that, you need to respect IP rights. 

Unfortunately because of the political system that runs China invention and "thinking outside the box" are completely alien to people in China.

Please name me the last really useful invention that came out of China? I'm going for gunpowder circa 1300AD

Please dont tell me electric cigarettes and the like, as I said really useful!

[Hotone + 412]

12 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Unfortunately because of the political system that runs China invention and "thinking outside the box" are completely alien to people in China.

Please name me the last really useful invention that came out of China? I'm going for gunpowder circa 1300AD

Please dont tell me electric cigarettes and the like, as I said really useful!

But you don't know how they do it these days. 

Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration, and the Chinese can provide 110% perspiration.  The remaining 1%, they can get from hiring foreigners or Chinese who have lived and worked in the West.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Hotone

[Rob Plant + 2,610]

6 minutes ago, Hotone said:

But you don't know how they do it these days. 

Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration, and the Chinese can provide 110% perspiration.  The remaining 1%, they can get from hiring foreigners or Chinese who have lived and worked in the West.

So basically back to stealing innovation from the West

You've made my point for me very well!

[Hotone + 412]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

So basically back to stealing innovation from the West

You've made my point for me very well!

Not steal.  Own.  When you have money, you will own people.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/chinas-billionaires-see-biggest-gains-ever-fueled-by-ipos.html

At 4 trillion dollars, these guys are worth more than the GDP of Germany.

But if you want to know about China's Digital innovation, listen to this interview with Jonathan Woetzel.  It's a couple of years old, but still relevant

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Hotone

[Rob Plant + 2,610]

3 minutes ago, Hotone said:

Not steal.  Own.  When you have money, you will own people.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/chinas-billionaires-see-biggest-gains-ever-fueled-by-ipos.html

Owning someone else's invention is not inventing its called buying!

You stated this"They want to be the innovative country."

I'm afraid they're gonna be disappointed

Yes they may buy up all the innovation and innovative talent as they have deep pockets, but that isnt what you stated.

I would suggest buying the talent is the secret long term for China, buying the innovation means they will forever be behind the competition as tech moves on apace.

[Hotone + 412]

22 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Owning someone else's invention is not inventing its called buying!

You stated this"They want to be the innovative country."

I'm afraid they're gonna be disappointed

Yes they may buy up all the innovation and innovative talent as they have deep pockets, but that isnt what you stated.

I would suggest buying the talent is the secret long term for China, buying the innovation means they will forever be behind the competition as tech moves on apace.

You are partly right, but miss the point. Take e.g. the transistor.  It was invented by Americans, but it was the Japanese who took this American invention and turned it into all the consumer electronics products in the 1980's and reaped most of the benefit.

America is good at making breakthrough inventions, but today China is very good in producing follow-through small innovations that become useful products.  Listen to the interview in my previous post.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Hotone

[Hotone + 412]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Owning someone else's invention is not inventing its called buying!

You stated this"They want to be the innovative country."

I'm afraid they're gonna be disappointed

Yes they may buy up all the innovation and innovative talent as they have deep pockets, but that isnt what you stated.

I would suggest buying the talent is the secret long term for China, buying the innovation means they will forever be behind the competition as tech moves on apace.

Of course, they buy up talent; that is what I meant by Owning People in my previous post. 

Their preferred way to grow is knowledge and technology transfer, which allow them to innovate and produce better products.  This is e.g. how they become able to produce arguably the best high speed trains.  It wasn't just buying a product and a design from the Europeans, but along with that they obtained the IP,  and the know how to design, build and operate HSR.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Hotone

[Rob Plant + 2,610]

15 hours ago, Hotone said:

Of course, they buy up talent; that is what I meant by Owning People in my previous post. 

Their preferred way to grow is knowledge and technology transfer, which allow them to innovate and produce better products.  This is e.g. how they become able to produce arguably the best high speed trains.  It wasn't just buying a product and a design from the Europeans, but along with that they obtained the IP,  and the know how to design, build and operate HSR.

Wouldnt it be nice if they could actually invent things for themselves and that benefit the rest of the world though

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Wouldnt it be nice if they could actually invent things for themselves and that benefit the rest of the world though

If the system is set up correctly, and I have no reason to believe they are not genuinely trying to make it so, the Chinese people are fully capable of innovating and inventing, etc.  I have met many U.S. physicians working in Chinese hospitals and with Chinese specialists in everything from tumor reductions and removals to combined therapy cancer treatments (Chinese and Western, mixed together to enhance the treatments while lessoning the suffering of the patient, and curing certain types that were previously not curable in the West).  My first wife was a doctor fresh out of medical school!  They have the experience of decades of joint ventures making computer chips and everything else, all the way to complete computers, large and small, steel factories, cars, planes, trains, dams and on and on.  The Chinese engineering schools are doing their best to catch up with the West and I am sure they take loads of experience and knowledge from all the reverse engineering they do.  There are just a lot of areas that i would not write them off in.  They will get there, sector by sector, year by year.

Having said all of that, I don't know of any breakthrough tech or products that have been introduced or accepted in the rest of the world, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

Not defending them, just stating some things I'm aware of.

[Hotone + 412]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Wouldnt it be nice if they could actually invent things for themselves and that benefit the rest of the world though

Depends on what you consider as an invention.  E.g. one of the key inventions for 5G is 'Polar Codes' which is a new approach to maximizing the rate and reliability of data transmission.  'Polar Codes' is invented by the Turkish professor Dr Erdal Arikan, who published an academic paper in 2008.  Huawei picked up on his research and developed the commercial products for which they own the Standard Essential Patents (SEP).  So this is not a Huawei invention per se, but without Huawei it would never have become a commercial product.  Instead, the older WiFi product, which is not as efficient, would have been adopted for the 5G control plane.

https://disruptive.asia/huawei-polar-codes-inventor/#:~:text=Huawei also says polar codes,improve coding performance for 5G.

Huawei (used to) fund research at a lot of universities all over the world.  Multiply the approach that they took for Polar Codes, (together with other internal R&D) and you have a company that filed the most patents in Europe in 2019. 

https://www.androidheadlines.com/2020/03/huawei-filed-the-largest-number-of-european-patents-in-2019.html/amp

https://www.universityworldnews.com/post-mobile.php?story=20200716121936610

China has already surpassed the U.S. in spending on the later stage of R&D that turns discoveries into commercial products, a few years ago.  You can say that the US is inventing the ideas  and China (and Korea and Japan) is converting the ideas into new useable products.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/04/17/why-china-beating-us-innovation/100016138/

Edited October 29, 2020 by Hotone

[Marcin2 + 724]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:14 PM, Meredith Poor said:

At some point, the 'China sets it's sights on dominating...' gets old. Of course they are. China's government wants to dominate everything. Good luck with that.

Their good luck ( actually it is a strategy) is our problem.

I cannot name any industry that China has not dominated after reaching technological parity.

They have huge upside of the largest consumer market for goods and second largest market for services (after US).

Their economies of scale cannot be met by any other country

[Marcin2 + 724]

On 10/28/2020 at 5:06 PM, Rob Plant said:

Unfortunately because of the political system that runs China invention and "thinking outside the box" are completely alien to people in China.

Please name me the last really useful invention that came out of China? I'm going for gunpowder circa 1300AD

Please dont tell me electric cigarettes and the like, as I said really useful!

It is really dangerous how people keep underestimating China. Soviet Union was the great proof that democracy is not prerequisite to new inventions and scientific development (unfortunately I suppose). Modern Chinese have much more civil liberties thant Russians had under their totalitarian regime. Besides in current open world a lot of can be reverse engineered provided you have large budget and talent pool. And China has both. Once they learned how to manufacture soar panel in a few years they make 80% of them. The same is with any product, provided that they mastered the technology. You simply cannot compete with 1.4 billion consumer market + top exporter of nearly everything.

[RichieRich216 + 454]

China needs to be held accountable for the Bio-Weapon they released to the WORLD 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 10/28/2020 at 2:58 AM, Hotone said:

There is no indication that China had managed to steal the intellectual property for making jet engines.  They have tried to acquire technology by buying foreign firms such as Canada's Bombardier or Ukraine’s Motor Sich, but have been blocked by America say every turn.  

There are documented attempts but I don't know if any actually succeeded. 

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-ge-engineer-and-chinese-businessman-charged-economic-espionage-and-theft-ge-s-trade

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

4 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

It is really dangerous how people keep underestimating China. Soviet Union was the great proof that democracy is not prerequisite to new inventions and scientific development (unfortunately I suppose). Modern Chinese have much more civil liberties thant Russians had under their totalitarian regime. Besides in current open world a lot of can be reverse engineered provided you have large budget and talent pool. And China has both. Once they learned how to manufacture soar panel in a few years they make 80% of them. The same is with any product, provided that they mastered the technology. You simply cannot compete with 1.4 billion consumer market + top exporter of nearly everything.

Very true about underestimating. The trade ascent of China was welcomed by Western (esp. US) countries. The US wanted free trade under free market conditions, China wanted managed incoming and free outgoing trade, China got what it wanted and the rest of the world is adjusting to the new reality. I see managed trade coming from everyone for the forceable future. It won't be like the cold war era, just much less free-wheeling than recent history, every cross border business deal will be looked at like 3D chess. The old environment is gone we'll see how it goes from here.