Dan Warnick

U.S. Presidential Elections Status - Electoral Votes

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In this blast from the past, The Hill ran the following article back in 2016.  Wow, what a difference in reporting, then vs now!  It also makes it pretty clear it is not only Dominion machines that are manipulatable. 

Can the 2016 election be rigged? You bet

Donald Trumptrumpdonald_070117getty.jpg?itok=YIP2hsPhas said publicly that he fears the next election will be rigged. Based both on technical capability and recent history, Trump’s concerns are not unfounded.

A recent study by Stanford University proved that Hillary Clinton’s campaign rigged the system to steal the nomination from Bernie Sanders.

What was done to Bernie Sanders in Wisconsin is stunning.

Why would the Clintons not cheat again?

The issue here is both voter fraud, which is limited but does happen, and election theft through the manipulation of the computerized voting machines, particularly the DIEBOLD/PES voting machines in wide usage in most states.

POLITICO profiled a Princeton professor — who has demonstrated how the electronic voting machines that are most widely used can be hacked in five minutes or less! Robert Fitrakis Professor of Political Science in the Social and Behavioral Sciences Department at Columbus State Community College has written a must-read book on the strip and flip technique used to rig these machines. Professor Fitrakis is a Green Party activist.

A computer hacker showed CBS how to vote multiple times using a simple $15.00 electronic device.

To be very clear both parties have engaged in this skullduggery and it is the party in power in each state that has custody of the machines and control of their programing. This year, the results of machines in Pennsylvania, Virginia and Ohio, where Governor John Kasich controls the machines, must be matched with exit polls, for example.

Illinois is another obvious state where Trump has been running surprisingly strong, in what has become a Blue state. Does anyone trust Mayor Rahm Emanuel, a longtime Clinton hatchet man. not to monkey with the machines? I don’t. He was using City funded Community groups to recruit anti-Trump “protestors” who posed such a threat to public safety the Trump Chicago event was canceled when the Secret Service couldn’t guarantee his safety.

How do the pols of both parties do it?  As easy as determining, on the basis of honest polling, who is going to win. Then, if it isn’t your candidate, simply have the votes for the other guy be given to your guy and vice versa. You keep the total vote the same. This is where the “strip and flip” technique described by Professor Fitrakis comes in.

Maybe you don’t need all the votes the other guy was going to get. If you have a plan in mind involving votes and their redistribution, you can find a programmer who can design the machine instructions to produce that outcome.  Or you can hack the machine you are voting in with that $15 device that you can get at BEST BUY.

Europe has rejected electronic voting machines because they are untrustworthy. This is not a secret. The media continues a drum beat insisting voter fraud is non existent without ever addressing the more ominous question of manipulation of the voting machines.  It keeps those in control in control.

Additionally some states still use machines that include no paper trail. The "evidence” is destroyed. Florida’s machines have no paper trail in Bush v. Gore.

In Europe, they use exit polling to determine who won and lost. The tabulated vote only serves as a formal verification. But that is done with paper ballots and hand counts under supervision, the way we used to do it.

Here’s the recipe now:

(1) Publish a poll contrived to suggest the result you are going to bring about.

(2) Manipulate the machines to bring about precisely your desired outcome.

As someone with great sentimental attachment to the Republican Party, as I joined as the party of Goldwater, both parties have engaged in voting machine manipulation. Nowhere in the country has this been more true than Wisconsin, where there are strong indications that Scott Walker and the Reince Priebus machine rigged as many as five elections including the defeat of a Walker recall election.

Mathematician and voting statistic expert Richard Charnin has produced a compelling study by comparing polling to actual results and exit polls to make a compelling case for voting machine manipulation in the Badger state.   

When the Trump vs. Cruz primary took place, the same pattern emerged again of a Marquette University poll showing a 20 point shift from Trump ahead by 10% to Trump behind by 10%, which was simply absurd. Shifts like that don’t happen over brief intervals of time, absent a nuclear explosion. It didn’t make any sense — unless you knew what was going on was an “instant replay” of Walker’s victories. The machine Priebus built was delivering for Cruz big time.

Today, the polling industry has been reported to be “in a state of crisis” because they are altering their samples to favor Hillary. The Reuters poll actually got busted for oversampling Democrats in order to inflate Hillary’s lead. We even had the absurdity of a Gallup poll proclaiming that 51% of those who had heard Trump’s speech were less likely to vote for him, which was endlessly repeated by the shills at MSNBC.

I predicted that Trump would lead in the polls after his highly successful convention (despite the media frenzy over the non-issue of a Melania Trump staffer plagiarizing a handful of words). In fact, post convention polling for the Trump effort by pollster Tony Fabrizio in key swing states was encouraging. Perhaps this is why the establishment elites have gone into over-drive to attack Trump.

Hillary hasn’t exactly had smooth sailing. Julian Assange of Wikileaks said he had inconvertible proof that as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton armed Isis LINK. The IRS has opened an investigation to the Clinton Foundation and it’s many offshoots, and Hillary got caught lying about what FBI Director Comey did say about her.  

But you will see less of Hillary’s problems in the mainstream media, which has gone completely overboard in its relentless, even hysterical, efforts to lambaste Trump and promote her. Every remotely objective commentator has been stunned. Trump will, however, have an opportunity to drive these points home in the debates.  

We are now living in a fake reality of constructed data and phony polls. The computerized voting machines can be hacked and rigged and after the experience of Bernie Sanders there is no reason to believe they won’t be. Don’t be taken in.

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1 minute ago, Enthalpic said:

Not bipolar.

You are getting off track; I am not the topic here.  I'm just the one who has been right all along and was therefore attacked by the perpetually wrong. 

I have to laugh at your thought processes at time's, the penguins were not meant to denote a geographical location. However since you went there i thought perhaps a small play in humor was in order...BI-POLAR? 

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3 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

I have to laugh at your thought processes at time's, the penguins were not meant to denote a geographical location. However since you went there i thought perhaps a small play in humor was in order...BI-POLAR? 

Sorry just thought it was a joke about a cold climate pot smoker.  I get your little joke now.

Edited by Enthalpic

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46 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

In this blast from the past, The Hill ran the following article back in 2016.  Wow, what a difference in reporting, then vs now!  It also makes it pretty clear it is not only Dominion machines that are manipulatable. 

Can the 2016 election be rigged? You bet

Donald Trumptrumpdonald_070117getty.jpg?itok=YIP2hsPhas said publicly that he fears the next election will be rigged. Based both on technical capability and recent history, Trump’s concerns are not unfounded.

A recent study by Stanford University proved that Hillary Clinton’s campaign rigged the system to steal the nomination from Bernie Sanders.

What was done to Bernie Sanders in Wisconsin is stunning.

Why would the Clintons not cheat again?

The issue here is both voter fraud, which is limited but does happen, and election theft through the manipulation of the computerized voting machines, particularly the DIEBOLD/PES voting machines in wide usage in most states.

POLITICO profiled a Princeton professor — who has demonstrated how the electronic voting machines that are most widely used can be hacked in five minutes or less! Robert Fitrakis Professor of Political Science in the Social and Behavioral Sciences Department at Columbus State Community College has written a must-read book on the strip and flip technique used to rig these machines. Professor Fitrakis is a Green Party activist.

A computer hacker showed CBS how to vote multiple times using a simple $15.00 electronic device.

To be very clear both parties have engaged in this skullduggery and it is the party in power in each state that has custody of the machines and control of their programing. This year, the results of machines in Pennsylvania, Virginia and Ohio, where Governor John Kasich controls the machines, must be matched with exit polls, for example.

Illinois is another obvious state where Trump has been running surprisingly strong, in what has become a Blue state. Does anyone trust Mayor Rahm Emanuel, a longtime Clinton hatchet man. not to monkey with the machines? I don’t. He was using City funded Community groups to recruit anti-Trump “protestors” who posed such a threat to public safety the Trump Chicago event was canceled when the Secret Service couldn’t guarantee his safety.

How do the pols of both parties do it?  As easy as determining, on the basis of honest polling, who is going to win. Then, if it isn’t your candidate, simply have the votes for the other guy be given to your guy and vice versa. You keep the total vote the same. This is where the “strip and flip” technique described by Professor Fitrakis comes in.

Maybe you don’t need all the votes the other guy was going to get. If you have a plan in mind involving votes and their redistribution, you can find a programmer who can design the machine instructions to produce that outcome.  Or you can hack the machine you are voting in with that $15 device that you can get at BEST BUY.

Europe has rejected electronic voting machines because they are untrustworthy. This is not a secret. The media continues a drum beat insisting voter fraud is non existent without ever addressing the more ominous question of manipulation of the voting machines.  It keeps those in control in control.

Additionally some states still use machines that include no paper trail. The "evidence” is destroyed. Florida’s machines have no paper trail in Bush v. Gore.

In Europe, they use exit polling to determine who won and lost. The tabulated vote only serves as a formal verification. But that is done with paper ballots and hand counts under supervision, the way we used to do it.

Here’s the recipe now:

(1) Publish a poll contrived to suggest the result you are going to bring about.

(2) Manipulate the machines to bring about precisely your desired outcome.

As someone with great sentimental attachment to the Republican Party, as I joined as the party of Goldwater, both parties have engaged in voting machine manipulation. Nowhere in the country has this been more true than Wisconsin, where there are strong indications that Scott Walker and the Reince Priebus machine rigged as many as five elections including the defeat of a Walker recall election.

Mathematician and voting statistic expert Richard Charnin has produced a compelling study by comparing polling to actual results and exit polls to make a compelling case for voting machine manipulation in the Badger state.   

When the Trump vs. Cruz primary took place, the same pattern emerged again of a Marquette University poll showing a 20 point shift from Trump ahead by 10% to Trump behind by 10%, which was simply absurd. Shifts like that don’t happen over brief intervals of time, absent a nuclear explosion. It didn’t make any sense — unless you knew what was going on was an “instant replay” of Walker’s victories. The machine Priebus built was delivering for Cruz big time.

Today, the polling industry has been reported to be “in a state of crisis” because they are altering their samples to favor Hillary. The Reuters poll actually got busted for oversampling Democrats in order to inflate Hillary’s lead. We even had the absurdity of a Gallup poll proclaiming that 51% of those who had heard Trump’s speech were less likely to vote for him, which was endlessly repeated by the shills at MSNBC.

I predicted that Trump would lead in the polls after his highly successful convention (despite the media frenzy over the non-issue of a Melania Trump staffer plagiarizing a handful of words). In fact, post convention polling for the Trump effort by pollster Tony Fabrizio in key swing states was encouraging. Perhaps this is why the establishment elites have gone into over-drive to attack Trump.

Hillary hasn’t exactly had smooth sailing. Julian Assange of Wikileaks said he had inconvertible proof that as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton armed Isis LINK. The IRS has opened an investigation to the Clinton Foundation and it’s many offshoots, and Hillary got caught lying about what FBI Director Comey did say about her.  

But you will see less of Hillary’s problems in the mainstream media, which has gone completely overboard in its relentless, even hysterical, efforts to lambaste Trump and promote her. Every remotely objective commentator has been stunned. Trump will, however, have an opportunity to drive these points home in the debates.  

We are now living in a fake reality of constructed data and phony polls. The computerized voting machines can be hacked and rigged and after the experience of Bernie Sanders there is no reason to believe they won’t be. Don’t be taken in.

Great Post Mr. Warnick a little history of the purity of this Democratic Party...Plzz note here...ONLY AFTER THERE HACKED DOES THE TRUTH COME OUT!

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS925US925&biw=1050&bih=490&sxsrf=ALeKk03bW2XvmRKi-pjeSqMwctWh_wn1zA%3A1609109771745&ei=CxHpX6X4LI-E-gTZt5_ADQ&q=wiki+leaks+exposes+obama+admin&oq=wiki+leaks+exposes+obama+admin&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoHCCMQsAMQJzoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCCMQyQMQJzoHCAAQFBCHAjoGCAAQFhAeOgcIIxDqAhAnOgQIIxAnOgQIABBDOgUIABCRAjoFCC4QkQI6BAguEEM6CgguEMcBEK8BEEM6BwgAEMkDEEM6BwgAELEDEEM6CAgAELEDEIMBOgIIADoFCAAQsQM6BAgAEAo6BwgAEMkDEAo6BAgAEAM6DQgAELEDEIMBEMkDEEM6CggAELEDEIMBEAo6BwguELEDEAo6BAguEAo6DQgAELEDEIMBEMkDEAo6BwgAELEDEAo6BwghEAoQoAE6BQghEKsCUN72AljGswVgt7oFaANwAngCgAGlAogBpBuSAQY0OC4xLjKYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6sAEKyAEJwAEB&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjlqeWCoe_tAhUPgp4KHdnbB9g4ChDh1QMIDQ&uact=5

 

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS925US925&biw=1050&bih=490&sxsrf=ALeKk03b-FOP_TwU2Geemlw3y5aeoWOEFw%3A1609112285450&ei=3RrpX-L9Gs3C-gTzgLnoCA&q=edward+snowden+leaks+obama+admistration&oq=edward+snowden+leaks+obama+admistration&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoNCC4QsAMQyAMQQxCTAjoHCAAQsAMQQzoKCC4QsAMQyAMQQzoKCAAQxwMQsAMQQzoICCEQFhAdEB46BQghEKABOgcIIRAKEKABOgUIIRCrAkoFCDgSATFQpEZYtaIBYPynAWgDcAB4AIAB9QGIAZENkgEGMjAuMC4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesgBBsABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwii4LWxqu_tAhVNoZ4KHXNADo0Q4dUDCA0&uact=5

 

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS925US925&biw=1050&bih=490&sxsrf=ALeKk02sa45pP2X7Sy7gTiHaZMx3m3YoIw%3A1609112359743&ei=JxvpX4LFLNLn-gS2haXQBQ&q=dnc+server+hacked+embarrsement&oq=dnc+server+hacked+embarrsement&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoHCCMQsAMQJzoHCAAQRxCwA1CawAFYuegBYJLuAWgBcAJ4AIABsAWIAagIkgEHMS4yLjUtMZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQnAAQE&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjC9OvUqu_tAhXSs54KHbZCCVoQ4dUDCA0&uact=5

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS925US925&sxsrf=ALeKk03QGC4LZiJ-_1I3bAWpgjdfQ1hjYQ%3A1609111191357&ei=lxbpX9ikFbTA7gK0xLDQCA&q=wasserman+schultz+removed&oq=wasserman+schultz+remoced&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgcIIRAKEKABOgQIABBHOggILhDJAxCTAjoCCAA6BQgAEMkDOgYIABAWEB46BQghEKABUIAFWMEfYLoqaABwA3gAgAHzA4gBwAySAQkzLjIuMS4xLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6yAEIwAEB&sclient=psy-ab

One could spend hours on all the nefarious actions played by the party.

And then there was ACORN...

https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/27/wall.acorn/index.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124182750646102435

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/18-former-acorn-workers-have-been-convicted-or-admitted-guilt-in-election-fraud

Edited by Eyes Wide Open
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On 12/27/2020 at 2:07 PM, LB Balm said:

I just read through 87 pages of this and I'm not trying to call for a kumbaya moment or anything but this discussion is being conducted in two different set of realities with different arbiters of facts. There's the "MAGA cult-deep staters" and the "Socialist election stealers".  (generalization)

Speaking as someone with a very divided family right now, where do we go from here? It feels like half of America is horrified to exist with so many people who voted for Trump, and the other half is torn between thinking most voted for Trump and wondering how there are so many unpatriotic Americans.

Maybe this belongs in another thread but are there any facts regarding the election that we can call good from both sides? Can we build from there?  Is there any source of information that we can agree is good? What would it take to change your mind? 

Talking to my family and seeing these discussions where we all talk past each other feels so fruitless and so mean-spirited. Is there someplace for these two diverging realities to rejoin? 

 

Reading your post created quite a bit of reflection, i had serious reservations in regards to the US citizenship still having a fundamental grasp on reality. It has been a while since that time, there now seems little hope of Trump over coming this election. Today there is a glimmer or hope, perhaps the socialist left has won a large battle...and in turn created a war. 

Trump has been nominated American the most admired man in America...Make no mistakes here the press will vilify and ignore this acknowledgement...Yet it has happened..There is Hope a lot of Hope. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/531906-trump-ends-obamas-12-year-run-as-most-admired-man-gallup

Edited by Eyes Wide Open
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21 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

 

Trump has been nominated American the most admired man in America...

By a poll posted on Fox news?   Remember back when polls were garbage and Fox posted fake news?  This got the trump fans mad so they started leaving, now perhaps, just perhaps, Fox is sucking up to the cult to get some viewers back.

You can't discredit a source and then reference them in the next breath. Comedy Gold!

on the same trump page.jpg

Edited by Enthalpic

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Most recent tweet is back to bashing Fox. 

opinion of fox hours later.jpg

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1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

By a poll posted on Fox news?   Remember back when polls were garbage and Fox posted fake news?  This got the trump fans mad so they started leaving, now perhaps, just perhaps, Fox is sucking up to the cult to get some viewers back.

You can't discredit a source and then reference them in the next breath. Comedy Gold!

on the same trump page.jpg

If you have not noticed i do not post Fox News as a source, calm down you are by far to reactionary.   

https://news.gallup.com/poll/328193/donald-trump-michelle-obama-admired-2020.aspx

ftokv9g_dkm9yxpxmbjqya.jpg

Edited by Eyes Wide Open
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41 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

If you have not noticed i do not post Fox News as a source, calm down you are by far too reactionary.  

Trump quotes Fox when convenient; you can't attempt to discredit a source and then reference them later - that's conflicting yourself.  Some self-consistency is not too much to ask from a "leader."

 

I am too reactionary?  You are part of the extremist group that is willing to ignore Law and Order!

Whatever, they will eventually see the writing on the proverbial wall (not trump's failed promise wall), go into hiding, lick their wounds, and hope people forget about what an embarrassment they made of themselves in 2020. 

Edited by Enthalpic

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22 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Trump quotes Fox when convenient; you can't attempt to discredit a source and then reference them later - that's conflicting yourself.  Some self-consistency is not too much to ask from a "leader."

 

I am too reactionary?  You are part of the extremist group that is willing to ignore Law and Order!

Whatever, they will eventually see the writing on the proverbial wall (not trump's failed promise wall), go into hiding, lick their wounds, and hope people forget about what an embarrassment they made of themselves in 2020. 

Your hilarious, yet entitled to your own opinion's. 

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3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:
3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Trump quotes Fox when convenient; you can't attempt to discredit a source and then reference them later - that's conflicting yourself.  Some self-consistency is not too much to ask from a "leader."

 

I am too reactionary?  You are part of the extremist group that is willing to ignore Law and Order!

Whatever, they will eventually see the writing on the proverbial wall (not trump's failed promise wall), go into hiding, lick their wounds, and hope people forget about what an embarrassment they made of themselves in 2020. 

Your hilarious, yet entitled to your own opinion's. 

Trump quotes many outlets, especially any that get reactions from the eejits.  The more the merrier!

To assume that any of us here only watch, read or listen to Fox News is silly.  I'm on the other side of the world and as such take advantage of journalism that is not so narrowly focussed.

It would be like me saying the eejits only watch, read or listen to CNN.

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34 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

 

To assume that any of us here only watch, read or listen to Fox News is silly.

I did not assume that.

I mentioned using a source as a reference after attempting to discredit the source. Can you not see the logical flaw in that action?

 

All this noise from trump is a fundraising con. There is no path to victory, but there is a path to separating cult fools from their money.  Honesty how many of you are voting with your wallets?   You claim Gates and Zuckerburg are funding the left so send in all your money. 

Perhaps you don't support trump as much as suggested by all the noise you make if you won't even send him a measly few hundred bucks.

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On 12/27/2020 at 6:04 PM, LB Balm said:

The problem is that the people you've been arguing with here would agree to that statement, just their reality is reality and yours is a fantasy. 

A really large portion of this thread has been bashing the other sides sources of information. The disagreements in my family also seem to come down to that. All I'm wondering is if there's some current news item or news source that we can all agree is reliable and build from there? 

Are we all just pulling from any source that agrees with our perspectives and calling it good? 

I'll say it again.  With almost endless sources of information, the world, and America in particular, is devolving into opposing camps who believe alternate sets of "facts".  It makes it impossible to have reasonable discussions.  I've asked many times on here and no can give me an answer.  Why is the mainstream media biased and unreliable while all these right-based websites and other sources believable and  truthful?  I guess the real answer is that the mainstream media disagree with the vast majority on here, so they are not credible.  It's as simple as that.

Certainly not claiming here that I know everything, but here are some "facts" as I know them....

-Various courts across the land have decided there is not enough evidence to prove voter fraud in any significant way.  If there was evidence, it would have been shown by now - it does not exist.  Do not post another video or website with grand tales, schemes and stories.  The courts have decided.  This makes the President-elect Joe Biden.  He will be sworn into office soon.

-With regard to election results, multiple States that have Republican Governors have certified the results of the vote.

-The Electoral College has cast its votes. Biden has won.

-Donald Trump's continual comments and tweets that he won the election BIG are harming your country.  He is being far, far from patriotic.

-Donald Trump lost to someone who he described as the "worst Presidential candidate in history".  This is cause for extreme embarrassment.

-Speaking of embarrassment, he has pardoned multiple individuals who were convicted of crimes that have benefitted him AND at least one member of his extended family.

I'll stop there, but here's another "fact":  Your country is more than strong enough to withstand 4 years of a President that isn't Donald Trump.  If you're so gd patriotic, you should believe this too.

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48 minutes ago, UNC12345 said:

This makes the President-elect Joe Biden.

That's funny: today he announced that he had taken the vaccine on TV to show the American public that is was okay. And furthermore that "President-Elect Harris" had taken one too. 

 

49 minutes ago, UNC12345 said:

-The Electoral College has cast its votes. Biden has won.

And how is it that you know this? The Electoral College doesn't cast its ballots until Jan. 6. And there are over 100 Representatives in the House who say they will contest that. We have a thing called a contingent election, which is where the House of Representatives takes over the election if there is evidence that it wasn't conducted properly. 

My recommendation? Come back on Jan. 7 and tell us who won. We'll all be listening. 

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8 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

That's funny: today he announced that he had taken the vaccine on TV to show the American public that is was okay. And furthermore that "President-Elect Harris" had taken one too. 

 

And how is it that you know this? The Electoral College doesn't cast its ballots until Jan. 6. And there are over 100 Representatives in the House who say they will contest that. We have a thing called a contingent election, which is where the House of Representatives takes over the election if there is evidence that it wasn't conducted properly. 

My recommendation? Come back on Jan. 7 and tell us who won. We'll all be listening. 

Please note on Dec 14 the electors voted (IE they cast their ballots). On Jan 6 the ballots are counted and the VP then announces the results. You keep dreaming, it is all you have left.

Oh and the source for the following

https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/key-dates

December 14, 2020—electors vote in their States

The electors meet in their respective States and vote for President and Vice President on separate ballots. The electors record their votes on six Certificates of Vote, which are paired with the six remaining Certificates of Ascertainment. The electors sign, seal, and certify six sets of electoral votes. A set of electoral votes consists of one Certificate of Ascertainment and one Certificate of Vote.

December 23, 2020—electoral votes arrive

Electoral votes (the Certificates of Vote) must be received by the President of the Senate and the Archivist no later than nine days after the meeting of the electors. If votes are lost or delayed, the Archivist may take extraordinary measures to retrieve duplicate originals.

On or before January 3, 2021—Archivist transfers Certificates to Congress

As the new Congress assembles, the Archivist transmits sets of Certificates to Congress, as requested. This generally happens when the Senate does not receive its set of Certificates on time. The transfer occurs in late December or early January when OFR’s Legal staff meets with representatives of the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of the House.

January 6, 2021—Congress counts the electoral votes

Congress meets in joint session to count the electoral votes. The Vice President, as President of the Senate, presides over the count and announces the results of the Electoral College vote. The President of the Senate then declares which persons, if any, have been elected President and Vice President of the United States.

If any objections to the electoral votes are made, they must be submitted in writing and be signed by at least one member of the House and one Senator. If objections are presented, the House and Senate withdraw to their respective chambers to consider the merits of the objection(s) under procedures set out in Federal law.

If no Presidential candidate wins at least 270 electoral votes (a majority of the 538 available votes), under the 12th Amendment to the Constitution the House of Representatives decides the Presidential election. If necessary, the House would elect the President by majority vote, choosing from among the three candidates who received the greatest number of electoral votes. The vote would be taken by State, with each State having one vote. (The District of Columbia does not vote because it doesn't have voting members in the House of Representatives.)

If no Vice Presidential candidate wins at least 270 electoral votes (a majority or the 538 available votes), under the 12th Amendment the Senate elects the Vice President. If necessary, the Senate would elect the Vice President by majority vote, choosing between the two candidates who received the greatest number of electoral votes. Each Senator would have one vote.

Edited by notsonice
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1 hour ago, notsonice said:

And how is it that you know this? The Electoral College doesn't cast its ballots until Jan. 6. And there are over 100 Representatives in the House who say they will contest that.

 

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

Please note on Dec 14 the electors voted (IE they cast their ballots). On Jan 6 the ballots are counted and the VP then announces the results. You keep dreaming, it is all you have left.

You're right, I misspoke--the ballots were indeed cast and will be recognized--or not--on January 6, 2021. 

I'm not exactly dreaming: Twice or three times in history, we've had elections that "went against the grain" and wound up being decided by the House. I'm not naive to think that's likely to happen this time, but I am enough of a purist to think that an election in which several states violated their own election laws is suspect, and therefore subject to legislative repair. That's all. 

Or maybe I am dreaming: 1) The news was censored by Big Tech and MSM, 2) The Democrat candidate was hidden away in his basement, 3) He has now made the Freudian slip three times regarding a certain "President-Elect Harris," 4) I pretty much doubt he could name the heads of state of more than a couple of nations. So yes, I might be dreaming of a place where we were just a few short years ago, a place whereby you couldn't do these sorts of things under cover of a pandemic and get by with them. 

If this is all just a smokescreen, and the new president-elect is inaugurated, then I strongly suspect we'll yearn for those old days even more. How long do you think it will be, for example, until Mr. Biden makes such a large blunder that Article 25 will be trotted out? The oddsmakers are giving it 24 months. I think that's being generous. 

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RINO's Vs. PINO's

I strongly recommend that everyone read an eloquent analysis by GOP Senator Ben Sasse about the post-election efforts by Trump and his supporters to overturn the election results, up to and including the final step in the election process on January 6th. 

I have shown the headings for the seven sections of his open letter, with an excerpt from #6 and with the full text of his concluding remarks.

The members of the Trump Personality Cult (TPC) will of course refer to Republicans like Sen. Sasse--who support the Constitution--as RINO’s (Republicans In Name Only).  

I would argue that elected members of the TPC, like Sen. Hawley, are PINO’s (Patriots In Name Only), who are ready and willing to shred the Constitution, in defiance of the Constitutional oath that they took, in order to keep their Dear Leader in power, which has extremely troubling echoes of the personality cult around Hitler, in 1930’s Germany. 

Of course, Trump has his own latter-day version of Hitler’s Brownshirts—the Proud Boys.  Following is an excerpt from a Washington Post column:

Trump is inciting chaos on Jan. 6, both in and outside the Capitol
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-inciting-chaos-on-jan-6-both-in-and-outside-the-capitol/2020/12/30/7c4196b0-4ad2-11eb-839a-cf4ba7b7c48c_story.html

JANUARY 6, the day Congress meets in a joint session to accept the results of the presidential election, should be a testament to America’s enduring democracy. Yet it may become a demonstration of its poor health. President Trump, along with craven enablers such as Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), is seeking to upend what should be solemn but largely perfunctory proceedings to ratify the victory of President-elect Joe Biden. The result could be a shameless show of support by numerous congressional Republicans for erasing the votes of millions of Americans — and, perhaps, mayhem incited by the president in the streets of D.C.

“Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!,” Mr. Trump tweeted earlier this month in an appeal to his supporters to come to the capital to buttress his campaign to overturn the election results. He followed up Sunday, “See you in Washington, DC, on January 6th. Don’t miss it. Information to follow!” And again on Wednesday, “JANUARY SIXTH, SEE YOU IN DC!”

That the president is actively seeking to incite street protests is a matter of more than a little concern to D.C. officials who — based on the behavior of some of Mr. Trump’s supporters at two previous rallies — fear there could be violence. While daytime demonstrations were largely peaceful on Nov. 14 and Dec. 12, destruction and bloodshed broke out when night came. During the Dec. 12 event, four people were stabbed, and members of the Proud Boys — a far-right group linked to white supremacy and categorized by the FBI as an extremist organization — were seen roaming the streets and assaulting bystanders. Black Lives Matter banners belonging to Black churches were torn down, and the leader of the Proud Boys proudly claimed responsibility for burning one of the banners.

End Excerpt.

Sen. Ben Sasses:  WHAT HAPPENS ON JANUARY 6th
https://www.facebook.com/SenatorSasse/posts/what-happens-on-january-6th-in-november-160-million-americans-voted-on-december-/3517705981660655/

1.  IS THERE A CONSTITUTIONAL BASIS FOR CONGRESS TO DISMISS ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTES?

2. IS THERE EVIDENCE OF VOTER FRAUD SO WIDESPREAD THAT IT COULD HAVE CHANGED THE OUTCOME OF THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?

3.  BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CLAIMS OF THE PRESIDENT’S LAWYERS THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN?

4. WAIT, ARE YOU CLAIMING THERE WAS NO FRAUD OF ANY KIND THIS YEAR?

5. BUT ISN’T IT IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO INVESTIGATE THESE CLAIMS MORE THOROUGHLY? DOESN’T IT HELP GUARANTEE THE LEGITIMACY OF OUR ELECTORAL PROCESS?

6. DO ANY OF YOUR COLLEAGUES DISAGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THIS?

When we talk in private, I haven’t heard a single Congressional Republican allege that the election results were fraudulent – not one. Instead, I hear them talk about their worries about how they will “look” to President Trump’s most ardent supporters.

…WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

The president and his allies are playing with fire. They have been asking – first the courts, then state legislatures, now the Congress – to overturn the results of a presidential election. They have unsuccessfully called on judges and are now calling on federal officeholders to invalidate millions and millions of votes. If you make big claims, you had better have the evidence. But the president doesn’t and neither do the institutional arsonist members of Congress who will object to the Electoral College vote.

Let’s be clear what is happening here: We have a bunch of ambitious politicians who think there’s a quick way to tap into the president’s populist base without doing any real, long-term damage. But they’re wrong – and this issue is bigger than anyone’s personal ambitions. Adults don’t point a loaded gun at the heart of legitimate self-government.

We have a deep cancer in American politics right now: Both Republicans and Democrats are growing more distrustful of the basic processes and procedures that we follow. Some people will respond to these arguments by saying: “The courts are just in the tank for Democrats!” And indeed the President has been tweeting that “the courts are bad” (and the Justice Department, and more). That’s an example of the legitimacy crisis so many of us have been worried about. Democrats spent four years pretending Trump didn’t win the election, and now (shocker) a good section of Republicans are going to spend the next four years pretending Biden didn’t win the election.

All the clever arguments and rhetorical gymnastics in the world won’t change the fact that this January 6th effort is designed to disenfranchise millions of Americans simply because they voted for someone in a different party. We ought to be better than that. If we normalize this, we’re going to turn American politics into a Hatfields and McCoys endless blood feud – a house hopelessly divided.

America has always been fertile soil for groupthink, conspiracy theories, and showmanship. But Americans have common sense. We know up from down, and if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. We need that common sense if we’re going to rebuild trust.

It won’t be easy, but it’s hardly beyond our reach. And it’s what self-government requires. It’s part of how, to recall Benjamin Franklin, we struggle to do right by the next generation and “keep a republic.”
 

Edited by Jeffrey Brown

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Righto, it was a perfectly run election. It's normal to use voting machines with obvious flaws, and to have mathematically impossible spikes in votes for a losing candidate just after vote-counting moratoriums were called more or less simultaneously in five states. What kind of Benedict Arnold wouldn't want to see these kinds of things? 

What in the name of God are the rest of us thinking? We are so stupid not to see that when you have a president like Mr. Trump in office, there is nothing whatsoever that falls outside the realm of acceptability in removing him. Darn it, you've outfoxed us again! 

And gosh, Mr. Sasse--surely you jest--is just about the only constitutional scholar in the Senate, a jim-dandy poster boy for the hallowed Electoral Clause tenets written down by the Founders. And anyone knows that Josh Hawley is just a young hothead, not to be trusted with a sharp pencil. What in the world have we been thinking?

Why in the world would anyone worry about a president-elect that just yesterday referred to his vice-presidential running mate as "President-Elect Harris?" Or turned on a reporter with an able quip, "One Horse Pony?" Anyone would want a quickie like that, especially when wrangling with President Xi or Vladimir Putin. And of course, in those countries--China especially--our new boy-wonder has his own boy-wonder (the smartest man he's ever seen, according to his own comment) to work out the financial details. 

During the economic recovery, lest we've all forgotten, shale oil and gas were the only green shoots there for a while. Who in the world, especially on an oil and gas forum, wouldn't want to support the man and woman who've both vowed to end fracking? Golly, I'd forgotten that the goal here is to become dependent on the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Iran and Russia for our oil and gas, and that we really should be suing oil companies into oblivion, because everyone knows how good $6 gas-at-the-pump is for the economy in general, not to mention the fact that energy-dependence is the Achilles Heel of any country's national defense. 

Thank you so much, Jeffrey, for showing us just how wrong and unpatriotic and dumb we've been. Shame on us, we should all go and eat worms! Please bring on that sterling material spouted by all the GOP pros, the honest brokers of justice and parliamentary excellence; I don't know how it escaped our notice!

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40 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

I am enough of a purist to think that an election in which several states violated their own election laws is suspect,

Gerry, you seem more reasonable than most in the posts I've read on here, but I just can't let some of this stuff go and have to call you on a few things.  Why do you continue to trot out this line about election fraud when case after case after has been thrown out of the courts entirely or lost?  I just can't figure this out.  This is the equivalent of saying that all these judges (some appointed by Trump), lawyers, court systems are hopelessly corrupt.  You really and truly believe this?  I can't get past this about the Trump army of supporters.  I know HE is saying it, but should YOU be saying it when all evidence says otherwise?

43 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

The Democrat candidate was hidden away in his basement,

This is known as election strategy.  Why would he do anything when the buffoon in office was making a mess of things all on his own?  It apparently was an excellent tactical decision because it worked and he won.

45 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

He has now made the Freudian slip three times regarding a certain "President-Elect Harris

I find it absolutely mind-boggling that you can bring up slips like this as a sign of mental defectiveness.  There's no question he's old and less sharp than a younger version, but who among us isn't as we age?   You bring this up in defense of Trump who stood in front of the nation and talked about possibly injecting bleach into the body to kill the coronavirus (not sarcasm, sorry, watch the video).  This is only one laughable example and I won't list anymore in the interest of space.

Last I couldn't find the post to quote it but at some point you mentioned that Trump had been "overthrown".  Don't you find this interesting terminology to use with respect to a democratically elected President?  Isn't this the sort of term that is usually reserved for leaders of Banana Republics who install themselves into power with the help of the military?  Perhaps this was a slip on your part, or did you really mean that?  If you did mean to use that term, doesn't that say a lot about how you or others view Trump's hold on the country?  

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NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!

You on the left miss the point: There really has been no critical forensic examination of the Dominion Voting Machines and their possible attachment to mechanisms that could alter the votes . . . at least that have been admitted in a court of law. Many cases have been summarily thrown out--that's what bothers me. 

A bipartisan commission to oversee a forensic examination of the voting mechanisms in these swing states would have solved this one way or the other. There are many suspect deviations from "usual and acceptable practices" in elections. Texas (a state that I happen to trust) looked at these machines and laughed about how easy it would be to rig them. 

Trump is not liked by judges, especially the ones he appointed. He is anti-Deep State, whatever that is. He is a pig in a China closet (capitalization intended). He is at times crude and crass. But his results have been absolutely spectacular.  

MY POINT IS NOT THAT THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED, BUT RATHER THAT WE SIMPLY DON'T KNOW!

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Sigh.  The argument/discussion is pointless if you can't agree to common sense points or directly answer the questions asked. Simplified...

If there was all this doubt as you point out, wouldn't the high-powered legal team have brought forth evidence by now?  You don't know? A reasonable person knows by now.

Why continually mention "hidden away in the basement" as a knock on Biden when it was an effective strategy, simply letting Trump destroy himself?

Why use the term "overthrown" when referring to a democratically elected President in the USA?

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1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

 

You're right, I misspoke--the ballots were indeed cast and will be recognized--or not--on January 6, 2021. 

I'm not exactly dreaming: Twice or three times in history, we've had elections that "went against the grain" and wound up being decided by the House. I'm not naive to think that's likely to happen this time, but I am enough of a purist to think that an election in which several states violated their own election laws is suspect, and therefore subject to legislative repair. That's all. 

Or maybe I am dreaming: 1) The news was censored by Big Tech and MSM, 2) The Democrat candidate was hidden away in his basement, 3) He has now made the Freudian slip three times regarding a certain "President-Elect Harris," 4) I pretty much doubt he could name the heads of state of more than a couple of nations. So yes, I might be dreaming of a place where we were just a few short years ago, a place whereby you couldn't do these sorts of things under cover of a pandemic and get by with them. 

If this is all just a smokescreen, and the new president-elect is inaugurated, then I strongly suspect we'll yearn for those old days even more. How long do you think it will be, for example, until Mr. Biden makes such a large blunder that Article 25 will be trotted out? The oddsmakers are giving it 24 months. I think that's being generous. 

and will be recognized--or not--on January 6, 2021???? or not what. Everyone knows the House will not go with the objections put forward by the GOP. End of story then on Jan 6 the joint session reconvenes and the votes as certified on Dec 14 stand and Biden in named the winner. No much for your.... or not .

You're right, I misspoke?.......... do not apologize to me , you should apologize to unc12345

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Righto, it was a perfectly run election. It's normal to use voting machines with obvious flaws, and to have mathematically impossible spikes in votes for a losing candidate just after vote-counting moratoriums were called more or less simultaneously in five states. What kind of Benedict Arnold wouldn't want to see these kinds of things? 

What in the name of God are the rest of us thinking? We are so stupid not to see that when you have a president like Mr. Trump in office, there is nothing whatsoever that falls outside the realm of acceptability in removing him. Darn it, you've outfoxed us again! 

And gosh, Mr. Sasse--surely you jest--is just about the only constitutional scholar in the Senate, a jim-dandy poster boy for the hallowed Electoral Clause tenets written down by the Founders. And anyone knows that Josh Hawley is just a young hothead, not to be trusted with a sharp pencil. What in the world have we been thinking?

Why in the world would anyone worry about a president-elect that just yesterday referred to his vice-presidential running mate as "President-Elect Harris?" Or turned on a reporter with an able quip, "One Horse Pony?" Anyone would want a quickie like that, especially when wrangling with President Xi or Vladimir Putin. And of course, in those countries--China especially--our new boy-wonder has his own boy-wonder (the smartest man he's ever seen, according to his own comment) to work out the financial details. 

During the economic recovery, lest we've all forgotten, shale oil and gas were the only green shoots there for a while. Who in the world, especially on an oil and gas forum, wouldn't want to support the man and woman who've both vowed to end fracking? Golly, I'd forgotten that the goal here is to become dependent on the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and Iran and Russia for our oil and gas, and that we really should be suing oil companies into oblivion, because everyone knows how good $6 gas-at-the-pump is for the economy in general, not to mention the fact that energy-dependence is the Achilles Heel of any country's national defense. 

Thank you so much, Jeffrey, for showing us just how wrong and unpatriotic and dumb we've been. Shame on us, we should all go and eat worms! Please bring on that sterling material spouted by all the GOP pros, the honest brokers of justice and parliamentary excellence; I don't know how it escaped our notice!

Absolutely wonderful sarcasm that is spot on with its intentions.  We have not been foolish enough to ignore the facts until now, and we will not be listening to opinions alone going forwards either.  Anyone can argue whether or not nefarious acts rise to the level of necessity to be corrected, but one cannot argue that nefarious acts should be allowed to stand.  NIMBY.

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On 12/27/2020 at 3:04 PM, LB Balm said:

The problem is that the people you've been arguing with here would agree to that statement, just their reality is reality and yours is a fantasy. 

A really large portion of this thread has been bashing the other sides sources of information. The disagreements in my family also seem to come down to that. All I'm wondering is if there's some current news item or news source that we can all agree is reliable and build from there? 

Are we all just pulling from any source that agrees with our perspectives and calling it good? 

If you take 100 red ants and put them in a jar with 100 black ants, they'll just chill together. But if you violently shake the jar, they'll all start killing each other. What made them do that wasn't black versus red, their enemy was the one shaking the jar. 

Who is shaking our jar? There's your enemy right there

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On 12/27/2020 at 5:08 PM, Dan Warnick said:

In this blast from the past, The Hill ran the following article back in 2016.  Wow, what a difference in reporting, then vs now!  It also makes it pretty clear it is not only Dominion machines that are manipulatable. 

Can the 2016 election be rigged? You bet

Donald Trumptrumpdonald_070117getty.jpg?itok=YIP2hsPhas said publicly that he fears the next election will be rigged. Based both on technical capability and recent history, Trump’s concerns are not unfounded.

A recent study by Stanford University proved that Hillary Clinton’s campaign rigged the system to steal the nomination from Bernie Sanders.

What was done to Bernie Sanders in Wisconsin is stunning.

Why would the Clintons not cheat again?

The issue here is both voter fraud, which is limited but does happen, and election theft through the manipulation of the computerized voting machines, particularly the DIEBOLD/PES voting machines in wide usage in most states.

POLITICO profiled a Princeton professor — who has demonstrated how the electronic voting machines that are most widely used can be hacked in five minutes or less! Robert Fitrakis Professor of Political Science in the Social and Behavioral Sciences Department at Columbus State Community College has written a must-read book on the strip and flip technique used to rig these machines. Professor Fitrakis is a Green Party activist.

A computer hacker showed CBS how to vote multiple times using a simple $15.00 electronic device.

To be very clear both parties have engaged in this skullduggery and it is the party in power in each state that has custody of the machines and control of their programing. This year, the results of machines in Pennsylvania, Virginia and Ohio, where Governor John Kasich controls the machines, must be matched with exit polls, for example.

Illinois is another obvious state where Trump has been running surprisingly strong, in what has become a Blue state. Does anyone trust Mayor Rahm Emanuel, a longtime Clinton hatchet man. not to monkey with the machines? I don’t. He was using City funded Community groups to recruit anti-Trump “protestors” who posed such a threat to public safety the Trump Chicago event was canceled when the Secret Service couldn’t guarantee his safety.

How do the pols of both parties do it?  As easy as determining, on the basis of honest polling, who is going to win. Then, if it isn’t your candidate, simply have the votes for the other guy be given to your guy and vice versa. You keep the total vote the same. This is where the “strip and flip” technique described by Professor Fitrakis comes in.

Maybe you don’t need all the votes the other guy was going to get. If you have a plan in mind involving votes and their redistribution, you can find a programmer who can design the machine instructions to produce that outcome.  Or you can hack the machine you are voting in with that $15 device that you can get at BEST BUY.

Europe has rejected electronic voting machines because they are untrustworthy. This is not a secret. The media continues a drum beat insisting voter fraud is non existent without ever addressing the more ominous question of manipulation of the voting machines.  It keeps those in control in control.

Additionally some states still use machines that include no paper trail. The "evidence” is destroyed. Florida’s machines have no paper trail in Bush v. Gore.

In Europe, they use exit polling to determine who won and lost. The tabulated vote only serves as a formal verification. But that is done with paper ballots and hand counts under supervision, the way we used to do it.

Here’s the recipe now:

(1) Publish a poll contrived to suggest the result you are going to bring about.

(2) Manipulate the machines to bring about precisely your desired outcome.

As someone with great sentimental attachment to the Republican Party, as I joined as the party of Goldwater, both parties have engaged in voting machine manipulation. Nowhere in the country has this been more true than Wisconsin, where there are strong indications that Scott Walker and the Reince Priebus machine rigged as many as five elections including the defeat of a Walker recall election.

Mathematician and voting statistic expert Richard Charnin has produced a compelling study by comparing polling to actual results and exit polls to make a compelling case for voting machine manipulation in the Badger state.   

When the Trump vs. Cruz primary took place, the same pattern emerged again of a Marquette University poll showing a 20 point shift from Trump ahead by 10% to Trump behind by 10%, which was simply absurd. Shifts like that don’t happen over brief intervals of time, absent a nuclear explosion. It didn’t make any sense — unless you knew what was going on was an “instant replay” of Walker’s victories. The machine Priebus built was delivering for Cruz big time.

Today, the polling industry has been reported to be “in a state of crisis” because they are altering their samples to favor Hillary. The Reuters poll actually got busted for oversampling Democrats in order to inflate Hillary’s lead. We even had the absurdity of a Gallup poll proclaiming that 51% of those who had heard Trump’s speech were less likely to vote for him, which was endlessly repeated by the shills at MSNBC.

I predicted that Trump would lead in the polls after his highly successful convention (despite the media frenzy over the non-issue of a Melania Trump staffer plagiarizing a handful of words). In fact, post convention polling for the Trump effort by pollster Tony Fabrizio in key swing states was encouraging. Perhaps this is why the establishment elites have gone into over-drive to attack Trump.

Hillary hasn’t exactly had smooth sailing. Julian Assange of Wikileaks said he had inconvertible proof that as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton armed Isis LINK. The IRS has opened an investigation to the Clinton Foundation and it’s many offshoots, and Hillary got caught lying about what FBI Director Comey did say about her.  

But you will see less of Hillary’s problems in the mainstream media, which has gone completely overboard in its relentless, even hysterical, efforts to lambaste Trump and promote her. Every remotely objective commentator has been stunned. Trump will, however, have an opportunity to drive these points home in the debates.  

We are now living in a fake reality of constructed data and phony polls. The computerized voting machines can be hacked and rigged and after the experience of Bernie Sanders there is no reason to believe they won’t be. Don’t be taken in.

Pack all that evidence in a briefcase and take it to court. Oh, that didn’t work around 40 times. Trump Republicans have dropped any sense of the rule of law, splitting from Trump supporters who demand the constitution be followed. 
I like this loyality test of Trump, the beginning of the end of a whacko thinking he can stage a coup with infomercials. Lol Will Putin give him a couple of hotels with golf courses when Trump relocates? 

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