Dan Warnick

U.S. Presidential Elections Status - Electoral Votes

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On 12/27/2020 at 3:04 PM, LB Balm said:

The problem is that the people you've been arguing with here would agree to that statement, just their reality is reality and yours is a fantasy. 

A really large portion of this thread has been bashing the other sides sources of information. The disagreements in my family also seem to come down to that. All I'm wondering is if there's some current news item or news source that we can all agree is reliable and build from there? 

Are we all just pulling from any source that agrees with our perspectives and calling it good? 

If you take 100 red ants and put them in a jar with 100 black ants, they'll just chill together. But if you violently shake the jar, they'll all start killing each other. What made them do that wasn't black versus red, their enemy was the one shaking the jar. 

Who is shaking our jar? There's your enemy right there

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On 12/27/2020 at 5:08 PM, Dan Warnick said:

In this blast from the past, The Hill ran the following article back in 2016.  Wow, what a difference in reporting, then vs now!  It also makes it pretty clear it is not only Dominion machines that are manipulatable. 

Can the 2016 election be rigged? You bet

Donald Trumptrumpdonald_070117getty.jpg?itok=YIP2hsPhas said publicly that he fears the next election will be rigged. Based both on technical capability and recent history, Trump’s concerns are not unfounded.

A recent study by Stanford University proved that Hillary Clinton’s campaign rigged the system to steal the nomination from Bernie Sanders.

What was done to Bernie Sanders in Wisconsin is stunning.

Why would the Clintons not cheat again?

The issue here is both voter fraud, which is limited but does happen, and election theft through the manipulation of the computerized voting machines, particularly the DIEBOLD/PES voting machines in wide usage in most states.

POLITICO profiled a Princeton professor — who has demonstrated how the electronic voting machines that are most widely used can be hacked in five minutes or less! Robert Fitrakis Professor of Political Science in the Social and Behavioral Sciences Department at Columbus State Community College has written a must-read book on the strip and flip technique used to rig these machines. Professor Fitrakis is a Green Party activist.

A computer hacker showed CBS how to vote multiple times using a simple $15.00 electronic device.

To be very clear both parties have engaged in this skullduggery and it is the party in power in each state that has custody of the machines and control of their programing. This year, the results of machines in Pennsylvania, Virginia and Ohio, where Governor John Kasich controls the machines, must be matched with exit polls, for example.

Illinois is another obvious state where Trump has been running surprisingly strong, in what has become a Blue state. Does anyone trust Mayor Rahm Emanuel, a longtime Clinton hatchet man. not to monkey with the machines? I don’t. He was using City funded Community groups to recruit anti-Trump “protestors” who posed such a threat to public safety the Trump Chicago event was canceled when the Secret Service couldn’t guarantee his safety.

How do the pols of both parties do it?  As easy as determining, on the basis of honest polling, who is going to win. Then, if it isn’t your candidate, simply have the votes for the other guy be given to your guy and vice versa. You keep the total vote the same. This is where the “strip and flip” technique described by Professor Fitrakis comes in.

Maybe you don’t need all the votes the other guy was going to get. If you have a plan in mind involving votes and their redistribution, you can find a programmer who can design the machine instructions to produce that outcome.  Or you can hack the machine you are voting in with that $15 device that you can get at BEST BUY.

Europe has rejected electronic voting machines because they are untrustworthy. This is not a secret. The media continues a drum beat insisting voter fraud is non existent without ever addressing the more ominous question of manipulation of the voting machines.  It keeps those in control in control.

Additionally some states still use machines that include no paper trail. The "evidence” is destroyed. Florida’s machines have no paper trail in Bush v. Gore.

In Europe, they use exit polling to determine who won and lost. The tabulated vote only serves as a formal verification. But that is done with paper ballots and hand counts under supervision, the way we used to do it.

Here’s the recipe now:

(1) Publish a poll contrived to suggest the result you are going to bring about.

(2) Manipulate the machines to bring about precisely your desired outcome.

As someone with great sentimental attachment to the Republican Party, as I joined as the party of Goldwater, both parties have engaged in voting machine manipulation. Nowhere in the country has this been more true than Wisconsin, where there are strong indications that Scott Walker and the Reince Priebus machine rigged as many as five elections including the defeat of a Walker recall election.

Mathematician and voting statistic expert Richard Charnin has produced a compelling study by comparing polling to actual results and exit polls to make a compelling case for voting machine manipulation in the Badger state.   

When the Trump vs. Cruz primary took place, the same pattern emerged again of a Marquette University poll showing a 20 point shift from Trump ahead by 10% to Trump behind by 10%, which was simply absurd. Shifts like that don’t happen over brief intervals of time, absent a nuclear explosion. It didn’t make any sense — unless you knew what was going on was an “instant replay” of Walker’s victories. The machine Priebus built was delivering for Cruz big time.

Today, the polling industry has been reported to be “in a state of crisis” because they are altering their samples to favor Hillary. The Reuters poll actually got busted for oversampling Democrats in order to inflate Hillary’s lead. We even had the absurdity of a Gallup poll proclaiming that 51% of those who had heard Trump’s speech were less likely to vote for him, which was endlessly repeated by the shills at MSNBC.

I predicted that Trump would lead in the polls after his highly successful convention (despite the media frenzy over the non-issue of a Melania Trump staffer plagiarizing a handful of words). In fact, post convention polling for the Trump effort by pollster Tony Fabrizio in key swing states was encouraging. Perhaps this is why the establishment elites have gone into over-drive to attack Trump.

Hillary hasn’t exactly had smooth sailing. Julian Assange of Wikileaks said he had inconvertible proof that as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton armed Isis LINK. The IRS has opened an investigation to the Clinton Foundation and it’s many offshoots, and Hillary got caught lying about what FBI Director Comey did say about her.  

But you will see less of Hillary’s problems in the mainstream media, which has gone completely overboard in its relentless, even hysterical, efforts to lambaste Trump and promote her. Every remotely objective commentator has been stunned. Trump will, however, have an opportunity to drive these points home in the debates.  

We are now living in a fake reality of constructed data and phony polls. The computerized voting machines can be hacked and rigged and after the experience of Bernie Sanders there is no reason to believe they won’t be. Don’t be taken in.

Pack all that evidence in a briefcase and take it to court. Oh, that didn’t work around 40 times. Trump Republicans have dropped any sense of the rule of law, splitting from Trump supporters who demand the constitution be followed. 
I like this loyality test of Trump, the beginning of the end of a whacko thinking he can stage a coup with infomercials. Lol Will Putin give him a couple of hotels with golf courses when Trump relocates? 

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Here on the Island of Lost Boys, the members of the TPC (Trump Personality Cult) persist in at least claiming that that they can see evidence of widespread fraud that numerous organizations and individuals who supported Trump can't see, e.g., former Attorney General William Barr, numerous Senators and House members and the WSJ and NY Post Editorial Pages.   

The latest missive from the WSJ Editors:

WSJ:  Trump’s Embarrassing Electoral College Hustle

It is doomed to fail but would still set a destructive precedent.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-embarrassing-electoral-college-hustle-11609371708

Excerpt:

President Trump’s last and worst shot at overturning the 2020 election will come on Jan. 6, as the new Congress meets in joint session to tally the votes from the Electoral College. Mr. Trump wants Republican lawmakers to lodge formal objections to Joe Biden’s electors, and this kamikaze mission already has a few volunteers.

Here’s what would happen next, at least according to the Electoral Count Act: If a state’s electors are challenged by both a Senator and a Representative, then each chamber is supposed to retire to consider it. If they rejected the electors of enough states to deny Mr. Biden 270 electoral votes, then the House would choose the President.

But how could lawmakers justify throwing out electors for Mr. Biden? Although Mr. Trump keeps tweeting claims of massive vote fraud, his lawsuits have been rejected in court, sometimes by his own conservative appointees.

 

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(edited)

45 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

 

Who is shaking our jar? There's your enemy right there

Trump was the one who shook the jar.  He said he was going to do it, then he did it.  It just turns out getting shook wasn't as much fun as the MAGA group thought it would be.  Trump is so arrogant people thought he could start fights and win them.  Instead he just pissed off the wrong people and mobilized the left.

Some people think marshes are ugly "swamps that should be drained' - others call them essential wetlands.

Edited by Enthalpic

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fhfg.PNG

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1 hour ago, notsonice said:

and will be recognized--or not--on January 6, 2021???? or not what. Everyone knows the House will not go with the objections put forward by the GOP. End of story then on Jan 6 the joint session reconvenes and the votes as certified on Dec 14 stand and Biden in named the winner. No much for your.... or not .

You're right, I misspoke?.......... do not apologize to me , you should apologize to unc12345

#1, I'm not apologizing to anyone. I merely put down something that was slightly different than I intended. As it happens, the Electoral College has to be recognized for the collated vote to count. The person in charge of recognizing the vote as valid is Vice-President Pence, the head of the House of Representatives. The Speaker of the House is not the head of the House, not where elections are concerned. That has always been the VP; it's in the Electoral Clause as I recall. I rather suspect that Mr. Pence will recognize the vote of the EC and ratify it for the Congressional Record, and that Joe Biden will be sworn in as president. 

#2, But it's not a done deal. Twice before in our country's history, the vote has turned into a "Contingent Election." In that case, the House of Representatives votes not pro rata, per seated representative, but as a state delegation: one vote per state. In the current House, there are more representatives on the Democrat side, but when it comes to state delegations, there are more Republicans. In a cohesive party, which this one is most certainly not, that would mean a majority vote for Mr. Trump. But the House is more cohesive than the Senate. Fortunately, the Senate has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the results of a Contingent Election--it is entirely on the House.

 For example, John Quincy Adams won the Electoral College but there was enough question that the House chose his opponent--I'd have to look it up but I believe it was Thomas Jefferson--as the next president. In the early days, the House was a raucous place: Vice-President Aaron Burr was at one point wanted for murder in the state of New York for killing Alexander Hamilton in a duel, but ran the House of Representatives like he was . . . Pontius Pilate.

We shouldn't be here, at this point, with all this uncertainty. I mean, the Gallop Poll shows Mr. Trump to be the most admired man in America and a 78-year-old guy on his last legs, with a son who'd been allowed to China-grift on his father's position as VP, and a total inability to manufacture a sentence that contains both structure and syntax, suddenly sweeps to victory? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the election was no more "rigged" than any other, but it sure as hell seems like it. At least to the hopeless few of us--about 80 million strong, give or take.

There. I've made my point and perhaps it's not good enough to pass the smell test but it's mine, from the heart, so it's as good as about anything else on here. At least, on an oil and gas forum, I have enough steel in my spine to use my real name and to support the responsible production and use of fossil fuels. If that doesn't appeal to you little electric car fellows, well, that's just the way it is. 

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1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

Who is shaking our jar? There's your enemy right there

A great point. My bet is that, when you get past all the propaganda, it's President Xi who is shaking our jar. 

And you fellows on the left, so smug and sure that YOU elected Mr. Biden, you might want to consider this.

Because one day--I don't know when--the jar-shaker is going to become apparent and it's going to be fairly embarrassing to be thought of as a supporter of the Chinese Communist Party. 

Just sayin' . . . . .

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7 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

fhfg.PNG

Pence won't do it. People are suing him over it already. The bold part means Pence told them to go pound sand.

 

“In the teleconference, Plaintiffs' counsel made a meaningful attempt to resolve the underlying legal issues by agreement, including advising the Vice President's counsel that Plaintiffs intended to seek immediate injunctive relief in the event the parties did not agree,” lawyers for Gohmert and the electors said in the filing. “Those discussions were not successful in reaching an agreement and this lawsuit was filed.”

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Testing

 

CF9A3221-F256-499C-9E2F-CFE4F686E800.gif

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It was the Russians all along...oh wait

 

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2 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

#1, I'm not apologizing to anyone. I merely put down something that was slightly different than I intended. As it happens, the Electoral College has to be recognized for the collated vote to count. The person in charge of recognizing the vote as valid is Vice-President Pence, the head of the House of Representatives. The Speaker of the House is not the head of the House, not where elections are concerned. That has always been the VP; it's in the Electoral Clause as I recall. I rather suspect that Mr. Pence will recognize the vote of the EC and ratify it for the Congressional Record, and that Joe Biden will be sworn in as president. 

#2, But it's not a done deal. Twice before in our country's history, the vote has turned into a "Contingent Election." In that case, the House of Representatives votes not pro rata, per seated representative, but as a state delegation: one vote per state. In the current House, there are more representatives on the Democrat side, but when it comes to state delegations, there are more Republicans. In a cohesive party, which this one is most certainly not, that would mean a majority vote for Mr. Trump. But the House is more cohesive than the Senate. Fortunately, the Senate has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the results of a Contingent Election--it is entirely on the House.

 For example, John Quincy Adams won the Electoral College but there was enough question that the House chose his opponent--I'd have to look it up but I believe it was Thomas Jefferson--as the next president. In the early days, the House was a raucous place: Vice-President Aaron Burr was at one point wanted for murder in the state of New York for killing Alexander Hamilton in a duel, but ran the House of Representatives like he was . . . Pontius Pilate.

We shouldn't be here, at this point, with all this uncertainty. I mean, the Gallop Poll shows Mr. Trump to be the most admired man in America and a 78-year-old guy on his last legs, with a son who'd been allowed to China-grift on his father's position as VP, and a total inability to manufacture a sentence that contains both structure and syntax, suddenly sweeps to victory? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the election was no more "rigged" than any other, but it sure as hell seems like it. At least to the hopeless few of us--about 80 million strong, give or take.

There. I've made my point and perhaps it's not good enough to pass the smell test but it's mine, from the heart, so it's as good as about anything else on here. At least, on an oil and gas forum, I have enough steel in my spine to use my real name and to support the responsible production and use of fossil fuels. If that doesn't appeal to you little electric car fellows, well, that's just the way it is. 

#1, I'm not apologizing to anyone. I merely put down something that was slightly different than I intended. ????? yep got it. You make me laugh. Spin your tales after you posted

And how is it that you know this? The Electoral College doesn't cast its ballots until Jan. 6. And there are over 100 Representatives in the House who say they will contest that. We have a thing called a contingent election, which is where the House of Representatives takes over the election if there is evidence that it wasn't conducted properly. 

My recommendation? Come back on Jan. 7 and tell us who won. We'll all be listening. 

It is Dec 31 Try rewriting what you wrote and send it to UNC12345. We are all listening.

 

 

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1 hour ago, El Nikko said:

 

In other words the CEO of Dominion perjured himself

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3 minutes ago, notsonice said:

It is Dec 31 Try rewriting what you wrote and send it to UNC12345. We are all listening.

I'm confused, is UNC12345 Your sock puppet, or is it the other way around? 

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1 minute ago, notsonice said:

#1, I'm not apologizing to anyone. I merely put down something that was slightly different than I intended. ????? yep got it. You make me laugh. Spin your tales after you posted

And how is it that you know this? The Electoral College doesn't cast its ballots until Jan. 6. And there are over 100 Representatives in the House who say they will contest that. We have a thing called a contingent election, which is where the House of Representatives takes over the election if there is evidence that it wasn't conducted properly. 

My recommendation? Come back on Jan. 7 and tell us who won. We'll all be listening. 

It is Dec 31 Try rewriting what you wrote and send it to UNC12345. We are all listening.

 

 

Shut up you utter clown. This discussion is over especially with disgusting commies like you. We'll just have to wait for a few more days and if you are right you can gloat all you want...but somehow people notice people like you...so desperate so pathetic and weak.

You are repulsive self hating individuals who need serious help if you even live in a western country.

My feeling is you are all going to vanish in a few days time

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30 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

Shut up you utter clown. This discussion is over especially with disgusting commies like you. We'll just have to wait for a few more days and if you are right you can gloat all you want...but somehow people notice people like you...so desperate so pathetic and weak.

You are repulsive self hating individuals who need serious help if you even live in a western country.

My feeling is you are all going to vanish in a few days time

Ha ha ha, You really do not deal with reality to well do you? Me?  Born, raised and live in the US. You ?  From your poor English my bet is you are not an American. Please keep babbling your shut up clown talk, it is all you have.

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'At Least 140' House Republicans Plan To Object To Biden Electoral Votes

by Tyler Durden
Thursday, Dec 31, 2020 - 13:20

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/dozens-republicans-planning-challenge-electoral-college-results

Update (1415ET): CNN's Jake Tapper says that two House Republicans told him at least 140 GOP members of the House will object to Biden's Electoral College win.

[MORE AT ARTICLE]

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36 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

I'm confused, is UNC12345 Your sock puppet, or is it the other way around? 

 

36 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

I'm confused, is UNC12345 Your sock puppet, or is it the other way around? 

The great Ward ? I am so honored. I have no idea who UNC12345. I just despise those who post utter garbage from their high chairs. You still confused?

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Just now, Tom Nolan said:

'At Least 140' House Republicans Plan To Object To Biden Electoral Votes

by Tyler Durden
Thursday, Dec 31, 2020 - 13:20

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/dozens-republicans-planning-challenge-electoral-college-results

Update (1415ET): CNN's Jake Tapper says that two House Republicans told him at least 140 GOP members of the House will object to Biden's Electoral College win.

[MORE AT ARTICLE]

Yep they can object, then the House votes and their objections are noted and put aside by the Democratic controlled house. End of story. What is your point?

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