Tesla Semi

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

5 minutes ago, Boat said:

Hope your doing well and welcome back.

Thanks, Boat.  An ordeal I never hope to repeat, but I have survived and they tell me the procedure was successful.  Basically I had more gum in the lines than could be dealt with with a can or two of injector cleaner/additive, so they had to go in and scrape them and install stents.

I'm making light of it, but it was hell, brother.

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

Dan, you have written a fair amount about the computers in these cars.  In your scenarios above, it strikes me that 1) you are not going to need 300 miles/day, and 2) when you do need 300 miles, you can "tell" the computer about it and it will make sure the battery is ready for you to hit the road on time.  Is that correct, or do I assume too much?  I also remember you talking about going on a trip and the computer planning everything for you, at least as far as the car's energy needs along the way.

Yes, you can program your charging times, either one-off or on a schedule. This was true on my 2014 BMW i3 and is true on my Model Y, and I think it has been true on all Teslas since the first one. My default setting on my Model Y is to start charging at 12:15 AM (a little after the lowest-rate electricity tariff starts) and tell it to quit when it reaches 80% charge (extends the life of the battery), which will occur before the low-rate tariff ends unless I start with a very depleted battery This just happen every time I plug the car in at home. Before a long trip, I would tell it to charge to 100% instead, and if for some reason started from a low charge state AND I knew I needed the car early, I would tell it to start earlier in the evening, or I would take a book to read and go to the nearest supercharger for 30 minutes to get to 80% at 250 kW, and then charge the rest of the way to 100% at home.

For route planning, I don't know about non-Tesla, but for Tesla you use the car's computer or your smartphone to set the destination and departure time, just as you would in Google Maps. Your car, in conjunction with Tesla's big central computers, plans your route, just like Google Maps, but it includes the relevant superchargers based on your vehicle type and state of charge. As you travel, it monitors your state of charge, the availability of supercharger spaces, and the upcoming demand for those spaces by other Teslas. This is fully in place and operational, not some gee-whiz "real soon now" dream.

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

The whole idea of using electric long haul trucks specially in the USA and Canada is an absolute oxymoron, if it was europe or japan where weight doesn't matter that much (japan has a law restricting minimum truck weight to 40% of the maximum weight load) and the distance are short it wouldnt matter that much

you need 4 to 5 tons of batteries to get the 500 mile range that one would consider useful for long haul trucking, considering you move ice cream at 9 cents per ton km you are loosing 45,000 U$D per year considering the truck goes 100,000KM a year, in long haul trucking in NA the weight matters a lot, a Great Dane 53 foot semitrailer weight 6 tons, it doesn't matter if is 20,000U$D cheaper to fuel if is more expensive to buy and makes 45,000U$D less money

The trucking industry is dominated by 5 brands, Volvo, Volkswagen, Paccar, Daimler, Fiat, all the other ones are either subsidiares or have long dissapeared from long haul (Stirling, GMC), and for good reasons, they have an establisher leadership, stablished customers, and brand confidence in industrial stuff

no one gives a fuck if your 18 wheeler is fast or gots a billion horsepower, no one cares if it looks futuristic, no one gives a fuck how much hi-tech it got, they only care that is relatively cheap to run,reliable and that it gots resale value, why do you think tesla hasn't jump on the electric bus market? because is already taken by Volvo VAG and Daimler,

The place of electric trucks is regional, 200 miles or less, where theres a lot of start stop, and weight isn't such a concern, Paccar, Volvo and Daimler already got an advantadge there, since they are actually making and selling EV regional trucks,  long haul electric not gonna happen until 2030s with fluoride ion batteries, and thats supposing Synthetic diesel from natural gas doesn't become a thing

Edited December 14, 2020 by Sebastian Meana

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

8 hours ago, Sebastian Meana said:

you need 4 to 5 tons of batteries to get the 500 mile range that one would consider useful for long haul trucking

This may be true: I have no idea. According to Google, a semi tractor weighs  25,000 pounds and carries 150 gallons of diesel, (about 1,000 pounds), so start at 13 tons. The motor, drivetrain and associated stuff on a diesel truck is heavier than that of an electric truck. It seems that the incremental weight will not be a big percentage, and the Wh/kg for batteries is improving.

I agree that long-haul EV semis may not make sense, but not for this specific reason.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

17 hours ago, Dan Clemmensen said:

This may be true: I have no idea. According to Google, a semi tractor weighs  25,000 pounds and carries 150 gallons of diesel, (about 1,000 pounds), so start at 13 tons. The motor, drivetrain and associated stuff on a diesel truck is heavier than that of an electric truck. It seems that the incremental weight will not be a big percentage, and the Wh/kg for batteries is improving.

I agree that long-haul EV semis may not make sense, but not for this specific reason.

Actually that Telsa tractor would be a dream come true to many local heavy distribution centers. I dont think to many people are aware of how many heavy trucks just run around the city making deliveries. 

Tesla got caught with a fantastic concept here at the price point they put it at, it was battery cost and demand, one could easily see orders to magnitude of 50,000 in the first yrs of production. As far as i now understand it right now....it is dead...its a cheap selling batteries thing..rumor has it.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

10 hours ago, Dan Clemmensen said:

This may be true: I have no idea. According to Google, a semi tractor weighs  25,000 pounds and carries 150 gallons of diesel, (about 1,000 pounds), so start at 13 tons. The motor, drivetrain and associated stuff on a diesel truck is heavier than that of an electric truck. It seems that the incremental weight will not be a big percentage, and the Wh/kg for batteries is improving.

I agree that long-haul EV semis may not make sense, but not for this specific reason.

When i was calculating that you need 5 tons of batteries i was actually being optimistic, most really expensive-high quality 21700 batteries have a density of 210Wh/Kg, and i used 250Wh/Kg for the numbers, without counting the miscellaneous, like the battery cabling, cooling system, or enclouse of the pack

The tractor is generally the truck alone in the US they weight more or less 15,000 pounds, plus the trailer weight, depending on what you use it for, if you wan't lets say, carry 65 tons in south america on shitty roads the tractor is going to weight 28,000 pounds for all the reinforcement you need in the frame, the double frame, the hub reduction axles, the reinfroced front axles, so on and so for.

The engine, and drivetrain on a diesel truck is heavier sure, but not that much, you still want a gearbox on a EV because electric motors have a "sweet spot range" they don't have full power all the time, much less full efficiency across all RPMs you can attach your electric motors directly to the axle sure, but is better to have a gearbox, reason why the taycan with less power and more weight crushes the Tesla model S in drag races is thanks to the gearbox, nevermind if it had one for each axle.

A danfoss editron motor for transport applications weight 210 to 390KG, and the 6 speed eaton gearbox for electric buses is more or less 273KG, your electric drivetrain will then weight 1326KG to match the 500KW of a 15 liter engine without loosing efficiency or durability (bigger motors  are just better) , while the entire drivetrain on the Cummins X15 with the 18 speed fuller is around 1650KG, in a realistic scenario weight savings for the entire drivetrain is 325KG, not that much,

[Boat + 1,315]

19 hours ago, Sebastian Meana said:

The whole idea of using electric long haul trucks specially in the USA and Canada is an absolute oxymoron, if it was europe or japan where weight doesn't matter that much (japan has a law restricting minimum truck weight to 40% of the maximum weight load) and the distance are short it wouldnt matter that much

you need 4 to 5 tons of batteries to get the 500 mile range that one would consider useful for long haul trucking, considering you move ice cream at 9 cents per ton km you are loosing 45,000 U$D per year considering the truck goes 100,000KM a year, in long haul trucking in NA the weight matters a lot, a Great Dane 53 foot semitrailer weight 6 tons, it doesn't matter if is 20,000U$D cheaper to fuel if is more expensive to buy and makes 45,000U$D less money

The trucking industry is dominated by 5 brands, Volvo, Volkswagen, Paccar, Daimler, Fiat, all the other ones are either subsidiares or have long dissapeared from long haul (Stirling, GMC), and for good reasons, they have an establisher leadership, stablished customers, and brand confidence in industrial stuff

no one gives a fuck if your 18 wheeler is fast or gots a billion horsepower, no one cares if it looks futuristic, no one gives a fuck how much hi-tech it got, they only care that is relatively cheap to run,reliable and that it gots resale value, why do you think tesla hasn't jump on the electric bus market? because is already taken by Volvo VAG and Daimler,

The place of electric trucks is regional, 200 miles or less, where theres a lot of start stop, and weight isn't such a concern, Paccar, Volvo and Daimler already got an advantadge there, since they are actually making and selling EV regional trucks,  long haul electric not gonna happen until 2030s with fluoride ion batteries, and thats supposing Synthetic diesel from natural gas doesn't become a thing

So in 2019 there were around 2,000 electric trucks in the US. In one month truck sales hit 40,000 which was a record. Lol EV penetration is like the size of fly shut. Nobody controls anything

This is why Tesla is interesting. They may be the first electric truck to actually crack that market. 
 

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/class-8-truck-orders-top-40000-in-october-a-2-year-high/amp

Edited December 15, 2020 by Boat

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

4 hours ago, Boat said:

So in 2019 there were around 2,000 electric trucks in the US. In one month truck sales hit 40,000 which was a record. Lol EV penetration is like the size of fly shut. Nobody controls anything

This is why Tesla is interesting. They may be the first electric truck to actually crack that market. 
 

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/class-8-truck-orders-top-40000-in-october-a-2-year-high/amp

Never going to happen until a battery can be constructed with materials that are abundant and cost effective...meant cheap.

This tractor was brilliant, yet only battery availability/cost is holding it back. As of to date the US by itself invested trillions, and still no practical implementation has occurred.

Where would the world be if trillions were invested into fusion tech? In a by far different place.

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

On 12/15/2020 at 11:20 AM, Boat said:

So in 2019 there were around 2,000 electric trucks in the US. In one month truck sales hit 40,000 which was a record. Lol EV penetration is like the size of fly shut. Nobody controls anything

This is why Tesla is interesting. They may be the first electric truck to actually crack that market. 
 

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/class-8-truck-orders-top-40000-in-october-a-2-year-high/amp

Is just a fancy looking truck,

you know why the ford falcon was a much larger sucess compared with the chevrolet corvair? sure the corvair was cooler, it had a air cooled read mounted flat-6 engine, but you know what? in the first year the Falcon sold half a million units, well over twice as much as the corvair, and is a simple reason, for your mythical 1960s Average American who wanted a car, just a car, a simple car, they didn't buy the corvair they went to ford, casue they sold the ultimate average american family car

equally, Volvo or Freightliner don't care that much, (yet) about 800 miles battery or long haul 1000 horsepower trucks, they know that half of their Class 8 sales are for regional haul day cab trucks that barely make 200 miles a day, and volvo is going to sell to fleets not a unproven spaceship from a company that looks like a ponzi scheme pumped with pension fund money, they will sell them the ultimate average regional electric truck

[Boat + 1,315]

https://e360.yale.edu/features/in-boost-for-renewables-grid-scale-battery-storage-is-on-the-rise
 

Holy cow. Looks like Calif is installing 900 MW of battery storage as we speak or in 2021. Looks like the infamous duck curve is being flattened.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Boat

[Boat + 1,315]

3 hours ago, Sebastian Meana said:

Is just a fancy looking truck,

you know why the ford falcon was a much larger sucess compared with the chevrolet corvair? sure the corvair was cooler, it had a air cooled read mounted flat-6 engine, but you know what? in the first year the Falcon sold half a million units, well over twice as much as the corvair, and is a simple reason, for your mythical 1960s Average American who wanted a car, just a car, a simple car, they didn't buy the corvair they went to ford, casue they sold the ultimate average american family car

equally, Volvo or Freightliner don't care that much, (yet) about 800 miles battery or long haul 1000 horsepower trucks, they know that half of their Class 8 sales are for regional haul day cab trucks that barely make 200 miles a day, and volvo is going to sell to fleets not a unproven spaceship from a company that looks like a ponzi scheme pumped with pension fund money, they will sell them the ultimate average regional electric truck

No use fact checking a Trump like tweet. Diesel trucks you buy and then buy fuel. A Tesla semi is reported to save on fuel costs enough to pay it off in two years. We’ll see in a couple of years. Their building the factory now. Go watch “battery day” on YouTube.

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

18 hours ago, Boat said:

No use fact checking a Trump like tweet. Diesel trucks you buy and then buy fuel. A Tesla semi is reported to save on fuel costs enough to pay it off in two years. We’ll see in a couple of years. Their building the factory now. Go watch “battery day” on YouTube.

Proof that i'm wrong, ¿whats the point of saving of fuel when your truck is more expensive and you can carry 5 tons less cargo? in regional stuff? no big deal,  Volvo and Daimler are not building a factory, but are actually starting to produce them if they didn't already

[dittrick63 + 1]

23 hours ago, Boat said:

https://e360.yale.edu/features/in-boost-for-renewables-grid-scale-battery-storage-is-on-the-rise
 

Holy cow. Looks like Calif is installing 900 MW of battery storage as we speak or in 2021. Looks like the infamous duck curve is being flattened.

 

2000 mwh or 2 gwh to be ready for peak demand in late summer of next year. They need more like 1000 gwh or 1 twh to truly flatten demand depending on how you figure it. True flattening is not really necessary they just need to load ship enough solar to cover evening hours.

[dittrick63 + 1]

On 12/14/2020 at 10:29 AM, Sebastian Meana said:

The whole idea of using electric long haul trucks specially in the USA and Canada is an absolute oxymoron, if it was europe or japan where weight doesn't matter that much (japan has a law restricting minimum truck weight to 40% of the maximum weight load) and the distance are short it wouldnt matter that much

you need 4 to 5 tons of batteries to get the 500 mile range that one would consider useful for long haul trucking, considering you move ice cream at 9 cents per ton km you are loosing 45,000 U$D per year considering the truck goes 100,000KM a year, in long haul trucking in NA the weight matters a lot, a Great Dane 53 foot semitrailer weight 6 tons, it doesn't matter if is 20,000U$D cheaper to fuel if is more expensive to buy and makes 45,000U$D less money

The trucking industry is dominated by 5 brands, Volvo, Volkswagen, Paccar, Daimler, Fiat, all the other ones are either subsidiares or have long dissapeared from long haul (Stirling, GMC), and for good reasons, they have an establisher leadership, stablished customers, and brand confidence in industrial stuff

no one gives a fuck if your 18 wheeler is fast or gots a billion horsepower, no one cares if it looks futuristic, no one gives a fuck how much hi-tech it got, they only care that is relatively cheap to run,reliable and that it gots resale value, why do you think tesla hasn't jump on the electric bus market? because is already taken by Volvo VAG and Daimler,

The place of electric trucks is regional, 200 miles or less, where theres a lot of start stop, and weight isn't such a concern, Paccar, Volvo and Daimler already got an advantadge there, since they are actually making and selling EV regional trucks,  long haul electric not gonna happen until 2030s with fluoride ion batteries, and thats supposing Synthetic diesel from natural gas doesn't become a thing

The new 4680 cell is 380 wh/kg. The tesla semi with a new 4680 cells gives 1 mwh battery gives a range just north of 600 miles. a class 8 is 80,000 lbs or just under 36300 kg. That battery weighs 2632 kg. A typical tractor weighs about 7700 kg with 24% or 1851 kg tied up in the power train. 300 pounds of diesel is 965 kg typical class eight diesel full of fuel and with a light trailer weighs about 14500 kg. leaving about 21800 kg for cargo. But the most common configuration limits cargo to 34000 lbs per tandem axle or 15400 kg per trailer. A diesel tractor 14500 kg - 965 kg -1851 kg leaves 11684 kg. Add the battery weight 11684 kg +2632 kg  = 14316 kg. The last item to be added is the electric power train. This should be much smaller than diesel for two reasons one electric motors are much smaller and lighter than diesel motors. The four electric motors power the wheels  directly.  So there is no transmission or differential. I don't think half the weight of diesel powertrain is reasonable but I am just guessing. That leaves 14316 kg + 926 kg = 15242 kg. compared to 14500 kg or 742 kg difference. If only pulling 1 trailer it makes no difference in cargo. With a second trailer you can pull 21058 kg with Tesla semi compared to 21800 kg with a diesel truck.  A typical class 8 truck is 117,000. A tesla semi is 180,000. Fueling costs depend on jurisdiction but tesla runs their chargers near cost. A megawatt of new renewables is under 20 wholesale. This does ignore land costs which vary greatly. A regional distributor could build a central charging station on or near their plant and pay a little over that for all charging there. Thirty dollars for 600 miles of fuel fully loaded with two trailers  will be awesome. I expect around 100-200 dollars would be more common for public charging though much lower is possible once the market is saturated. 

[dittrick63 + 1]

One other note acceleration is not important but traveling at full speed uphill will save time on steep grades. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,131]

5 hours ago, dittrick63 said:

The new 4680 cell is 380 wh/kg.

No its not.  It has same Wh/Kg as Tesla model 3.  Exact same.  By going tabless Elon says it will save 15% over Model 3 battery. 

So, If they can make the 4680 cells tabless, they will be 15% higher energy density. 

Elon on battery day then went into possibilities using higher silicon content etc which might, uh hem, MIGHT, in  5-->10 years become production which would increase energy density by another ~25%.  In other words, they have lab samples, but cannot mass manufacture them as it is cost prohibitive or they have no idea currently how to mass produce them. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,131]

5 hours ago, dittrick63 said:

a class 8 is 80,000 lbs or just under 36300 kg.Typical tractor weighs about 7700 kg with 24% or 1851 kg tied up in the power train. 300 pounds of diesel is 965 kg typical class eight diesel full of fuel and with a light trailer weighs about 14500 kg. leaving about 21800 kg for cargo. But the most common configuration limits cargo to 34000 lbs per tandem axle or 15400 kg per trailer. A diesel tractor 14500 kg - 965 kg -1851 kg leaves 11684 kg. Add the battery weight 11684 kg +2632 kg  = 14316 kg. The last item to be added is the electric power train. This should be much smaller than diesel for two reasons one electric motors are much smaller and lighter than diesel motors. The four electric motors power the wheels  directly.  So there is no transmission or differential. I don't think half the weight of diesel powertrain is reasonable but I am just guessing. That leaves 14316 kg + 926 kg = 15242 kg. compared to 14500 kg or 742 kg difference. If only pulling 1 trailer it makes no difference in cargo. With a second trailer you can pull 21058 kg with Tesla semi compared to 21800 kg with a diesel truck.  A typical class 8 truck is 117,000. A tesla semi is 180,000. Fueling costs depend on jurisdiction but tesla runs their chargers near cost. A megawatt of new renewables is under 20 wholesale. This does ignore land costs which vary greatly. A regional distributor could build a central charging station on or near their plant and pay a little over that for all charging there. Thirty dollars for 600 miles of fuel fully loaded with two trailers  will be awesome. I expect around 100-200 dollars would be more common for public charging though much lower is possible once the market is saturated. 

A typical trailer is no more than 10,000lbs(4500kg), often 8000.  Refrigerated insulated 53ft trailers will be ~12,000-->15,000lbs in extreme.  A 53ft international container + trailer will be ~10,000 +8000-->9000? rails for a ~19,000lbs. 

2 TEU container max is 30,500kg(67,000lbs).  2 TEU(40ft) Container tare can be as low as ~3000kg.  According to your "calculation" no one is allowed to haul a standard 2 TEU container... Uh.... 🙄

Your axle definition is WAY off as you divided by 2 for some reason.  You have the dual 34,000lb limit tractor tandem axles, and the trailer tandem axles = 68,000lbs.  Then you have 3rd axles and even 4th axles which ups the ante even more.  If I recall correctly, a tridem is as low as 50,000lbs.  A truck can easily be hauling 30,500kg of cargo plus trailer on the regular(so roughly 35,000kg), not your stated 21,000kg(standard 18 wheeler container which is low as most trucking is done via 53ft trailers), so 35,000kg when hauling a standard 2 "TEU" container + trailer. Of course "standard" 2 TEU containers have gone goodbye as they have all been replaced with 48ft and 53ft containers.  Making a mess for the international shippers. 

And yes, you will have a transmission/differential with electric.  For efficiency reasons alone you will have one.  Especially for the short haul trucks which are most likely to be turned electric.  It is why nearly all electric vehicles today have one.  Only the super expensive Sport Tesla 3 and S models have multiple motors.  True, a transmission will be cheaper than separate motors, but lighter?  Doubtful.  Look upthread for what is happening on electric buses.  They are not saving any significant weight worth mentioning. 

I have a bridge to sell you if you wish to play make believe that the Government is not going to tax the hell out of TESLA's chargers per kWH or anyone else's regional installed hub to pay for road taxes.  Norway already is, making it MORE expensive to drive electric than ICE in some instances... Currently in the USA road taxes =~ $0.60c/gallon.  Trucking gets? ~10mi/gallon = 6c/mile in taxes.  So whatever equivalent in $$$/kWh for road taxes will be applied.  Currently my guestimate is that every kWh will have a 3c/kWh tax applied as trucks will require roughly 2kWh/mile to travel.  2 things are always true in life, death and taxes.  Government ALWAYS gets their cut.  Always. 

The taxes will get paid, one way or another. 

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

On 12/17/2020 at 7:26 PM, dittrick63 said:

The new 4680 cell is 380 wh/kg.

Well, that's what elon says, the increased energy density is if they are going for a tabless battery, if they dont manage a tabless battery is going to be exactly the same as any li-ion battery, 250Wh/kg in average (more if is new)
 

On 12/17/2020 at 7:26 PM, dittrick63 said:

A megawatt of new renewables is under 20 wholesale.

Is not, i would love where you get that number, most solar farms across the world cost 1000U$D per KW of capacity,capacity factor, transmission costs, charging station and you end if you are lucky 70U$D/MWh before taxes, it will get to 100U$D/MWh once the government like norway starts taxing ev's, taxes are always paid, always

[Boat + 1,315]

On 12/14/2020 at 12:29 PM, Sebastian Meana said:

The whole idea of using electric long haul trucks specially in the USA and Canada is an absolute oxymoron, if it was europe or japan where weight doesn't matter that much (japan has a law restricting minimum truck weight to 40% of the maximum weight load) and the distance are short it wouldnt matter that much

you need 4 to 5 tons of batteries to get the 500 mile range that one would consider useful for long haul trucking, considering you move ice cream at 9 cents per ton km you are loosing 45,000 U$D per year considering the truck goes 100,000KM a year, in long haul trucking in NA the weight matters a lot, a Great Dane 53 foot semitrailer weight 6 tons, it doesn't matter if is 20,000U$D cheaper to fuel if is more expensive to buy and makes 45,000U$D less money

The trucking industry is dominated by 5 brands, Volvo, Volkswagen, Paccar, Daimler, Fiat, all the other ones are either subsidiares or have long dissapeared from long haul (Stirling, GMC), and for good reasons, they have an establisher leadership, stablished customers, and brand confidence in industrial stuff

no one gives a fuck if your 18 wheeler is fast or gots a billion horsepower, no one cares if it looks futuristic, no one gives a fuck how much hi-tech it got, they only care that is relatively cheap to run,reliable and that it gots resale value, why do you think tesla hasn't jump on the electric bus market? because is already taken by Volvo VAG and Daimler,

The place of electric trucks is regional, 200 miles or less, where theres a lot of start stop, and weight isn't such a concern, Paccar, Volvo and Daimler already got an advantadge there, since they are actually making and selling EV regional trucks,  long haul electric not gonna happen until 2030s with fluoride ion batteries, and thats supposing Synthetic diesel from natural gas doesn't become a thing

Volvo isn’t making a semi yet and is projected to have a 150 mile range when they do. Daimler sells for 400,000 compared to a Tesla which is 150,000 to 180,000. Tesla also has a longer range. Try to google before you make wild claims. This ain’t Russia.

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

14 minutes ago, Boat said:

Volvo isn’t making a semi yet and is projected to have a 150 mile range when they do. Daimler sells for 400,000 compared to a Tesla which is 150,000 to 180,000. Tesla also has a longer range. Try to google before you make wild claims. This ain’t Russia.

Neither does tesla, apart from 3 or 4 prototypes, Volvo has made electric buses for how long now? 9 years? maybe 10? How much you think will take them to produce them? they anounced it for early 2021,  And the EV buses, they sell them with batteries up to 400KWh, and the volvo electric FL in europe has been sold for like 2 years now, for regional distribution 150 miles is fine, anyway unloading the thing takes like an hour when you count the paperwork

And the 400,000U$D Cascadia was two years ago was a fancy protoype, they will likely sell those to fleets for much lower at 150U$D/KWh ,and having batteries in boxes like fuel tanks means you only need to bolt another battery pack to the side to increase range.

[Boat + 1,315]

22 minutes ago, Sebastian Meana said:

Neither does tesla, apart from 3 or 4 prototypes, Volvo has made electric buses for how long now? 9 years? maybe 10? How much you think will take them to produce them? they anounced it for early 2021,  And the EV buses, they sell them with batteries up to 400KWh, and the volvo electric FL in europe has been sold for like 2 years now, for regional distribution 150 miles is fine, anyway unloading the thing takes like an hour when you count the paperwork

And the 400,000U$D Cascadia was two years ago was a fancy protoype, they will likely sell those to fleets for much lower at 150U$D/KWh ,and having batteries in boxes like fuel tanks means you only need to bolt another battery pack to the side to increase range.

Go read, Volv is to start producing in 2021 like Tesla. But with a 150 mile range compared to Tesla at 350 and 500 depending on the battery. What do you mean most likely. At first you claimed these companies owned the market. Come to find out you know very little and make it up on the fly. 

[Boat + 1,315]

I didn’t make any claims. Just talked about the battery day presentation by Musk. If he is right Daimler and Volvo can’t compete. Or ice semi’s for that matter. 
If there is a silver lining for Musk competition is the lack of raw materials for batteries by the end of 2022. I hear they may have to go into the mining business for nickel ............... because battery material for millions of vehicals just isn’t to scale. Takes a leap of faith and billions to stay ahead of demand

Edited December 19, 2020 by Boat