ICE Engines Hear to Stay Regardless of War Against

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.wnd.com/2020/12/despite-lefts-war-fossil-fuels-internal-combustion-engine-stay/

The veracity of ICE staying power is obvious but many choose to deceive themselves and others. Ronwagn

Despite left's war on fossil fuels, internal combustion engine 'here to stay'

Analysis cites cost, power, ease of use and more

By WND News Services
Published December 6, 2020 at 7:08pm

 

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,177]

And here's another good read   About 150 US Cadillac dealers to exit brand, rather than sell electric cars | Fox Business

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

6 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

And here's another good read   About 150 US Cadillac dealers to exit brand, rather than sell electric cars | Fox Business

Those actions are merely testing the water's to observe the ramifications of such changes. Cadillac is a dead franchise. Perhaps a study of could and will occur if the big three attempted to make a hard push on it core dealer body. Much will be learned. Manufactures and dealers have been at odd's for many years.

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,177]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Those actions are merely testing the water's to observe the ramifications of such changes. Cadillac is a dead franchise. Perhaps a study of could and will occur if the big three attempted to make a hard push on it core dealer body. Much will be learned. Manufactures and dealers have been at odd's for many years.

Not sure why "Cadillac is a dead franchise", explain how you came to that conclusion please. I would say alot of dealers whether its a GM or Ford or Dodge will respect what the public wants and if electric cars don't come down in price folks will keep driving big SUV's with ICE engines. As long as gasoline stays range bound lower than 2.75usa$ gallon.....why not. I live in rural small town in central Illinois and did buy a Toyota Rav4 hybrid 6 months ago, it's been towed to the dealer 30 miles away because of dead battery issues twice. Wife says trade off on regular ICE please.... So a fully electric car isn't in my future anytime soon. 

[Rob Kramer + 696]

8 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

And here's another good read   About 150 US Cadillac dealers to exit brand, rather than sell electric cars | Fox Business

Because dealers only make like 2k$ per new car.  New car sales pay the overhead tax light heat ect. Used and repairs make the big $$$. So ya whats the point of loosing 50% of your revenue with more expensive cars with less trade ins and low maintenance.  Plus your techs won't be pissed off 24/7 because they can't make a days wage  and keep quitting on you making high turn over and ticked customers from slow service due to newb techs who don't know the type of shop their looking for a long term job in.

[markslawson + 1,042]

15 hours ago, ronwagn said:

https://www.wnd.com/2020/12/despite-lefts-war-fossil-fuels-internal-combustion-engine-stay/

The veracity of ICE staying power is obvious but many choose to deceive themselves and others. Ronwagn

A similar story was posted on this forum maybe a couple of weeks ago at most and I'll post much the same comment. Of course the story's right, but there is simply no telling the hard-core EV enthusiasts this. There is no evidence that EVs will be anything more than a niche market, without serious government support. In Australia, where I live, there are no concessions at all for EVs and sales are less than 1 per cent of the market. This is about what you'd expect from well-heeled greenies in a wealthy country. In Norway, in contrast, government support mainly in road tolls and taxes foregone amounts to about half the cost of the car. As a result, and I can only point to anecdotal evidence, wealthy Norwegian families have two cars - an EV for commuting and an ICE for serious travel. Poor families have to make do with aging clunkers on which they pay taxes to subsidise the EVs of the rich but who cares about the poor, right, when there is posturing over the environment to be done. Attempts to limit the sale of new cars will all sorts of unintended effects, such as boosting the used car, restoration and renovation markets. In many countries EV policies amount to unrestrained lunacy.  

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

1 hour ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Not sure why "Cadillac is a dead franchise", explain how you came to that conclusion please. I would say alot of dealers whether its a GM or Ford or Dodge will respect what the public wants and if electric cars don't come down in price folks will keep driving big SUV's with ICE engines. As long as gasoline stays range bound lower than 2.75usa$ gallon.....why not. I live in rural small town in central Illinois and did buy a Toyota Rav4 hybrid 6 months ago, it's been towed to the dealer 30 miles away because of dead battery issues twice. Wife says trade off on regular ICE please.... So a fully electric car isn't in my future anytime soon. 

It can be a incredibly complex answer yet at the same time quite basic the money is gone..The market is gone. I will call upon your common sense to bring some clarity to my statement....below

 

TODAY IN GROUND BREAKING NEWS THE US GOVERNMENT ANNOUCES A 7500 DOLLAR CASH INCENTIVE ON ALL CADIALLACS OVER $80,000 DOLLARS.

Related News: Tesla Motors stk falls 35% today with the news the US govt ends all financial incentives on all EV Tech.

I can assure you Tesla motor's would silently go into the night and Cadillac would become a over night sensation.

They say its all about location when in fact it is all about the money.

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,177]

19 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

TODAY IN GROUND BREAKING NEWS THE US GOVERNMENT ANNOUCES A 7500 DOLLAR CASH INCENTIVE ON ALL CADIALLACS OVER $80,000 DOLLARS.

Luxury SUV's and cars of that cost is a good write off for business class folks. Sure in few years it will be worth half but that's not the point. At least if it has mechanical issues warranties are decent and fairly Local. Find a Tesla dealer where to take your dead car. For me I would assume Chicago is nearest mechanic to work on a Tesla. GM/Cadillac dealer 25 miles from me. My zip is 61523

Edited December 8, 2020 by Old-Ruffneck
add

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

16 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Luxury SUV's and cars of that cost is a good write off for business class folks. Sure in few years it will be worth half but that's not the point. At least if it has mechanical issues warranties are decent and fairly Local. Find a Tesla dealer where to take your dead car. For me I would assume Chicago is nearest mechanic to work on a Tesla. GM/Cadillac dealer 25 miles from me. My zip is 61523

While i do agree with to some extent, your perceptions are dated shall i say. While it is true sedans can be had for in the low 30's..They are not a Cadillac..earings on a pig comes to mind...Hence a dead franchise.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cadillac/escalade#:~:text=The 2021 Cadillac Escalade starts,carry an MSRP of %2499%2C995.

Perhaps you should take a stroll thru a Caddy dealer, much has changed.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,177]

2 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

While i do agree with to some extent, your perceptions are dated shall i say. While it is true sedans can be had for in the low 30's..They are not a Cadillac..earings on a pig comes to mind...Hence a dead franchise.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cadillac/escalade#:~:text=The 2021 Cadillac Escalade starts,carry an MSRP of %2499%2C995.

Perhaps you should take a stroll thru a Caddy dealer, much has changed.

Not interested in Caddies, maybe a 73 Eldorado ragtop 🙂  I have a 19 3/4 Chevy Truck with diesel and is LTZ longbed. 65k Got a 18 350 Ford truck fully loaded diesel that was 74k. The 16 250 Lariat I gave my foreman almost 3 years back. I need trucks in my business, not SUV's or cars. I am set for awhile, Illinois winter salt eats em up fast enough.....I do like to have nice trucks so that's my market. New Ford dually Platinum 350 runs around 90k now....plain one no frills 70k.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

2 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Not interested in Caddies, maybe a 73 Eldorado ragtop 🙂  I have a 19 3/4 Chevy Truck with diesel and is LTZ longbed. 65k Got a 18 350 Ford truck fully loaded diesel that was 74k. The 16 250 Lariat I gave my foreman almost 3 years back. I need trucks in my business, not SUV's or cars. I am set for awhile, Illinois winter salt eats em up fast enough.....I do like to have nice trucks so that's my market. New Ford dually Platinum 350 runs around 90k now....plain one no frills 70k.

I do understand that quite well, Ford actually took a direction of selling trucks only for awhile. Cars just did not pencil a path forward..meaning not nearly as profitable. As of late the family has became involved and they are changing that direction. 

Its really amusing to watch this green revolution, soon they will back themselves into a corner of which there is no escape. One just has to let it play out, there will be a lot of financial pain, i do not see a GM in the next 5 yrs unless they make a very abrupt change in direction.

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

13 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

And here's another good read   About 150 US Cadillac dealers to exit brand, rather than sell electric cars | Fox Business

This is one of every six dealerships, which sounds bad. But the underlying story is that a dealership had to commit to the purchase of $200,000 of new diagnostic equipment and had to train their technicians on their own dime. So what really happened was the smallest one-sixth of the dealerships decided that this did not make economic sense.  This is more about the elimination of small dealerships than it is about EVs.

On the other side of the equation, GM/Cadillac is very late to the luxury EV market. The dealers know that Tesla already completely owns that market, and trying to win against Tesla and Tesla's non-dealership sales approach is unlikely to work.

Finally, Cadillac's customer demographic is still fairly weighted toward retired folks, and many of these are fairly set in their ways and unlikely to buy an EV in the first place.

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

16 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It can be a incredibly complex answer yet at the same time quite basic the money is gone..The market is gone. I will call upon your common sense to bring some clarity to my statement....below

 

TODAY IN GROUND BREAKING NEWS THE US GOVERNMENT ANNOUCES A 7500 DOLLAR CASH INCENTIVE ON ALL CADIALLACS OVER $80,000 DOLLARS.

Related News: Tesla Motors stk falls 35% today with the news the US govt ends all financial incentives on all EV Tech.

I can assure you Tesla motor's would silently go into the night and Cadillac would become a over night sensation.

They say its all about location when in fact it is all about the money.

Teslas are no longer eligible for the $7500 Federal rebate. It ended almost 2 years ago, in early January 2019. Tesla sales have continued to increase dramatically. Tesla sells all they can manufacture: There is essentially no inventory of unsold Teslas.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

59 minutes ago, Dan Clemmensen said:

Teslas are no longer eligible for the $7500 Federal rebate. It ended almost 2 years ago, in early January 2019. Tesla sales have continued to increase dramatically. Tesla sells all they can manufacture: There is essentially no inventory of unsold Teslas.

Actually California sales of Telsa and EVs have dropped by 17 %. Let us start to be more transparent about such matters. This fad is ending, and it is a fad. 

I am not against EV tech, yet going down a empty rabbit hole merely for the thrill of it can no longer be sustained. 

As to incentives California residents now enjoy up to 13500 dollar's In green dollar's. Am I to assume that is fake news?

Edited December 8, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Actually California sales of Telsa and EVs have dropped by 17 %. Let us start to be more transparent about such matters. This fad is ending, and it is a fad. 

I am not against EV tech, yet going down a empty rabbit hole merely for the thrill of it can no longer be sustained. 

Sales of all vehicle types fell dramatically this year in California, due to Covid-19. Sales of Teslas fell less than others, and the loss of sales was primarily due to the six-week Covid-19 factory shutdown.

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

4 hours ago, Dan Clemmensen said:

Teslas are no longer eligible for the $7500 Federal rebate. It ended almost 2 years ago, in early January 2019. Tesla sales have continued to increase dramatically. Tesla sells all they can manufacture: There is essentially no inventory of unsold Teslas.

You are correct Tesla now has 3750, or did i miss read a smidge.

https://www.cars.com/articles/which-electric-cars-are-still-eligible-for-the-7500-federal-tax-credit-429824/

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

You are correct Tesla now has 3750, or did i miss read a smidge.

https://www.cars.com/articles/which-electric-cars-are-still-eligible-for-the-7500-federal-tax-credit-429824/

I never knew how that works. No plans to buy one. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

32 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I never knew how that works. No plans to buy one. 

Around 2021/2022 expect a very negative trend in EV's. Those should be the yrs there dumped onto the used market. One can easily say a 50/60% drop in value if not more, there is no support within the industry for used EV's. Go blo GM/Ford/Toyota etc etc are not going to service used EV's, but their well may be a cottage industry that springs up to meet the need. 

Then there is the traction motor issues and the electronics to support the system once out of warranty...Actually that is interesting Telsa should be required to support their vehicles for 10 plus yrs with parts...It will be a @@@@ show that is or sure.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?bounds=59.13997561166579%2C-47.24585369519833%2C29.29039321290932%2C-142.09742263249996&zoom=4&filters=store%2Cservice%2Csupercharger

Edited December 8, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

3 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

You are correct Tesla now has 3750, or did i miss read a smidge.

https://www.cars.com/articles/which-electric-cars-are-still-eligible-for-the-7500-federal-tax-credit-429824/

You misread it. According to the article (and my experience) the credit for Teslas has fully expired.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 12/7/2020 at 6:53 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

While i do agree with to some extent, your perceptions are dated shall i say. While it is true sedans can be had for in the low 30's..They are not a Cadillac..earings on a pig comes to mind...Hence a dead franchise.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cadillac/escalade#:~:text=The 2021 Cadillac Escalade starts,carry an MSRP of %2499%2C995.

Perhaps you should take a stroll thru a Caddy dealer, much has changed.

I paid $41,000 for my Nissan 3500 which is not nearly as luxurious and rides like a pickup. It is much larger though, has the usual amenities plus twelve leather seats. It probably will have fewer problems over its lifespan. I just admired an Escalade at my church'es parking lot this Sunday. 

[nsdp + 449]

I would not be so sure about the ICE staying around. Unless you are Amish  I haven't seen a horse/mule and buggy as a daily ride since about 1954. My grandfather had a buggy and mule. Second  how many steam trains or  steam farm tractors have you seen operating in the last 60 years. WTA&M has a 1909 JI Case steam thresher they still run once a year.  When I was a kid the Chessie used to run Lima Greenbriar 4-8-4 locomotives for passengers  until 1955. UP ran ALCO Big Boy 4-8-8-4's  over the mountains in Wyoming and Utah until 1959.   No reason why, like the railroads, automakers will not change with the times.  after all Stanley Steamers stopped being made in the 1910's.  Remember the US is now the Number 2 auto market in the world.   We no longer have the big stick.

[frankfurter + 562]

On 12/7/2020 at 2:54 PM, ronwagn said:

https://www.wnd.com/2020/12/despite-lefts-war-fossil-fuels-internal-combustion-engine-stay/

The veracity of ICE staying power is obvious but many choose to deceive themselves and others. Ronwagn

Despite left's war on fossil fuels, internal combustion engine 'here to stay'

Analysis cites cost, power, ease of use and more

By WND News Services
Published December 6, 2020 at 7:08pm

 

hear to stay?  remarkable.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,617]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:25 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Around 2021/2022 expect a very negative trend in EV'

I actually think the opposite 

Most countries are committed to net zero Co2 emissions by 2050 and having millions of ICE cars on the road in each country isnt going to do that!

The political will is for EV's so Ev's we will get.

Soon we wont need to even own a car as there will be driver less taxis everywhere unless you live in the middle of nowhere and that's where ICE vehicles will cling on to an ever reducing market.

There are a number of innovative companies already looking at cheaper viable alternatives than the current "buy a very expensive EV for $70K" as can be seen by the article posted on Oil Price 

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Electric-Car-Boom-Is-About-To-Get-Even-Hotter.html

There may well be a reduction in EV sales late in this decade as we all realise we actually dont need the cost outlay of a car as we can summon one on an app in 2 minutes to take us wherever we want to go. No costly outlay, no costly repairs, no costly insurance etc we only  pay for the use of a car whilst we are in it and that's all. 

Sound cheaper?

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

On 12/8/2020 at 3:25 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Around 2021/2022 expect a very negative trend in EV's. Those should be the yrs there dumped onto the used market. One can easily say a 50/60% drop in value if not more, there is no support within the industry for used EV's. Go blo GM/Ford/Toyota etc etc are not going to service used EV's, but their well may be a cottage industry that springs up to meet the need. 

Then there is the traction motor issues and the electronics to support the system once out of warranty...Actually that is interesting Telsa should be required to support their vehicles for 10 plus yrs with parts...It will be a @@@@ show that is or sure.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?bounds=59.13997561166579%2C-47.24585369519833%2C29.29039321290932%2C-142.09742263249996&zoom=4&filters=store%2Cservice%2Csupercharger

With the major exception of the battery, EV components are simpler and easier to replace than ICE-vehicle components, so I see no warranty issues, except for the battery. For example, the electric motor is much simpler to replace than an IC engine and is less likely to fail in the first place. The battery is a big deal. Early adopters will see their EV resale value drop off a cliff. However, anyone buying an EV with a nominal range when new of 300 mi will still have a marketable used EV in ten years with a range of more than 150 mi. An EV produced after about 2025 will likely have a battery that lasts for a million miles.

You are correct that EV-denying auto companies will treat their EVs and their purchasers poorly. That's basically all ICE-vehicle companies except VW and possibly Nissan. Those companies are in denial, and their EVs are "compliance vehicles" built to fulfill regulatory requirements, not to make money. Those companies (GM, Fiat-Crysler, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc.) will fade away, because they cannot catch up with Tesla's 10-year head start.

[Rob Kramer + 696]

24 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I actually think the opposite 

Most countries are committed to net zero Co2 emissions by 2050 and having millions of ICE cars on the road in each country isnt going to do that!

The political will is for EV's so Ev's we will get.

Soon we wont need to even own a car as there will be driver less taxis everywhere unless you live in the middle of nowhere and that's where ICE vehicles will cling on to an ever reducing market.

There are a number of innovative companies already looking at cheaper viable alternatives than the current "buy a very expensive EV for $70K" as can be seen by the article posted on Oil Price 

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Electric-Car-Boom-Is-About-To-Get-Even-Hotter.html

There may well be a reduction in EV sales late in this decade as we all realise we actually dont need the cost outlay of a car as we can summon one on an app in 2 minutes to take us wherever we want to go. No costly outlay, no costly repairs, no costly insurance etc we only  pay for the use of a car whilst we are in it and that's all. 

Sound cheaper?

Sounds like a pump my facedrive stock article. For everyone to have a car 2 mins away there still needs to be a car for everyone. Been over this . You expect me and my 3 kids and wife to carpool to family's on Christmas? Nope  thats called a bus already exists. Your talking 10% less cars max. Along with the % of population growth and % coming out of 3rd world cars total # goes up and can't build enough EV.