Moderna Vaccine vs Pfizer "Vaccine" . Is Moderna much better ?

[Roch + 537]

 

* * NOTE UPDATE:  (1) The Moderna Vaccine DOES provide immunity and (2) as indicated from all available information Pfizer lessens viral symptoms and protects against serious illness and  deaths but DOES NOT provide immunity or stop the infection of others.

Therefore is calling Pfizer mRNA a "Vaccine" a misnomer ?  Is it not really mRNA "Therapies" ? No immunity with Pfizer. What the "experts" don't tell us.  

* From all available reports Pfizer may decrease symptoms and prevent against serious illness and deaths , but could still spread infections. (So keep your masks on )

* Whereas MODERNA LOOKS TO PROVIDE TRUE IMMUNITY for at least 3 months. What about after that ? 

IF PFIZER IS MERELY A THERAPY AND NOT A TRUE VACCINE SHOULD WTI/Brent OIL BE TRADING IN THE $50s AT THIS TIME ? 

Do the oil markets care ? Will they when they understand ?

So when Pfizer says 95% effective they must mean  95% effective of diminishing  symptoms. Right ? Not preventing infection. Right ?

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/12/covid-19-vaccines-transmission.html

OPINION

With Pfizer not providing actual immunity and Moderna providing immunity for possibly just 3 months my questions are :

While these pharmaceutics are helpful and provide hope

(a) Are these so called vaccines not the panacea we are lead to believe ?  Does this prolong the economic and oil market recovery beyond today's general understanding ?

(b) Are the "experts" concerned about 3rd and 4th waves or a more deadly virus mutations and therefore throwing everything and anything against the wall to see what sticks regardless of costs ? Emergency Use Authorization given because even with long term possible complication the chance of a serious mutation could cause catastrophic harm ? 

(c) Is that why Fauci says even after vaccinated we must continue to wear masks and social distance ? 

All this might explain the changing rules and lack of transparency. Let's hope not. 

 

THIRD WAVE / FOURTH WAVE 

California reports THIRD WAVE of infections.  Some virologist fear a 4th WAVE this Winter/Spring

MUTATIONS

UK has reported a new mutated version of the virus south of London that they believe is more deadly. (Remember the Second mutation of the 1918 Spanish Flu was the deadly one). How come Dr. Fauci and other virologist never mention mutations ? Update 12/19: Some European nations banning Airline flights from UK because of New viral mutation.

NO CORNERS CUT

When politicians, Medical Doctors (not Dr of Education) and Media tell you " No Corners Were Cut" they are either misinformed or lying.  Because :

(1) The Pfizer mRNA trials ONLY tested for symptomatic cases. 

(2) The Pfizer trial did not monitor or look for asymptomatic cases.

(3) The Pfizer trial did not test to assess if either symptomatic or asymptomatic decrease or eliminate the vaccinated to pass the virus on.

(4) No "challenge" trial whereby volunteers were vaccinated and then subjected /exposed to the virus. The participants just went on with their normal routine.

(3) The Pfizer trials did not monitor the participants for a minimum of two years post the Second injection. That's needed because some of the most serious complications possible from mRNA Vaccines (hyper inflammation, autoimmune response, blood clots, others) do not show up for two or more years.  

LONGTERM SAFETY CONCERNS UNKNOWN

The mRNA longterm concerns are (1) autoimmune disorders , (2) hyper-inflammatory response, (3) blood clots , (4) immune interference , (5) runaway protein replication, (6) unintended protein develop (7) women pregnancy complications etc, etc (see 5 possible complications details below

This explains why over the past week Dr. Fauci has been preaching that even with the so called vaccine one has to continue to wear masks, social distance, no gatherings, no travel, etc

Why doesn't Fauci be upfront with us and explain what is really happening ?

PFIZER vs MODERNA vs ASTRA ZENECA 

 

This begs the questions , (1)whereas Astra Zenaca "vaccine" is the "old fashion" derived vaccine does it provide real immunity ?  (2) Where MODERNA  claims they do provide immunity , thus not infecting others 

Is Pfizer mRNA a waist of time and money ($Tens of Billions)

Pfizer will produce 1.4 Billion doses in 2021.  ( 1.5 B x $20 = $30,000,000,000.  Is is worth it.   

Is there any way possible to increase Moderna mfg 2X ? 3X ?

What do the scientist say about the probability of more "waves" and more virulent covid ? Do we need to try everything ?

Then how do you replace the doses ? 

Is the U.S. regulators being transparent with us ?

UK MUTATION

yes viruses mutate all the time, but all mutations are not the same.  THE UK MUTATION IS RELAYED TO THE SPIKE PROTEIN THEREFORE THE CONCERN. 

" Mutations that are related to the spike protein can affect the dynamics of the disease, seeing as it is a deciding factor in the infection process. For example, the mutation might affect the ways in which the virus connects with cells in the respiratory system,” Moran-Gilan said, emphasizing that this looks like the most probable negative consequence that could arise from the new UK strain.

 

“That’s what doctors in England are currently most worried about. It has not yet been proven, but there is circumstantial evidence that suggests that might be the case,” he said."

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Roch

[El Nikko + 2,145]

I'll take mine after all of the ticktock nurses have had theirs

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by El Nikko

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Oh noes a down vote.

I've never worn a mask either, not even once 😂

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

That was stage fright and she admits she faints easy.   Of course the anti-vaccine crowd spreads sensationalist misinformation.

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Enthalpic

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Just now, Enthalpic said:

That was stage fright and she admits she faints easy.   Of course the anti-vaccine crowd spreads sensationalist misinformation.

 

I'm not anti-vaccine at all, had a few over the years

I just don't care about a coof that isn't particularly deadly....unless you are close to death with multiple morbidities.

You take it, you are then apparently protected why should you care what I do.

Also I am not a complete wimp

[specinho + 440]

1 hour ago, Roch said:

IF PFIZER IS MERELY A THERAPY AND NOT A TRUE VACCINE SHOULD WTI/Brent OIL BE TRADING IN THE $50s AT THIS TIME ? 

Do the oil markets care ? Will they when they understand ?

So when Pfizer says 95% effective they must mean  95% effective of diminishing  symptoms. Right ? Not preventing infection. Right ?

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/12/covid-19-vaccines-transmission.html

1. As long as people need transportation for the vaccine and/or gasified or petrolified fridges to keep them, oil market cares and understands that oil and gas prices will increase because there is a demand??.............     ..............................

2. vaccine that doesn't prevent a disease but diminish the symptoms...........

According to an article posted by someone a few weeks ago, there might be reasons to believe that placebo cases show very promising result in trials done by all companies ........... Reaching 100% effectiveness or so............

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/tennessee-nurse-passes-out-front-news-crew-minutes-after-taking-covid-19-vaccine

"She told WRCBtv that this is 'not an uncommon reaction for her,' explaining "I have a history of having an over-reactive vagal response, and so with that if I have pain from anything, hangnail or if I stub my toe, I can just pass out.""

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

5 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

I'm not anti-vaccine at all, had a few over the years

I just don't care about a coof that isn't particularly deadly....unless you are close to death with multiple morbidities.

You take it, you are then apparently protected why should you care what I do.

Also I am not a complete wimp

Getting a vaccine does not make one a wimp.  If anything wimps fear the vaccine. My tough body can process poison like it's nothing. Chuck Norris donated me a portion of his liver.  Vaccines fear me.

It is killing plenty of people.   It is not a mild cough, do not spread misinformation.

I won't even have the option to get the vaccine for along time.  Furthermore, whether or not I personally take it has nothing to do with the science.

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Enthalpic

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Please explain your statement " has nothing to do with the science." You are usually all about the "science." 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

26 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Please explain your statement " has nothing to do with the science." You are usually all about the "science." 

I personally do things that do not make logical sense.  I understand that so do not want to use my behaviour as an example for others.

Do as science says, not as I do.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

I keep my options open up to the last minute. We just scored RXs for Ivermectin so not in a rush for the vaccine any more. Will watch for results on the other folks older and with more issues than me. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

10 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I keep my options open up to the last minute. We just scored RXs for Ivermectin so not in a rush for the vaccine any more. Will watch for results on the other folks older and with more issues than me. 

The vaccine is essentially not an option for me. Canada is only getting 125,000 doses a week.  At that rate, and my place in line, I will never be offered this batch / formulation of shots.

What are the instructions provided with the ivermectin?  Dosage?  If you don't mind sharing.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

4 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I keep my options open up to the last minute. We just scored RXs for Ivermectin so not in a rush for the vaccine any more. Will watch for results on the other folks older and with more issues than me. 

Excellent Ron! 

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 12/19/2020 at 7:55 PM, ronwagn said:

I keep my options open up to the last minute. We just scored RXs for Ivermectin so not in a rush for the vaccine any more. Will watch for results on the other folks older and with more issues than me. 

Just make sure you know how and when to use it.

[Bob D + 562]

I had COVID.  Tested Positive Oct 18 and Negative Nov 12.  The Negative result was 3 days after no symptoms.

I guess I'm immune for a couple months.  I'll take a vaccine when available but given the info that started the thread I have a quandary.

The goal of a vaccine is to make you immune.  That eliminates Pfizer's vaccine.  How is this even considered a vaccine.  But I am very wary of any DNA based vaccines so Moderna's vaccine is not the winner.  Therefore the quandary.    

 

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

1 hour ago, Bob D said:

The goal of a vaccine is to make you immune.

We are about 9 weeks into the Covid vaccine trials.  Currently we are on Phase 3 of the trials which will not end for more than 2 years.  Then, they will start to collect data.  They project that in 4 years they will have published studies about the vaccine trials. 

The Covid Trial Design Objective was not immunity, nor to stop the spread of infection, nor to prevent a recipient from being hospitalized.  The objective was to attenuate symptoms of Covid.  That Phase 3 criteria gave a vaccine a pass to be placed before the FDA for approval via the "Emergency Use" clause.

The PCR tests are highly unreliable unless they are timed correctly upon an infection (certain number of days after the beginning of symptoms) and the "cycle #" is somewhere at least below 32 (per Fauci in a July interview), but the inventor of the PCR tests said that they are not meant for a diagnosis of a virus.  Most PCR tests are at around 45 cycles which make them useless at best.

Symptoms are the best criteria for diagnosis.  Especially the lung issue (e.g. "ground glass" view of X-ray).

There's a chance that if you had Covid, then you have T-Cell immunity for life.

T-cell immunity exists for many people, especially younger people with large Thymus glands.  Old people...their Thymus has shrunk to almost nothing.  The lymphocytes and immune recognition system of healthy younger people normally function to attack viruses.  There are different types of viruses, and the system learns to recognize those types and build lymphocytes which are programmed to fight that category of virus.  Most everyone who interacts closely with others has been exposed to the coronavirus category of virus, and thus has lymphocytes programmed against the virus.  It is very healthy to be interactively exposed to others in our society...so our immune function stays in shape.

But like viral lung pneumonia, T-cell immunity does not mean that a person cannot get sick with pneumonia again.  It just means that the body has a memory of how to combat that type of virus.   Lungs are a tricky thing.  But, there are ways to mitigate and help the body in its natural immune response for a lung infection.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Tom Nolan

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

1 hour ago, 0R0 said:

Just make sure you know how and when to use it.

I have had experience with the Ivermectin family (Avermectin).  I wrote about it on the other Thread.  This is a very common anti-parasitic.  It should be noted that Hydroxychloroquine is also an anti-parasitic.

The Doctor will check to see about blood thinners such as Warfarin...which can be delicate even on its own.

However, Ivermectin is completely safe.  If a person has kidney issues, they may want to go slow in the beginning.  Most every person on the planet has parasites (small or microscopic if not larger ones).  We are continuously getting parasites.  Sometimes parasites "hide" within a biofilm of bacteria and fungi and/or heavy metal contamination to prevent recognition by the body's immune system.  Thus, when taking Ivermectin, it can likely kill off some parasites in the body.  This is taxing on the kidneys, and a person might feel out of sorts as the die off occurs.

By the way, according to Newsweek, those who take Ivermectin to combat mosquito born parasites...a mosquito will die if it sucks the blood from a person on Ivermectin.

[Roch + 537]

1 hour ago, Tom Nolan said:

 

The Covid Trial Design Objective was not immunity, nor to stop the spread of infection, nor to prevent a recipient from being hospitalized.  The objective was to attenuate symptoms of Covid.  That Phase 3 criteria gave a vaccine a pass to be placed before the FDA for approval via the "Emergency Use" clause.

 

Merriam Webster definition Vaccine:. a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases.

Why does Fauci state the the U.S. needs 75% to 85% of the population be vaccinated to acquire immunity.

I estimate at least 99% of the U.S. population think the Pfizer Vaccine provides immunity.  The "experts" lead us to believe this. 

I hear the UK mutation is more serious than they are letting on.  Including affects more children and young adults, transmission 70% higher  , resulting in 70% higher death rate in areas South of London where mutation detected, and more.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Roch

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

28 minutes ago, Roch said:

 

Why does Fauci state the the U.S. needs 75% to 85% of the population be vaccinated to acquire immunity.

 

That's herd immunity not personal immunity.

I agree that vaccines should provide total immunity but that is never the case. 

Let's for a thought experiment say that the vaccine does not prevent infection but "only" removes all serious symptoms including death.  That is still a very good thing. 

If you have no symptoms do you really care if you have the disease? How would you even detect it without PCR?  Furthermore, without symptoms you are at least less contagious (no coughing, etc.).

I have no problem calling it a "disease modifying" drug instead of a classic vaccine. "Therapeutic" isn't the right term as that is only given after infection.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Enthalpic

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Just make sure you know how and when to use it.

We are not going to take it unless we have positive tests. We will follow the prescription directions and continue to take multiple prophylactic supplements. I am a retired RN, MA and my wife is a Nurse Practitioner. 

[Roch + 537]

On 12/21/2020 at 6:06 PM, Enthalpic said:

That's herd immunity not personal immunity.

That makes no sense .  How can you establish herd immunity with Pfizer vaccine if you can (1) still get the virus and (2) still give the virus.  

It may lessen symptoms and lower deaths . But then again it might not prevent deaths.  They don't even know . 

CDC and NIH are winging it as they go along. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Roch

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

17 minutes ago, Roch said:

That makes no sense .  How can you establish herd immunity with Pfizer vaccine if you can (1) still the virus and (2) still give the virus.  

It may lessen deaths but might not prevent deaths.  They don't even know that now. 

Was Fauci referencing the Pfizer vaccine directly when he made the comment you claimed?

Obviously, the percentage of others who have taken the shot has no effect on your personal immunity.

We don't know everything, but that is not a reason to not try something.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

19 hours ago, Tom Nolan said:

We are about 9 weeks into the Covid vaccine trials.  Currently we are on Phase 3 of the trials which will not end for more than 2 years.  Then, they will start to collect data.  They project that in 4 years they will have published studies about the vaccine trials. 

The Covid Trial Design Objective was not immunity, nor to stop the spread of infection, nor to prevent a recipient from being hospitalized.  The objective was to attenuate symptoms of Covid.  That Phase 3 criteria gave a vaccine a pass to be placed before the FDA for approval via the "Emergency Use" clause.

The PCR tests are highly unreliable unless they are timed correctly upon an infection (certain number of days after the beginning of symptoms) and the "cycle #" is somewhere at least below 32 (per Fauci in a July interview), but the inventor of the PCR tests said that they are not meant for a diagnosis of a virus.  Most PCR tests are at around 45 cycles which make them useless at best.

Symptoms are the best criteria for diagnosis.  Especially the lung issue (e.g. "ground glass" view of X-ray).

There's a chance that if you had Covid, then you have T-Cell immunity for life.

T-cell immunity exists for many people, especially younger people with large Thymus glands.  Old people...their Thymus has shrunk to almost nothing.  The lymphocytes and immune recognition system of healthy younger people normally function to attack viruses.  There are different types of viruses, and the system learns to recognize those types and build lymphocytes which are programmed to fight that category of virus.  Most everyone who interacts closely with others has been exposed to the coronavirus category of virus, and thus has lymphocytes programmed against the virus.  It is very healthy to be interactively exposed to others in our society...so our immune function stays in shape.

But like viral lung pneumonia, T-cell immunity does not mean that a person cannot get sick with pneumonia again.  It just means that the body has a memory of how to combat that type of virus.   Lungs are a tricky thing.  But, there are ways to mitigate and help the body in its natural immune response for a lung infection.

https://community.oilprice.com/topic/21297-vaccine-makers-state-“successful-vaccine”-won’t-stop-infections-hospitalizations-deaths-or-transmission-of-the-covid-virus/

Vaccine Makers state:

“Successful Vaccine” won’t stop infections, hospitalizations, deaths or transmission of the COVID virus.

We have all heard about the vaccine trials by major pharmaceutical companies.  A Forbes article details these trials.

A target, a goal, a criteria for what is termed a “successful vaccine” is first established before they start these trials.

Vaccine Manufacturer criteria for a successful COVID vaccine is primarily to only keep away a minor symptom, such as a headache or a cough.

A “successful vaccine” is NOT DEFINED as one which stops COVID Infections, hospitalizations, deaths or transmission of the virus.

I will repeat that:

A “successful vaccine” is NOT DEFINED as one which stops COVID infections, hospitalizations, deaths or transmission of the COVID virus.

VACCINE DECISION BASED ON 150 test subjects

Also, it should be noted that despite the media about many thousands involved in the vaccine trials, the actual decisions regarding the vaccine will be based on a much lower number, somewhere between 50 and 150 people who had contracted Covid-19.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

Forbes Article

Covid-19 Vaccine Protocols Reveal That Trials Are Designed To Succeed

By Dr. William A. Haseltine

(I am a scientist, businessman, author, and philanthropist. For nearly two decades, I was a professor at Harvard Medical School and Harvard School of Public Health where I founded two academic research departments, the Division of Biochemical Pharmacology and the Division of Human Retrovirology….)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/covid-19-vaccine-protocols-reveal-that-trials-are-designed-to-succeed/#7a383c1c5247

QUOTES FROM ARTICLE

Prevention of infection is not a criterion for success for any of these vaccines.

Three of the vaccine protocols—Moderna, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca—do not require that their vaccine prevent serious disease only that they prevent moderate symptoms which may be as mild as cough, or headache.

The second surprise from these protocols is how mild the requirements for contracted Covid-19 symptoms are. A careful reading reveals that the minimum qualification for a case of Covid-19 is a positive PCR test and one or two mild symptoms. These include headache, fever, cough, or mild nausea. This is far from adequate. These vaccine trials are testing to prevent common cold symptoms.

These trials certainly do not give assurance that the vaccine will protect from the serious consequences of Covid-19.

It appears that all the pharmaceutical companies assume that the vaccine will never prevent infection.

(Criterion)

   None list the prevention of death and hospitalization as a critically important barrier.

These protocols do not emphasize the most important ramifications of Covid-19 that people are most interested in preventing: overall infection, hospitalization, and death. It boggles the mind and defies common sense that the National Institute of Health, the Center for Disease Control, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, and the rest would consider the approval of a vaccine that would be distributed to hundreds of millions on such slender threads of success.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

VIDEO

Jefferery Jaxen and Del Bigtree discuss the article in Forbes

(12 minute video)

https://www.bitchute.com/video/8gGkFDX8byHx/

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

Google & Oracle to Monitor Americans Who Get Warp Speed’s Covid-19 Vaccine for up to Two Years (and likely a person's entire life.)

(It should be noted that a person will receive 2 shots.   In the U.S., all the vaccine manufacturers (6) will be used.  Since each company's vaccine is different, a monitoring system will be set up to be sure that a person receives the second dose from the same manufacturer.)

October 15, 2020 Author Whitney Webb

https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/google-oracle-monitor-americans-who-get-warp-speeds-covid-19-vaccine-for-two-years/

Moncef Slaoui, the official head of Operation Warp Speed, told the Wall Street Journal last week that all Warp Speed vaccine recipients in the US will be monitored by “incredibly precise . . . tracking systems” for up to two years and that tech giants Google and Oracle would be involved.

Last week, a rare media interview given by the Trump administration’s “Vaccine Czar” offered a brief glimpse into the inner workings of the extremely secretive Operation Warp Speed (OWS), the Trump administration’s “public-private partnership” for delivering a Covid-19 vaccine to 300 million Americans by next January. What was revealed should deeply unsettle all Americans.

During an interview with the Wall Street Journal published last Friday, the “captain” of Operation Warp Speed, career Big Pharma executive Moncef Slaoui, confirmed that the millions of Americans who are set to receive the project’s Covid-19 vaccine will be monitored via “incredibly precise . . . tracking systems” that will “ensure that patients each get two doses of the same vaccine and to monitor them for adverse health effects.” Slaoui also noted that tech giants Google and Oracle have been contracted as part of this “tracking system” but did not specify their exact roles beyond helping to “collect and track vaccine data.”...

[notsonice + 1,069]

22 hours ago, Tom Nolan said:

We are about 9 weeks into the Covid vaccine trials.  Currently we are on Phase 3 of the trials which will not end for more than 2 years.  Then, they will start to collect data. 

 

 

Huh? what are you talking about?

 

I am in phase 3, First shot was given 4 months ago . Data collection started on day 1. Blood draws to date... 2, Have to weekly report any symptoms (weekly survey by phone app and if you do not report in they call you). If you answer yes to any question you are called in to see the doctor and testing (blood draws and what ever they want to look at picks up full stream). Next blood draw is in 2 months to find out how much antibodies remain. In other words data collection is ongoing.

 

To date no problems except a sore arm right after each injection. Nice part is I do not have to worry about those around me passing on the virus to me.