tesla a In 2020, we produced and delivered half a million cars.

[NickW + 2,714]

11 hours ago, ronwagn said:

That cannot happen for many decades without drastically harming the economies of the countries that follow that path most quickly. China will certainly stick to coal and other fossil fuels. They are realists and will sell solar panels and wind turbines to other countries, while pretending to plan great renewable advances. They just had a large natural gas find offshore too. 

Despite a growing economy Europes consumption of gas has fallen moderately in the last 10 years. Far less coal is used and there has been virtually no nuclear new build. 

The gain has come from energy efficiency and renewables. 

No reason why gas usage can't fall in other economies although I appreciate its utility as a fuel to balance renewables and replace coal. 

[NickW + 2,714]

13 hours ago, Guy Daley said:

The TITLE of the initial post is:  "

In 2020, we produced and delivered half a million cars."

Why aren't you questioning the number of cars being put into use?  WHY are you accepting the number as vehicles on the road displacing fossil usage?  Are you making an assumption?  Why?  Because it feels good?  

If these cars are registered by state / federal agencies (equivalent of DVLA - UK) I assume they are being put on the road and not squirelled away in secret desert facilities.😃.

I live to the East of London. I see plenty of Teslas, Nissan Leafs, and Renault Zoes in the town we live in and no doubt some of the BMW and VW EV models now being produced. 

[NickW + 2,714]

4 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Want to be rich in India, build sewer systems because of their Hindu religion they REFUSE to do so as it is seen "below ground" and the lowest of the low caste... dirty. 

A British Civil Engineer I know worked in India for 3 years on Sewer projects.

He looks at least 15 years older than his actual age. Puts this down to 3 years of dealing with endless layers of Indian bureaucracy and corruption. 

[Hiten Shah + 22]

6 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Want to be rich in India, build sewer systems because of their Hindu religion they REFUSE to do so as it is seen "below ground" and the lowest of the low caste... dirty. 

Come to Nagpur in Central India. Transport Minister Nitin Gadkari belongs to this Place. He himself has done pilot project converting Sewage water to Bio CNG replacement for Natural gas. You can search on youtube for further information 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Hiten Shah

[Hiten Shah + 22]

 https://amp.interestingengineering.com/india-is-building-the-worlds-largest-hybrid-renewable-energy-megapark

 

India Is Building the World's Largest Hybrid Renewable Energy 'Megapark'

[NickW + 2,714]

30 minutes ago, Hiten Shah said:

 https://amp.interestingengineering.com/india-is-building-the-worlds-largest-hybrid-renewable-energy-megapark

 

India Is Building the World's Largest Hybrid Renewable Energy 'Megapark'

Often the posters on here imply its the USA doing all the heavy lifting and India and China are doing nothing hence the justification for Donut pulling the USA out of the Paris agreement. 

Meanwhile in the real world India and China now get a greater % of their electricity from solar than does the USA. Plenty of other developing nations now have major solar energy programmes and wind where its applicable. 

India now has the worlds 4th biggest deployment of wind capacity and 5th biggest in terms of solar. 

its a credit to India that it achieves this despite having a GDP/ capita at 1/30th of the USA. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

19 minutes ago, NickW said:

Often the posters on here imply its the USA doing all the heavy lifting and India and China are doing nothing hence the justification for Donut pulling the USA out of the Paris agreement. 

Meanwhile in the real world India and China now get a greater % of their electricity from solar than does the USA. Plenty of other developing nations now have major solar energy programmes and wind where its applicable. 

India now has the worlds 4th biggest deployment of wind capacity and 5th biggest in terms of solar. 

its a credit to India that it achieves this despite having a GDP/ capita at 1/30th of the USA. 

1) Paris accord was an epic joke

2) India is prime location for intermittent solar power as a very large portion of the population is used to living with intermittent power and the most expensive aspect of intermittent power can be sidestepped... its unreliability.  Except that in the tropics its unreliablity is in fact reliable as long as you do not want LOTS of power when dark.  Lighting is easy. 

3) I see this being true of most countries near the equator as they do not have winter to worry about which drives everyone's power needs up north.  So, to the average northern human, any system which does not address winter(no sun, maximum heating/lighting need) is to the average user, if they were forced to sit down and think about it, useless. 

[NickW + 2,714]

3 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

1) Paris accord was an epic joke

2) India is prime location for intermittent solar power as a very large portion of the population is used to living with intermittent power and the most expensive aspect of intermittent power can be sidestepped... its unreliability.  Except that in the tropics its unreliablity is in fact reliable as long as you do not want LOTS of power when dark.  Lighting is easy. 

3) I see this being true of most countries near the equator as they do not have winter to worry about which drives everyone's power needs up north.  So, to the average northern human, any system which does not address winter(no sun, maximum heating/lighting need) is to the average user, if they were forced to sit down and think about it, useless. 

Whatever its shortcomings it was a starting point for global cooperation. Even Trumps first Sec of State, Mr Exxon was broadly supportive. 

Don't worry - the USA rejoins in 2 weeks time. 

[NickW + 2,714]

5 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

1) Paris accord was an epic joke

2) India is prime location for intermittent solar power as a very large portion of the population is used to living with intermittent power and the most expensive aspect of intermittent power can be sidestepped... its unreliability.  Except that in the tropics its unreliablity is in fact reliable as long as you do not want LOTS of power when dark.  Lighting is easy. 

3) I see this being true of most countries near the equator as they do not have winter to worry about which drives everyone's power needs up north.  So, to the average northern human, any system which does not address winter(no sun, maximum heating/lighting need) is to the average user, if they were forced to sit down and think about it, useless. 

For India Solar helps meet daytime peaks from industrial processes and offsets the amount of gas / coal used. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

10 minutes ago, NickW said:

Whatever its shortcomings it was a starting point for global cooperation. Even Trumps first Sec of State, Mr Exxon was broadly supportive. 

Don't worry - the USA rejoins in 2 weeks time. 

Doesn't matter if anyone joins or not, it was an even bigger joke than the absurd Kyoto.  Everyone who signed it has ignored it.  Great "cooperation there".  Why sign?

And there will be no global "cooperation" on this issue.  None.  To start with it is impossible to enforce even if one does play make believe the temps are rising.(they aren't)  Daily high temps in 100% of all data sets from all around the world have not gone up for over 20 years now, and in fact have gone down in several data sets.   All this shows is that the daily lows have slightly gone up and since vast majority of thermometers are in/near cities... gee I wonder why... hrmm oh yea, city island effect, as the world becomes more electrified/powered with an ever increasing population. 

[Hiten Shah + 22]

45 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

1) Paris accord was an epic joke

2) India is prime location for intermittent solar power as a very large portion of the population is used to living with intermittent power and the most expensive aspect of intermittent power can be sidestepped... its unreliability.  Except that in the tropics its unreliablity is in fact reliable as long as you do not want LOTS of power when dark.  Lighting is easy. 

3) I see this being true of most countries near the equator as they do not have winter to worry about which drives everyone's power needs up north.  So, to the average northern human, any system which does not address winter(no sun, maximum heating/lighting need) is to the average user, if they were forced to sit down and think about it, useless. 

For your kind information EVERY STATE in India is power SURPLUS! world’s third largest reserves of Coal but still Coal capacity are running at 50% capacity. we have way more capacity surplus than highest peakest power Demand!

[JUAN 0]

1.5 millon BBL of oil out of the market !!!!

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

8 hours ago, Hiten Shah said:

For your kind information EVERY STATE in India is power SURPLUS! world’s third largest reserves of Coal but still Coal capacity are running at 50% capacity. we have way more capacity surplus than highest peakest power Demand!

Is everyone supposed to laugh or cry at this statement?

[Hiten Shah + 22]

8 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Is everyone supposed to laugh or cry at this statement?

https://www.zeebiz.com/companies/news-clsa-on-ntpc-power-grid-adani-transmission-renewable-power-explainer-145239

[Guy Daley + 49]

21 hours ago, NickW said:

If these cars are registered by state / federal agencies (equivalent of DVLA - UK) I assume they are being put on the road and not squirelled away in secret desert facilities.😃.

I live to the East of London. I see plenty of Teslas, Nissan Leafs, and Renault Zoes in the town we live in and no doubt some of the BMW and VW EV models now being produced. 

Are you making another assumption?  That the cars are registered?  How do you do this?  

I live in central US.  And there are NO EVs on the road around here.  That would be NONE, ZERO, ZILCH.  You won't find one here - PERIOD.   I wintered in Phoenix, AZ for six straight winters and I saw ONE TESLA.  I saw a car I've never seen before and so I scrutinized it to find out what it was and it was a Tesla.  Phoenix is a HUGE metro area and when I'm down there I drive quite a bit and I saw ONE TESLA over SIX WINTERS.  

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS.  It drives your credibility into the toilet.  

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, Guy Daley said:

Are you making another assumption?  That the cars are registered?  How do you do this?  

I live in central US.  And there are NO EVs on the road around here.  That would be NONE, ZERO, ZILCH.  You won't find one here - PERIOD.   I wintered in Phoenix, AZ for six straight winters and I saw ONE TESLA.  I saw a car I've never seen before and so I scrutinized it to find out what it was and it was a Tesla.  Phoenix is a HUGE metro area and when I'm down there I drive quite a bit and I saw ONE TESLA over SIX WINTERS.  

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS.  It drives your credibility into the toilet.  

You are the one making an assumption that the vehicle sales are not ending up on the road which would defy all conventional logic. 

According to this (two years old) 

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Maps and Data - Electric Vehicle Registrations by State (energy.gov)

So where are all these Teslas going - a big warehouse in Area 51? The NISSAN leaf is manufactured in the US - another big warehouse needed too? 

I suspect you need to look to your coastal Urban States - California, Washington, NY to see where most are purchased. 

 

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, Guy Daley said:

Are you making another assumption?  That the cars are registered?  How do you do this?  

I live in central US.  And there are NO EVs on the road around here.  That would be NONE, ZERO, ZILCH.  You won't find one here - PERIOD.   I wintered in Phoenix, AZ for six straight winters and I saw ONE TESLA.  I saw a car I've never seen before and so I scrutinized it to find out what it was and it was a Tesla.  Phoenix is a HUGE metro area and when I'm down there I drive quite a bit and I saw ONE TESLA over SIX WINTERS.  

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS.  It drives your credibility into the toilet.  

I seem to recall Ward Smith drives a Nissan Leaf. He is hardly Mr Green Deal. 😁

 

[NickW + 2,714]

2 hours ago, Guy Daley said:

Are you making another assumption?  That the cars are registered?  How do you do this?  

I live in central US.  And there are NO EVs on the road around here.  That would be NONE, ZERO, ZILCH.  You won't find one here - PERIOD.   I wintered in Phoenix, AZ for six straight winters and I saw ONE TESLA.  I saw a car I've never seen before and so I scrutinized it to find out what it was and it was a Tesla.  Phoenix is a HUGE metro area and when I'm down there I drive quite a bit and I saw ONE TESLA over SIX WINTERS.  

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS.  It drives your credibility into the toilet.  

This is even better. You can look up the numbers registered by a selection of states and whether they are EV's or Hybrids and what manufacturer 

State EV Registration Data – Atlas EV Hub

Edited January 7, 2021 by NickW

[Guy Daley + 49]

9 hours ago, NickW said:

You are the one making an assumption that the vehicle sales are not ending up on the road which would defy all conventional logic. 

According to this (two years old) 

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Maps and Data - Electric Vehicle Registrations by State (energy.gov)

So where are all these Teslas going - a big warehouse in Area 51? The NISSAN leaf is manufactured in the US - another big warehouse needed too? 

I suspect you need to look to your coastal Urban States - California, Washington, NY to see where most are purchased. 

 

I'm blocking you now due to this comment.  "You are the one making an assumption that the vehicle sales are not ending up on the road....."

Delivered does not mean sold.  That makes you a liar for ASSUMING that it does.  Your bias is sickening.  There are an insane number of unsold cars across this nation, including ICE cars.  Why?  Because the demonrats have destroyed our economy with the covid hoax.  

There is NO OTHER WAY TO STOP YOUR ABSURD, BIASED, BLATHERING that EVs are selling like hot cakes except to block all further sight of your comments.  Although I will give you credit for the website about EVs registered.  Of course that is going to be all EVs sold since they were first offered in the state and are still running.  And the article did mention that the states, IN GENERAL, reflect that the purchases were SUBSIDIZED by government with some sort of tax credit.  I'm sure those incentives won't last forever if they haven't already expired.

[markslawson + 1,042]

On 1/3/2021 at 2:49 AM, Hiten Shah said:

How much Oil demand does 5000000 Electric cars displaced?

For those with an interest in this stuff here is a graph of oil demand since 2006 as you can see it dipped markedly in 2020 but that was due to the coronavirus troubles. On the same page it talks about oil demand increasing  40 per cent by 2040 mainly due to demand increases among developing countries.. that would more than offset the reduction resulting from the comparatively (note COMPARATIVELY) small number of EVs sold to date.

[Boat + 1,315]

13 minutes ago, markslawson said:

For those with an interest in this stuff here is a graph of oil demand since 2006 as you can see it dipped markedly in 2020 but that was due to the coronavirus troubles. On the same page it talks about oil demand increasing  40 per cent by 2040 mainly due to demand increases among developing countries.. that would more than offset the reduction resulting from the comparatively (note COMPARATIVELY) small number of EVs sold to date.

Apparently OPEC hasent  heard of Elon Musk and how he’s dragging the car and semi industry to electric vehicals. Them oil shills might want to go to YouTube and keyword Tesla and watch a few videos. In redneck terms that means, get some learning.

 

[NickW + 2,714]

11 hours ago, Guy Daley said:

I'm blocking you now due to this comment.  "You are the one making an assumption that the vehicle sales are not ending up on the road....."

Delivered does not mean sold.  That makes you a liar for ASSUMING that it does.  Your bias is sickening.  There are an insane number of unsold cars across this nation, including ICE cars.  Why?  Because the demonrats have destroyed our economy with the covid hoax.  

There is NO OTHER WAY TO STOP YOUR ABSURD, BIASED, BLATHERING that EVs are selling like hot cakes except to block all further sight of your comments.  Although I will give you credit for the website about EVs registered.  Of course that is going to be all EVs sold since they were first offered in the state and are still running.  And the article did mention that the states, IN GENERAL, reflect that the purchases were SUBSIDIZED by government with some sort of tax credit.  I'm sure those incentives won't last forever if they haven't already expired.

Ok - bye bye

My comments were basically a desk top calculation to work out how much oil 500,000 EV's would save and a reasonable assumption that if 500,000 EV's are registered then the vast majority of them will end up on the road as privately purchased or company vehicles. 

The issue with whether or not the states / government were offering cash backs is irrelevant as regards the original question which was how will 5000,000 EV's affect oil consumption. 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by NickW

[NickW + 2,714]

On 1/3/2021 at 12:01 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

How much coal, uranium, and NG is required to power said EV's?

Taking the same stats used to calculate ball park reduction in oil demand

Assume 4 miles / KWh

13500 miles per year per car

5 million vehicles

total demand 17 TWh

• 2.15 x  1GW nuclear power stations operation at 90% capacity
• 3.1 bn m3 of natural gas used in CCGT plant at average efficiency of 50% 
• 280 GE 14MW offshore turbines operating at 50% capacity factor
• 12GW of solar operating at 1400W / Kw capacity (60-70km2 of solar farms)

Of course in reality the supply arrangements would be from a mix of the above. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by NickW
Typo - thanks Footeab

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

37 minutes ago, NickW said:

Taking the same stats used to calculate ball park reduction in oil demand

Assume 4kwh / mile

??? Those sold are gigantic mining trucks ???  They are piddly cars getting ~370miles/100kWh(TESLA 3) so ~3 miles(5km) per kWh

You are only off by a factor of 12😎

So, depending on perspective, that could be a very good thing. 

[NickW + 2,714]

7 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

??? Those sold are gigantic mining trucks ???  They are piddly cars getting ~370miles/100kWh(TESLA 3) so ~3 miles(5km) per kWh

You are only off by a factor of 12😎

So, depending on perspective, that could be a very good thing. 

Good spot. 

4 miles per Kwh !

If you want to rework at 3.7 miles / kwh then add 8% to the energy infrastructure examples. 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by NickW