US unveils plans to counter China’s rise in Asia

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

34 minutes ago, Hotone said:

Look up Article 66.2 of the WTO Agreement on TRIPS.  It obligates developed countries to transfer technology to developing countries like China.  America's charges about Chinese forced technology transfer will fail in the WTO.  That's why Trump neutered the appellate courts and tried to kill the WTO.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/12/09/trump-may-kill-wto-finally-appellate-body-world-trade-organization/

Except that even under a cursory inspection China is not a developing country. It is a fully DEVELOPED nation pretending to be 3rd World only when it suits them. A leader with testicles would stand up to their Bullshit, but the Chinese got rid of him, with the blessings of the useful idiots on this site and the usual suspects in the Deep State et al. 

[frankfurter + 562]

6 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Except that even under a cursory inspection China is not a developing country. It is a fully DEVELOPED nation pretending to be 3rd World only when it suits them. A leader with testicles would stand up to their Bullshit, but the Chinese got rid of him, with the blessings of the useful idiots on this site and the usual suspects in the Deep State et al. 

That is your opinion, only. The WTO definition is rather different from yours. But, yes, China has developed very significantly over the past 25 years.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Third World versus First World

[RichieRich216 + 454]

I say blow them out of the Air and Water!

[Hotone + 412]

15 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Third World versus First World

America is still the richest country in the world in absolute terms.  Per capita wise, Americans are more than six times richer than the Chinese.  

 

Yet some parts of America looks worse than the third world.  One of the few places that I have visited in America is Hollywood Boulevard and its walk of fame.  I recently watched a video where even this hallowed ground is now occupied by the homeless 😱.  

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Hotone

[SUZNV + 1,197]

6 hours ago, Hotone said:

 America is still the richest country in the world in absolute terms.  Per capita wise, Americans are more than six times richer than the Chinese.  

 

Yet some parts of America looks worse than the third world.  One of the few places that I have visited in America is Hollywood Boulevard and its walk of fame.  I recently watched a video where even this hallowed ground is now occupied by the homeless 😱.  What is going on?!!

 

When China tries to sell there technology stuff or advocating for Chinese Yuan, China is a developed country.

When China tries to forced tech transfers, advocating for China Yuan or tariff, than China is a developing country. 

However the third world part of the US didn't stop US to be identified as a developed country, so should be the same for China. Inequality is a domestic matter. The gap in average income between China rural and urban is much larger than in the US, for example.

US is not that rich from Median income per capita point of view:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-income-by-country

Bear in mind that US has expensive healthcare compares to Europe, Canada or ANZ. Feel free to squeeze the US global corporations or US Financial Banks  if China can but not from US citizen tax or US IP ownership. 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by SUZNV

[Marcin2 + 724]

What are the current privileges of China that come from developing country status at WTO ?

What kind of preferential treatment it gets at present in comparison with the United States ?

Why United States has not challenged status of China as developing country at WTO ?

(At WTO there is no definition of developed/developing country. Each country identifies itself as one. But other countries can challenge this status. How ? I do not know. I understand that with current balance of power only US can try to challenge status of China)

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

China GDP per capita gets swamped by the vast number of citizens. Averages have a way of hiding facts from view. With 1.5 billion people, just how much wealth needs to be there compared to the US? I'm also curious if US "population" includes all the illegal aliens. Furthermore, everything you need to buy in China is far cheaper than in the US. Food, shelter, clothing, you name it, all much cheaper in China. We could talk about purchasing power parity, but that's another one of those things that's been manipulated to death for the usual political reasons. 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

3 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

What are the current privileges of China that come from developing country status at WTO ?

What kind of preferential treatment it gets at present in comparison with the United States ?

Why United States has not challenged status of China as developing country at WTO ?

(At WTO there is no definition of developed/developing country. Each country identifies itself as one. But other countries can challenge this status. How ? I do not know. I understand that with current balance of power only US can try to challenge status of China)

Before Trump's term and after the cold war, more than half politicians in US loved China. Obama TPP was just a delay tactic for China to buy more time (China gained big since Obama). Don't believe me? After Trump's term Biden with 70% of Obama's administration will just do the same. Will have lots of strong talk, and plan that sounds big but have no effect on China. 

US had Trump to do something about China, but more than half US politicians have TDS. Assuming the election is fair, more than half US has TDS. Big States crowded cities got TDS. US mainstream and politicians use Trump and Russia to shift the public focus out of China. Who would lobby for Trump? Big tech or big Pharmacy? Wall Street? Who's politicians  on Trump side besides UK, Australia, Japan, Israel?

About WTO:

-EU has a tariff wall against China and others. Assuming Trump haven't had  any tariff on EU or asked for NATO fees, it wouldn't have changed anything. EU would have still traded with China while benefiting from the US. Not only EU, most of other country would have done the same things.

-Many of the countries in WTO have high hope for China's Bell and Road for prosperity and want to get rid of USD as world reserve currency. Besides bribes, Western Politicians learned a lots from China in brainwashing and manipulating publics, Western mainstream love China's donation and Big Tech love China market. The world politicians are obsessed with Paris Accord and Green New Deal despite China is the main supplier of rare earth resources and lithium batteries and polution.

I am not jealous with the rise of China, any country has the right to have ambition. But I saw it as a source of corruption, deceiving and undermining democracy. Many leaders will use China as model for power.  Most politicians nowadays are more about personal gain than for their countries or ideologies. Normal people are too easy to be manipulated with "greed and fear" techniques these politicians learn from China.

I always thought freedom of speech would make people pay attention to politics, understand politics and therefore be resilient to political tricks and choose the correct leader. But now I can see that democracy may make people ignorant and  take what they have for granted as they got used to the  comfort zone.

 

 

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:13 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Quite well aware of that, i like to toy/bait Mr. Frank...there are time's he becomes so absurd i attempt to emulate his train of thought.

As to this obligation, i can respectfully state US citizens did not empower our leadership at any time to obligate the US to subject to a foreign court system. Actually i do believe that would be highly unconstitutional...George Bush went into this agreement in the dark of night and amended the original articles. Perhaps Mr Jan van Eck might drop in and articulate on such a constitutional issue. Is that not sad i do not grasp the constitution well enough to make a conclusive statement.

@Jan van Eck

Hi there, @Eyes Wide Open, please keep in mind that if you want to "flag" me in a post, you have to ensure that the Flag is back-coloured in blue. If there is no backlight then the flag will not connect in the software and I will not see it, unless I happen to stumble on it, as I did here. 

I have been looking over this thread and remain astonished at some of the posts, including those of our Communist chum Frankfurter.  First up, there is Frankie's suggestion that the USA would militarily and politically freak out if the Chinese Navy had a frigate steaming around in the Gulf of Mexico.  That is not true; the USA is not at war with China and there is no reason for a freak-out.  Assuredly, the ship would be monitored, but that is the case for every Chinese military ship moving anywhere on the planet.  They are all under perpetual monitoring.  So what?  The US is not going to go shooting at them.  If a Frigate of the PLAN were to seek to dock in a US Port, it could certainly do so (assuming COVID is past); the sailors can go do "liberty," nobody is going to interfere with a friendly port visit.  

Frankie does not understand the American mentality;  Frankie postulates that all Americans are "ignorant" and :girding for war;"  I assure the readers that that is not the case.  the Americans are quite indifferent to whether or not the Chinese are economically (and even politically) successful.  It is NOT a competition.  America does its thing; others can do their thing, as long as they do not violate behavioural norms of being polite and not invading their neighbors. 

There are these comments about military capabilities and shooting up ships.  That is all a bit silly.  the American military will always completely dominate the battle space.  There is no one that is even close to US military battle capability. The technology is so vastly superior, and the numbers and amount of hardware is so vastly superior, that the US will always have battle-space superiority.  And that is why the USA is and remains the only World Policeman.  So, China, behave yourself, and forget about those ideas of an invasion of Taiwan. 

Moving on the the specific question that Eyes raised, let us go back into history a bit.  The US Revolution was fought specifically to ensure that the Americans would be beholden to no one.  That result became the undergirdment of the US Constitution.  Americans flatly refuse to subject themselves, their citizens, for that matter even their landed immigrants, to the Courts of other lands.  For this reason the US has refused to sign on to the World Court, or the World Military Tribunal Courts.  As an example, remember to the demand by the Provisional Government of Iraq that US Soldiers be subject to Iraqi Courts if charged with murder; that came about after those  private security contractor thugs of Blackwater, the company started by Erik Prince, former Navy Seal, shot up a taxi with a hail of gunfire, slaughtering the driver and a civilian family.  When Iraq insisted that US soldiers be subject to courts outside the US Military, the US refused, and pulled its troops out, thus ending the Occupation. 

And that has always been the case.  In 1812, the British Navy took the attitude that they could stop any US civilian merchantman on the Atlantic and seize the sailors, to go serve four years in the British Navy (and if you said "No," they killed you).  That policy was known as "impressment," and it led to War with England (again).  So there is this long history of US Citizens being not subject to foreign monarchies (or dictators).  And, if you attempt to imprison a US National, don't be surprised that the US sends in the Marines to kick your ass.  That was the basis of the fights in the Barbary Pirates wars; the pirates would seize US crews in the Med and hold them for ransom, and that ransom was paid by US Marines with their big guns.  Bye-bye Barbary Pirates (they got wiped out).  Hello, Halls of Tripoli. 

In parallel vein, the US Government is not subject to any foreign court system.  For this reason the US has refused to sign various treaties, such as the international treaty to ban land mines. It took the US Senate over ten years to agree to the International Child Abduction Treaty, whi9ch allows for the US Courts to recognize custody Orders of foreign Courts. And even that is highly circumscribed. 

As for George Bush and Brett Kavanaugh, both men are Yale Dekes, as am I.  While all fraternities are effectively self-selecting as to the members, the Dekes have produced five US Presidents.  I know these men well.  I would thus decline to make comments, especially aspersive ones.  I will say that, simply because the Dekes were typically Republican, they are Constitutionalists first, and the idea that strict constitutional constructionists are going to vote to support Mr. Trump is a fantasy. Chief Justice Roberts flatly declined to preside over this latest Impeachment, with sound reason, and I predict the effort  (run by quite partisan democrats) will fail.  The impeachment trial will end in acquittal.  And on that note, I remind readers here that Mr. Trump remains the most popular (by far) person in the republican Party, and is and remains the dominant player there.  Do not underestimate Mr. Trump  (and he just might run in 2024, and if he does, I predict he will win that contest).  Cheers to all. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Jan van Eck

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

18 hours ago, SUZNV said:

Normal people are too easy to be manipulated with "greed and fear" techniques these politicians learn from China.

Per my personal observation, after China opened up, the U.S. went in full bore to develop a Pro-U.S. behemoth that was on the side of the U.S.  Most of the government and industry people I saw come in and spur China along in the early days thought the Chinese naive and not too bright (easy to lead by the nose).  That underestimation was delusional to the max.  The Chinese are better at pure capitalism than most on the planet, and under the CCP they can force any of their comrades that aren't towing the Party line, to tow the Party line.

But the point is, in the early days, the U.S. Government taught China the tricks of world trade and finance and spurred U.S. Companies to back it up with joint ventures of every imaginable type and scale.  What they were teaching was intended to catapult China up to useful tool level for the U.S. Government and markets.  The problem is, the Chinese took it all down, studied it, "improved" upon it, and then started running out of any U.S. control.  And it took the successive U.S. Governments much too long to figure out what they had helped create.

And now we are where we are.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

4 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

And, if you attempt to imprison a US National, don't be surprised that the US sends in the Marines to kick your ass. 

Just in case chum Frankie thinks this is all huff and puff and bluff, I invite him, and all readers, to review the case of Jessica Buchanan, a lone American aid worker with some Danish aid society in Somalia, kidnapped by bandits.  You want to see how that plays out, check out this short video history  (spoiler alert: the US President orders in Seal Team Six, who parachute down into Somalia on a moonless night and shoot their way in and shoot their way out.  Jessica gets put on a US military helicopter and taken to safety.  The Seal team evaporates back into the dark of night; she never sees their faces or learns who they were.  Ghosts with guns - US guns). 

 

[Marcin2 + 724]

6 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Frankie does not understand the American mentality;  Frankie postulates that all Americans are "ignorant" and :girding for war;"  I assure the readers that that is not the case.  the Americans are quite indifferent to whether or not the Chinese are economically (and even politically) successful.  It is NOT a competition.  America does its thing; others can do their thing, as long as they do not violate behavioural norms of being polite and not invading their neighbors. 

 

The crux of the discussion about hegemony conflict between US and China is that this is not true.

Americans are not indifferent whether Chinese become rich and technologically advanced country.

Developed China constitute THE existential threat for the United States as a country in current political and international set-up

I will prove it in a few sentences.

Lets go with the scenario about developed, techonologically advanced and rich China.

Lets assume China has GDP per capita 80% of US GDP per capita (it is perfectly achievable in the future).

With population 4.5 times higher than US it means Chinese GDP is 3.6 times higher than US GDP.

It means China has GDP of 75 trillion USD. Let assume that it is a peace loving country and spends only 3.0% of GDP on military, that is 2.25 trillion US dollars. So it has 30 carrier battle groups, 2 of them constantly patrol US East Coast, 1 is in Mexican Bay and 2 US Pacific Coast. Only to ensure peace and prosperity in the world.

China spends 2.5% GDP on R&D (the same as now) which is 1.8 trillion dollars and is much more technologically advanced than the United States. It is globally agreed that crude oil could be sold only in yuan and never can be sold in US dollar.

Now you understand, developed China would push US to the relative position currently held by Japan or Germany, nothing less and nothing more. So developed China is the existential threat for The United States.

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 2/5/2021 at 1:33 PM, Gerry Maddoux said:

i think you're right. I understand that the Chinese have watched the devastation by the virus in the United States with something akin to wonderment--they're pretty sure we're on our back foot, weak, and utterly devoid of will. 

The incursions into the Taiwanese identification zone by Chinese nuclear-enabled bombers and fighters was likely flushing out that thesis. In response, our deployment of the USS John McCain into the Taiwan Strait was surprising (at least to me) and showed some teeth. 

But my bet is that Xi feels the window of opportunity is closing. And that if he's ever going to make a move it has to be soon . . . before the American "recovery." 

IMHO China already has a bad reputation worldwide, with the possible exception of North Korea, Iran, and Cuba. I recently saw a Russian move which showed the Chinese invading Russia with airborne troops after it had the Russian people had been attacked with a killer virus. I was surprised they were allowed to release such a movie. https://decider.com/2020/10/07/to-the-lake-netflix-review/ 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 1/23/2021 at 11:43 AM, Marcin2 said:

This report shows that US has very limited, very narrow view how to play this US-China rivalry for global hegemony.

What are US policy tools ?:

- security ties with allies (military),

- further sanctions against Chinese companies (more of the economic war, mainly on technology and investment fronts)

- generally trying to decouple US from China

- trying to convince the rest of the world to emulate US decoupling.

All these policy tools have 1 feature in common: they do not engage any significant resources apart from military resources.

So only US Army + 1,000 politicians are engaged in this policy tools.

What is the  role of US business ?

 

It is difficult to win with such approach when China is the factory of the world and the global centre of globalization

plus builds trillions of infrastructure.

 

Simply put, people are not afraid of China  threat as projected by US, to stay poor and hungry.

 

https://decider.com/2020/10/07/to-the-lake-netflix-review/ Even the Russians are afraid of China. This movie has an ending that incicates this very strongly. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

10 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

The crux of the discussion about hegemony conflict between US and China is that this is not true.

Americans are not indifferent whether Chinese become rich and technologically advanced country.

Developed China constitute THE existential threat for the United States as a country in current political and international set-up

I will prove it in a few sentences.

Lets go with the scenario about developed, techonologically advanced and rich China.

Lets assume China has GDP per capita 80% of US GDP per capita (it is perfectly achievable in the future).

With population 4.5 times higher than US it means Chinese GDP is 3.6 times higher than US GDP.

It means China has GDP of 75 trillion USD. Let assume that it is a peace loving country and spends only 3.0% of GDP on military, that is 2.25 trillion US dollars. So it has 30 carrier battle groups, 2 of them constantly patrol US East Coast, 1 is in Mexican Bay and 2 US Pacific Coast. Only to ensure peace and prosperity in the world.

China spends 2.5% GDP on R&D (the same as now) which is 1.8 trillion dollars and is much more technologically advanced than the United States. It is globally agreed that crude oil could be sold only in yuan and never can be sold in US dollar.

Now you understand, developed China would push US to the relative position currently held by Japan or Germany, nothing less and nothing more. So developed China is the existential threat for The United States.

 

You do understand your argument for China's maturity only solidifies Trump position on balanced trade. Frankly i am now thoroughly entrenched in the belief the US needs to have a trade surplus with the US.

It would seem quite apparent by your posting China has been and is bullying the US. Your thought's?

[Symmetry + 109]

6 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

 And on that note, I remind readers here that Mr. Trump remains the most popular (by far) person in the republican Party, and is and remains the dominant player there.  Do not underestimate Mr. Trump  (and he just might run in 2024, and if he does, I predict he will win that contest).  Cheers to all. 

You must be joking  Trump is done, an embarrassment that fractured the party. 

Parties essentially never let losers lead the party again in the next election.  

 

[Symmetry + 109]

2 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Just in case chum Frankie thinks this is all huff and puff and bluff, I invite him, and all readers, to review the case of Jessica Buchanan, a lone American aid worker with some Danish aid society in Somalia, kidnapped by bandits.  You want to see how that plays out, check out this short video history  (spoiler alert: the US President orders in Seal Team Six, who parachute down into Somalia on a moonless night and shoot their way in and shoot their way out.  Jessica gets put on a US military helicopter and taken to safety.  The Seal team evaporates back into the dark of night; she never sees their faces or learns who they were.  Ghosts with guns - US guns).

 

Just like in all the movies!

Mostly fiction and propaganda.   Go Joe! The real American hero!

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

25 minutes ago, Symmetry said:

You must be joking  Trump is done, an embarrassment that fractured the party. 

Parties essentially never let losers lead the party again in the next election.  

 

Speaking of Joking...Cosmic Backround Noise seems to leaking into many conversations.

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

8 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

There are these comments about military capabilities and shooting up ships.  That is all a bit silly.  the American military will always completely dominate the battle space.  There is no one that is even close to US military battle capability. The technology is so vastly superior, and the numbers and amount of hardware is so vastly superior, that the US will always have battle-space superiority.  And that is why the USA is and remains the only World Policeman.  So, China, behave yourself, and forget about those ideas of an invasion of Taiwan. 

The UAE and Jordan bear this out. Both countries bought equipment from others but only because the US wouldn't sell the hardware they were seeking. Jordan put their Wing Loong drones up for sale a while ago.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/uae-envoy-if-us-unwilling-to-supply-weapons-well-have-to-turn-elsewhere/

https://eurasiantimes.com/faulty-chinese-military-hardware-is-paving-way-for-india-to-emerge-as-a-global-weapons-exporter/

Edited February 10, 2021 by Strangelovesurfing

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

1 hour ago, Marcin2 said:

China spends 2.5% GDP on R&D (the same as now) which is 1.8 trillion dollars and is much more technologically advanced than the United States.

Really? Please give examples of China being much more technologically advanced than the US.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

8 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

Hi there, @Eyes Wide Open, please keep in mind that if you want to "flag" me in a post, you have to ensure that the Flag is back-coloured in blue. If there is no backlight then the flag will not connect in the software and I will not see it, unless I happen to stumble on it, as I did here. 

I have been looking over this thread and remain astonished at some of the posts, including those of our Communist chum Frankfurter.  First up, there is Frankie's suggestion that the USA would militarily and politically freak out if the Chinese Navy had a frigate steaming around in the Gulf of Mexico.  That is not true; the USA is not at war with China and there is no reason for a freak-out.  Assuredly, the ship would be monitored, but that is the case for every Chinese military ship moving anywhere on the planet.  They are all under perpetual monitoring.  So what?  The US is not going to go shooting at them.  If a Frigate of the PLAN were to seek to dock in a US Port, it could certainly do so (assuming COVID is past); the sailors can go do "liberty," nobody is going to interfere with a friendly port visit.  

Frankie does not understand the American mentality;  Frankie postulates that all Americans are "ignorant" and :girding for war;"  I assure the readers that that is not the case.  the Americans are quite indifferent to whether or not the Chinese are economically (and even politically) successful.  It is NOT a competition.  America does its thing; others can do their thing, as long as they do not violate behavioural norms of being polite and not invading their neighbors. 

There are these comments about military capabilities and shooting up ships.  That is all a bit silly.  the American military will always completely dominate the battle space.  There is no one that is even close to US military battle capability. The technology is so vastly superior, and the numbers and amount of hardware is so vastly superior, that the US will always have battle-space superiority.  And that is why the USA is and remains the only World Policeman.  So, China, behave yourself, and forget about those ideas of an invasion of Taiwan. 

Moving on the the specific question that Eyes raised, let us go back into history a bit.  The US Revolution was fought specifically to ensure that the Americans would be beholden to no one.  That result became the undergirdment of the US Constitution.  Americans flatly refuse to subject themselves, their citizens, for that matter even their landed immigrants, to the Courts of other lands.  For this reason the US has refused to sign on to the World Court, or the World Military Tribunal Courts.  As an example, remember to the demand by the Provisional Government of Iraq that US Soldiers be subject to Iraqi Courts if charged with murder; that came about after those  private security contractor thugs of Blackwater, the company started by Erik Prince, former Navy Seal, shot up a taxi with a hail of gunfire, slaughtering the driver and a civilian family.  When Iraq insisted that US soldiers be subject to courts outside the US Military, the US refused, and pulled its troops out, thus ending the Occupation. 

And that has always been the case.  In 1812, the British Navy took the attitude that they could stop any US civilian merchantman on the Atlantic and seize the sailors, to go serve four years in the British Navy (and if you said "No," they killed you).  That policy was known as "impressment," and it led to War with England (again).  So there is this long history of US Citizens being not subject to foreign monarchies (or dictators).  And, if you attempt to imprison a US National, don't be surprised that the US sends in the Marines to kick your ass.  That was the basis of the fights in the Barbary Pirates wars; the pirates would seize US crews in the Med and hold them for ransom, and that ransom was paid by US Marines with their big guns.  Bye-bye Barbary Pirates (they got wiped out).  Hello, Halls of Tripoli. 

In parallel vein, the US Government is not subject to any foreign court system.  For this reason the US has refused to sign various treaties, such as the international treaty to ban land mines. It took the US Senate over ten years to agree to the International Child Abduction Treaty, whi9ch allows for the US Courts to recognize custody Orders of foreign Courts. And even that is highly circumscribed. 

As for George Bush and Brett Kavanaugh, both men are Yale Dekes, as am I.  While all fraternities are effectively self-selecting as to the members, the Dekes have produced five US Presidents.  I know these men well.  I would thus decline to make comments, especially aspersive ones.  I will say that, simply because the Dekes were typically Republican, they are Constitutionalists first, and the idea that strict constitutional constructionists are going to vote to support Mr. Trump is a fantasy. Chief Justice Roberts flatly declined to preside over this latest Impeachment, with sound reason, and I predict the effort  (run by quite partisan democrats) will fail.  The impeachment trial will end in acquittal.  And on that note, I remind readers here that Mr. Trump remains the most popular (by far) person in the republican Party, and is and remains the dominant player there.  Do not underestimate Mr. Trump  (and he just might run in 2024, and if he does, I predict he will win that contest).  Cheers to all. 

It is good of you to take the time to put your thoughts into a well rounded cohesive manner, quite refreshing actually rather than zingers flying amuck with no foundation. As to this system anomaly black hands yes warm heart (slightly blue) but as you say....."Such Is Life"

Edited February 10, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It is good of you to take the time to put your thoughts into a well rounded cohesive statement, quite refreshing actually rather than zingers with no foundation. As to this system anomaly black hands yes warm heart (slightly blue) but as you say....."Such Is Life"

I thank you for your kind words.  You might have noticed that I do not do "zingers.  "Just the facts  ,ma'am; just the facts."  [Joe Friday quote]

[Andrew Neopalimy + 14]

On 09.02.2021 at 21:34, Marcin2 said:

What are the current privileges of China that come from developing country status at WTO ?

What kind of preferential treatment it gets at present in comparison with the United States ?

Why United States has not challenged status of China as developing country at WTO ?

(At WTO there is no definition of developed/developing country. Each country identifies itself as one. But other countries can challenge this status. How ? I do not know. I understand that with current balance of power only US can try to challenge status of China)

US and WTO has never recognised China as a developing country. "Developing country" is China's self-identification.

The WTO documents do not define the PRC's status as a “developing country”.

The WTO works on unanimous consent — new rules are adopted only with the agreement of all members, which means any member can veto proposed reforms.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/07/31/2019-16497/reforming-developing-country-status-in-the-world-trade-organization

26 July 2019, Memorandum on Reforming Developing-Country Status in the World Trade Organisation: “The United States has never accepted China’s claim to developing-country status...”.

«The United States has never accepted China's claim to developing-country status, and virtually every current economic indicator belies China's claim.»

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/07/31/2019-16497/reforming-developing-country-status-in-the-world-trade-organization

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-reforming-developing-country-status-world-trade-organization/

The only thing the US can do is offset duties on goods exported from China to the US. But with a rusty and leaky "democratic" Bidon, I think this is impossible.

 

Development Research Center (DRC) report: By 2032, China will become the largest economy in the world.

And with our help and the introduction of the "digital yuan" into the global financial turnover and the Chinese policy of "double circulation", this will happen in the period 2025-2030.

On which I congratulate you all!

PS In 2020, China's GNI per capita was US $ 9,471.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Andrew Neopalimy

[Marcin2 + 724]

On 2/10/2021 at 2:54 PM, Jan van Eck said:

Frankie does not understand the American mentality;  Frankie postulates that all Americans are "ignorant" and :girding for war;"  I assure the readers that that is not the case.  the Americans are quite indifferent to whether or not the Chinese are economically (and even politically) successful.  It is NOT a competition.  America does its thing; others can do their thing, as long as they do not violate behavioural norms of being polite and not invading their neighbors. 

 

The crux of the discussion about hegemony conflict between US and China is that this is not true.

Americans are not indifferent whether Chinese become rich and technologically advanced country.

Developed China constitute THE existential threat for the United States as a country in current political and international set-up

I will prove it in a few sentences.

Imagine a future scenario about developed, techonologically advanced and rich China.

Lets assume China has GDP per capita 80% of US GDP per capita (it is perfectly achievable in the future).

With population 4.5 times higher than US it means Chinese GDP will be 3.6 times higher than US GDP.

It means China will have GDP of 75 trillion USD. Let assume that it is a peace loving country and spends only 3.0% of GDP on military, that will be 2.25 trillion US dollars, 3 times current US military budget. So it will have 30 carrier battle groups, 10-12 of them on a constant patrol around the world. I think that because US military will be the second strongest, 50% of future Chinese military will be concentrated on US. It will mean 2 carrier battle groups  constantly patroling US East Coast, 1 in Mexican Bay and 2 US Pacific Coast.

Future China will spend 2.5% GDP on R&D (the same as now) which will be 1.8 trillion dollars (3-4 times US budget) and thus will be much more technologically advanced than the United States.

Because China will be the strongest economy and strongest military the yuan will be also dominating reserve currency. It will be globally agreed that crude oil will be sold only in yuan and never in US dollar.

Now you understand from this short and probable scenario, that developed China would push US to the relative position currently held by Japan or Germany, nothing less and nothing more. So developed China is the existential threat for The United States, it does not matter whether it would be democratic or authoritarian.