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Texans forced to have rolling black outs. Not from downed power line , but because the wind energy turbines are frozen.

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(edited)

6 minutes ago, turbguy said:

It ain't easy to add insulation to a double-wide.

 if you are talking one of these then extremely easy to externally insulate with 50-100mm of PIR / Phenolic / rockwool and then clad over the top

Probably easier to insulate the roof internally with plasterboard and 30-40mm phenolic. 

 

double wide.jpg

Edited by NickW
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4 minutes ago, NickW said:

Whats a double wide? 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance of US housing terminology

Manufactured housing, made in two pieces for ease of transport.  Like so:

Clipboard01.jpg

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Just now, turbguy said:

Manufactured housing, made in two pieces for ease of transport.  Like so:

Clipboard01.jpg

As per previous post. You may need to extend the gable end and front and rear roof overhangs if you want to really go thick on the insulation. Probably easier to opt for a thinner high performance material like phenolic. 

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(edited)

6 minutes ago, NickW said:

 if you are talking one of these then extremely easy to externally insulate with 50-100mm of PIR / Phenolic ? rockwool and then clad over the top

Probably easier to insulate the roof internally with plasterboard and 30-40mm phenolic. 

 

 

That move would cost a great fraction of the original product. 

 

Edited by turbguy
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2 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Manufactured housing, made in two pieces for ease of transport.  Like so:

Clipboard01.jpg

One would hope that standards have improved for whats being produced now as residential accomodation. 

Going back 20 years ago when I worked in regulation the requirements for wall insulation meant at least 6 inches of PIR / phenolic type foam in the walls to meet building standards (UK) 

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...and now water systems are failing.  Boil orders to follow.

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(edited)

10 minutes ago, NickW said:

One would hope that standards have improved for whats being produced now as residential accomodation. 

Going back 20 years ago when I worked in regulation the requirements for wall insulation meant at least 6 inches of PIR / phenolic type foam in the walls to meet building standards (UK) 

Hard to fit 6" of foam in walls that have only 3.5" thickness for insulation (or even less for manufactured homes).  It's hard enough to support the roof when you have all the used tires up there...

Edited by turbguy
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7 minutes ago, turbguy said:

That move would cost a great fraction of the original product.

 

60mm PIR board in the UK is about £8.70 per m2

With that unit you could strip off the cladding carefully. Fix timber battens with the insulation in between. Use counter battens to create an air gap. Put a reflective breather membrane over that (<£2 m2) and reclad using the old cladding. 

 

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1 minute ago, turbguy said:

Hard to fit 6" of foam in walls that have only 3.5" thickness for insulation (or even less for manufactured homes).

You externally wall insulate as previously described. 

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5 minutes ago, turbguy said:

...and now water systems are failing.  Boil orders to follow.

So Texas water plants don't have back up generation? 

 

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3 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Hard to fit 6" of foam in walls that have only 3.5" thickness for insulation (or even less for manufactured homes).

Well if the US govt / states are permitting garden sheds to be used as residential accommodation then that is a political problem. 

Its not a left / right wing issue - its a basic one of human decency and empathy in whats considered to be a wealthy and prosperous nation. 

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2 minutes ago, NickW said:

So Texas water plants don't have back up generation? 

 

Underground distribution lines (pipes) heaving/freezing/bursting.

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1 minute ago, NickW said:

Well if the US govt / states are permitting garden sheds to be used as residential accommodation then that is a political problem. 

Its not a left / right wing issue - its a basic one of human decency and empathy in whats considered to be a wealthy and prosperous nation. 

Yup.  They are cheap.  Some garden sheds are built to "higher standards".

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7 minutes ago, NickW said:

Whats a double wide? 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance of US housing terminology

The term derived from the width of a "standard" mobile home (a.k.a. "trailer), which is narrow enough to be towed on the highway and is completely pre-assembled at the factory. The "double wide" consists of two long sections, each of which can be towed on the highway. Both are examples of "modular" homes consisting of pre-assembled modules that are transported to the building site, but the terms "mobile home", "trailer", and "double wide" connote "cheap low-rent trailer park". In American culture, trailer parks are stigmatized as locations where poor, poorly-educated "trailer trash" live in substandard housing. Like most prejudices, this is grossly unfair and grossly oversimplified, but not completely untrue. There really are lots of such trailer parks, but there are also well maintained well-run trailer parks, and many, many trailers and double-wides that are not in parks at all, but instead are on their own lots, primarily in rural areas. Higher-end "modular housing" (three or more modules)  is usually standalone as an alternative to the typical "custom-built" or "stick-built" housing, and ranges from moderate to luxury.

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Just now, turbguy said:

Yup.  They are cheap.  Some garden sheds are built to "higher standards".

Not the ones with 3.5 inch walls

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Just now, Dan Clemmensen said:

The term derived from the width of a "standard" mobile home (a.k.a. "trailer), which is narrow enough to be towed on the highway and is completely pre-assembled at the factory. The "double wide" consists of two long sections, each of which can be towed on the highway. Both are examples of "modular" homes consisting of pre-assembled modules that are transported to the building site, but the terms "mobile home", "trailer", and "double wide" connote "cheap low-rent trailer park". In American culture, trailer parks are stigmatized as locations where poor, poorly-educated "trailer trash" live in substandard housing. Like most prejudices, this is grossly unfair and grossly oversimplified, but not completely untrue. There really are lots of such trailer parks, but there are also well maintained well-run trailer parks, and many, many trailers and double-wides that are not in parks at all, but instead are on their own lots, primarily in rural areas. Higher-end "modular housing" (three or more modules)  is usually standalone as an alternative to the typical "custom-built" or "stick-built" housing, and ranges from moderate to luxury.

We have trailer parks too. They range from bl00dy awful to OK but at least in the last 25 years building standards for residential units have been massively improved. 

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30 minutes ago, NickW said:

We have trailer parks too. They range from bl00dy awful to OK but at least in the last 25 years building standards for residential units have been massively improved. 

My local area has a pretty good trailer park next to the huge and shallow Poole harbor (south coast UK). Owners are not allowed to live there in January and February and water and electricity are cut off. Also,park charges are very high. Not a place for poor people to live. Most are holiday homes. Do you know of all-year trailer park residents elsewhere in UK?

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35 minutes ago, NickW said:

Well if the US govt / states are permitting garden sheds to be used as residential accommodation then that is a political problem. 

Its not a left / right wing issue - its a basic one of human decency and empathy in whats considered to be a wealthy and prosperous nation. 

I grew up in east Tennessee. My mom was a volunteer outreach nurse, trying to help the rural poor. In the 1970's, housing for the rural poor was often in "tar paper shacks", with maybe running water, but with outhouses instead of flush toilet. Electricity for the TV  and refrigerator and of course a car outside. "tar paper" is the material you put under the shingles when building a roof. These houses were constructed of 2x4 lumber with tar paper on the outside for walls and roof, and nothing else. Heat was supplied by a coal stove. In coal country, the coal was scavenged for free from the roadside. Folks with slightly more money had trailers, but generally extended them with tar paper shacks. This was our "wealthy and prosperous" nation 50 years ago.

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The one good thing about the power outages in Texas is they are making the California transplants feel right at home

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16 minutes ago, Richard D said:

My local area has a pretty good trailer park next to the huge and shallow Poole harbor (south coast UK). Owners are not allowed to live there in January and February and water and electricity are cut off. Also,park charges are very high. Not a place for poor people to live. Most are holiday homes. Do you know of all-year trailer park residents elsewhere in UK?

Thats licensed for holiday use which limits occupancy for 10-11 months

Residential sites are usually away from the coast, grotty and often run by pikeys

both licensed under caravan sites act 1968

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23 minutes ago, Dan Clemmensen said:

I grew up in east Tennessee. My mom was a volunteer outreach nurse, trying to help the rural poor. In the 1970's, housing for the rural poor was often in "tar paper shacks", with maybe running water, but with outhouses instead of flush toilet. Electricity for the TV  and refrigerator and of course a car outside. "tar paper" is the material you put under the shingles when building a roof. These houses were constructed of 2x4 lumber with tar paper on the outside for walls and roof, and nothing else. Heat was supplied by a coal stove. In coal country, the coal was scavenged for free from the roadside. Folks with slightly more money had trailers, but generally extended them with tar paper shacks. This was our "wealthy and prosperous" nation 50 years ago.

In the UK a lot of social housing was built for rural poor farmers workers . The farmer would donate the land. The council would build the houses and this way the workers had housing when they retired. The housing was ofa reasonable basic standard and million miles ahead of tar paper shacks.

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Some people are indicating the Texas emergency is the Lord's punishment for electing Cruz and Cornyn.

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2 hours ago, NickW said:

If you want to protect against rolling power cuts in all circumstances you need a sounded back up network whatever the fuel source. If your system is maxed out whether it be coal, gas, oil or nuclear if there is a trip in the transmission connection then someone is getting a blackout somewhere. If a Nuc trips out and shuts down you are looking at 10-14 days to get that back on line. 

I don't know how US utilities manage this. In the UK many large users are on part interruptible supplies which means they can be disconnected for short periods (large cold stores, centralised air con, some industrial processes). Also large numbers of emergency generators with companies / hospitals  can be fired up automatically to take the strain off the grid (they get a capacity payment for this). The diesel needs to be cycled through any way so might as well be used in this fashion and get a payment for it. This helps deal with the initial shortfall and provide back up power for  several hours / couple of days in regard to the generators. 

Like you I have major doubt about batteries although I see merit in repurposing redundant EV batteries for storage and grid stabilisation where they still have plenty of capacity. 

For grid storage there are some interesting developments. Saw this the other day using a fluid weighing 2.5x that of water 

Introduction (rheenergise.com)

 

It is interesting. I guess the success of it depends on  efficiency of solar or wind energy to  pump the high density hydro up the hill. 

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12 minutes ago, SUZNV said:

It is interesting. I guess the success of it depends on  efficiency of solar or wind energy to  pump the high density hydro up the hill. 

Pumped hydro typical returns with about 80% (+/-) efficiency, although it takes CONSIDERABLY longer to implement ancillary services than with batteries. It really can be quite profitable when you "buy low and sell high" every day...

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(edited)

"The ERCOT electric system is designed, apart from its other myriad functions, to evade federal jurisdiction. Period, full stop".

This is very true, but I have wondered how they can maintain at least 5 DC ties to the other interconnects, yet still avoid Federal Regulation.  Does the Edison/Tesla Current War go that deep into politics?  Does the interconnect have to maintain sync to avoid regulations?? 

Edited by turbguy
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