.

[Symmetry + 109]

12 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

I'll go with Johns Hopkins on this

 

That is a retracted newsletter not a publication from "Johns Hopkins."  FYI universities themselves do not write or endorse papers.  They do, however, get annoyed at and take down misinformation such as this which is why your link leads to an internet trash can, not a JHU site.

 

You know this because it has been pointed out to you before, yet you re-post OLD FAKE NEWS.

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Symmetry

[Symmetry + 109]

Why don't you go with Trump?  "All hail the vaccine I made!  I saved the world!"

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Symmetry

[turbguy + 1,398]

1 hour ago, Symmetry said:

Why don't you go with Trump?  "All hail the vaccine I made!  I saved the world!"

 

Whatever you might believe, his Operation Warp Speed was a good move. 

You might argue that some vaccines were not supported by it, but others WERE.  

His administration deserves some credit, even though it was genetic science that made the greater leaps on vaccine development and acceleration.

I just wish he would not have politicized other common, easy, and obvious public health measures...

Edited March 31, 2021 by turbguy

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

18 hours ago, turbguy said:

Will there soon be "Vaccine Passports"?

People are still free to choose not to be vaccinated, but might not be allowed in stores, restaurants, theaters, concerts, airlines, etc., if they have chosen not to be vaccinated.

It's their choice, but it should be the business owners' as well.

If the Supreme Court says the baker doesn't have to do a cake for a gay wedding, then an airline should be able to refuse a passenger who endangers other passengers.

 

[surrept33 + 609]

4 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

I'll go with Johns Hopkins on this.

A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19

I'll go with Johns Hopkins on this.

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19

from the human mortality database:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-raw-death-count?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&region=World

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

31 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

I'll go with Johns Hopkins on this.

Oh, you mean student "journalists"? 

Quote

We decided on Nov. 26 to retract this article to stop the spread of misinformation, as we noted on social media. However, it is our responsibility as journalists

Our world in data

Nothing but a progressive front organization

Edited April 1, 2021 by Ward Smith

[surrept33 + 609]

9 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Oh, you mean student "journalists"? 

Our world in data

Nothing but a progressive front organization

He linked a student journalist "study". Except that he posted the unretracted version that was misleading. 

"Our world in data" (which is fairly famous and is well regarded) is a initiative @ the University of Oxford. They are purely an aggregator in this case, from the projects @ Max Plank and the University of California, Berkeley to aggregate "life tables" from across the world. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

12 hours ago, surrept33 said:

He linked a student journalist "study". Except that he posted the unretracted version that was misleading. 

"Our world in data" (which is fairly famous and is well regarded) is a initiative @ the University of Oxford. They are purely an aggregator in this case, from the projects @ Max Plank and the University of California, Berkeley to aggregate "life tables" from across the world. 

No. He. Didn't. 

Doctor Briand is no "student journalist". It was published by the same student who yanked it, but was written By a respected PhD . Politically incorrect but factually accurate, of course it got cancelled. 

[surrept33 + 609]

55 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

No. He. Didn't. 

Doctor Briand is no "student journalist". It was published by the same student who yanked it, but was written By a respected PhD . Politically incorrect but factually accurate, of course it got cancelled. Only an Eejit can't see the forest for this tree. 

You're partially right, but it was a student who I guess wrote a summary of what (the Economics professor) said, indeed in the student run newspaper. 

Then it became viral over the wingnut conspiracy "media sources", and after the retraction, the newspaper was accused of engaging in an act of "cancelling", which also spread in the usual sources. 

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/12/on-the-retraction-of-a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-and-our-coverage-of-covid-19

Anyway, the CDC has maintained a comorbidity site for a while, the average number of other comorbidities was 4 in addition to COVID:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

Of course people would also get all sorts of other respiratory conditions. People not die from the HIV virus either. They die due to AIDS. You have to ask the counterfactual - what if the COVID epidemic had not happened?

Edited April 1, 2021 by surrept33

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

11 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Oh, you mean student "journalists"? 

Our world in data

Nothing but a progressive front organization

It is enlightening to see how the liberal activists pick and choose where and to whom liability does not apply:

Contact

You can always contact us at info@ourworldindata.org or fill in our Feedback form.

Legal disclaimer

To the fullest extent permitted by the applicable law, Our World in Data offers the websites and services as-is and makes no representations or warranties of any kind concerning the websites or services, express, implied, statutory or otherwise, including, without limitation, warranties of title, merchantibility, fitness for a particular purpose, or noninfringement. Our World in Data does not warrant that the functions or content contained on the website or services will be uninterrupted or error-free, that defects will be corrected, or that Our World in Data servers are free of viruses or other harmful components. Our World in Data does not warrant or make any representation regarding use or the result of use of the content in terms of accuracy, reliability, or otherwise.

Except to the extent required by applicable law and then only to that extent, in no event will Our World in Data, or the people working on and related to this website (“the Our World in Data parties”) be liable to you on any legal theory for any incidental, direct, indirect, punitive, actual, consequential, special, exemplary or other damages, including without limitation, loss of revenue or income, lost profits, pain and suffering, emotional distress, cost of substitute goods or services, or similar damages suffered or incurred by you or any third party that arise in connection with the websites or services (or the termination thereof for any reason), even if the Our World in Data parties have been advised of the possibility of such damages.

The Our World in Data parties shall not be responsible or liable whatsoever in any manner for any content posted on the websites or services (including claims of infringement relating to content posted on the websites or services, for your use of the websites and services, or for the conduct of third parties whether on the websites, in connection with the services or otherwise relating to the websites or services.

[surrept33 + 609]

4 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

It is enlightening to see how the liberal activists pick and choose where and to whom liability does not apply:

Contact

You can always contact us at info@ourworldindata.org or fill in our Feedback form.

Legal disclaimer

To the fullest extent permitted by the applicable law, Our World in Data offers the websites and services as-is and makes no representations or warranties of any kind concerning the websites or services, express, implied, statutory or otherwise, including, without limitation, warranties of title, merchantibility, fitness for a particular purpose, or noninfringement. Our World in Data does not warrant that the functions or content contained on the website or services will be uninterrupted or error-free, that defects will be corrected, or that Our World in Data servers are free of viruses or other harmful components. Our World in Data does not warrant or make any representation regarding use or the result of use of the content in terms of accuracy, reliability, or otherwise.

Except to the extent required by applicable law and then only to that extent, in no event will Our World in Data, or the people working on and related to this website (“the Our World in Data parties”) be liable to you on any legal theory for any incidental, direct, indirect, punitive, actual, consequential, special, exemplary or other damages, including without limitation, loss of revenue or income, lost profits, pain and suffering, emotional distress, cost of substitute goods or services, or similar damages suffered or incurred by you or any third party that arise in connection with the websites or services (or the termination thereof for any reason), even if the Our World in Data parties have been advised of the possibility of such damages.

The Our World in Data parties shall not be responsible or liable whatsoever in any manner for any content posted on the websites or services (including claims of infringement relating to content posted on the websites or services, for your use of the websites and services, or for the conduct of third parties whether on the websites, in connection with the services or otherwise relating to the websites or services.

More like: their lawyers wrote that, not the "liberal activists" (if they are ones? or perhaps they are part of the evil main stream cabal).  If they are based in the UK, they have less shielding than the US related to these manners anyways.  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:14 AM, turbguy said:

So, the American Public can't handle the truth.

I have always found the truth a better path than a lie.

If you feel differently, that's another view.

Eventually, the truth comes out.

For those that don't believe COVID-19 is a serious issue, requiring telling the truth up front, please explain all the red plus marks on the excess death graphic below...

An yes, it includes motorcycle accidents and mass shootings.

 

Nobody said it wasn't serious, it should not be used to destroy constitutional freedoms though. Our freedoms are being constantly challenged by government at all levels. Enough is enough. We should have reopened long ago. We should have used othrer remedies that were available long before the vaccines were. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

On 3/30/2021 at 3:52 PM, turbguy said:

Have you heard of these places called hospices? They are used.  By many.

I can find no reasoning for our prior president to hold any punches.  It was lie after repeated lie.

Did his Warp Speed team perform well?  I would say it did.  It would have been much slower without recent development of cheap and rapid gene sequencing, primarily due to advances in computing.   Warp Speed was a good move.   His politicizing and outright non-support of common public health measures was not.

I hearken back to the spring a year ago when he was demanding that armed citizens "liberate" their states so that people could once again be free to do the things that they had always done; to return to their lives without any thought or care of how their carelessness might impact others.

The current president is being responsible, something that his predecessor was not.

I needed time and distance before I replied to this thought of just lay it on them.

To answer your commentary towards The Nation Can Handle it...300 million opinions cannot handle facing death..after all who's next? The teachers across the US demonstrated childish self indulgent behavior after 1 yr of exposure to covid and over a shot in the arm!

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,398]

9 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Nobody said it wasn't serious, it should not be used to destroy constitutional freedoms though. Our freedoms are being constantly challenged by government at all levels. Enough is enough. We should have reopened long ago. We should have used othrer remedies that were available long before the vaccines were. 

I happen to recall several comments by a former president who inferred it wasn't serious.

Can you be more explicit concerning what constitutional freedom(s) was being destroyed by public health orders from the States?

As far as I can see, you could still have:

• First Amendment [Religion, Speech, Press, Assembly, Petition (1791)]
• Second Amendment [Right to Bear Arms (1791)]
• Third Amendment [Quartering of Troops (1791)]
• Fourth Amendment [Search and Seizure (1791)]
• Fifth Amendment [Grand Jury, Double Jeopardy, Self-Incrimination, Due Process (1791)]
• Sixth Amendment [Criminal Prosecutions - Jury Trial, Right to Confront and to Counsel (1791)]
• Seventh Amendment [Common Law Suits - Jury Trial (1791)]
• Eighth Amendment [Excess Bail or Fines, Cruel and Unusual Punishment (1791)]
• Ninth Amendment [Non-Enumerated Rights (1791)]
• Tenth Amendment [Rights Reserved to States or People (1791)]

Some  opponents understandably are desperate to get back to work. Some just want to get back to their lives. Their right to protest is absolute!  The right to get a haircut or go to the movies is not. The Constitution doesn’t give anyone the right to spread coronavirus, any more than it entitles smokers to light up wherever they want.

Edited April 2, 2021 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

46 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Can you be more explicit concerning what constitutional freedom(s) was being destroyed by public health orders from the States?

Hi Turbguy, perhaps you might articulate a smidge more on these "PUBLIC HEALTH" orders. 

Who issued these orders 

Are these orders constitutional 

And this constitutional right to protest...I do believe you to be correct however if you take a look at that part of the constitution you might notice a small paragraph or two.

Equal protection under the law

The right to due process

While I am in agreement with much of your sentiments the US constitution is being basterdized to satisfy personal opinions.

And to Ron's point, US citizens rights are be smothered is the word I will use. This whole debacle of discord will end badly someday, due soley to opinions vs the rule of law. 

Which leads to culture issues, so many culture's so many opinions. But that is another debacle unfolding, and one I do not relish engaging...

[turbguy + 1,398]

7 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Hi Turbguy, perhaps you might articulate a smidge more on these "PUBLIC HEALTH" orders. 

Who issued these orders 

Are these orders constitutional 

And this constitutional right to protest...I do believe you to be correct however if you take a look at that part of the constitution you might notice a small paragraph or two.

Equal protection under the law

The right to due process

While I am in agreement with much of your sentiments the US constitution is being basterdized to satisfy personal opinions.

And to Ron's point, US citizens rights are be smothered is the word I will use. This whole debacle of discord will end badly someday, due soley to opinions vs the rule of law. 

Which leads to culture issues, so many culture's so many opinions. But that is another debacle unfolding, and one I do not relish engaging...

Can you be more explicit about what Constitutional freedoms are being/have been smothered?  I did not see any in this response. 

Just one would be fine to start with.

In my state (and probably many others), the "who does what" is spelled out in both the state's constitution and codified laws.

Edited April 2, 2021 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

1 minute ago, turbguy said:

Can you be more explicit about what Constitutional freedoms are being/have been smothered?  I did not see any in this response. 

Just one would be fine to start with.

Rules of decorum being called out...that would be...I asked first! decorum requires a answer not a question....

Lmao such is life in a world run amuck.

[turbguy + 1,398]

Okay.

I feel I asked first, did not recognize a direct answer, and repeated the question.

So be it.

Since when has the world not run amuck?

Edited April 2, 2021 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

8 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Okay.

I feel I asked first, did not recognize a direct answer, and repeated the question.

So be it.

Since when has the world not run amuck?

Who issued these orders 

Are these orders constitutional 

I do believe below is a statement 

Some  opponents understandably are desperate to get back to work. Some just want to get back to their lives. Their right to protest is absolute!  The right to get a haircut or go to the movies is not. The Constitution doesn’t give anyone the right to spread coronavirus, any more than it entitles smokers to light up wherever they want.

 

 

 

Can you be more explicit concerning what constitutional freedom(s) was being destroyed by public health orders from the States?

Edited April 2, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[turbguy + 1,398]

13 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Who issued these orders 

Are these orders constitutional 

I do believe below is a statement 

Some  opponents understandably are desperate to get back to work. Some just want to get back to their lives. Their right to protest is absolute!  The right to get a haircut or go to the movies is not. The Constitution doesn’t give anyone the right to spread coronavirus, any more than it entitles smokers to light up wherever they want.

The "who issues what" is  enumerated in my state's constitution and codified laws passed by the Legislators.  I suspect they are the same in your state.

They have been found by Courts to not be in violation of the Constitution.

Similar to the fact that you (and I) can be legally ordered to undergo a medical procedure or quarantine against your (and my) will, without violating any part of the Constitution.

That sucks...and that's the way it is.

Edited April 2, 2021 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

19 minutes ago, turbguy said:

The "who issues what" is  enumerated in my state's constitution and codified laws passed by the Legislators.  I suspect they are the same in your state.

They have been found by Courts to not be in violation of the Constitution.

Similar to the fact that you (and I) can be legally ordered to undergo a medical procedure or quarantine against your (and my) will, without violating any part of the Constitution.

That sucks...and that's the way it is.

Ahh I am being informed...Wyoming passed legislation in regards to covid?

[turbguy + 1,398]

9 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Ahh I am being informed...Wyoming passed legislation in regards to covid?

Wyoming passed legislation many years ago concerning public health.

That legislation was enacted for Covid.

Some current legislators did not like what those before them had done.

Those current Legislators are now attempting to change prior legislation.

They may have a tough time changing the state's constitution. That has to go to the Voters.

Wyoming has the lowest percentage of eligible voters who are registered than ANY other state (about 45% or so).

Edited April 2, 2021 by turbguy

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

2 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Wyoming passed legislation many years ago concerning public health.

That legislation was enacted for Covid.

Some current legislators did not like what those before them had done.

Those current Legislators are now attempting to change prior legislation.

They may have a tough time changing the state's constitution.

It is good to see Wyoming act responsibly using law and not opinions. I need to look at these laws only for my own self interests. I also believe only a fool would not vaccinate themselves if over say 25 yrs old... It's the old adage be there or be square theme...maybe be there or not be there comes to mind.

At the same time I truly believe covid is being used heavily as a political tool to suppress a certain presidents efforts. As we both have said a world run amuck soley due to opinions. What is coming should not be based upon opinions it will be extraordinarily expensive and not dollar wise.

[Roch + 537]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:27 AM, Jeffrey Brown said:

If Trump had followed the South Korean model, it wouldn't have been necessary to shut down a large part of the economy, and he would not have caused the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans.  Instead, Trump--and his sycophantic followers--denied reality, with the obvious consequences.  

Ayn Rand in 1961:

"He is free to make the wrong choice, but not free to succeed with it. He is free to evade reality, he is free to unfocus his mind and stumble blindly down any road he pleases, but not free to avoid the abyss he refuses to see. Knowledge, for any conscious organism, is the means of survival; to a living consciousness, every “is” implies an “ought.” Man is free to choose not to be conscious, but not free to escape the penalty of unconsciousness: destruction."

 

 

WSJ:  How South Korea Successfully Managed Coronavirus (9/25/20)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/lessons-from-south-korea-on-how-to-manage-covid-11601044329

Excerpt:

“South Korea appears to have cracked the code for managing the coronavirus. Its solution is straightforward, flexible and relatively easy to replicate. . . .As a result, South Korea never had to mandate a lockdown, so restaurants and business were able to stay open, cushioning the blow to the economy.”

Dr. Fauci wanted the CDC to develop the testing kits.  Trump wanted to source the ones immediately available.  The Dr. Fauci insisted the U.S. develop their own test kit.  

The D.C. bureaucrats F'd Up.  Wasted three to four months where U.S. could have nipped the virus in the bud. 

 

* Dr. Fauci went public in February and said nothing to worry about . Virus not that bad. 

* Dr. Fauci said masks don't help.

* Dr. Fauci said the end of February don't go to hospitals because "we're still in the middle of the Flu season"

* Dr. Fauci said could Covid could only transmit via direct contact , not aerosol (air) .

* Dr. Fauci argued with the President advising him to NOT ban travel between China.

* Fauci said he was a top athlete when he was young. Yet when throwing the opening day pitch for the Washington Senators could not through a baseball even halfway to the catcher and was off 20 ft to the right of the catcher.. 

Dr. FAUCI .  .  .  AMERICA'S DOCTOR.

Even though he's passing "guessing" off as scientific dogma. 

Fauci has been wrong most of the time. 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Roch

[turbguy + 1,398]

33 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It is good to see Wyoming act responsibly using law and not opinions. I need to look at these laws only for my own self interests. I also believe only a fool would not vaccinate themselves if over say 25 yrs old... It's the old adage be there or be square theme...maybe be there or not be there comes to mind.

At the same time I truly believe covid is being used heavily as a political tool to suppress a certain presidents efforts. As we both have said a world run amuck soley due to opinions. What is coming should not be based upon opinions it will be extraordinarily expensive and not dollar wise.

Don't ignore the actuality that It is quite clear that there is a close affinity between public opinion and law, because laws represent the will of the people.

Laws are supposed by public opinion, not by economics.  Although economics do influence public opinion.

I received my second Moderna dose two weeks ago.  Had a slight fever the day after the second dose (and a sore spot in the arm, as expected).  Yippy?

Edited April 2, 2021 by turbguy