GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Trying to convert transportation to EVs brings a host of problems, 

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Major-Problem-With-EVs-No-One-Is-Talking-About.html

"When GM earlier this year started recalling Bolts, it issued a warning to owners of the EV: don’t charge your car battery to 100 percent. Normally, this would be easy enough to do. But what if your charger got hacked?

Last year, researchers from the Southwest Research Institute in Texas successfully hacked the most popular charging system used in North America. The hack limited the charging rate, then blocked charging, and then overcharged the battery. The reason for the hack: “This was an initiative designed to identify potential threats in common charging hardware as we prepare for widespread adoption of electric vehicles in the coming decade,” according to lead researcher Austin Dodson."

Edited September 8, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

China is rapidly increasing its reliance on coal for electricity generation.

Greta, where are you? 

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Coal/Chinese-Coal-Prices-Hit-Record-Highs.html

"Under current high prices, miners have been incentivized to boost production. This poses higher risk of accidents, which in turn leads to more frequent examinations," Morgan Stanley analyst Sara Chan said in a report. "Coal production is constrained as a result and this creates a circular loop for even higher prices."

The circular loop may persist for now, but it's only a matter of time before China ramps up production as the alternative is an unacceptable surge in prices. This means much more pollution emerging from China in the coming year; this is happening as 23 of the world's 25 most polluting cities are already in China.

Like other countries in Asia and Europe, China’s coal shortages and surging prices reflect the contradiction between the long-term need to move away from coal and the short-term challenge of meeting power demand. In the short term, higher coal prices are signalling the need to boost production to meet power producers’ needs and build sufficient stocks ahead of the winter heating season.

Meanwhile, demonstrating just how much of a straw man China's promises to clean up its act truly are, also on Tuesday China’s carbon price slumped to a new low even as trading volumes increased. Emission allowances traded on China's carbon market, the largest in the world, declined -0.2% Tuesday to close at 43.90 yuan ($6.80) a metric ton, the National Carbon Emissions Trading Agency said in a statement. Price is lowest since the market launched in July, with allowances closing Monday at 44 yuan a ton, signifying that virtually nobody on the mainland is actually serious about reducing the intensity of emissions generation."

Edited September 8, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

The hysterical rhetoric of the United Nations on "climate" issues is being heavily criticized in Australia.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Coal/UN-Draws-Criticism-With-Special-Treatment-Of-China-In-Coal-Phase-Out.html

"Coal is a major export commodity for Australia and this year has been a bumper one for the most polluting fossil fuel as a shortage of supply and a boom in demand pushed coal prices to the highest in years. And unlike Australia, China is not being called upon to phase out coal by 2030. “The U.N. has exposed their real agenda this week,” Australian Senator Matt Canavan told The Epoch Times this week following Hart’s speech. “This isn’t about changing the climate, it is about changing our society.”"

Edited September 8, 2021 by Ecocharger

[turbguy + 1,391]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:06 AM, Ecocharger said:

Yes, a free market would use ICE, not EV. It is necessary for the government to ban sales of ICE. 

You realize that our planet does not respond to human markets, no?

Only humans respond to human markets.

The planet operates on a whole OTHER "market".

And it ain't cybercurrency.

The planet ecosphere is "operated" by innumerable tiny green and itty-bitty squiggly things, NOT humans.

If markets were really "free", murder would be an acceptable marketplace practice.  Regulation deters that.

Just think of response to climate issues as another required regulation.

Easy-peasy!

It probably does your pocketbook no good.

I believe that almost 100% of the human population cares little for YOUR pocketbook.

I KNOW the planet cares nothing about that...

Edited September 8, 2021 by turbguy

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

On 9/7/2021 at 2:06 AM, Ecocharger said:

Yes, a free market would use ICE, not EV. It is necessary for the government to ban sales of ICE. 

This is not a technological transition, but an intervention against the market.

 

If this were true then people would keep buying ICE right up until the ban. But that isn't what is happening. Consumers are switching to EVs long before the ban. 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

If this were true then people would keep buying ICE right up until the ban. But that isn't what is happening. Consumers are switching to EVs long before the ban. 

"Consumers" are also buying more ICEs than EVs in absolute terms, even from your own data. Add in the secondary used market for used cars....

Edited September 8, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

"Consumers" are also buying more ICEs than EVs in absolute terms, even from your own data. Add in the secondary used market for used cars....

The number of pure ICE new car sales are plummeting, actually more like collapsing in Europe and China. 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

15 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The number of pure ICE new car sales are plummeting, actually more like collapsing in Europe and China. 

Again, Jay, show us total sales including second-hand sales, and total vehicle stock.

The EVs are still a small percentage.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Here is the reality of the energy market, Biden & Co. must face reality with their counter-oil agenda.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Soaring-Gasoline-Prices-Could-Cripple-Bidens-Energy-Agenda.html

"In his column, the Chron’s Tomlinson notes that for all his talk about energy transition, Biden has yet to make oil producers pay for the pollution that their products generate. If he did, they would immediately pass these additional costs to the consumers. And this, in turn, would mean an 18-percent price hike at the pump. And it would cost the president his approval rating.

The WSJ’s Nordhaus and Bazilian recall how attempts by the Democrats to put a price on pollution via a federal BTU tax in 1994 and a cap-and-trade program in 2010 may have well cost them their congressional majority in the elections that followed these proposals. The BTU (British thermal units) tax would have made all fossil fuels more expensive. So would have the cap-and-trade scheme, which is effectively a way to create a market for emissions, as the EU has done. And Americans, like people in every other country, do not want to pay a lot for gasoline, even if it pollutes the air they breathe."

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Oil demand has already surpassed the pre-Covid pandemic levels.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/world-s-top-oil-guzzlers-surpass-pre-pandemic-consumption-1.1649610

"Oil demand in China, the world’s top energy consumer, will be 13% higher in the fourth quarter than in the same period in 2019 before the pandemic, according to SIA Energy. Indian fuel sales extended a rebound in August, while American demand for petroleum products recently surged to a record high.   This improvement in consumption across the two Asian giants and the U.S. is buoying oil prices that have rallied around 40% this year. Against this backdrop, the OPEC+ alliance decided to keep restoring crude supply earlier this month, citing tighter balances into year-end.  “The worst for Asian fuel demand is over and we see a soft recovery of oil demand in the coming months,” said Sengyick Tee, an analyst at Beijing-based SIA. China’s overall oil consumption will be led by a more than 20% jump in gasoline use next quarter from 2019, he said. "

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Again, Jay, show us total sales including second-hand sales, and total vehicle stock.

The EVs are still a small percentage.

I did sow you the total new sales numbers for three countries with ICE bans on the books for many years from now yet ICE sales are collapsing today. 

 

Used cars and total stock are irrelevant to this point.

 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I did sow you the total new sales numbers for three countries with ICE bans on the books for many years from now yet ICE sales are collapsing today. 

 

Used cars and total stock are irrelevant to this point.

 

Stock numbers are the only thing that counts as far as demand for oil and gasoline, quit stalling.

And oil demand is exceeding the pre-Covid levels, contrary to your expectations, Jay.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Talk about hypocrisy, here it is in spades,

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Oil-Companies-Need-To-Plan-For-50-Output-Cuts-Carbon-Tracker.html

"Earlier this year, the International Energy Agency called for the suspension of all new oil and gas exploration by the end of this year if the world was to succeed in its energy transition efforts. Yet not much later, the agency called on OPEC to boost oil production as prices skyrocketed amid a strong rebound in oil demand."

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Britain is firing up their coal plants again, and relying heavily on natural gas....wind and solar sources are just not good enough to meet the need.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/UK-Power-Prices-Soar-To-Records-On-High-Gas-Price-Lack-Of-Wind.html "The UK has relied on some coal-fired power generation every day since mid-August, when there was a three-day run of coal-free electricity supply, a spokesman for National Grid ESO told the BBC. The UK, as well as the rest of Europe, are bracing for further spikes in power prices when the heating season begins. The natural gas levels in storage in Europe are significantly below normal because of a cold snap in the spring and surging prices of natural gas amid lower shipments from Gazprom and soaring prices for liquefied natural gas (LNG). For European consumers, energy prices are a pain point, and this year’s surging prices feed into inflation and the cost of goods. In Germany, Europe’s biggest economy, higher energy prices pushed the annual inflation to a 13-year high in August, as household energy, motor fuels, and food prices jumped. Spain also saw a jump in inflation to the highest in several years due to surging electricity prices."

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

59 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Stock numbers are the only thing that counts as far as demand for oil and gasoline, quit stalling.

And oil demand is exceeding the pre-Covid levels, contrary to your expectations, Jay.

You are just changing the topic. Government bans are not forcing people to buy EVs. People are buying rapidly increasing numbers of EV's of their own free will.

US EIA cuts 2022 global oil demand outlook by 240,000 b/d

https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/oil/090821-us-eia-cuts-2022-global-oil-demand-outlook-by-240000-bd

•  

Edited September 9, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

25 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You are just changing the topic. Government bans are not forcing people to buy EVs. People are buying rapidly increasing numbers of EV's of their own free will.

US EIA cuts 2022 global oil demand outlook by 240,000 b/d

https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/oil/090821-us-eia-cuts-2022-global-oil-demand-outlook-by-240000-bd

•  

Reality trumps (excuse the expression) forecasts. Oil demand is already exceeding pre-pandemic levels, which disproves your earlier forecasts, Jay. Just par for the course.

EVs remain a tiny percentage of the vehicle stock. ICE vehicles on the road continue to climb in vast numbers. You and I are smart to drive ICE vehicles, that makes sense.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

10 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Reality trumps (excuse the expression) forecasts. Oil demand is already exceeding pre-pandemic levels, which disproves your earlier forecasts, Jay. Just par for the course.

EVs remain a tiny percentage of the vehicle stock. 

 

Either you can't read and think or you are being disingenuous. The article you cite says that some sectors in some countries have jumped above 2019 levels. But it does not say that global demand has exceeded 2019.

Here is reality for you:

Global demand is still well below 2019. https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/global_oil.php

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 9/8/2021 at 2:14 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

If this were true then people would keep buying ICE right up until the ban. But that isn't what is happening. Consumers are switching to EVs long before the ban. 

No references provided. I see little evidence of a high percentage of electric vehicle sales by 2030. The price of electricity is now a major issue due to his anti fossil fuel options. Wind turbines and solar will face equal cost issues. This is eco-fascism in action and the average person is facing horrendous inflation in energy and vehicle prices. 

We are facing inflationary economic policies from the far left. Everyone but the wealthy have great reason to be worried about the value of the dollar. Taxes will also be higher. Retirement income will not keep up with inflation. Government inflation estimates do not include groceries and fuel. 

The president does not have the power to enforce EV mandates without the continued support of congress, which will likely disappear in 16 months. There will be a lot of resistance to any dictatorial rules regarding what people choose to drive. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

No references provided. I see little evidence of a high percentage of electric vehicle sales by 2030. The price of electricity is now a major issue due to his anti fossil fuel options. Wind turbines and solar will face equal cost issues. This is eco-fascism in action and the average person is facing horrendous inflation in energy and vehicle prices. 

We are facing inflationary economic policies from the far left. Everyone but the wealthy have great reason to be worried about the value of the dollar. Taxes will also be higher. Retirement income will not keep up with inflation. Government inflation estimates do not include groceries and fuel. 

The president does not have the power to enforce EV mandates without the continued support of congress, which will likely disappear in 16 months. There will be a lot of resistance to any dictatorial rules regarding what people choose to drive. 

Your reading continuity skills are worse than Eco's. I posted the evidence back on page 71 of this thread and the discussion has continued from there.

The US has no lack of demand for EV's, we have a lack of supply and that is going to change starting next year. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Either you can't read and think or you are being disingenuous. The article you cite says that some sectors in some countries have jumped above 2019 levels. But it does not say that global demand has exceeded 2019.

Here is reality for you:

Global demand is still well below 2019. https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/global_oil.php

That leaves coal out of the fossil fuel figures. Not a viable analysis of fossil fuel use. Coal is the biggest polluter by far. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

Just now, ronwagn said:

That leaves coal out of the fossil fuel figures. Not a viable analysis of fossil fuel use. Coal is the biggest polluter by far. 

It leaves coal out because we were discussing oil, duh.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Your reading continuity skills are worse than Eco's. I posted the evidence back on page 71 of this thread and the discussion has continued from there.

The US has no lack of demand for EV's, we have a lack of supply and that is going to change starting next year. 

There will be a continued demand for EV's by those that can afford them. They must make them affordable for the masses before they can compete in numbers sold. Vehicle prices are skyrocketing. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It leaves coal out because we were discussing oil, duh.

Duh. Coal is a major producer of electricity worldwide and must be considered since EV's will require electricity. Any rational discussion needs to look at the big picture.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

7 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Duh. Coal is a major producer of electricity worldwide and must be considered since EV's will require electricity. Any rational discussion needs to look at the big picture.

The dramatic increase in cost for coal and natural gas makes solar and wind more competitive than ever before. 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

5 hours ago, ronwagn said:

There will be a continued demand for EV's by those that can afford them. They must make them affordable for the masses before they can compete in numbers sold. Vehicle prices are skyrocketing. 

The Biden & Co. administration probably know that the EV road is a dead end, they cannot force the American people to buy overpriced transport for personal use. Jay and I are smart, we are sticking with the ICE vehicles.