GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[turbguy + 1,391]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

A hundred years ago you would have said "We were discussing the viability of ICE dragging a trailer versus a horse and you confirmed in your comment that all the methods you would recommend were horses."

High torque, at zero RPM!

Edited December 9, 2021 by turbguy

[notsonice + 1,062]

5 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

We were discussing the viability of light duty EV's versus light duty ICE's. 

For heavy haul operations (on or off road), I don't think that anyone is realistically suggesting that EV's are ready for commercial use. We are discussing light duty trucks which might ocassionally engage in a more challenging situation.  

The discussion was veering off into heavy duty and commercial use territory, and my point is that no light duty EV OR ICE vehicles are suitable for that sort of operation.  half ton pickups are light duty vehicles for a reason.  They are tremendously limited in their capabilities compared to commercial vehicles.   

cat is working on a 200 ton class battery autonomous truck right now, they are behind the curve

you are also behind the curve..... I don't think that anyone is realistically suggesting that EV's are ready for commercial use......What are you babbling about?

please note the truck below has a 8 hour run time per charge

World's first 120-ton electric mining dump truck equipped with CATL batteries successfully rolls off production line

6/24/2021

On June 23, the world's first 120-ton electric mining dump truck with AC drive equipped with CATL batteries successfully rolled off the production line at Xiangtan Electric Manufacturing Co. Ltd. (XEMC) and is scheduled to be put into trial operation in mines in July. This product will be used for transportation in open-pit mines as a stellar example of the intelligent electrification era, promoting the mining industry's development towards low-carbon, energy efficient products and environmental protection.

 

Innovative technologies enable excellent performance

The trucks are equipped with CATL's large-capacity, ultra-safe lithium iron phosphate traction batteries, which can meet the demand for high-power charging thanks to high-voltage, fast-charging technology. 

 

Featuring high energy density, the batteries with unique cell-to-pack (CTP) technology can work continuously for eight hours after being fully charged. The smart BMS can monitor the battery's health status 24/7, and accurately predict the charging state. 

 

The smart thermal management system can ensure that the battery can work efficiently between -30℃ and 60℃ to enable electric mining dump trucks to operate under all weather conditions.

 

Safe and reliable

 

Selected raw materials and their sophisticated design supported by multi-level protection, an automatic manufacturing process and comprehensive testing and verification make CATL's traction batteries safe and reliable.

 

Electric mining dump trucks usually work under complex conditions involving a lot of dirt and dust. Therefore, the batteries must meet high requirements in order to remain dustproof and perform well. The traction batteries manufactured by CATL have obtained an IP68 rating, the highest in the industry, which shows they are protected against erosion and dust in a mining environment, enabling them to operate in a stable manner under complex conditions.

 

Cost-effective and environmentally friendly with green power

 

Compared with 100-ton fuel trucks, the 120-ton electric mining dump truck has realized the goal of zero emissions, reducing carbon emissions by 1,500 tons for each vehicle per year. The energy cost is thus reduced by 50% and the overall maintenance cost is reduced by 20%.

 

In addition, the truck makes little noise and is comfortable to operate. In the future, CATL will join forces with more partners to promote a wider application of traction batteries in commercial vehicles and together create the era of intelligent electrification.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by notsonice

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

23 minutes ago, notsonice said:

cat is working on a 200 ton class battery autonomous truck right now, they are behind the curve

you are also behind the curve..... I don't think that anyone is realistically suggesting that EV's are ready for commercial use......What are you babbling about?

please note the truck below has a 8 hour run time per charge

World's first 120-ton electric mining dump truck equipped with CATL batteries successfully rolls off production line

6/24/2021

On June 23, the world's first 120-ton electric mining dump truck with AC drive equipped with CATL batteries successfully rolled off the production line at Xiangtan Electric Manufacturing Co. Ltd. (XEMC) and is scheduled to be put into trial operation in mines in July. This product will be used for transportation in open-pit mines as a stellar example of the intelligent electrification era, promoting the mining industry's development towards low-carbon, energy efficient products and environmental protection.

 

Innovative technologies enable excellent performance

The trucks are equipped with CATL's large-capacity, ultra-safe lithium iron phosphate traction batteries, which can meet the demand for high-power charging thanks to high-voltage, fast-charging technology. 

 

Featuring high energy density, the batteries with unique cell-to-pack (CTP) technology can work continuously for eight hours after being fully charged. The smart BMS can monitor the battery's health status 24/7, and accurately predict the charging state. 

 

The smart thermal management system can ensure that the battery can work efficiently between -30℃ and 60℃ to enable electric mining dump trucks to operate under all weather conditions.

 

Safe and reliable

 

Selected raw materials and their sophisticated design supported by multi-level protection, an automatic manufacturing process and comprehensive testing and verification make CATL's traction batteries safe and reliable.

 

Electric mining dump trucks usually work under complex conditions involving a lot of dirt and dust. Therefore, the batteries must meet high requirements in order to remain dustproof and perform well. The traction batteries manufactured by CATL have obtained an IP68 rating, the highest in the industry, which shows they are protected against erosion and dust in a mining environment, enabling them to operate in a stable manner under complex conditions.

 

Cost-effective and environmentally friendly with green power

 

Compared with 100-ton fuel trucks, the 120-ton electric mining dump truck has realized the goal of zero emissions, reducing carbon emissions by 1,500 tons for each vehicle per year. The energy cost is thus reduced by 50% and the overall maintenance cost is reduced by 20%.

 

In addition, the truck makes little noise and is comfortable to operate. In the future, CATL will join forces with more partners to promote a wider application of traction batteries in commercial vehicles and together create the era of intelligent electrification.

 

Uses cobalt free LFP batteries. @Ecocharger isn't going to be happy about this.

"The trucks are equipped with CATL's large-capacity, ultra-safe lithium iron phosphate traction batteries, which can meet the demand for high-power charging thanks to high-voltage, fast-charging technology. "

Edited December 9, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,391]

6 minutes ago, notsonice said:

cat is working on a 200 ton class battery autonomous truck right now, they are behind the curve

you are also behind the curve..... I don't think that anyone is realistically suggesting that EV's are ready for commercial use......What are you babbling about?

please note the truck below has a 8 hour run time per charge

World's first 120-ton electric mining dump truck equipped with CATL batteries successfully rolls off production line

6/24/2021

On June 23, the world's first 120-ton electric mining dump truck with AC drive equipped with CATL batteries successfully rolled off the production line at Xiangtan Electric Manufacturing Co. Ltd. (XEMC) and is scheduled to be put into trial operation in mines in July. This product will be used for transportation in open-pit mines as a stellar example of the intelligent electrification era, promoting the mining industry's development towards low-carbon, energy efficient products and environmental protection.

 

Innovative technologies enable excellent performance

The trucks are equipped with CATL's large-capacity, ultra-safe lithium iron phosphate traction batteries, which can meet the demand for high-power charging thanks to high-voltage, fast-charging technology. 

 

Featuring high energy density, the batteries with unique cell-to-pack (CTP) technology can work continuously for eight hours after being fully charged. The smart BMS can monitor the battery's health status 24/7, and accurately predict the charging state. 

 

The smart thermal management system can ensure that the battery can work efficiently between -30℃ and 60℃ to enable electric mining dump trucks to operate under all weather conditions.

 

Safe and reliable

 

Selected raw materials and their sophisticated design supported by multi-level protection, an automatic manufacturing process and comprehensive testing and verification make CATL's traction batteries safe and reliable.

 

Electric mining dump trucks usually work under complex conditions involving a lot of dirt and dust. Therefore, the batteries must meet high requirements in order to remain dustproof and perform well. The traction batteries manufactured by CATL have obtained an IP68 rating, the highest in the industry, which shows they are protected against erosion and dust in a mining environment, enabling them to operate in a stable manner under complex conditions.

 

Cost-effective and environmentally friendly with green power

 

Compared with 100-ton fuel trucks, the 120-ton electric mining dump truck has realized the goal of zero emissions, reducing carbon emissions by 1,500 tons for each vehicle per year. The energy cost is thus reduced by 50% and the overall maintenance cost is reduced by 20%.

 

In addition, the truck makes little noise and is comfortable to operate. In the future, CATL will join forces with more partners to promote a wider application of traction batteries in commercial vehicles and together create the era of intelligent electrification.

 

That's one way to reduce coal's "carbon footprint"!

Electric loco's, too!

[notsonice + 1,062]

9 minutes ago, turbguy said:

That's one way to reduce coal's "carbon footprint"!

Electric loco's, too!

yep and since all haul trucks over 100 tonnes have electric rear wheel drive motors getting rid of the diesel gen set up front and replacing them with batteries  is not a major feat.

[notsonice + 1,062]

12 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Uses cobalt free LFP batteries.

"The trucks are equipped with CATL's large-capacity, ultra-safe lithium iron phosphate traction batteries, which can meet the demand for high-power charging thanks to high-voltage, fast-charging technology. "

CATL are premier batteries , not some backyard start up

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

The risk of relying on renewable energy sources has caught up with Europe. This is what happens,

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Iceland-Cuts-Electricity-To-Crypto-Miners-Amid-Power-Crunch.html

"Due to low hydropower generation, Iceland has seen a shortage of electricity supply in recent days to the point where its biggest utility curtailed power to some industrial activities, data centers, and cryptocurrency mining.

Iceland generates nearly 100 percent of its electricity from renewable energy sources, with hydropower generation accounting for around 73 percent of power supply and geothermal power representing the other 27 percent of electricity generation.

This week, however, low levels of hydro reservoirs, a fault at one power station, and a delay in obtaining electricity from a third-party provider led to the reduction—effective immediately—of electricity to data centers, aluminum smelters, and fish meal factories, the national power company of Iceland, Landsvirkjun, said in a statement on Tuesday.

Landsvirkjun is also rejecting all requests from new customers for cryptocurrency mining, the company added.

Apart from the low hydro levels and issues at a power plant, record electricity demand in recent weeks has also played a part in the decision to reduce supply to industrial customers and data centers, Tinna Traustadottir, executive vice president of sales and customer service at Landsvirkjun, told Bloomberg.

Crypto mining operations are large in Iceland, where 100 percent of the electricity comes from hydro or geothermal power. A total of 8 percent of all Bitcoins have been mined in Iceland, according to the Icelandic Blockchain Foundation cited by DW.

But the large power consumption of cryptocurrency mining—although it could be considered ‘green’ in Iceland because of the 100-percent renewable electricity supply—is further straining the grid when demand is high and hydro resource levels low, as is the case this week.  

Iceland is not the only country to reduce power for crypto activities. Kazakhstan, for example, has struggled with an energy crunch and has recently started to ration electricity to the country’s biggest consumers, likely targeting cryptocurrency mining operations. "  

Edited December 9, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Eric Gagen + 713]

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

cat is working on a 200 ton class battery autonomous truck right now, they are behind the curve

you are also behind the curve..... I don't think that anyone is realistically suggesting that EV's are ready for commercial use......What are you babbling about?

please note the truck below has a 8 hour run time per charge

World's first 120-ton electric mining dump truck equipped with CATL batteries successfully rolls off production line

6/24/2021

On June 23, the world's first 120-ton electric mining dump truck with AC drive equipped with CATL batteries successfully rolled off the production line at Xiangtan Electric Manufacturing Co. Ltd. (XEMC) and is scheduled to be put into trial operation in mines in July. This product will be used for transportation in open-pit mines as a stellar example of the intelligent electrification era, promoting the mining industry's development towards low-carbon, energy efficient products and environmental protection.

 

Innovative technologies enable excellent performance

The trucks are equipped with CATL's large-capacity, ultra-safe lithium iron phosphate traction batteries, which can meet the demand for high-power charging thanks to high-voltage, fast-charging technology. 

 

Featuring high energy density, the batteries with unique cell-to-pack (CTP) technology can work continuously for eight hours after being fully charged. The smart BMS can monitor the battery's health status 24/7, and accurately predict the charging state. 

 

The smart thermal management system can ensure that the battery can work efficiently between -30℃ and 60℃ to enable electric mining dump trucks to operate under all weather conditions.

 

Safe and reliable

 

Selected raw materials and their sophisticated design supported by multi-level protection, an automatic manufacturing process and comprehensive testing and verification make CATL's traction batteries safe and reliable.

 

Electric mining dump trucks usually work under complex conditions involving a lot of dirt and dust. Therefore, the batteries must meet high requirements in order to remain dustproof and perform well. The traction batteries manufactured by CATL have obtained an IP68 rating, the highest in the industry, which shows they are protected against erosion and dust in a mining environment, enabling them to operate in a stable manner under complex conditions.

 

Cost-effective and environmentally friendly with green power

 

Compared with 100-ton fuel trucks, the 120-ton electric mining dump truck has realized the goal of zero emissions, reducing carbon emissions by 1,500 tons for each vehicle per year. The energy cost is thus reduced by 50% and the overall maintenance cost is reduced by 20%.

 

In addition, the truck makes little noise and is comfortable to operate. In the future, CATL will join forces with more partners to promote a wider application of traction batteries in commercial vehicles and together create the era of intelligent electrification.

 

Well color me impressed.  I didn't know these were in the works.  

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Uses cobalt free LFP batteries. @Ecocharger isn't going to be happy about this.

"The trucks are equipped with CATL's large-capacity, ultra-safe lithium iron phosphate traction batteries, which can meet the demand for high-power charging thanks to high-voltage, fast-charging technology. "

Low performance, sounds like. Cobalt needed for anything high performance.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

5 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Your fixation on what I drive is hilarious. EV sales just keep skyrocketing and so does the value of Tesla stock!

And so does your daily driving of an ICE vehicle, and your refusal to purchase an EV for your own use...that tells us where your wallet choices really are. You obviously have no confidence in EVs for your own use.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

18 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Low performance, sounds like. Cobalt needed for anything high performance.

A high performance mining truck, perhaps you intend on racing one at Indy?

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

3 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

No, there isn't - there are NO rocks - not for a very long distance in any direction - sometimes hundreds of miles. Very disappointing for this guy from California - I dreamed of rocks for quite a few years after getting into this part of the country.  No 'clay chunks' the soil is basically clay based already.  If you are in a place where there are roots big enough to be an issue for vehicles, then you aren't in bad mud - there are roots that break up the slick smooth mud.  Most fields have been cleared long enough ago that they don't  have tree roots.  Honestly, I have never seen bad mud in/at a forest, because the trees themselves stabilize the ground.  I suppose it could happen in a freshly cleared area, where you cut down enough trees to get a vehicle in,  but the roots haven't rotted away yet.  

Never heard of 'sunken timber' in fields and what not.  In swamp/marsh yes, but those aren't passable for land vehicles.  

You don't get up to the foothills of the rockies much, do you. Well, your terrain is different from mine. That much is clear. 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

12 minutes ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

You don't get up to the foothills of the rockies much, do you. Well, your terrain is different from mine. That much is clear. 

Yes.  That’s a different place.  I was very specific on where my assessment was valid - the coastal plain from North Carolina to Texas.  I don’t have enough off-roading experience to assess other areas. I have been to the foothills of the Rockies in Colorado and Wyoming, but it was on road only.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Eric Gagen

[turbguy + 1,391]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The risk of relying on renewable energy sources has caught up with Europe. This is what happens,

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Iceland-Cuts-Electricity-To-Crypto-Miners-Amid-Power-Crunch.html

"Due to low hydropower generation, Iceland has seen a shortage of electricity supply in recent days to the point where its biggest utility curtailed power to some industrial activities, data centers, and cryptocurrency mining.

Iceland generates nearly 100 percent of its electricity from renewable energy sources, with hydropower generation accounting for around 73 percent of power supply and geothermal power representing the other 27 percent of electricity generation.

This week, however, low levels of hydro reservoirs, a fault at one power station, and a delay in obtaining electricity from a third-party provider led to the reduction—effective immediately—of electricity to data centers, aluminum smelters, and fish meal factories, the national power company of Iceland, Landsvirkjun, said in a statement on Tuesday.

Landsvirkjun is also rejecting all requests from new customers for cryptocurrency mining, the company added.

Apart from the low hydro levels and issues at a power plant, record electricity demand in recent weeks has also played a part in the decision to reduce supply to industrial customers and data centers, Tinna Traustadottir, executive vice president of sales and customer service at Landsvirkjun, told Bloomberg.

Crypto mining operations are large in Iceland, where 100 percent of the electricity comes from hydro or geothermal power. A total of 8 percent of all Bitcoins have been mined in Iceland, according to the Icelandic Blockchain Foundation cited by DW.

But the large power consumption of cryptocurrency mining—although it could be considered ‘green’ in Iceland because of the 100-percent renewable electricity supply—is further straining the grid when demand is high and hydro resource levels low, as is the case this week.  

Iceland is not the only country to reduce power for crypto activities. Kazakhstan, for example, has struggled with an energy crunch and has recently started to ration electricity to the country’s biggest consumers, likely targeting cryptocurrency mining operations. "  

It sounds more like the use of electricity to support the "mining" of modern "tulip bulbs" has been recognized by sane Icelanders for what it is...

[notsonice + 1,062]

6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Low performance, sounds like. Cobalt needed for anything high performance.

Low performance???? what are you babbling about. What effects performance on large haul trucks is the inability of the onboard diesel gen set to   power up /lack of power  on steep uphill grades. This is why trolley assist is used at mines on the uphill grades. Battery electrics  do not have power up problems nor are they affected by altitudes.

Edited December 10, 2021 by notsonice

[turbguy + 1,391]

6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Low performance, sounds like. Cobalt needed for anything high performance.

Aren't stellite valve facing/inlays used on high performance engines?

Guess what's in stellite.

Guess what's practically forbidden in Nuc plants.

Edited December 10, 2021 by turbguy

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

12 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

A hundred years ago you would have said "We were discussing the viability of ICE dragging a trailer versus a horse and you confirmed in your comment that all the methods you would recommend were horses."

Jay it was Eric that confirmed all those vehicles he stated were diesel not me, I just asked the question!

Look EV's are coming and fast, I have a hybrid myself. There will be virtually no ICE production of regular cars post 2030 but trucks, diggers, army vehicles will still need to be ICE in my opinion unless there is a massive breakthrough in battery technology.

In 10 years time in the Western world we will be wondering why we didnt go electric sooner.

I'm all for new tech actually, just playing devils advocate.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Jay it was Eric that confirmed all those vehicles he stated were diesel not me, I just asked the question!

Look EV's are coming and fast, I have a hybrid myself. There will be virtually no ICE production of regular cars post 2030 but trucks, diggers, army vehicles will still need to be ICE in my opinion unless there is a massive breakthrough in battery technology.

In 10 years time in the Western world we will be wondering why we didnt go electric sooner.

I'm all for new tech actually, just playing devils advocate.

The US armed forces is one of the groups trying the hardest to eliminate ICE's where necessary, and it has been going on for a long time.  For at least the last 15 years or so the armed forces have been trying to untether themselves from the need for regular fuel deliveries, or grid electricity for their facilities.  It represents a strategic and tactical vulnerability which can now be at least partially overcome.  For stationary bases and facilities the Iraq war (second one starting in 2001) highlighted how big a risk it is to require regular fuel transport to operating facilities.  Even if/when it is not economic for 'normal' facilities the armed forces has moved HARD into solar, battery storage and wind power so that their security and operational tempo will not be quite so tightly connected to regular fuel deliveries.  

On a broader strategic level, the armed forces is preparing for a situation when/if their general access to liquid fuels is curtailed by enemy action or other means.  This has entailed a search for substitute liquid fuels which can be made by other means (mostly biofuels) possibly in some field conditions allowing units to carry the ability to fuel themselves along with them.  

One of the highest risk (in terms of casualties and damage to equipment) operations on an ongoing basis in the Iraq war, was delivery of fuel to forward operating locations.  By reducing fuel demand as much as possible without regard for the monetary cost, they found that they actually saved money because less equipment was getting destroyed delivering fuel (in addition to saving lives) 

If they are successful in this attempt, the US armed forces will effectively restore a level of strategic and tactical mobility that last existed before the invention of the railroad - it would be able to send forces anywhere and everywhere without having to look at fuel infrastructure issue. The only constant needs would be food and munitions, which are a tiny fraction of the regular tonnage demand that fuel currently is.  

There are no current plans to end the use of ICE's in aircraft or heavy ground equipment (tanks heavy artillery, etc.) but to the extent possible everything else is either getting electrified, or is being reviewed for the potential to get electrified.  

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

10 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

The US armed forces is one of the groups trying the hardest to eliminate ICE's where necessary, and it has been going on for a long time.  For at least the last 15 years or so the armed forces have been trying to untether themselves from the need for regular fuel deliveries, or grid electricity for their facilities.  It represents a strategic and tactical vulnerability which can now be at least partially overcome.  For stationary bases and facilities the Iraq war (second one starting in 2001) highlighted how big a risk it is to require regular fuel transport to operating facilities.  Even if/when it is not economic for 'normal' facilities the armed forces has moved HARD into solar, battery storage and wind power so that their security and operational tempo will not be quite so tightly connected to regular fuel deliveries.  

On a broader strategic level, the armed forces is preparing for a situation when/if their general access to liquid fuels is curtailed by enemy action or other means.  This has entailed a search for substitute liquid fuels which can be made by other means (mostly biofuels) possibly in some field conditions allowing units to carry the ability to fuel themselves along with them.  

One of the highest risk (in terms of casualties and damage to equipment) operations on an ongoing basis in the Iraq war, was delivery of fuel to forward operating locations.  By reducing fuel demand as much as possible without regard for the monetary cost, they found that they actually saved money because less equipment was getting destroyed delivering fuel (in addition to saving lives) 

If they are successful in this attempt, the US armed forces will effectively restore a level of strategic and tactical mobility that last existed before the invention of the railroad - it would be able to send forces anywhere and everywhere without having to look at fuel infrastructure issue. The only constant needs would be food and munitions, which are a tiny fraction of the regular tonnage demand that fuel currently is.  

There are no current plans to end the use of ICE's in aircraft or heavy ground equipment (tanks heavy artillery, etc.) but to the extent possible everything else is either getting electrified, or is being reviewed for the potential to get electrified.  

Some valid points and I guess having fuel flexibilty is always a good thing. Solar works just fine for small vehicles in the Middle East but not all countries have the luxury of such weather and therefore solar wont work in those territories. Try fighting a war based on solar powered vehicles in Northern Europe and youd end up dragging those vehicle behind a team of horses after a few miles.

So for tanks, heavy artillery, large trucks, planes, missiles, most warships (apart from nuclear powered) FF still firmly remains the way to go!

[Eric Gagen + 713]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Some valid points and I guess having fuel flexibilty is always a good thing. Solar works just fine for small vehicles in the Middle East but not all countries have the luxury of such weather and therefore solar wont work in those territories. Try fighting a war based on solar powered vehicles in Northern Europe and youd end up dragging those vehicle behind a team of horses after a few miles.

So for tanks, heavy artillery, large trucks, planes, missiles, most warships (apart from nuclear powered) FF still firmly remains the way to go!

The objective is NOT to have solar powered vehicles (i's silly - there is no way to gather enough power on/in a vehicle for solar power to be functional).  It's to have bases which are run primarily on electricity.  That electricity will come from solar and wind, with batteries and diesel generators as backup.  Where possible, electric vehicles (the normal BEV types) will be used, and where not ICE vehicles will be used.  The idea isn't that they will 100% eliminate the need for fuel,  but that they will reduce it's importance as a critical input for operations., creating greater flexibility, and reducing the need/frequency for resupply.

You can put some windmills and solar panels in/on the base and the soldiers can set them up just like the rest of their gear, and have them 'inside the perimeter' of operational security  You can't realistically do that continuously  for every convoy route to and from the base from wherever they have to get stuff from.  Something like 90% of all the 'stuff' the military consumes when it is in the field is fuel, so it's the biggest and most obvious target to tackle if you want to reduce convoy and supply issues.     

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

32 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

The objective is NOT to have solar powered vehicles (i's silly - there is no way to gather enough power on/in a vehicle for solar power to be functional)

Agreed but thats not what I said

 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Agreed but thats not what I said

 

You were referencing solar powered vehicles, so I assumed it was intended to mean directly solar powered.  Electricity is much more flexible because it can come from a variety of sources, and solar is merely one of them.  The economy we w whole has to worry about efficiency and cost, but those are tiny considerations for the military compared to some of their other objectives. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

Now this is quite interesting, on the verge of a Green Revolution one of the principle players walks away....

Tesla's Elon Musk says he is 'thinking of quitting' his jobs

 

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/teslas-musk-says-he-is-thinking-of-quitting-his-jobs-2021-12-10/

Edited December 10, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

True to his form and that would be a bit more subtle....

Bill Gates on why the ‘miracles’ of solar and wind energy won’t save us from climate change—and the breakthroughs that just might.

 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

17 hours ago, notsonice said:

Low performance???? what are you babbling about. What effects performance on large haul trucks is the inability of the onboard diesel gen set to   power up /lack of power  on steep uphill grades. This is why trolley assist is used at mines on the uphill grades. Battery electrics  do not have power up problems nor are they affected by altitudes.

The issue is COBALT, in case you failed to notice, notsoalert. Cobalt is where the problem is for the electric dream future.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Ecocharger