Rob Plant + 2,601 RP January 14, 2022 10 hours ago, Eric Gagen said: huh? how do you figure? Comfort and cache are two of the big selling points for EV's The best thing about an EV is you can defrost it by using your phone (as well as the obvious fuel and tax benefits) That defrost function sure helps when youre running late for work in a morning! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 January 14, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: I disagree when you compare apples with apples Why do you still drive your ICE BMW then? i presume its not a 10 year old nail? I believe you will need $71,296 to convert to a BMW i4 all electric (base on UK price and converted to US$ at today's XR) Looking forward to you posting pics of you in it 😉👍 What are you babbling about? Comparing apples to apples is comparing new cars to new cars. Are you sure you aren't a dumb? Here is what Tesla is doing to BMW ICE in California: https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-3Q-21.pdf Edited January 14, 2022 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,601 RP January 14, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Comparing apples to apples is comparing new cars to new cars Thats total crap you have to compare the same like for like car ie a BMW ICE to a BMW EV. You said they are comparable cost base which they arent! You are again trying to be clever by changing the goal posts. Tesla do not make ICE vehicles so you cannot compare this scenario with Tesla, and dont come back saying Tesla are a competitor of BMW because that wasnt the original point was it! You said EV's were at the same cost base as ICE, they arent currently. I'm not against EV's but to claim they are at comparable costs to ICE is wrong or you yourself would be driving an EV surely???? Still waiting for those lovely pics of you in your new BMW EV (take the hat off though) 😉 Edited January 14, 2022 by Rob Plant 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,601 RP January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Wombat One said: Not in a very green manner Jay, but here is some more ammo for you anyway Exactly why FF will be around for a very long time! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,601 RP January 14, 2022 Record High Lithium Prices Threaten The EV Boom https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Record-High-Lithium-Prices-Threaten-The-EV-Boom.html 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,374 DL January 14, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: It's number of vehicles x quantity of kilowatt hours for each subtracted from available electricity in the middle of the night. Simple. I guess it takes an economist to figure such things out. The experts are not in agreement with you. The grids in most areas are not up to the challenge of universal EV draw. Edited January 14, 2022 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,374 DL January 14, 2022 (edited) The result of the Green climate panic in politics is to push up oil and fossil fuel prices which constitute 85% of available energy supplies, and drastically reduce the standard of living of poor Americans. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Could-Oil-Really-Reach-200.html "Oil is about to post its fourth week of gains in a row, and the outlook remains bullish thanks to supply constraints and demand strength. But one hedge fund manager is even more bullish than that. Doug King, head of the Merchant Commodity Fund, enjoyed record returns last year, gaining 74 percent in 2021 and beating its previous record of 59 percent set in 2014—another boom year for oil right before the bust. But now, King is expecting further gains in the price of oil, saying it could even reach $200 per barrel over the next five years. “We believe in structural supply-side commodity inflation that most will not have ever seen -- the highest since the 1970s,” King told Bloomberg in an interview, adding, “Only OPEC will react to price metrics and they are undershooting every month.” OPEC and its OPEC+ partners have been struggling to produce as much as it has agreed to under its production control agreement that came in response to the devastation that the pandemic wrought on the oil market in 2020. Only a few members of the extended cartel have the capacity to boost production in line with quotas while the rest are finding it hard, prompting worry about future oil supply in a strong demand situation. “In practice, a lot less oil is making its way to the market,” the Merchant Commodity Fund wrote in its investor letter, as quoted by Bloomberg. “Its members are simply unable to return to pre-covid levels of output. This is all down to a lack of investment.”" Edited January 14, 2022 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,374 DL January 14, 2022 7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: What are you babbling about? Comparing apples to apples is comparing new cars to new cars. Are you sure you aren't a dumb? Here is what Tesla is doing to BMW ICE in California: https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-3Q-21.pdf With huge government intervention into the marketplace. This is not an optimal social equilibrium. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,374 DL January 14, 2022 (edited) The wild Green panic driving misguided government policy has resulted in huge upward pressure on oil prices. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Chinas-Attempt-To-Kill-The-Oil-Rally-Is-Bound-To-Fail.html "It may seem somewhat counterintuitive for the oil market to shake off news regarding a potential Chinese SPR release, but that is exactly what has happened this week. With the mood still firmly bullish on the back of a weakening dollar, Libyan supply issues, and lower-than-expected OPEC+ output, the oil price rally was driven higher by reports of product inventories hitting multi-year lows. With refiners still wary about ramping up operations to full capacity, middle distillate stocks have become so scarce that backward action in the prompt month for both diesel and jet fuel rose to its highest level since September 2019. With stocks unlikely to see a swift replenishment, the global case for oil prices seems to be very bullish. As of Friday, the global benchmark Brent traded around $85 per barrel, whilst WTI was nearing the $83 per barrel mark. " Edited January 14, 2022 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 January 15, 2022 (edited) On 1/14/2022 at 1:44 AM, Rob Plant said: Thats total crap you have to compare the same like for like car ie a BMW ICE to a BMW EV. You said they are comparable cost base which they arent! You are again trying to be clever by changing the goal posts. Tesla do not make ICE vehicles so you cannot compare this scenario with Tesla, and dont come back saying Tesla are a competitor of BMW because that wasnt the original point was it! You said EV's were at the same cost base as ICE, they arent currently. I'm not against EV's but to claim they are at comparable costs to ICE is wrong or you yourself would be driving an EV surely???? Still waiting for those lovely pics of you in your new BMW EV (take the hat off though) 😉 That is asinine! A proper competitive product comparison is done by looking at the competition. When you look at one company's line up you are seeing how they want to rank their products for profit maximization, such as not cannibalising their other products. They don't want their products to compete with each other. It is irrelevant that Tesla does not make ICE. You're the one who keeps moving the goal posts and claiming I said things I never did. The original claim was "EVs will never be cost-competitive with ICE for equivalent levels of comfort and cache." I will stress the "competitive" part of the claim. I only ever said they were cost-competitive. Tesla EVs and BMW ICE are cost competitive in the same market segment and in California consumers are choosing Tesla over BMW by a ratio of 4 to 1. It is hard to get much more cost-competitive than that. Consumers see the value in the EV as being worth more than the difference in initial price, The EV has lower operating costs, many extras as standard and of course far more comfort and cachet. Edited January 16, 2022 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 January 15, 2022 13 hours ago, Wombat One said: Not in a very green manner Jay, but here is some more ammo for you anyway A lot greener than oil and getting greener every day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 January 15, 2022 8 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The experts are not in agreement with you. The grids in most areas are not up to the challenge of universal EV draw. They aren't experts, just people paid to write fake news that gullible people like you swallow because you can't do the calculations for yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 January 15, 2022 18 hours ago, Rob Plant said: If you live in a cold region then your range will be even more compromised. You are wrong about range anxiety, it is a big thing for most people in England and England is tiny compared to many states in the US . Yes 90% of the time you may be commuting and it works just fine, what about the other 10% ie when you go on vacation or you have a business meeting or you see family from farther away? This is what really puts people off. Hybrids no problem I'm with you on that but a 200 mile range doesnt cut it for most. Californians are famous for driving long distances on a whim and no one here talks about range anxiety. There are plenty of dc chargers for that 10% and as the EV market grows so do the number of chargers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 January 15, 2022 17 hours ago, Wombat One said: Ron, I thought this might warm the cockles of your heart: Manchin Wants Nuclear Tax Credit Extended In Biden’s Build Back Better Bill | OilPrice.com Amazing! The Democrats actually have one rational, moderate politician left. Hope for you yet The green new deal has forced me to go for "all of the above". Let the greenies have plenty of time to do their best. I really don't know if nuclear can possibly meet the need in a timely manner though. Methane hydrates and all natural gas sources should be used. That includes coal seam and coal solids. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 January 15, 2022 18 hours ago, Wombat One said: Ron, I thought this might warm the cockles of your heart: Manchin Wants Nuclear Tax Credit Extended In Biden’s Build Back Better Bill | OilPrice.com Amazing! The Democrats actually have one rational, moderate politician left. Hope for you yet Don't forget Kristen Sinema, she deserves almost as much credit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 January 15, 2022 https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/19-Year-Old-Hacks-into-25-Teslas-Simultaneously.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkam44 + 26 January 15, 2022 Being a former engineer for a large power company and having earned a Master of Science in Energy and the Environment, I had PV panels installed six years ago, with my estimated payback of 15-17 years, . . the right thing for an eco-freak to do. Before they could be installed, we acquired a VW e-Golf electric car. The savings in gasoline alone took the solar system payback down to 3 1/2 years. So, we added a used Tesla Model S, P85, and that took the payback down to less than three years, which means we now get free power for household and transportation. But that is not all: We do not need to go to gas stations, we fuel up at home at night with cheap baseload power. During the daytime, the PV system turns our meter backwards powering the neighborhood with clean local power, which we trade for the stuff to be used that night. If we paid for transportation fuel, the VW would cost us 4 cents/mile to drive, and the Tesla would cost 5 cents/mile at California off-peak power prices. No oil changes are a real treat along with no leaks. And since it has an electric motor, it needs NO ENGINE MAINTENANCE at all. We do not go "gas up", or get tune-ups or emissions checks, have no transmission about which to worry, no complicated machined parts needing care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eric Gagen + 713 January 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, gkam44 said: Being a former engineer for a large power company and having earned a Master of Science in Energy and the Environment, I had PV panels installed six years ago, with my estimated payback of 15-17 years, . . the right thing for an eco-freak to do. Before they could be installed, we acquired a VW e-Golf electric car. The savings in gasoline alone took the solar system payback down to 3 1/2 years. So, we added a used Tesla Model S, P85, and that took the payback down to less than three years, which means we now get free power for household and transportation. But that is not all: We do not need to go to gas stations, we fuel up at home at night with cheap baseload power. During the daytime, the PV system turns our meter backwards powering the neighborhood with clean local power, which we trade for the stuff to be used that night. If we paid for transportation fuel, the VW would cost us 4 cents/mile to drive, and the Tesla would cost 5 cents/mile at California off-peak power prices. No oil changes are a real treat along with no leaks. And since it has an electric motor, it needs NO ENGINE MAINTENANCE at all. We do not go "gas up", or get tune-ups or emissions checks, have no transmission about which to worry, no complicated machined parts needing care. I have in mind a similar plan, using PV panels, batteries and an F150 lightning. In 2008 when my wife and I built a house, the economics on solar didn't work, but now they do, and we will implement that plan in the next few years when we move and build another house. Even at the relatively low electric power costs that we have in Texas, the cost savings are too big to pass up, and the added luxury of being more or less 'off grid' for power is an additional bonus. We will still have natural gas for heating, stove and water heating though - that is too cheap and efficient to pass up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 439 January 15, 2022 (edited) On 1/13/2022 at 3:12 PM, Jay McKinsey said: How dense can you get? The base is their previous year's sales. From 2020 to 2021 Tesla sales increased by 80%. On 1/14/2022 at 5:35 PM, Jay McKinsey said: What are you babbling about? Comparing apples to apples is comparing new cars to new cars. Are you sure you aren't a dumb? Here is what Tesla is doing to BMW ICE in California: https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-3Q-21.pdf 1. after the post on page 150, where tesla had delivered more than it produced, 80% increment might need more data verification. e.g. if one car was sold in 2019, and then 5 cars in 2020, it gives a figure of 80%, no? 2. Does the registration provided include sponsored cars to police departments and soldiers? On 1/14/2022 at 2:54 PM, Ecocharger said: No, it just means that current EV adoption projections are at least two years optimistic and two years from now or less we will see if another postponement is necessary, which it will be. By that time, the climate panic will be a thing of history. There was an outstanding article in "Meditation and Health, issue 23rd, pg 57-62: a spiritual and ecological crisis"......... It highlighted reasons for the fall of great civilization e.g.Mayan, Loulan and the Atlantis, which might be related to our condition today. In Maya civilization, over development and drastic increment of population caused shortage in food. To overcome this problem, massive areas of forest were cut, resting period in cultivation was shorten to increase productivity. Fertile soil was widely exposed and washed off by rain at ease. Productivity reduced. Bad cycle repeated to a point where famine occurred and they had to abandon the cities or wiped out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization#Postclassic_period_(c._950–1539_AD) Are we not repeating what they had done? Climate panic is there for a reason. It might not go away until problems are identified and solved.......... Or they will keep repeating until irrevocable/ irreparable damage is done. Electric vehicles could be good initiative. However, reliance on grid, which is powered by fossil fuel, nuclear and hydropower, might create a cycle of foreseeable problems... Although there might be not just one type of charging, be it home based solar panel or grid reliance, or running an EV. For examples, Solar cars are getting matured, hydrogen vehicles are running on the roads, mechanical cars without the need of battery or fuel could be realized not far from now, EVTOLs are licensed, etc................. A progressive stunt should be adopted, compared to a hastily imposed deed, no? . Edited January 15, 2022 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,315 RG January 15, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 5:39 AM, Wombat One said: Ron, I thought this might warm the cockles of your heart: Manchin Wants Nuclear Tax Credit Extended In Biden’s Build Back Better Bill | OilPrice.com Amazing! The Democrats actually have one rational, moderate politician left. Hope for you yet The last tax credit for nuclear is still being built in GA? Like 10 billion over budget and 10 years late? Not done yet. Lol Check the numbers, been a couple of years since I looked. But this is GA Republicans so you know it’s a mess. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,315 RG January 15, 2022 https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/2021/11/04/georgia-power-nuclear-reactors-plant-vogtle-cost-doubles-energy-costs/6286729001/ Read all about it. This is what happens when you combine energy production with Republicans. I mean there are different problems. Texas recently killed 57? Managing a winter storm. But hope springs eternal. Republican Buffett and Gates have a new nuke? Did those guys get recruited? Or did Obama mess with their heads killing pipelines and giving Buffet the rail cars. I bet there was a Russian in the mix somehow. Lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,063 DM January 15, 2022 275 mile range ...made for short hauling ....regional distribution.......In production this year...all from improved batteries Volvo Trucks introduces second-generation VNR Electric with bigger battery, added range, and new configurations Scooter Doll - Jan. 14th 2022 3:23 pm PT 72 Comments Facebook Twitter Pinterest LinkedIn Reddit Volvo Trucks Corporation has announced the next generation of its all-electric, Class 8 VNR trucks for the North American market, including upgrades to battery size, range, and charging speeds. Furthermore, Volvo Trucks has introduced two additional configurations for its commercial fleets customers to choose from. Volvo Group (AB Volvo) is a multinational corporation whose subsidiary Volvo Trucks has manufactured a tremendous amount of the world’s heavy-duty trucks. Previously, the Swedish automaker has teamed up with companies like DHL to produce electric heavy-duty trucks and collaborated with self-driving tech companies like Aurora to develop autonomous transport solutions. After beginning to sell all-electric trucks in Europe toward the end of 2019, Volvo Trucks set its sights on North America, introducing its VNR Class 8 BEV. This process began in California in early 2020 with a heavy duty EV program centered around the VNR Electric truck . By the end of 2020, Volvo Trucks had opened up its sales books to commercial customers ahead of production that began in Q2 of last year. Volvo’s flagship VNR Electric truck arrived with a 264 kWh battery and the ability to charge to 80% in under 70 minutes using a sufficient DCFC. The 2021 VNR Electric delivered an operating range of up to 150 miles based on truck configuration. Speaking of which, it originally came in three configurations – a single-axle box truck with 33,200 lbs. GVW and two tractor configurations consisting of a 4×2 option with 66,000 lbs. and a 6×2 version with 82,000 lbs. GCW. With the announcement of a new and improved VNR Electric on the way, Volvo Trucks is introducing two additional variations with added range. All five configurations of the new VNR Electric / Source: Volvo Trucks Volvo Trucks’ second-generation VNR Electric delivers up to 275 mile range Volvo Trucks announced changes to its next generation of VNR Electrics through a press release detailing the upgrades commercial customers can expect to see in 2022. Many of these upgrades stem from Volvo’s improved battery technology. Developments in design have helped Volvo Trucks achieve up to 40% increases in storage capacity for each battery. Furthermore, the Swedish automaker has added a dedicated Battery Thermal Management System (BTMS) to manage and maintain ideal temperatures to ensure best performance. With the newest VNR Electric, Volvo Trucks has also introduced a six-battery package option. The company states that the combination of all three can deliver an increased energy storage of up to 565 kWh, over 300 kWh more than the previous VNR Electric model. The result is an operational range of up to 275 miles, 125 miles more than its predecessor. Customers of the new and improved VNR Electric will also see reductions in charging times, as the Volvo truck’s 250 kW charging capability can charge to 80% in 90 minutes for the six-battery package, and 60 minutes for the four-battery option. Peter Voorhoeve, president, Volvo Trucks North America, spoke to the company’s latest electric offering: It is a testament to Volvo Trucks’ leadership that in a continuously evolving industry we are bringing the enhanced version of our VNR Electric to the market a year after sales of the VNR Electric first started. Volvo Trucks is at the forefront in the industry, always innovating and improving, while upholding the highest standards in design, construction and safety. Our team is proud of its role, together with dealers and customers, in accelerating the shift to electromobility and a more sustainable future. As previously mentioned, the new VNR Electric is now available in two additional configurations – a 6×4 straight truck and a 6×4 tractor (the bottom two configurations in the image above). The former promises 54,000 lbs. GVW, while the latter will offer 88,200 lbs. GCW. The next generation VNE Electric trucks are available for order now and will begin production in Q2 of this year at Volvo Truck’s manufacturing facility in Dublin, Virginia. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 January 16, 2022 https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/12/23/not-like-that-greta-thunberg-decries-inclusion-of-nuclear-gas-in-eu-green-playbook/ Not Like That! Greta Thunberg Decries Inclusion of Nuclear, Gas in EU Green Playbook 12,162 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 January 16, 2022 (edited) On 1/13/2022 at 12:53 AM, Ecocharger said: Weightings should be by volume of sales, to give a more accurate picture of actual market share. Producing a vehicle for a niche market is less of an achievement, involving many fewer satisfied customers. We are seriously considering selling our 12 seat Nissan NV 3500 and getting a Maverick PHEV? fully loaded ( Because my wife says so.) 😊 We really never ended up doing heavy towing or hauling a lot of people but really enjoyed it. It is bothering her knees to get in and out of it and burns a lot of gas. https://shop.ford.com/configure/maverick/config/exterior/Config[|Ford|Maverick|2022|1|1.|...PKU...21K.54L.86B.FWD.993.XLT.]?gnav=header-suvs-vhp Ford Maverick Hybrid Explained https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woBvHw4VYGE Edited January 16, 2022 by ronwagn reference Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,374 DL January 16, 2022 23 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: That is asinine! A proper competitive product comparison is done by looking at the competition. When you look at one companies line up you are seeing how they want to rank their products for profit maximization, such as not cannibalising their other products. They don't want their products to compete with each other. It is irrelevant that Tesla does not make ICE. You're the one who keeps moving the goal posts and claiming I said things I never did. The original claim was "EVs will never be cost-competitive with ICE for equivalent levels of comfort and cache." I will stress the "competitive" part of the claim. I only ever said they were cost-competitive. Tesla EVs and BMW ICE are cost competitive in the same market segment and in California consumers are choosing Tesla over BMW by a ratio of 4 to 1. It is hard to get much more cost-competitive than that. Jay, you have already voted with your own wallet for the ICE over the EV...that tells us all that we need to know. 2 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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