GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_electrification_in_the_United_States Overhead electrical train power. 

I am fascinated by the many large sparks put off (seen at night)  by the commuter rail in Los Angeles. 

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

The Uncomfortable Truth About Green Hydrogen

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Uncomfortable-Truth-About-Green-Hydrogen.html

This would suggest @Ecocharger was right about spiralling costs rather than cost reductions in the energy transiotion.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Rob Plant

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

On 1/31/2022 at 5:04 PM, Boat said:

It seems weird to think about insulation in 2022. In 1980 I put in insulation in the attic. In around 1983 I had holes drilled and used blown in insulation for the walls. I was a young man in my 20’s and paid for it myself working in a factory. Is Europe really that dumb and dependent on the government? Today the insulation of choice for tight home is foam. No government needed. Try work.

Wooden houses are mostly unique to USA. In most other countries, wooden house implies small hut and hatchment for poor people. 

On 2/1/2022 at 3:45 PM, Rob Plant said:

In the UK pretty much all new build housing (which there is a lot of) has cavity wall and loft insulation, if not there is a government grant for this if required.

Soon you wont be able to replace your gas boiler with a like for like replacement, you will have to buy an air source heat pump, or if you have room a ground source heat pump. All part of the green revolution but actually not a bad idea.

You are correct that older housing often cannot have cavity wall insulation as there isnt a cavity as the walls are solid rock/brick. The other reason may be that the properties are "listed buildings" which means they are protected against alterations.

Why would anyone make cavity walls unless it is some kind of corporate spending? I don't think any home owner would like to spend huge sums of money to build two brick walls instead of one wall. Moreover, that is a huge liability as small insects and animals can use then as nesting places. This will be particularly bad in case of termite, ant, honeybee nesting. By the time you realise that there is a next of these insects it would have already expanded to cover most of the insides of the wall, inundating wardrobes, curtains, bookshelves causing huge damage.

The best way to insulate a home is to make it out of bricks and then plaster it on both sides with cement layer so that the cracks are filled

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

46 minutes ago, kshithij Sharma said:

Wooden houses are mostly unique to USA. In most other countries, wooden house implies small hut and hatchment for poor people. 

Why would anyone make cavity walls unless it is some kind of corporate spending? I don't think any home owner would like to spend huge sums of money to build two brick walls instead of one wall. Moreover, that is a huge liability as small insects and animals can use then as nesting places. This will be particularly bad in case of termite, ant, honeybee nesting. By the time you realise that there is a next of these insects it would have already expanded to cover most of the insides of the wall, inundating wardrobes, curtains, bookshelves causing huge damage.

The best way to insulate a home is to make it out of bricks and then plaster it on both sides with cement layer so that the cracks are filled

probably becuase their main aim is to stop damp in houses.

In hot climates this isnt a problem but if you live in the UK or any damp cool climate you would definitely need cavity walls!

Your suggestion would lead to damp and mold within months.

https://www.londondampcompany.co.uk/the-cavity-wall-a-brief-history/

[Boat + 1,315]

On 1/31/2022 at 1:59 PM, Ecocharger said:

Here is where the misguided Green energy policies are leading us...to an expensive world with reduced standards of living. This type of economic strangulation completely eluded the intelligence of the current Biden & Co. advisors, who must have skipped their economics classes at whatever liberal university they attended.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/90-Oil-Is-Only-The-Beginning.html

""The oil market is heading for simultaneously low inventories, low spare capacity and still low investment," Morgan Stanley analysts wrote in a note cited by the Wall Street Journal this week, summing up the situation quite nicely. In this situation, $90 for a barrel of Brent may be just the beginning.

Indeed, the Wall Street consensus seems to be that Brent will reach $100 by the summer because of all the reasons listed by Morgan Stanley and also because breakeven costs are also on the rise, thanks to inflation trends and labor shortages, at least in the United States. Yet the biggest driver of prices will remain physical demand.

The International Energy Agency admitted physical oil demand has proven stronger than previously expected in its latest Oil Market Report. Based on this surprising turn of events, the IEA revised up its 2022 oil demand forecast by 200,000 bpd. And based on its track record, it might well turn out it has once again underestimated demand robustness. Even with this estimate, oil demand will not only return to pre-pandemic levels but exceed them, reaching 99.7 million bpd by the end of the year.

In such a situation, higher prices for oil are all but certain since there is precious little—bar another round of lockdowns which is highly unlikely—anyone can do about them. The question, then, becomes how high oil can go before it begins to go down?

The answer is tricky. U.S. public oil companies are still beholden to their shareholders, who seem to be taking to heart forecasts that oil has no long-term future. They have limited space for doing what they want. Private companies will be drilling as WTI continues climbing higher. And OPEC will be drilling as well, but it may choose to keep controls on production rather than switching to "pump at will," mostly because only a few OPEC members actually have the capacity to pump at will.

Excessively high prices tend to discourage consumption, regardless of the commodity whose prices are getting excessively high. However, there is a caveat, and it is that the commodity must have a viable alternative to discourage consumption when prices rise too high. Judging from Europe's nightmare autumn and winter this year, alternatives to fossil fuels are not yet up to par. This basically means that the impact of high oil prices on demand will be slow to manifest and slow to push prices down."

So nuclear is as green as it gets yet Germany took out 17 nuclear power plants that were paid for and producing. Typical spam and misinformation does not talk about that. Like Australia dosent talk about the massive exports making a few oligarchs richer while nat gas is high for normal citizens. Like the US exports the hell out of nat gas while flaring away and prices of that gas are going up. Those oligarchs still run the world, yes that includes Republicans and Dems bought oligarchs. So tell me some more about how the greens are driving up prices. Lol Idiots. 
Biden wants to toughen up on coal while sending our nat gas to foreign lands. The ol’ Australian playbook. He says pay attention to climate change but let’s flare ourselves out of harms way. I worry about you humans. Hey I got a money making proposition for you. Sell freedom files baked in patriot cake to bust Trump out of jail for trying to coup a 256 year old institution formed after an Authoritarian king. I have yet to hear one politician talk any kind of common sense in over 60 years. Screw energy, let’s build at least 10 more casinos per state and let Trump run EM. Lol. Putin will provide the nat gas if you let him. 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

2 hours ago, kshithij Sharma said:

Wooden houses are mostly unique to USA. In most other countries, wooden house implies small hut and hatchment for poor people. 

Why would anyone make cavity walls unless it is some kind of corporate spending? I don't think any home owner would like to spend huge sums of money to build two brick walls instead of one wall. Moreover, that is a huge liability as small insects and animals can use then as nesting places. This will be particularly bad in case of termite, ant, honeybee nesting. By the time you realise that there is a next of these insects it would have already expanded to cover most of the insides of the wall, inundating wardrobes, curtains, bookshelves causing huge damage.

The best way to insulate a home is to make it out of bricks and then plaster it on both sides with cement layer so that the cracks are filled

 

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

probably becuase their main aim is to stop damp in houses.

In hot climates this isnt a problem but if you live in the UK or any damp cool climate you would definitely need cavity walls!

Your suggestion would lead to damp and mold within months.

https://www.londondampcompany.co.uk/the-cavity-wall-a-brief-history/

Here in the US, we use cavity walls for individual residences, and for commercial construction.  Wood is usually used for the structure of residential buildings, and steel for commercial ones.  Structural brick is almost non existant here except for very old buildings, for the following reasons.

The use of 'solid' bricks with cement and plaster is an extremely bad one in multiple parts of the United States, but for different reasons.

In the west coast, it is not merely a bad idea, but illegal, because this type of construction falls down in earthquakes (even small ones) This covers ~ 20% of the country, and 30% of the population. You don't need to use cavity walls to resolve this problem, but once you frame the structure out of wood, or steel (both of which withstand earthquakes well), you get a cavity 'for free' as a side effect.

In the Southeast, this creates severe problems with moisture in areas where air conditioning is in regular usage - the gap between the inner and outer walls is critical for preventing the buildup of condensation caused by the differential between the warm moist air on the outside, and the cool dry air on the inside (the opposite problem that @Rob Plant describes taking place in the United Kingdom.  This region covers ~ 35% of the country, and about 30% of the population.  If you are going to use modern air conditioning equipment you have to have cavity walls.

In the Northeast, and the upper midwest, the conditions are as Rob describes - cool and damp outside, with a considerable need for heating on the inside.  This region covers ~ 20% of the country and about 25% of the population. If you are going to use modern heating equipment you have to have cavity walls.  

In the midwest there are different seasons where heating AND air conditioning are both in heavy use, and the climate is either cool and damp or hot and damp depending on season. You can have dampness problems of both types at different times of the year.

Add it all up, and solid masonry wall construction is a bad idea for nearly the entire united states, unless you make sure that the building is so drafty that the HVAC system cannot develop any major difference in humidity between the inside and outside of the structure.

Now the real problem: solid masonry wall construction is in fact actually a very poor insulator.  It is good for ensuring that there are no cracks or holes, but the insulation standards, and construction techniques common to the US already assume that there are no cracks, holes or seams for direct air movement.  The insulation value of a material is it's "R value" which is a number.  Higher numbers are better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

  The definition is

watts of energy lost/square meter = 1/R.

Common measurements are for a layer 2.5 cm thick (and then multiplied depending on the total thickness of the material)

For common construction materials you have the following values, 

Wood framing material = 0.12

Wood sheathing = 0.44

Bricks = 0.030

Cement = 0.014

Steel = 0.00

Drywall 0.15

However for common insulation materials you have the following values (averaged)

Fiberglass = 0.75

foil faced insulation panels = 1.0 (or slightly better)

Rock wool = 0.50

Here is what we come up with:  For a solid wall with 2.5 cm of drywall followed by  25 cm  of solid brick the value is 0.15 (drywall) = 10 x 0.030 (the brick)

Solid brick wall R value of 0.45 

For a typical US residential construction wall with a total thickness of 22.5 cm you have 2.5 cm of drywall followed by 5 cm of fiberglass, followed by 2.5 cm of fail faced insulation panel, followed by 2.5 cm of wood sheathing, followed by 7.5 cm of brick.  The R value for this is 0.15 (drywall) + 0.75 x 2 (fiberglass) + 1.0 (foil panel) + 0.44 (wood sheathing) + 0.030 x 3 (brick)

Typical US construction R value of 3.18

This is 7 times better than the brick wall, and this is sort of a 'minimum'.  In cold areas of the US, and in Canada, they usually make the exterior walls a little bit thicker (usually an extra 5-10 cm) and fill it with even more insulation, often of a higher standard than I have listed here.

 

[notsonice + 1,067]

21 hours ago, ronwagn said:

That is nice and will be fine when there is plenty of electricity. Right now, I doubt that is the case. Rather it will worsen the problem if too many are out there too soon. Natural gas locomotives make more sense to me. 

There is an electricity shortage in the US? maybe in Texas when it freezes. Right now there is excess capacity every night ...been that way for the last 100 years.....Natural Gas Locos???? what are you smoking??? Locos already are powered by electric drive traction motors.... Batteries store electricity ....Think about it??? and Locomotives haul 10,000 tons of freight plus the weight of the cars.....An extra 2 or 3 cars full of batteries is not going to impact the locomotives at all.....

[notsonice + 1,067]

2 hours ago, Boat said:

So nuclear is as green as it gets yet Germany took out 17 nuclear power plants that were paid for and producing. Typical spam and misinformation does not talk about that. Like Australia dosent talk about the massive exports making a few oligarchs richer while nat gas is high for normal citizens. Like the US exports the hell out of nat gas while flaring away and prices of that gas are going up. Those oligarchs still run the world, yes that includes Republicans and Dems bought oligarchs. So tell me some more about how the greens are driving up prices. Lol Idiots. 
Biden wants to toughen up on coal while sending our nat gas to foreign lands. The ol’ Australian playbook. He says pay attention to climate change but let’s flare ourselves out of harms way. I worry about you humans. Hey I got a money making proposition for you. Sell freedom files baked in patriot cake to bust Trump out of jail for trying to coup a 256 year old institution formed after an Authoritarian king. I have yet to hear one politician talk any kind of common sense in over 60 years. Screw energy, let’s build at least 10 more casinos per state and let Trump run EM. Lol. Putin will provide the nat gas if you let him. 

Screw energy, let’s build at least 10 more casinos per state and let Trump run EM???? Trump and a Casino......doomed from the start. 

[notsonice + 1,067]

20 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

If you look at the Union Pacific plan,  they intend to use the electric locomotives in switch yards.  Locos under those conditions spend a lot of time idling, moving small/light loads, and speeding up and slowing down - basically conditions under which a diesel locomotive isn't as efficient.  The electric locos would probably 'do their runs' then at the end of their shift, and then pull into a charging stall.  Outside of built up urban areas, most railyards have a lot of space around them,  so if they wanted to,  I would hazard to guess that UP could charge them up with solar power if desired.  I think however that they intend to use these electric switchers in the most heavily urban yards, where the mitigation of noise and diesel soot would probably pay for themselves in good relations with their neighbors. 

the UP battery locos are destined for North Platte.....UPs maintenance/switching  yards...Heavily Urban North Platte??????? Last time I was in North Platte the rail yard looked like there was no urban area around it....Lots of space at the North Platte yards and for both directions miles and miles and miles for both solar and wind ....400 foot wide right away on the main line. North Platte is all UP.......its main employer....no one moans about what happens in the yards

[notsonice + 1,067]

14 hours ago, ronwagn said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_electrification_in_the_United_States Overhead electrical train power. 

I am fascinated by the many large sparks put off (seen at night)  by the commuter rail in Los Angeles. 

Yep Overhead lines can be used to charge battery locos on the run........or on sidings.......You do realize trains stop every 8 hours on sidings to change crews/fuel up....plenty of time to charge up off an overhead line.......no need to have to wait for the diesel trucks to show up.....or nat gas....... In my neck of the woods we have a major rail siding that the trains are stacked up all the time waiting for the semis loaded with diesel to show up..... and to change crews.. They love to block the crossings for hours at a time. By law they can block traffic

Edited February 2, 2022 by notsonice

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

14 minutes ago, notsonice said:

There is an electricity shortage in the US? maybe in Texas when it freezes. Right now there is excess capacity every night ...been that way for the last 100 years.....Natural Gas Locos???? what are you smoking??? Locos already are powered by electric drive traction motors.... Batteries store electricity ....Think about it??? and Locomotives haul 10,000 tons of freight plus the weight of the cars.....An extra 2 or 3 cars full of batteries is not going to impact the locomotives at all.....

 

6 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Yep Overhead lines can be used to charge battery locos on the run........or on sidings.......You do realize trains stop every 8 hours on sidings to change crews/fuel up....plenty of time to charge up off an overhead line.......no need to have to wait for the diesel trucks to show up.....or nat gas....... In my neck of the woods we have a major rail siding that the trains are stacked up all the time waiting for the semis loaded with diesel to show up..... and to change crews.. They love to block the crossings for hours at a time. By law they can block traffic

Electric trains are way better than diesel trains as electric energy generated in large plants is much more efficient than diesel generated energy on trains. Gas trains don't produce enough torque to pull trains. But your idea of battery operated trains is outrageous. The battery charging time makes it absurd.

Trains don't stop for 8 hours just like that. They generally travel for an entire day or two before halting. Crew change, refueling and pumping water only takes 30 minutes to an hour and doesn't need long duration halts. So, there is no time for charging batteries at all. Also, batteries need replacement every 4-5 years which make them ridiculously expensive and unsustainable. There is also risk of fire when large quantity of hot lithium batteries are stacked in a carriage which has the potential of gutting an entire train.

Most trains nowadays run on electricity directly from electric wires suspended above train tracks. But trains also have backup diesel engines for emergencies for cases where electric lines may have been damaged or for travelling in remote places where the tracks have not been electrified yet. There is no need to have unnecessary batteries. Having 2-3 carriages of batteries is a massive wastage and impractical.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

2 hours ago, notsonice said:

the UP battery locos are destined for North Platte.....UPs maintenance/switching  yards...Heavily Urban North Platte??????? Last time I was in North Platte the rail yard looked like there was no urban area around it....Lots of space at the North Platte yards and for both directions miles and miles and miles for both solar and wind ....400 foot wide right away on the main line. North Platte is all UP.......its main employer....no one moans about what happens in the yards

I didn't catch that particular detail in the article.  I thought it was for switching yards in general, not a specific switch yard.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Eric Gagen

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:32 AM, Boat said:

But the EPA can pressure the nation’s dirtiest coal plants to shut down through other means, and the administration is beginning to exercise its leverage.
“Regulations to require power producers to bear the costs of their own pollution are decades overdue,” said Thom Cmar, an attorney with the law firm AltmanNewman who represents environmental groups.

“Sound science makes it clear that we need to limit mercury and toxins in the air to protect children and vulnerable communities from dangerous pollution,” EPA Administrator Michael Regan said in a statement.

In my opinion the US should start with imported pollution. Sell it all to Europe. Maybe they can’t insulate but if it gets cold they will figure out how to burn it. 

Coal will become the go-to energy source now that natural gas prices are escalating world-wide.

Frigid temperatures are exposing the nonsensical climate theories which have fueled the anti-fossil fuel hysteria.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/US-Natural-Gas-Prices-Jump-10-On-Arctic-Blast.html

"A cold blast sent U.S. natural gas prices soaring early on Wednesday.

Natural gas prices are surging as demand is expected to be high and very high through the weekend.

Ahead of this week’s expected winter storm, some analysts are concerned that natural gas production in parts of the Permian could be affected by the freeze."

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Ecocharger

[notsonice + 1,067]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Coal will become the go-to energy source now that natural gas prices are escalating world-wide.

Frigid temperatures are exposing the nonsensical climate theories which have fueled the anti-fossil fuel hysteria.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/US-Natural-Gas-Prices-Jump-10-On-Arctic-Blast.html

 

Coal will become the go-to energy source now that natural gas prices are escalating world-wide???? You should put your money where your mouth is an buy a coal mine.......You will be richhhhhher than Elon Musk. Reality check , you are not paying attention the fact that coal is not the go to energy source...it is the source of last resort. By the way have you seen many coal powered locomotives running regular service these days....I hear they are all the rage in North Korea.

[notsonice + 1,067]

17 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Natural gas switchers have been used for several years also. 

https://www.railwayage.com/mechanical/locomotives/optifuel-producing-natural-gas-switchers/

Great idea ...20 years ago...maybe... They have not sold any to date...and I would not expect them to as they do not have regenerative braking as the battery locomotives do.

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

4 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Coal will become the go-to energy source now that natural gas prices are escalating world-wide???? You should put your money where your mouth is an buy a coal mine.......You will be richhhhhher than Elon Musk. Reality check , you are not paying attention the fact that coal is not the go to energy source...it is the source of last resort. By the way have you seen many coal powered locomotives running regular service these days....I hear they are all the rage in North Korea.

Coal is being upgraded as a source of energy in China and India, worldwide coal production is now at an all-time high. 

That sounds pretty healthy to me.

[notsonice + 1,067]

2 hours ago, kshithij Sharma said:

 

Electric trains are way better than diesel trains as electric energy generated in large plants is much more efficient than diesel generated energy on trains. Gas trains don't produce enough torque to pull trains. But your idea of battery operated trains is outrageous. The battery charging time makes it absurd.

Trains don't stop for 8 hours just like that. They generally travel for an entire day or two before halting. Crew change, refueling and pumping water only takes 30 minutes to an hour and doesn't need long duration halts. So, there is no time for charging batteries at all. Also, batteries need replacement every 4-5 years which make them ridiculously expensive and unsustainable. There is also risk of fire when large quantity of hot lithium batteries are stacked in a carriage which has the potential of gutting an entire train.

Most trains nowadays run on electricity directly from electric wires suspended above train tracks. But trains also have backup diesel engines for emergencies for cases where electric lines may have been damaged or for travelling in remote places where the tracks have not been electrified yet. There is no need to have unnecessary batteries. Having 2-3 carriages of batteries is a massive wastage and impractical.

But your idea of battery operated trains is outrageous. The battery charging time makes it absurd. ????? not my idea ...they are now in production. Enjoy the thought and the charging time......30  to 40 minutes the same as the time it takes to swap out a crew.

batteries need replacement every 4-5 years??? not Lithium iron which is what is being used in the locomotives....10000 charges, if you charge once a day gives you a  30 year life. And yes Trains do stop for crew changes just like that....I am 500 feet away from a main line crew change station.... at least a crew change every hour......You do realize even freight trains run on timetables ..

Very practical.....next time you post check into what you are babbling about first

Edited February 2, 2022 by notsonice

[notsonice + 1,067]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Coal is being upgraded as a source of energy in China and India, worldwide coal production is now at an all-time high. 

That sounds pretty healthy to me.

You missed the press releases India is dumping coal and China is also working on it.  World wide coal production peaked in 2014 . 2021 is not the  peak year for production, it was at 7.9 billion. 2014 it was at 8.1 billion. Do you ever check your fake facts before babbling garbage?

Edited February 2, 2022 by notsonice

[notsonice + 1,067]

Coal is dead in the US....no new coal plants in the US....just demolitions

 

January 11, 2022

Coal will account for 85% of U.S. electric generating capacity retirements in 2022

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory, October 2021

---

Operators have scheduled 14.9 gigawatts (GW) of electric generating capacity to retire in the United States during 2022, according to our latest inventory of electric generators. The majority of the scheduled retirements are coal-fired power plants (85%), followed by natural gas (8%) and nuclear (5%).

Coal. After substantial retirements of U.S. coal-fired electric generating capacity from 2015 to 2020 that averaged 11.0 GW a year, coal capacity retirements slowed to 4.6 GW in 2021. However, we expect retirement of coal-fired generators to increase again this year; 12.6 GW of coal capacity is scheduled to retire in 2022, or 6% of the coal-fired generating capacity that was operating at the end of 2021.

Most of the plants making up the operating U.S. coal fleet were built in the 1970s and 1980s. U.S. coal plants are retiring as the coal fleet ages and as coal-fired generators face increasing competition from natural gas and renewables.

The largest coal power plant planning to retire in 2022 is the 1,305-megawatt (MW) William H. Zimmer plant in Ohio. Morgantown Generating Station in Maryland plans to retire its two coal-fired units (1,205 MW combined) in June, followed by two of the plant’s six smaller petroleum-fired units in September.

Natural gas. In 2022, 1.2 GW of U.S. natural gas-fired capacity is scheduled for retirement. The retiring natural gas capacity is made up of older steam and combustion turbine units, which are less efficient and smaller than many of the newer combined-cycle units.

The largest U.S. natural gas plant planning to retire in 2022 is the Meramec power plant in Missouri. Meramec, which has four generating units, was originally a coal-fired plant. Two of the plant’s generators were converted to use natural gas in 2016. These units, as well as the plant’s two coal-fired units, plan to retire in December 2022.

Nuclear. At 0.8 GW, nuclear capacity retirements represent 5% of expected retirements in 2022 and less than 1% of the operating U.S. nuclear fleet. The retiring nuclear capacity comes from one plant, the Palisades nuclear power facility in Michigan. The retirement of Palisades is a result of historically low natural gas prices, limited growth in electricity demand, and increasing competition from renewable energy.

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory, October 2021

---

Power plant owners and operators report planned retirements to EIA in our annual and monthly electric generator surveys.

A previous Today in Energy article describes the 46.1 GW of generating capacity that developers plan to bring online in 2022.

Principal contributors: Elesia Fasching, Suparna Ray

Tags: generation, coal, electricity, retirements, capacity, map

[Eric Gagen + 713]

2 minutes ago, notsonice said:

You missed the press releases India is dumping coal and China is also working on it.  World wide coal production peaked in 2008 . 2021 is not the  peak year for production, it was at 7.9 billion. 2008 it was at 8.1 billion. Do you ever check your fake facts before babbling garbage?

This graph by the way is a perfect example of what a 'real' peak in usage looks like for practically anything.  There is a long history of low level usage, then it becomes 'the thing' and usage goes up exponentially.  Forecasts are made that 'every person will be a 'coalminer/aircraft pilot/soybean farmer/telephone operator/bank clerk' or whatever.  Then the market gets saturated because the need for the thing in question is finally met.  It could stay at a relatively stable level following population growth, but in the vast majority of cases it then begins to drop, because something else has come along that works better (natural gas, jumbo jets with 2 crew, high efficiency farms, electric switchgear, ATM cards) and suddenly the last big thing is over with. 

Coal long ago passed the stage where it was 'the next big thing' roughly between 1830 and 1920, and from roughly 1950 - 2010 it was 'this big thing that nobody cares much about'  Now it's 'this big thing that is still around, but obviously going away' because there are so many good quality alternatives to it nowadays.  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

59 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Great idea ...20 years ago...maybe... They have not sold any to date...and I would not expect them to as they do not have regenerative braking as the battery locomotives do.

I would think that the price of the natural gas switchers would be much lower. Any existing switcher could be converted to natural gas. Same with any vehicle or engine of any kind. Quite an advantage. 

Europe has now deemed natural gas and nuclear as green energy sources, so electrical vehicles will not have as large a propaganda advantage. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, notsonice said:

Yep Overhead lines can be used to charge battery locos on the run........or on sidings.......You do realize trains stop every 8 hours on sidings to change crews/fuel up....plenty of time to charge up off an overhead line.......no need to have to wait for the diesel trucks to show up.....or nat gas....... In my neck of the woods we have a major rail siding that the trains are stacked up all the time waiting for the semis loaded with diesel to show up..... and to change crews.. They love to block the crossings for hours at a time. By law they can block traffic

We live a couple of hundred yards from a railroad crossing and on a small but well traveled road. We are fighting the longer trains all the time and have recently gotten good results. We have seen the problem for almost all the fifteen years we have lived here. A couple of times a year we have had to take secondary routes several miles out of the way because we didn't know how long the train would remain. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, notsonice said:

There is an electricity shortage in the US? maybe in Texas when it freezes. Right now there is excess capacity every night ...been that way for the last 100 years.....Natural Gas Locos???? what are you smoking??? Locos already are powered by electric drive traction motors.... Batteries store electricity ....Think about it??? and Locomotives haul 10,000 tons of freight plus the weight of the cars.....An extra 2 or 3 cars full of batteries is not going to impact the locomotives at all.....

LNG is very dense and can easily fuel locomotives. I have not seen any comparison to cost or utility. Overhead electric lines make sense too. Any of the above can do the job. The cost of the engines and the cost of the fuel and the cost of the overhead lines all need to be figured in. I doubt there are any good statistics. I don't smoke anything.😊

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

55 minutes ago, notsonice said:

You missed the press releases India is dumping coal and China is also working on it.  World wide coal production peaked in 2008 . 2021 is not the  peak year for production, it was at 7.9 billion. 2008 it was at 8.1 billion. Do you ever check your fake facts before babbling garbage?

Apparently you do not: India is massively ramping up coal production.  https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/coal-indias-production-rises-7-in-january-8020291.html

Future projections: https://www.climatescorecard.org/2019/05/coal-production-is-expanding-in-india/

https://madrascourier.com/environment/indias-plans-to-increase-coal-production-is-an-environmental-social-disaster/

Add Nigeria to that list... Any country that has coal and is developing will use coal and continue to do so. 

China not use coal?  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  I have swamp land to sell you... Its going cheap, prime waterfront.  They have no alternative even with building out pumped hydro everywhere and ever more hydrodams.  Hell, if I were them, I would be building even MORE of them than they already are.  Only reason their coal usage dropped slightly is because they finally switched out their old garbage generators for modern ones. 

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

 

 

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

Coal is dead in the US....no new coal plants in the US....just demolitions

 

January 11, 2022

Coal will account for 85% of U.S. electric generating capacity retirements in 2022

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory, October 2021

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Operators have scheduled 14.9 gigawatts (GW) of electric generating capacity to retire in the United States during 2022, according to our latest inventory of electric generators. The majority of the scheduled retirements are coal-fired power plants (85%), followed by natural gas (8%) and nuclear (5%).

Coal. After substantial retirements of U.S. coal-fired electric generating capacity from 2015 to 2020 that averaged 11.0 GW a year, coal capacity retirements slowed to 4.6 GW in 2021. However, we expect retirement of coal-fired generators to increase again this year; 12.6 GW of coal capacity is scheduled to retire in 2022, or 6% of the coal-fired generating capacity that was operating at the end of 2021.

Most of the plants making up the operating U.S. coal fleet were built in the 1970s and 1980s. U.S. coal plants are retiring as the coal fleet ages and as coal-fired generators face increasing competition from natural gas and renewables.

The largest coal power plant planning to retire in 2022 is the 1,305-megawatt (MW) William H. Zimmer plant in Ohio. Morgantown Generating Station in Maryland plans to retire its two coal-fired units (1,205 MW combined) in June, followed by two of the plant’s six smaller petroleum-fired units in September.

Natural gas. In 2022, 1.2 GW of U.S. natural gas-fired capacity is scheduled for retirement. The retiring natural gas capacity is made up of older steam and combustion turbine units, which are less efficient and smaller than many of the newer combined-cycle units.

The largest U.S. natural gas plant planning to retire in 2022 is the Meramec power plant in Missouri. Meramec, which has four generating units, was originally a coal-fired plant. Two of the plant’s generators were converted to use natural gas in 2016. These units, as well as the plant’s two coal-fired units, plan to retire in December 2022.

Nuclear. At 0.8 GW, nuclear capacity retirements represent 5% of expected retirements in 2022 and less than 1% of the operating U.S. nuclear fleet. The retiring nuclear capacity comes from one plant, the Palisades nuclear power facility in Michigan. The retirement of Palisades is a result of historically low natural gas prices, limited growth in electricity demand, and increasing competition from renewable energy.

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory, October 2021

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Power plant owners and operators report planned retirements to EIA in our annual and monthly electric generator surveys.

A previous Today in Energy article describes the 46.1 GW of generating capacity that developers plan to bring online in 2022.

Principal contributors: Elesia Fasching, Suparna Ray

Tags: generation, coal, electricity, retirements, capacity, map

I guess you did not read the IEA fine print,

"The economic rebound from the pandemic is taking coal power generation to a new record high this year, with global coal demand likely hitting another new high next year, undermining net-zero efforts, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said in its annual Coal 2021 report released on Friday.

According to the agency, the 2020 collapse in coal demand turned out to be smaller than anticipated, as China’s recovery began sooner than expected and turned out to be stronger than initially forecast.

Based on current trends, global coal demand is set to rise to 8025 Mt in 2022, the highest level ever seen, and to remain there through 2024, the IEA estimates.

This year’s global recovery dashed any hopes that coal-fired power generation may have peaked, the IEA said, expecting global coal power generation to rise by 9 percent this year to 10350 terawatt-hours (TWh)—a new all-time high.

Over the next two years, global coal demand could even see new record highs as emerging markets led by China and India will lead consumption growth which is set to outpace declines in developed economies, according to the IEA."