GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ron Wagner + 642]

On 5/22/2022 at 9:29 PM, Ecocharger said:

Burning gas keeps the lights on for this old world...that sounds good to me.

Natural gas is about as clean a fuel as there is. I burn it to heat my house and just keep a window cracked right above it. The world is full of false propaganda against natural gas. It has more potential than any other energy and has allowed America to have the cleanest air of any major industrialized nation. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Not necessarily, some people buy both ICE and EV vehicles.

That is why there is not perfect substitution between the two products, both have growing outputs.

You have to do statistical studies of cross-market price elasticities to find the degree of market independence. In this case it would not be anywhere close to perfect.

And those people drive their EVs as much as possible and keep their ICE as specialty / collectors items. Why else would you buy one of each?

Edited May 24, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

On 5/22/2022 at 9:16 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes, where you could not understand the concept of me showing you the actual agreement that the dealers signed. 

Jay you are one bloviating machine. Due NOTICE the distinctions...Then again perhaps not..after all it is your way.

Choice of Law Issues in Franchise and Dealership Agreements.

https://www.leydiglaw.com/articles/choice-of-law-issues-in-franchise-and-dealership-agreements/

I see your still deferring your thoughts to others. I find it astounding you cannot or will not share some personal marketing depth.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

47 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Jay you are one bloviating machine. Due NOTICE the distinctions...Then again perhaps not..after all it is your way.

Choice of Law Issues in Franchise and Dealership Agreements.

You magnificent imbecile.  You didn't post an actual link. But that doesn't matter because what you could not comprehend is that I posted the actual agreement the dealers signed. Apparently you still can't comprehend that. Choice of law issues are irrelevant. The agreement they sign says absolutely nothing about whether they can sell cars through other agreements with other dealers or directly. 

If you keep up this abject stupidity I will have to again show you to be the dullard that you are. Now Volkswagen has announced the new Scout division is going to be direct to consumer and the dealers are up in arms about it with no legal recourse.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

51 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Apparently you still can't comprehend that. Choice of law issues are irrelevant. The agreement they sign says absolutely nothing about whether they can sell cars through other agreements with other dealers or directly. 

Have a read...lmao I told you Ford would not split and they did not. The Family interceded. Long night Jay feeling a smidge crabby? Or is this Green Socialist debacle wearing you a smidge thin?

https://www.leydiglaw.com/articles/choice-of-law-issues-in-franchise-and-dealership-agreements/

Edited May 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

58 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Volkswagen has announced the new Scout division is going to be direct to consumer and the dealers are up in arms about it with no legal recourse.

Oh good for VW, perhaps this failure will keep them closer to home.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

9 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Have a read...lmao

https://www.leydiglaw.com/articles/choice-of-law-issues-in-franchise-and-dealership-agreements/

As I knew, it is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. Nothing in the dealership agreement denies the right of the OEM to sell vehicles through other agreements or directly and nothing in state law demands that this requirement  be included.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

3 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

As I knew, it is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. Nothing in the dealership agreement denies the right of the OEM to sell vehicles through other agreements or directly and nothing in state law demands that this requirement  be included.

Do not practice law..you have some emotional issues. Actually Jay it's getting late. You posted a SEC franchise agreement crying havoc. 

You do understand a dealer agreement is not franchise law.

Edited May 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Oh good for VW, perhaps this failure will keep them closer to home.

More likely it will be their big break through to the American market. You should watch what John McElroy at Autoline (and old school car guy) has to say about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGQC0NYDfs8

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

28 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Do not practice law..you have some emotional issues.

It's called an education and I accept your capitulation. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[notsonice + 1,063]

New EVs in the next couple of  years  for the US market (does not include ones you can buy today)......Please add to the list and please post the ones you can already buy...............Enjoy the future is here today...Eat your heart out Ecochump

 

2023 bZ4X Toyota

2023 BMW i7

2022 ID.4 Volkswagen

2024 Buick Electra

2025 Chrysler Airflow

2023 Aston Martin Lagonda All-Terrain

2024 Polestar 5 Volvo

2022 Volkswagen ID.Space Vizzion

2022 Maserati MC20 EV

2025 ? Chevrolet Corvette EV

2026 Volkswagen Project Trinity

2024 Acura Electric SUV

2024 Audi A6 e-tron

2022 Bollinger B2

2025 Cadillac Celestiq

2024 Canoo Pickup Truck

2023 Chevrolet Silverado Electric pickup

2024 Dodge eMuscle

2024 or2025? Ford Explorer EV

2022 Genesis G80 Electrified Hyundai

2022 Genesis GV60 Hyundai

 

2023 GMC Sierra EV

2024 Honda Prologue

2022 Hyundai Ioniq 6

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB

2022 Nissan Ariya

2023 Polestar 3 Volvo

2022 Polestar 2 Volvo

 

2023 Porsche Macan EV

2024 Ram 1500 Electric

2022 Tesla Cybertruck

2023 Volkswagen ID. Buzz

2022 Volvo C40 Recharge

Edited May 24, 2022 by notsonice

[Rob Plant + 2,605]

3 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

It has more potential than any other energy and has allowed America to have the cleanest air of any major industrialized nation. 

Nope not even close Ron, USA doesnt even get in the top 10

https://www.u-earth.eu/post/world-most-least-polluted-countries

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pollution-by-country

Canada and Australia unsurprisingly due to their lower population density and larger land area are way better. 

According to the below list on air quality the US ranks 23rd

https://www.atlasandboots.com/travel-blog/which-country-has-the-cleanest-air-in-the-world/

Edited May 24, 2022 by Rob Plant

[TailingsPond + 461]

8 hours ago, Ron Wagner said:

Natural gas is about as clean a fuel as there is. I burn it to heat my house and just keep a window cracked right above it. The world is full of false propaganda against natural gas. It has more potential than any other energy and has allowed America to have the cleanest air of any major industrialized nation. 

Huh?  You don't use a proper furnace? 

This may explain a lot.

[Polyphia + 67]

9 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Huh?  You don't use a proper furnace? 

This may explain a lot.

That response made me do a spit take.

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,177]

9 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Huh?  You don't use a proper furnace? 

This may explain a lot.

Possibly Ron uses a ventless gas heater, very common throughout the u.s.of a. While they are 100% efficient they do put alot of moisture and some vapors. If you don't know what a ventless heater is google it.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

15 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It's called an education and I accept your capitulation. 

I see stunted savant was a overly generous description, perhaps the abridged version would be in order.." Stunted" no speculation required.

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

22 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

And those people drive their EVs as much as possible and keep their ICE as specialty / collectors items. Why else would you buy one of each?

Jay, this is a standard analysis of markets using estimates of  cross-market price elasticities. And even that does not mean that one product has displaced another product, it just shows how much demand shifts between products according to price changes. Both products could increase if the sector to which they belong also experiences demand increases. The idea that one product displaces another is economic nonsense.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

The demand for oil and gasoline has increased in spite of increasing oil and gasoline prices.

That shows how central and essential fossil fuels are for standard transportation needs.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/WTI-Spikes-On-Large-Draw-In-Gasoline-Inventories.html

"This week, the API reported a large draw in gasoline inventories of 4.223 million barrels for the week ending May 20—on top of the previous week's 5.102-million-barrel draw.

Distillate stocks also saw a draw in inventory, of 949,000 barrels for the week compared to last week's 1.075-million-barrel increase.

Cushing saw a 731,000-barrel draw this week. Cushing inventories crashed to 25.839 million barrels in the week prior, as of May 13, according to EIA data—down from 59.2 million barrels at the start of 2021, and down from 37.3 million barrels at the end of 2021."

Edited May 25, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

19 hours ago, notsonice said:

New EVs in the next couple of  years  for the US market (does not include ones you can buy today)......Please add to the list and please post the ones you can already buy...............Enjoy the future is here today...Eat your heart out Ecochump

 

2023 bZ4X Toyota

2023 BMW i7

2022 ID.4 Volkswagen

2024 Buick Electra

2025 Chrysler Airflow

2023 Aston Martin Lagonda All-Terrain

2024 Polestar 5 Volvo

2022 Volkswagen ID.Space Vizzion

2022 Maserati MC20 EV

2025 ? Chevrolet Corvette EV

2026 Volkswagen Project Trinity

2024 Acura Electric SUV

2024 Audi A6 e-tron

2022 Bollinger B2

2025 Cadillac Celestiq

2024 Canoo Pickup Truck

2023 Chevrolet Silverado Electric pickup

2024 Dodge eMuscle

2024 or2025? Ford Explorer EV

2022 Genesis G80 Electrified Hyundai

2022 Genesis GV60 Hyundai

 

2023 GMC Sierra EV

2024 Honda Prologue

2022 Hyundai Ioniq 6

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB

2022 Nissan Ariya

2023 Polestar 3 Volvo

2022 Polestar 2 Volvo

 

2023 Porsche Macan EV

2024 Ram 1500 Electric

2022 Tesla Cybertruck

2023 Volkswagen ID. Buzz

2022 Volvo C40 Recharge

EVs are and will remain less than 1% of the vehicle market. Sorry to spoil your celebration.

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

20 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It's called an education and I accept your capitulation. 

It is time for you to get an education in economics...you have come to the right place, Jay.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, this is a standard analysis of markets using estimates of  cross-market price elasticities. And even that does not mean that one product has displaced another product, it just shows how much demand shifts between products according to price changes. Both products could increase if the sector too which they belong also increases. The idea that one product displaces another is economic nonsense.

You keep confusing the future and the past. We have the actual numbers for the past. The past is a zero sum market.

 And if demand shifts between products according to price changes that is the absolute definition of product substitution. This is basic economics.

• In economics, products are often substitutes if the demand for one product increases when the price of the other goes up.
• https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/substitute.asp#:~:text=In economics%2C products are often,lower prices in the marketplace.

[Ron Wagner + 642]

19 hours ago, notsonice said:

New EVs in the next couple of  years  for the US market (does not include ones you can buy today)......Please add to the list and please post the ones you can already buy...............Enjoy the future is here today...Eat your heart out Ecochump

 

2023 bZ4X Toyota

2023 BMW i7

2022 ID.4 Volkswagen

2024 Buick Electra

2025 Chrysler Airflow

2023 Aston Martin Lagonda All-Terrain

2024 Polestar 5 Volvo

2022 Volkswagen ID.Space Vizzion

2022 Maserati MC20 EV

2025 ? Chevrolet Corvette EV

2026 Volkswagen Project Trinity

2024 Acura Electric SUV

2024 Audi A6 e-tron

2022 Bollinger B2

2025 Cadillac Celestiq

2024 Canoo Pickup Truck

2023 Chevrolet Silverado Electric pickup

2024 Dodge eMuscle

2024 or2025? Ford Explorer EV

2022 Genesis G80 Electrified Hyundai

2022 Genesis GV60 Hyundai

 

2023 GMC Sierra EV

2024 Honda Prologue

2022 Hyundai Ioniq 6

2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB

2022 Nissan Ariya

2023 Polestar 3 Volvo

2022 Polestar 2 Volvo

 

2023 Porsche Macan EV

2024 Ram 1500 Electric

2022 Tesla Cybertruck

2023 Volkswagen ID. Buzz

2022 Volvo C40 Recharge

Great, I hope they do well and and there is enough electricity to keep them running. Just don't expect wind and solar to be up to the job anytime soon. I also hope that they are affordable vehicles, which I doubt we will seeing anytime soon. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said:

Great, I hope they do well and and there is enough electricity to keep them running. Just don't expect wind and solar to be up to the job anytime soon. I also hope that they are affordable vehicles, which I doubt we will seeing anytime soon. 

California Q1 sales of Tesla Model Y 22K, Model 3 21K, Mitsubishi Mirage 418. https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-1Q-22-002.pdf

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You keep confusing the future and the past. We have the actual numbers for the past. The past is a zero sum market.

 And if demand shifts between products according to price changes that is the absolute definition of product substitution. This is basic economics.

• In economics, products are often substitutes if the demand for one product increases when the price of the other goes up.
• https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/substitute.asp#:~:text=In economics%2C products are often,lower prices in the marketplace.

The shift in demand can happen even if demand for both products increases, Jay. That is where you and your mistaken links are missing the point. You are trying to suggest that this is a zero-sum game where the producers compete over a larger piece of the pie, whereas in reality the pie itself may grow or decline, and both producers experience an increase or decrease in demand for their product. 

That is the same mistake that trade commentators make about the impact of tariffs on trade, looking only at a static production model and forgetting the impact of trade policy on the growth or decline of overall production.

A common error which is basic to the type of empty propaganda which you seem to be attracted to.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

California Q1 sales of Tesla Model Y 22K, Model 3 21K, Mitsubishi Mirage 418. https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-1Q-22-002.pdf

Again, you need to look at the overall market for vehicles to gain any sense of  relative achievement for the EV sector. That EV sector remains at less than 1%, and will continue to be there as long as overall vehicle markets continue to grow and increase the amount of ICE vehicles sold.