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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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34 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

By supporting a guy who doesn't believe in democracy or the environment?

You know as well as I do that Trump had very little negative effect on the progress of tackling climate change. You also know as well as I do that the American trade deficit has blown out to approx $1trn/annum, and that without the coming export boom of oil and LNG, the US economy is dead meat. You also know that constraining your O&G sector will not make the rest of the planet consume less of the stuff, only aid your competitors to take an even greater slice of the US share market, property market, and agricultural sector. Are you willing to literally sell off the farms in order to fund your trade deficit?

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(edited)

40 minutes ago, Wombat One said:

I think Trump could be persuaded to believe in this:

The Lone Star State May Host The World’s Next Big Hydrogen Hub | OilPrice.com

That is completely based on Democrat initiated projects at the Department of Energy. All Trump ever did was open up wilderness areas to drilling, rollback clean air and clean water rules, fight renewable energy projects, etc,. etc. No one cares about trying to convince him of anything. He is unneeded, we are getting it done. Supporting Trump and calling yourself an environmentalist is the height of hypocrisy or delusion, you pick.

Your analysis above that our economy is reliant on fossil fuel exports is definitely not the environmentalist or technologist answer. Actually we should close down our fossil fuel exports like we did up until 6 years ago. Our efforts need to be focused on mining and more importantly refining elements for renewable energy systems as well as using technology to bring manufacturing back by undercutting the cost of imports through the use of robotics and implementation of a universal basic income as well as a carbon tax. Then as the article suggests we can begin exporting green hydrogen if CCS ever actually works.

 

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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9 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

That is completely based on Democrat initiated projects at the Department of Energy. All Trump ever did was open up wilderness areas to drilling, rollback clean air and clean water rules, fight renewable energy projects, etc,. etc. No one cares about trying to convince him of anything. He is unneeded, we are getting it done. Supporting Trump and calling yourself an environmentalist is the height of hypocrisy or delusion, you pick.

Your analysis above that our economy is reliant on fossil fuel exports is definitely not the environmentalist or technologist answer. Actually we should close down our fossil fuel exports like we did up until 6 years ago. Our efforts need to be focused on mining and more importantly refining elements for renewable energy systems as well as using technology to bring manufacturing back by undercutting the cost of imports through the use of robotics and implementation of a universal basic income as well as a carbon tax.

 

You seem to have forgotten that the main way in which the USA has reduced emissions in the last 15 years is by switching from coal to natural gas? Do you really believe that the likes of Japan, SK, Taiwan, India, or China will be able to actually reduce their emissions in a timely fashion without a massive increase in LNG imports? Get real Jay. The biggest enemy is coal. When you consider that most ships will be switching from bunker oil to LNG over the next 2 decades, that strengthens the case for the product. You cannot electrify large ships, or aircraft for that matter. Which is why I find it a bit strange that you ignore the coming H2 economy? Maybe you are blinded by the performance of your Tesla shares? 

As for the US economy, you will in the next few years discover the true cost of MMT as interest rates rise and your mania starts to fade. I highly recommend that you flog half of your Tesla shares now and invest in an LNG company that will actually pay good dividends over the next 2-3 decades in order to hedge your bets :)

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(edited)

25 minutes ago, Wombat One said:

You seem to have forgotten that the main way in which the USA has reduced emissions in the last 15 years is by switching from coal to natural gas? Do you really believe that the likes of Japan, SK, Taiwan, India, or China will be able to actually reduce their emissions in a timely fashion without a massive increase in LNG imports? Get real Jay. The biggest enemy is coal. When you consider that most ships will be switching from bunker oil to LNG over the next 2 decades, that strengthens the case for the product. You cannot electrify large ships, or aircraft for that matter. Which is why I find it a bit strange that you ignore the coming H2 economy? Maybe you are blinded by the performance of your Tesla shares? 

As for the US economy, you will in the next few years discover the true cost of MMT as interest rates rise and your mania starts to fade. I highly recommend that you flog half of your Tesla shares now and invest in an LNG company that will actually pay good dividends over the next 2-3 decades in order to hedge your bets :)

"The biggest enemy is coal" and coal is Trump's favorite cause. I am just as dismayed that you overlook this fact.

You are conflating LNG and H2. I said I support the US exporting green hydrogen. However H2 is not going to be a player in the light vehicle market and is marginal in trucking. The H2 market will be in industry (steel production, long term energy storage, etc), ships, airplanes maybe but bio fuel seems a better fit, rail, long distance trucking (most trucking is local and will be battery powered). You also seem to overlook how fast battery technology is advancing.

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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(edited)

On 1/1/2022 at 7:59 AM, Boat said:

There are still a couple issues to deal with. Most of the market can’t afford a $15,000 EV and who can roll out multiple factories of cheap cars even if the tech was there. Chinese cars for example have limited value on the interstate rolling along at 80 mph in heavy traffic. Even today the battery tech is anticipated but yet delivered. Is this anticipated battery improved enough to drop costs? Will it take yet another round of innovation which might push out cheaper cars a few years later.
Tesla is not so much late on their battery tech but the pickup and the semi are delayed. Details are sketchy with transparency lacking on the timeline for 2 plants and their battery availability. In a month they will be late but at what significance, we’ll see.

Having a bunch of battery plants with lousy range or to heavy a battery seems foolhardy. But we’ll see. 

Most of the market can’t afford a $15,000 EV????? what are you babbling about? in April of 2019 the average price of a new car in the US was $36,270. and the average loan was $30,000. The average cost of a new car climbing to $38,723 as of September 2020. 

a 50 KWH battery (Tesla Model 3 comes with a 50 kWh battery and 263 miles of range) at $130 to $135 per KWH capacity estimate for 2022) runs $6500 which is not going to place upcoming midsize cars out of the $30,000 to $40000 range at all.  Battery costs have falling hard in the last couple of years....try to keep up with reality

The only cars selling for $15000 new now are tiny subcompact no frills cars.

Average New Car Price by Vehicle Segment
Vehicle Segment Average Price
Compact car $21,783
Compact SUV/crossover $31,027
Electric vehicle $42,620
Entry-level luxury car $42,016
Full-size car $36,487
Full-size pickup truck $51,424
Full-size SUV/crossover $66,811
High-performance car $97,481
High-end luxury car $92,800
Hybrid/alternative energy car $27,722
Luxury car $58,174
Luxury compact SUV/crossover $46,563
Luxury full-size SUV/crossover $89,524
Luxury mid-size SUV/crossover $57,390
Luxury subcompact SUV/crossover $39,882
Mid-size car $27,545
Mid-size pickup truck $36,203
Mid-size SUV/crossover $39,969
Minivan $33,495
Sports car $36,147
Subcompact car $16,511
Subcompact SUV/crossover $25,197
Van $40,484

 

Edited by notsonice
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another battery plant announced....Peak Oil ? did it already happen??? EV's to be rolling out in 2022 in Turkey

  • January 02 2022 19:41:11
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  •  

Battery factory to create 12,000 jobs in Gemlik

BURSA
Battery factory to create 12,000 jobs in Gemlik

The new battery factory in the northwestern province of Bursa’s Gemlik district is expected to create 2,000 jobs directly and 10,000 jobs indirectly, Gemlik Chamber of Commerce and Industry head Paşa Ağdemir has said.

“The fact that a $5 billion battery factory will be built next to an automobile factory shows the good place our country stands at and how lucky our district is,” he told local media.

The Marmara province of Bursa houses 60 percent of Turkey’s automotive and supply industries, he noted.

“We have a highway and a port. A railroad connection will be added soon. The battery factory will provide jobs to 2,000 people directly and 10,000 people will benefit from it indirectly,” said Ağdemir.

Turkey’s Automobile Initiative Group (TOGG) will establish the plant with Chinese battery giant Farasis.

SiRo, a joint venture of TOGG and Farasis, will produce 15 gigawatt/hour battery cells and modules.

Farasis will supply TOGG the key part of Turkey’s $2.8 billion endeavor to produce its own automobile brand. Electric cars produced by TOGG are expected to hit the roads in 2022, two years before being exported to European markets.

 

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5 hours ago, Wombat One said:

Yes, we already have that in the West. It is called the "Service Economy". It is all thanks to globalisation.

Except that jobs in the service economy are precisely the ones being eliminated by new technology right now, so the problem has to be solved again.

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4 hours ago, Wombat One said:

Nup. What you need is to bring back manufacturing jobs via effective tariffs. Either that, or bomb the crap out of China.

If we put major tarriffs on China it wouldn’t bring back many jobs.  It would bring back a lot of manufacturing, but it would be highly automated, because it doesn’t make sense to utilize a lot of human work in a market with labor prices like the USA has.

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5 hours ago, Wombat One said:

I usually find myself in 100% agreement with you Eric, but I can assure you that no matter how much action we take, climate change will still become very ugly and hideously expensive. Not so much in terms of lives lost, but in terms of "livelihoods" lost. The cost of tackling climate change is estimated at $100 trillion, but I can assure you that this a drop in the ocean compared to the future cost of climate change over the next 2 centuries regardless of how rapidly we reduce our CO2 emissions. It will take nearly a millenia to return CO2 levels back to "normal" even if we do achieve net-zero by 2050. The biggest lie that the IPCC tells is that we can limit global warming to 1.5 degrees. Even with net-zero by 2050, it would be something of a miracle to limit warming to 3 degrees by 2150. It would require very cheap nuclear fusion combined with actual CO2 "scrubbing" (ie: artificial trees). The only other possibilty is even cheaper and more efficient solar cells, perhaps Perovskite cells. There would need to be an abundance of cheap energy and the political will to spend a fortune on artificial trees. Failing that, WW3 may be the only option. Perhaps some other form of population control such as a "real" global pandemic?

A world where warming was limited to 5 degrees F would be one where the dramatic effects of global warming don’t happen, and I stand by my statement - nobody will remember the panic people are going through right now in such a scenario.

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4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

By supporting a guy who doesn't believe in democracy or the environment? That isn't very rational.

And just who put the badge of democracy on you? Your arrogance is appalling.

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11 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

And just who put the badge of democracy on you? Your arrogance is appalling.

Very simply because I believe it should be easy for everyone to vote and I don't support attempting a coup if my side loses the election, basically the definition of democracy. The definition of arrogance is not being able to accept that you lost even after all your stupid audits concluded that you lost.

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(edited)

Thanks to misguided Green hysteria, gasoline prices are skyrocketing in California, hurting those who can least afford to be hurt, the voters who chose Biden & Co. to rule from Washington. Political betrayal in full force.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/6-Gasoline-Could-Become-The-New-Normal-In-This-US-State.html

"Gasoline prices have remained unattractively high across much of the United States in the latter half of 2021, and a new study reveals that one U.S. state may see gasoline prices near $6. 

According to a new study published by GasBuddy this week, gasoline prices could reach $6 per gallon in San Fransisco, with Los Angelos and Sacramento reaching $5.50 per gallon. For some cities in California, this would be the highest nominal average ever paid.

Currently, the price of a gallon of gasoline in California is $4.65, according to AAA, compared to the national average of $3.285 per gallon. California is notorious for having some of the highest gasoline prices in the nation, and it looks like they will be keeping this distinction into the new year. 

For 2022, GasBuddy is predicting a rise of nearly 40 cents per gallon, to $3.41 per gallon—with $4 per gallon a real possibility by springtime, and $4.13 by June before slacking off post-summer to just under $3. "

Edited by Ecocharger

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(edited)

48 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Very simply because I believe it should be easy for everyone to vote and I don't support attempting a coup if my side loses the election, basically the definition of democracy. The definition of arrogance is not being able to accept that you lost even after all your stupid audits concluded that you lost.

The last 2 election cycles, more minorities voted than ever before. Wtf are you taking about?

Oh, like the democrats didn't declare Trump an illegitimate president first and then try to remove him via the completely fabricated Russia-gate inquiry and two ridiculous and unfounded impeachments? 

The left doesn't have any standards except for double standards. 

Edited by QuarterCenturyVet
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14 hours ago, notsonice said:

Most of the market can’t afford a $15,000 EV????? what are you babbling about? in April of 2019 the average price of a new car in the US was $36,270. and the average loan was $30,000. The average cost of a new car climbing to $38,723 as of September 2020. 

a 50 KWH battery (Tesla Model 3 comes with a 50 kWh battery and 263 miles of range) at $130 to $135 per KWH capacity estimate for 2022) runs $6500 which is not going to place upcoming midsize cars out of the $30,000 to $40000 range at all.  Battery costs have falling hard in the last couple of years....try to keep up with reality

The only cars selling for $15000 new now are tiny subcompact no frills cars.

Average New Car Price by Vehicle Segment
Vehicle Segment Average Price
Compact car $21,783
Compact SUV/crossover $31,027
Electric vehicle $42,620
Entry-level luxury car $42,016
Full-size car $36,487
Full-size pickup truck $51,424
Full-size SUV/crossover $66,811
High-performance car $97,481
High-end luxury car $92,800
Hybrid/alternative energy car $27,722
Luxury car $58,174
Luxury compact SUV/crossover $46,563
Luxury full-size SUV/crossover $89,524
Luxury mid-size SUV/crossover $57,390
Luxury subcompact SUV/crossover $39,882
Mid-size car $27,545
Mid-size pickup truck $36,203
Mid-size SUV/crossover $39,969
Minivan $33,495
Sports car $36,147
Subcompact car $16,511
Subcompact SUV/crossover $25,197
Van $40,484

 

Battery costs are going to be moving upward with higher input costs going forward.

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15 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

That is completely based on Democrat initiated projects at the Department of Energy. All Trump ever did was open up wilderness areas to drilling, rollback clean air and clean water rules, fight renewable energy projects, etc,. etc. No one cares about trying to convince him of anything. He is unneeded, we are getting it done. Supporting Trump and calling yourself an environmentalist is the height of hypocrisy or delusion, you pick.

Your analysis above that our economy is reliant on fossil fuel exports is definitely not the environmentalist or technologist answer. Actually we should close down our fossil fuel exports like we did up until 6 years ago. Our efforts need to be focused on mining and more importantly refining elements for renewable energy systems as well as using technology to bring manufacturing back by undercutting the cost of imports through the use of robotics and implementation of a universal basic income as well as a carbon tax. Then as the article suggests we can begin exporting green hydrogen if CCS ever actually works.

 

No need for a carbon tax.

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19 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

 

I agree, the recall rate for ICE cars is not good.

The recall rate for EVs is worse.

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(edited)

17 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

By supporting a guy who doesn't believe in democracy or the environment? That isn't very rational.

"A guy who doesn't believe in democracy or the environment"?

You mean the guy in office right now?

Edited by Ecocharger
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(edited)

15 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

That is completely based on Democrat initiated projects at the Department of Energy. All Trump ever did was open up wilderness areas to drilling, rollback clean air and clean water rules, fight renewable energy projects, etc,. etc. No one cares about trying to convince him of anything. He is unneeded, we are getting it done. Supporting Trump and calling yourself an environmentalist is the height of hypocrisy or delusion, you pick.

Your analysis above that our economy is reliant on fossil fuel exports is definitely not the environmentalist or technologist answer. Actually we should close down our fossil fuel exports like we did up until 6 years ago. Our efforts need to be focused on mining and more importantly refining elements for renewable energy systems as well as using technology to bring manufacturing back by undercutting the cost of imports through the use of robotics and implementation of a universal basic income as well as a carbon tax. Then as the article suggests we can begin exporting green hydrogen if CCS ever actually works.

 

A complete waste of unnecessary effort. No need to reduce CO2.

We need CO2 to keep alive and breathing, although some of that breath is wasted on misguided hysteria by misinformed climate activists.

Edited by Ecocharger

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Learn one of the principles of Mind Control which is used by the establishment to push Agenda 21 Green Extremism and COVID dictatorial directives etc. 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/01/shocking-video-melbourne-man-lights-fire-victorias-vaccine-mandates/?ff_source=Gab&ff_medium=PostTopSharingButtons&ff_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

To learn more see:

https://drive.google.com/drive/search?q=ukraine

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15 hours ago, notsonice said:

Most of the market can’t afford a $15,000 EV????? what are you babbling about? in April of 2019 the average price of a new car in the US was $36,270. and the average loan was $30,000. The average cost of a new car climbing to $38,723 as of September 2020. 

a 50 KWH battery (Tesla Model 3 comes with a 50 kWh battery and 263 miles of range) at $130 to $135 per KWH capacity estimate for 2022) runs $6500 which is not going to place upcoming midsize cars out of the $30,000 to $40000 range at all.  Battery costs have falling hard in the last couple of years....try to keep up with reality

The only cars selling for $15000 new now are tiny subcompact no frills cars.

Average New Car Price by Vehicle Segment
Vehicle Segment Average Price
Compact car $21,783
Compact SUV/crossover $31,027
Electric vehicle $42,620
Entry-level luxury car $42,016
Full-size car $36,487
Full-size pickup truck $51,424
Full-size SUV/crossover $66,811
High-performance car $97,481
High-end luxury car $92,800
Hybrid/alternative energy car $27,722
Luxury car $58,174
Luxury compact SUV/crossover $46,563
Luxury full-size SUV/crossover $89,524
Luxury mid-size SUV/crossover $57,390
Luxury subcompact SUV/crossover $39,882
Mid-size car $27,545
Mid-size pickup truck $36,203
Mid-size SUV/crossover $39,969
Minivan $33,495
Sports car $36,147
Subcompact car $16,511
Subcompact SUV/crossover $25,197
Van $40,484

 

Here is a recent report on one dissatisfied EV customer. Ouch!!

https://www.motortrend.com/news/aggrieved-tesla-owner-obliterates-model-s-dynamite/

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On 12/31/2021 at 9:00 PM, Boat said:

Take for example Afghanistan. We should know from Vietnam you can control a country with ground troops only at a high price of troops and treasure. But any area can be controlled by air. Drones, missiles and aircraft is much cheaper and safer. Ground troops are so 1944. So why have ground troops sitting as ducks world wide? 

We have wasted enormous amounts of blood and money in the Middle East. Our leaders talked us into destroying countries and then trying to rebuild them in our own image. We may have spent as much trying to rebuild and hold them as we did taking them over to start with. Our reward for "freeing" these people was few or no economic benefits and the people not becoming any more free but possibly much worse off in some cases. 911 led us from retaliation to insanity in policy. We probably attacked the wrong people anyway. No one seems to have that figured out yet but the Saudis seem to have been the real perpetrators. Our "intelligence" organizations seemed to be a total failure,  with the FBI at the forefront by ignoring (or pretending to ignore) the Saudis training to fly large passenger planes but not wanting to learn to land them. The "military industrial complex" made hundreds of billions while many of their contracts were "no bid" contracts. Dick Cheney was at the center of the whole thing and seemed to be directing it. Liz Cheney seems to want to carry on the family business somehow. The establishment in both parties supported all the wars and fed the public a lot of misinformation. We broke military law with torture that was never legal before. Then we let almost all the prisoners go or let them escape in incidents with hundreds of prisoners escaping at a time. More recently Biden ended our war in Afghanistan by having our military flee in the night without notice, leaving billions of dollars of high quality military hardware to our enemies, as will as hundreds of our allied linguists and even our own citizens. We have lost credibility with our allies and potential allies in the future. 

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23 hours ago, Wombat One said:

Yes indeed Eric. Am not sure if you have been following the launch of the Webb space telescope, but I can assure you that the technology involved is also being applied by the USAF in the pursuit of "space mirrors" that will send concentrated beams of microwaves to power remote bases, anywhere, anytime.  Green dreams are for the future.

 

ICE is all we should use except where there are established charging points or generators that are mobile. Primarily that would be in the West only. 

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15 hours ago, notsonice said:

Most of the market can’t afford a $15,000 EV????? what are you babbling about? in April of 2019 the average price of a new car in the US was $36,270. and the average loan was $30,000. The average cost of a new car climbing to $38,723 as of September 2020. 

a 50 KWH battery (Tesla Model 3 comes with a 50 kWh battery and 263 miles of range) at $130 to $135 per KWH capacity estimate for 2022) runs $6500 which is not going to place upcoming midsize cars out of the $30,000 to $40000 range at all.  Battery costs have falling hard in the last couple of years....try to keep up with reality

The only cars selling for $15000 new now are tiny subcompact no frills cars.

Average New Car Price by Vehicle Segment
Vehicle Segment Average Price
Compact car $21,783
Compact SUV/crossover $31,027
Electric vehicle $42,620
Entry-level luxury car $42,016
Full-size car $36,487
Full-size pickup truck $51,424
Full-size SUV/crossover $66,811
High-performance car $97,481
High-end luxury car $92,800
Hybrid/alternative energy car $27,722
Luxury car $58,174
Luxury compact SUV/crossover $46,563
Luxury full-size SUV/crossover $89,524
Luxury mid-size SUV/crossover $57,390
Luxury subcompact SUV/crossover $39,882
Mid-size car $27,545
Mid-size pickup truck $36,203
Mid-size SUV/crossover $39,969
Minivan $33,495
Sports car $36,147
Subcompact car $16,511
Subcompact SUV/crossover $25,197
Van $40,484

 

You're always such an American-centric mind. 

The world market, genius, can't quite afford $15K. 

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40 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

We have lost credibility with our allies and potential allies in the future. 

Especially when Trump sold out our Kurdish allies.

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