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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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(edited)

13 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

They already are. 

I disagree when you compare apples with apples

Why do you still drive your ICE BMW then? i presume its not a 10 year old nail?

I believe you will need $71,296 to convert to a BMW i4 all electric (base on UK price and converted to US$ at today's XR)

https://www.lookers.co.uk/bmw/new-cars/i-range/the-i4?gclid=CjwKCAiA24SPBhB0EiwAjBgkhlMDLtq8OE2eL19NMuVamvJxGFu68CdPFp5-uUHZ-xZtgVrg_GpW2xoCvgAQAvD_BwE

Looking forward to you posting pics of you in it 😉👍

Edited by Rob Plant
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10 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

huh?  how do you figure?  Comfort and cache are two of the big selling points for EV's  

The best thing about an EV is you can defrost it by using your phone (as well as the obvious fuel and tax benefits)

That defrost function sure helps when youre running late for work in a morning!

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(edited)

22 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I disagree when you compare apples with apples

Why do you still drive your ICE BMW then? i presume its not a 10 year old nail?

I believe you will need $71,296 to convert to a BMW i4 all electric (base on UK price and converted to US$ at today's XR)

Looking forward to you posting pics of you in it 😉👍

What are you babbling about? 

Comparing apples to apples is comparing new cars to new cars. Are you sure you aren't a dumb?

Here is what Tesla is doing to BMW ICE in California:

image.png.f05f0ce1bd169323a4bd8458ef90df45.pngimage.png.bf4bbcf733ab1489fbbcd3162f2df885.png

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-3Q-21.pdf

 

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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(edited)

20 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Comparing apples to apples is comparing new cars to new cars

Thats total crap you have to compare the same like for like car ie a BMW ICE to a BMW EV. You said they are comparable cost base which they arent!

You are again trying to be clever by changing the goal posts. Tesla do not make ICE vehicles so you cannot compare this scenario with Tesla, and dont come back saying Tesla are a competitor of BMW because that wasnt the original point was it! You said EV's were at the same cost base as ICE, they arent currently.

I'm not against EV's but to claim they are at comparable costs to ICE is wrong or you yourself would be driving an EV surely????

Still waiting for those lovely pics of you in your new BMW EV (take the hat off though) 😉

Edited by Rob Plant
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On 1/13/2022 at 11:23 AM, ronwagn said:

Ron, I thought this might warm the cockles of your heart: 

Manchin Wants Nuclear Tax Credit Extended In Biden’s Build Back Better Bill | OilPrice.com

Amazing! The Democrats actually have one rational, moderate politician left. Hope for you yet :)

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15 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

As has been explained to you many times the grid is completely capable now of charging a full national fleet of EV's at night.

Not in a very green manner Jay, but here is some more ammo for you anyway :)

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1 hour ago, Wombat One said:

Not in a very green manner Jay, but here is some more ammo for you anyway :)

Exactly why FF will be around for a very long time!

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(edited)

10 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It's number of vehicles x quantity of kilowatt hours for each subtracted from available electricity in the middle of the night. Simple. I guess it takes an economist to figure such things out.

The experts are not in agreement with you.

The grids in most areas are not up to the challenge of universal EV draw.

Edited by Ecocharger

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(edited)

The result of the Green climate panic in politics is to push up oil and fossil fuel prices which constitute 85% of available energy supplies, and drastically reduce the standard of living of poor Americans.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Could-Oil-Really-Reach-200.html

"Oil is about to post its fourth week of gains in a row, and the outlook remains bullish thanks to supply constraints and demand strength. But one hedge fund manager is even more bullish than that.

Doug King, head of the Merchant Commodity Fund, enjoyed record returns last year, gaining 74 percent in 2021 and beating its previous record of 59 percent set in 2014—another boom year for oil right before the bust. But now, King is expecting further gains in the price of oil, saying it could even reach $200 per barrel over the next five years.

“We believe in structural supply-side commodity inflation that most will not have ever seen -- the highest since the 1970s,” King told Bloomberg in an interview, adding, “Only OPEC will react to price metrics and they are undershooting every month.”

OPEC and its OPEC+ partners have been struggling to produce as much as it has agreed to under its production control agreement that came in response to the devastation that the pandemic wrought on the oil market in 2020. Only a few members of the extended cartel have the capacity to boost production in line with quotas while the rest are finding it hard, prompting worry about future oil supply in a strong demand situation.

“In practice, a lot less oil is making its way to the market,” the Merchant Commodity Fund wrote in its investor letter, as quoted by Bloomberg. “Its members are simply unable to return to pre-covid levels of output. This is all down to a lack of investment.”"

Edited by Ecocharger

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7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

What are you babbling about? 

Comparing apples to apples is comparing new cars to new cars. Are you sure you aren't a dumb?

Here is what Tesla is doing to BMW ICE in California:

image.png.f05f0ce1bd169323a4bd8458ef90df45.pngimage.png.bf4bbcf733ab1489fbbcd3162f2df885.png

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-3Q-21.pdf

 

With huge government intervention into the marketplace.

This is not an optimal social equilibrium.

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(edited)

The wild Green panic driving misguided government policy has resulted in huge upward pressure on oil prices.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Chinas-Attempt-To-Kill-The-Oil-Rally-Is-Bound-To-Fail.html

"It may seem somewhat counterintuitive for the oil market to shake off news regarding a potential Chinese SPR release, but that is exactly what has happened this week. With the mood still firmly bullish on the back of a weakening dollar, Libyan supply issues, and lower-than-expected OPEC+ output, the oil price rally was driven higher by reports of product inventories hitting multi-year lows. With refiners still wary about ramping up operations to full capacity, middle distillate stocks have become so scarce that backward action in the prompt month for both diesel and jet fuel rose to its highest level since September 2019. With stocks unlikely to see a swift replenishment, the global case for oil prices seems to be very bullish. As of Friday, the global benchmark Brent traded around $85 per barrel, whilst WTI was nearing the $83 per barrel mark. "

Edited by Ecocharger

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(edited)

On 1/14/2022 at 1:44 AM, Rob Plant said:

Thats total crap you have to compare the same like for like car ie a BMW ICE to a BMW EV. You said they are comparable cost base which they arent!

You are again trying to be clever by changing the goal posts. Tesla do not make ICE vehicles so you cannot compare this scenario with Tesla, and dont come back saying Tesla are a competitor of BMW because that wasnt the original point was it! You said EV's were at the same cost base as ICE, they arent currently.

I'm not against EV's but to claim they are at comparable costs to ICE is wrong or you yourself would be driving an EV surely????

Still waiting for those lovely pics of you in your new BMW EV (take the hat off though) 😉

That is asinine! A proper competitive product comparison is done by looking at the competition. When you look at one company's line up you are seeing how they want to rank their products for profit maximization, such as not cannibalising their other products. They don't want their products to compete with each other. It is irrelevant that Tesla does not make ICE.

You're the one who keeps moving the goal posts and claiming I said things I never did. The original claim was "EVs will never be cost-competitive with ICE for equivalent levels of comfort and cache." I will stress the "competitive" part of the claim. I only ever said they were cost-competitive.

Tesla EVs and BMW ICE are cost competitive in the same market segment and in California consumers are choosing Tesla over BMW by a ratio of 4 to 1. It is hard to get much more cost-competitive than that. Consumers see the value in the EV as being worth more than the difference in initial price, The EV has lower operating costs, many extras as standard and of course far more comfort and cachet.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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13 hours ago, Wombat One said:

Not in a very green manner Jay, but here is some more ammo for you anyway :)

A lot greener than oil and getting greener every day.

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8 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The experts are not in agreement with you.

The grids in most areas are not up to the challenge of universal EV draw.

They aren't experts, just people paid to write fake news that gullible people like you swallow because you can't do the calculations for yourself. 

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18 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

If you live in a cold region then your range will be even more compromised.

You are wrong about range anxiety, it is a big thing for most people in England and England is tiny compared to many states in the US . Yes 90% of the time you may be commuting and it works just fine, what about the other 10% ie when you go on vacation or you have a business meeting or you see family from farther away? This is what really puts people off.

Hybrids no problem I'm with you on that but a 200 mile range doesnt cut it for most.

Californians are famous for driving long distances on a whim and no one here talks about range anxiety. There are plenty of dc chargers for that 10% and as the EV market grows so do the number of chargers. 

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17 hours ago, Wombat One said:

Ron, I thought this might warm the cockles of your heart: 

Manchin Wants Nuclear Tax Credit Extended In Biden’s Build Back Better Bill | OilPrice.com

Amazing! The Democrats actually have one rational, moderate politician left. Hope for you yet :)

The green new deal has forced me to go for "all of the above". Let the greenies have plenty of time to do their best. I really don't know if nuclear can possibly meet the need in a timely manner though. Methane hydrates and all natural gas sources should be used. That includes coal seam and coal solids. 

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Being a former engineer for a large power company and having earned a Master of Science in Energy and the Environment, I had PV panels installed six years ago, with my estimated payback of 15-17 years, . . the right thing for an eco-freak to do. Before they could be installed, we acquired a VW e-Golf electric car. The savings in gasoline alone took the solar system payback down to 3 1/2 years. So, we added a used Tesla Model S, P85, and that took the payback down to less than three years, which means we now get free power for household and transportation.

But that is not all: We do not need to go to gas stations, we fuel up at home at night with cheap baseload power. During the daytime, the PV system turns our meter backwards powering the neighborhood with clean local power, which we trade for the stuff to be used that night. If we paid for transportation fuel, the VW would cost us 4 cents/mile to drive, and the Tesla would cost 5 cents/mile at California off-peak power prices.

No oil changes are a real treat along with no leaks. And since it has an electric motor, it needs NO ENGINE MAINTENANCE at all. We do not go "gas up", or get tune-ups or emissions checks, have no transmission about which to worry, no complicated machined parts needing care.

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14 minutes ago, gkam44 said:

Being a former engineer for a large power company and having earned a Master of Science in Energy and the Environment, I had PV panels installed six years ago, with my estimated payback of 15-17 years, . . the right thing for an eco-freak to do. Before they could be installed, we acquired a VW e-Golf electric car. The savings in gasoline alone took the solar system payback down to 3 1/2 years. So, we added a used Tesla Model S, P85, and that took the payback down to less than three years, which means we now get free power for household and transportation.

 

But that is not all: We do not need to go to gas stations, we fuel up at home at night with cheap baseload power. During the daytime, the PV system turns our meter backwards powering the neighborhood with clean local power, which we trade for the stuff to be used that night. If we paid for transportation fuel, the VW would cost us 4 cents/mile to drive, and the Tesla would cost 5 cents/mile at California off-peak power prices.

 

No oil changes are a real treat along with no leaks. And since it has an electric motor, it needs NO ENGINE MAINTENANCE at all. We do not go "gas up", or get tune-ups or emissions checks, have no transmission about which to worry, no complicated machined parts needing care.

 

I have in mind a similar plan, using PV panels, batteries and an F150 lightning.  In 2008 when my wife and I built a house, the economics on solar didn't work, but now they do, and we will implement that plan in the next few years when we move and build another house.  Even at the relatively low electric power costs that we have in Texas, the cost savings are too big to pass up, and the added luxury of being more or less 'off grid' for power is an additional bonus.  We will still have natural gas for heating, stove and water heating though - that is too cheap and efficient to pass up.  

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(edited)

On 1/13/2022 at 3:12 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

How dense can you get? The base is their previous year's sales. From 2020 to 2021 Tesla sales increased by 80%. 

On 1/14/2022 at 5:35 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

What are you babbling about? 

Comparing apples to apples is comparing new cars to new cars. Are you sure you aren't a dumb?

Here is what Tesla is doing to BMW ICE in California:

image.png.f05f0ce1bd169323a4bd8458ef90df45.pngimage.png.bf4bbcf733ab1489fbbcd3162f2df885.png

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-3Q-21.pdf

 

1. after the post on page 150, where tesla had delivered more than it produced, 80% increment might need more data verification. e.g. if one car was sold in 2019, and then 5 cars in 2020, it gives a figure of 80%, no? :S

 

2. Does the registration provided include sponsored cars to police departments and soldiers?O.o

On 1/14/2022 at 2:54 PM, Ecocharger said:

No, it just means that current EV adoption projections are at least two years optimistic and two years from now or less we will see if another postponement is necessary, which it will be.

By that time, the climate panic will be a thing of history.

There was an outstanding article in "Meditation and Health, issue 23rd, pg 57-62: a spiritual and ecological crisis".........

 

It highlighted reasons for the fall of great civilization e.g.Mayan, Loulan and the Atlantis, which might be related to our condition today.

 

In Maya civilization, over development and drastic increment of population caused shortage in food. To overcome this problem, massive areas of forest were cut, resting period in cultivation was shorten to increase productivity. Fertile soil was widely exposed and washed off by rain at ease. Productivity reduced. Bad cycle repeated to a point where famine occurred and they had to abandon the cities or wiped out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization#Postclassic_period_(c._950–1539_AD)

 

Are we not repeating what they had done?

 

Climate panic is there for a reason. It might not go away until problems are identified and solved.......... Or they will keep repeating until irrevocable/ irreparable damage is done.

 

Electric vehicles could be good initiative. However, reliance on grid, which is powered by fossil fuel, nuclear and hydropower, might create a cycle of foreseeable problems...

Although there might be not just one type of charging, be it home based solar panel or grid reliance, or running an EV. For examples, Solar cars are getting matured, hydrogen vehicles are running on the roads, mechanical cars without the need of battery or fuel could be realized not far from now, EVTOLs are licensed, etc................. A progressive stunt should be adopted, compared to a hastily imposed deed, no?

.image.png.2eb79a610e3db723c3693824fe68f4e4.png

 

Edited by specinho

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On 1/14/2022 at 5:39 AM, Wombat One said:

Ron, I thought this might warm the cockles of your heart: 

Manchin Wants Nuclear Tax Credit Extended In Biden’s Build Back Better Bill | OilPrice.com

Amazing! The Democrats actually have one rational, moderate politician left. Hope for you yet :)

The last tax credit for nuclear is still being built in GA? Like 10 billion over budget and 10 years late? Not done yet. Lol Check the numbers, been a couple of years since I looked. But this is GA Republicans so you know it’s a mess. 

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https://www.augustachronicle.com/story/news/2021/11/04/georgia-power-nuclear-reactors-plant-vogtle-cost-doubles-energy-costs/6286729001/
 

Read all about it. This is what happens when you combine energy production with Republicans. I mean there are different problems. Texas recently killed 57? Managing a winter storm. But hope springs eternal. Republican Buffett and Gates have a new nuke? Did those guys get recruited? 
Or did Obama mess with their heads killing pipelines and giving Buffet the rail cars. I bet there was a Russian in the mix somehow. Lol

 

 

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