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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Youre sooooo missing the point Andrei!

The point is any nation in the world can subcontract a part of a project to a third party and get the job done. It happens in most projects!

Take ITER for example which is utilising manufacturing from literally hundreds of foreign companies to get the project to completion. Its the same in oil & gas etc.

Yes. EDF is the lead contractor. Not fully out of the woods yet with respect to delivering the first two plants they started. The Finns also got them to pick up half of the cost overruns.

The next upcoming spectacle is going to be mating a standard-issue Rosatom plant with an odd collection of Western subcontractors. Possibly even Rolls-Royce

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanhikivi_Nuclear_Power_Plant

Apparently, such a Frankenplant already exists at a smaller scale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loviisa_Nuclear_Power_Plant

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Just now, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Revive the DeLorean! Electrical, if you want.

No point going back to the future!

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59 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

So this is wrong then???

France to build new nuclear reactors to meet climate goals

https://apnews.com/article/climate-business-europe-emmanuel-macron-environment-and-nature-541530ed81a84ef90860c9970f0a5517

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/macron-says-france-will-build-more-nuclear-energy-reactors-2021-11-09/

https://www.euronews.com/2021/11/10/france-vows-to-build-new-nuclear-reactors-to-meet-climate-goals

Yep France doesnt know how to build any new nucs LMAO

The original point was France are in a much stronger position than Germany as they have their nucs and can build new ones (whether they choose to outsource or not) so they can be energy independent whereas Germany is in the shit and reliant on Russia and Putin!

Well, eventually they'll be building some again. So far, Macron barely puffed up.

Interesting that. Nobody is forcing them to follow through with closures as if there was no crisis. Neither is "Putin" forcing anyone to buy Russian gas. It is more affordable than LNG. Obviously a tool of malign Russian influence, then!

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10 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

No point going back to the future!

Is stainless steel. Obviously inspired the Cybertruck. I wonder how many followers can Musk persuade to lick in subfreezing temperature. This is how many Russian kids learn about importance of collegiate consensus.

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2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

No I believe we were talking about recharging EV's not recharging specifically Tesla's via superfast chargers which I agree no household is ready for that which sort of makes the whole superfast charger redundant unless universally adopted at service stations. Some stations in the UK do have these already though.

Can't think of charging faster not being a desirable feature anytime soon.

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1 minute ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Can't think of charging faster not being a desirable feature anytime soon.

It is if you have to re-wire your house to do it and it costs you a fortune to do it.

No point just plug in overnight and hey presto your car is charged by the morning, no need for super fast charging at your home.

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As you can see we're all doomed! oh wait...

All palaeotemps.svg

It seems the earth has been 14 degrees C warmer and life continued to survive and evolve. The current increase is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. We are in fact in rather a cold period of the earth's history.

All_palaeotemps.svg

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10 hours ago, ronwagn said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/build-back-better-hit-wall-192523175.html

Build Back Better' Hit a Wall, but Climate Action Could Move Forward

 

"Biden wants to significantly cut the pollution generated by the United States, the country that has historically pumped the most planet-warming gasses into the atmosphere. He aims to reduce the nation’s greenhouse gas emissions at least 50% below 2005 levels by 2030, which is roughly the pace that SCIENTISTS SAY the whole world must follow to keep the Earth from warming more than 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit) since the Industrial Revolution. That’s the threshold beyond which SCIENTISTS SAY catastrophic events will become more frequent."

Again, the usual catch-phrases of the Green Dream, "scientists say", which is an unscientific term, used by Green propagandists to mislead the average Joe. Scientists do not "say" anything, that is not how science works.

Science is not a body of knowledge, but a methodology of testing alternative hypotheses. Science advances by DISPROVING testable hypotheses, in favor of null hypotheses. Those other hypotheses are in turn subjected to testing, but nothing is ever proven beyond a testing possibility.

Only the guy in the street who watches Hollywood movies believes that science is a settled body of knowledge. Anyone who promotes that vision is a dedicated propagandist.

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5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

It is if you have to re-wire your house to do it and it costs you a fortune to do it.

No point just plug in overnight and hey presto your car is charged by the morning, no need for super fast charging at your home.

For universal overnight charging, the neighborhood grid needs an upgrade in most locations, or else there is an overload for the system.

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

For universal overnight charging, the neighborhood grid needs an upgrade in most locations, or else there is an overload for the system.

what are you babbling about now? ....the grid is under-utilized from 9 PM to 7 AM and the grid is under utilized at peak time (9 AM to 7 PM) except in July and August. Grid handles peak demand of 650 and drops to a low of 420 in July ....... coupled with most utilities are installing smart meters ....so you will get a lower price for electrical use during the night...... The grid is more than capable of handling EV charging for the foreseeable future. Get back to us in 10 years with your fantasy that ...... the neighborhood grid needs an upgrade in most locations.......

 

average hourly U.S. electricity load during typical week

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, U.S. Hourly Electric Grid Monitor
Note: Data shown represent the average aggregate U.S. hourly load (Eastern Standard Time) by day of the week for the months indicated between 2015 and 2019.

Edited by notsonice

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1 hour ago, notsonice said:

what are you babbling about now? ....the grid is under-utilized from 9 PM to 7 AM and the grid is under utilized at peak time (9 AM to 7 PM) except in July and August. Grid handles peak demand of 650 and drops to a low of 420 in July ....... coupled with most utilities are installing smart meters ....so you will get a lower price for electrical use during the night...... The grid is more than capable of handling EV charging for the foreseeable future. Get back to us in 10 years with your fantasy that ...... the neighborhood grid needs an upgrade in most locations.......

 

average hourly U.S. electricity load during typical week

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, U.S. Hourly Electric Grid Monitor
Note: Data shown represent the average aggregate U.S. hourly load (Eastern Standard Time) by day of the week for the months indicated between 2015 and 2019.

What about the fact that wind and solar are either diminished or not produced at all during the night, in most cases. Battery or other backup is not yet much of a factor. 

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9 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Well, eventually they'll be building some again. So far, Macron barely puffed up.

Interesting that. Nobody is forcing them to follow through with closures as if there was no crisis. Neither is "Putin" forcing anyone to buy Russian gas. It is more affordable than LNG. Obviously a tool of malign Russian influence, then!

Yes it will be malign influence if Russia insists on being a bad actor rather than a good neighbor. He is harming his own people in the process. 

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12 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Sounds oddly familiar to your last wrong prediction.

*hint* more than a year has passed and you're still wrong, just not screaming as much.

It's time to eat crow like you promised.

Well gabby do plz enlighten me as to my prediction. This should be most interesting.

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25 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

What about the fact that wind and solar are either diminished or not produced at all during the night, in most cases. Battery or other backup is not yet much of a factor. 

In the short term (ex next 20 years or so) at least in North America it will be wind or solar during the day depending on location, then some mix of wind, nuclear, hydro and natural gas at night.  Especially in the Great Plains the wind doesn’t slow down that much at night - it’s still a pretty effective power source even then.

 

after that who knows.

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1 minute ago, Eric Gagen said:

In the short term (ex next 20 years or so) at least in North America it will be wind or solar during the day depending on location, then some mix of wind, nuclear, hydro and natural gas at night.  Especially in the Great Plains the wind doesn’t slow down that much at night - it’s still a pretty effective power source even then.

 

after that who knows.

I am feeling much more confident that the politicians are seeing the fallacy of trying to make the changes too fast now. They must realize that it will not help their party to succeed if they fail at the most basic needs of the populace. 

It is still concerning that they may not make the grid as "bullet proof" as it should be. I want backups to the backups. That can be done in many different ways with all the new and old technologies. I doubt it will be sufficiently considered. Individuals may have to help themselves for that level of security. 

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18 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

The US government doesn’t have enough oil in the Strategic Petroleim Reserves to influence prices in the long term like this - printing money or not.  It’s utter foolishness.  Save the SPR for a real supply emergency like a Russia starting a war or a giant volcanic eruption or a revolution in Saudi Arabia.   Don’t use it on fruitless attempts at manipulating the 6 week futures strip.  That’s not what it’s for.  

Strategic Petroleum Reserve (United States) - Wikipedia

Please read on the SPR and get back to me.  Crap crude (sour) makes up about half the reserves. It's what the producers send to the reserves as the "Powers that Be"  mandates it. So they ship the crap crude to fill up the reserves.  Here is another article to ponder,

U.S. Crude Exports Boom Amid Recovering Global Demand | OilPrice.com

 

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(edited)

18 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Strategic Petroleum Reserve (United States) - Wikipedia

Please read on the SPR and get back to me.  Crap crude (sour) makes up about half the reserves. It's what the producers send to the reserves as the "Powers that Be"  mandates it. So they ship the crap crude to fill up the reserves.  Here is another article to ponder,

U.S. Crude Exports Boom Amid Recovering Global Demand | OilPrice.com

 

That's not by accident - it's on purpose. Most of the SPR storage is along the gulf coast near Houston, and the Louisiana Gulf Coast refining complex.  The refineries there are particularly well suited for using sour crude - specifically Mayan Mexican sour, Canadian tar sands, or Venezuelan heavy.  The real issue is what I originally stated - the SPR isn't big enough to manipulate oil markets in general.  It simply can't be done.

Edited by Eric Gagen
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16 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

That's not by accident - it's on purpose. Most of the SPR storage is along the gulf coast near Houston, and the Louisiana Gulf Coast refining complex.  The refineries there are particularly well suited for using sour crude - specifically Mayan Mexican sour, Canadian tar sands, or Venezuelan heavy.  The real issue is what I originally stated - the SPR isn't big enough to manipulate oil markets in general.  It simply can't be done.

I can tell you I have/had back in 70's worked on pipelines that went to the SPR and the salt caves where we extracted and left empty the caves was by luck, not planned. Late 70's when I was rough-necking we would hit "salt domes" and go several hundred feet and lose all mud and pressure. But under the domes is good probability of striking oil soon. This happened many times when I worked on rigs all throughout the Permian until mid 80's when Reagans "windfall profits tax" pretty much killed the oil industry for many years. I can say that 10 years in the oil business I learned alot. I even worked at the Midland refinery for very short time, so yes I do undersand as they pretty much do the same as 40+ yrs ago.

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46 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

I can tell you I have/had back in 70's worked on pipelines that went to the SPR and the salt caves where we extracted and left empty the caves was by luck, not planned. Late 70's when I was rough-necking we would hit "salt domes" and go several hundred feet and lose all mud and pressure. But under the domes is good probability of striking oil soon. This happened many times when I worked on rigs all throughout the Permian until mid 80's when Reagans "windfall profits tax" pretty much killed the oil industry for many years. I can say that 10 years in the oil business I learned alot. I even worked at the Midland refinery for very short time, so yes I do undersand as they pretty much do the same as 40+ yrs ago.

Yeah definately having the domes was a case of good luck.  I haven’t worked the SPR but I did get to go visit the LOOP facility which is a very large privately owned salt dome facility near Houma LA with a similar setup.  I was visiting to inspect the facility to bid on some work but we didn’t get the contracts.  

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(edited)

4 hours ago, ronwagn said:

What about the fact that wind and solar are either diminished or not produced at all during the night, in most cases. Battery or other backup is not yet much of a factor. 

winds at night not producing ......hmmmmm it really looks like winds in December are best at Midnight and at its worst at midday...from the chart below...........the bigger problem is the variation from day to day as the chart below is for the whole 48 states real production. I will try to find a chart for July when it really matters the most

hourly electricity generation from wind, lower 48 states

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/expanded-view/electric_overview/US48/US48/GenerationByEnergySource-4/edit

 

peak in wind production is 1 to 3 in the morning in July every day and low point is 5 pm ....go figure

 

Edited by notsonice

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(edited)

5 hours ago, notsonice said:

what are you babbling about now? ....the grid is under-utilized from 9 PM to 7 AM and the grid is under utilized at peak time (9 AM to 7 PM) except in July and August. Grid handles peak demand of 650 and drops to a low of 420 in July ....... coupled with most utilities are installing smart meters ....so you will get a lower price for electrical use during the night...... The grid is more than capable of handling EV charging for the foreseeable future. Get back to us in 10 years with your fantasy that ...... the neighborhood grid needs an upgrade in most locations.......

 

average hourly U.S. electricity load during typical week

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, U.S. Hourly Electric Grid Monitor
Note: Data shown represent the average aggregate U.S. hourly load (Eastern Standard Time) by day of the week for the months indicated between 2015 and 2019.

No, your numbers do not add up.

There is overload with universal overnight charging.

The whole grid capacity needs to upgrade for most neighborhoods.

Edited by Ecocharger

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1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

No, your numbers do not add up.

There is overload with universal overnight charging.

do you think in 10 years EVs will be the only vehicles on the road??..... as I said get back to me in 10 years and tell me if the existing grid is not sufficient for 2032.......Now if you want to talk about 2042.......my crystal ball is not good for 20 years

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1 hour ago, notsonice said:

do you think in 10 years EVs will be the only vehicles on the road??..... as I said get back to me in 10 years and tell me if the existing grid is not sufficient for 2032.......Now if you want to talk about 2042.......my crystal ball is not good for 20 years

You don't have a crystal ball for tomorrow, let alone next year, 10 years, 20 years, or 50 years.

The way you climate doom gargling goons speak; hydrocarbons are the devil and should be outlawed immediately so your investments in renewables and EVs will make you rich. After languishing in the current system as middling employees or low level management, you need something to change so you don't end up needing your kids (if you have any) or government (lol) to take care of your elderly decline. 

It's not going to happen, by the way. Prolific and energy dense electric generation systems will be the only types that will rise to prominence. Nuclear, hydroelectric, and soon, geothermal will dominate the generation landscape with NG to bridge the gap. 

You can't seriously think that having to build at least 300% of needed generation capacity of wind and solar with corresponding battery backup will be economical.

For instance:

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=31032&src=email#tab2

EVs will exacerbate the renewable grid issues, not help solve it. 

https://labs.utdallas.edu/essl/projects/large-scale-vehicle-charging-problem/

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