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5 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

That may be the case in Europe, and it is the case in the US in older areas, but most newer construction in the US have 100, 150 or 200 amp panels. Charging is usually broken into 3 classifications:

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/advice/ev-charging-levels/

Class 1:  very slow, plugged into a 'normal' outlet, and you get what you get - basically only useful in emergencies, or if there are no better options.

Class 2: 40 or 80 amps current draw on a 50 or 100 amp circuit - typical for at home chargers - can charge up your vehicle in 6-12 hours.

Class 3: fast charging at a commercial charging station - this seems to be what you are envisioning a need for, but it's not necessary for home use - we tend to be at home a lot (even if only at night) and you can afford to spend more time charging. .

The huge difference between the US and Europe is the recent rate of population growth, and new housing construction.  Over 1/2 of the US housing stock has been constructed after 1994, and in areas which have seen the most population growth it is younger than that.  For example in my region,  about 90% of the homes are less than 20 years old, and all of them have 200 amp breaker boxes installed, primarily to be able to handle air conditioning loads.  

  All of these houses are already set up to draw enough power to charge EV's.  The ones which are not are older construction which tends to be in densely populated urban areas.  Not coincidentally, these are also the houses/areas which tend not to have personally owned parking anyway, so these areas and people are going to have public charging areas set up.  This is already taking place - for example many parking structures in my area have been retrofitted with EV charging stations which will charge your vehicle (for a fee of course) while you work or shop or whatever.  

At least from an infrastructure perspective, the US has the 'last mile' covered pretty well.  there will have to be adjustments in the demand curve for electricity, but that is far more workable.  Most EV charging takes place at night when general electricity demand tends to be low, so the system should be able to handle it reasonably well.  

Yes, but the 100+ amp panels sure come with distribution transformers of their own? There is no novelty in this. Has always been the principle distinction of your last mile. (I mean, the distribution transformers, however small, being out in front as close to the end customer as possible) Upstream one level, and you can use a higher distribution voltage of your own choosing already.

The European setup has the transformers as far back into back-end as possible. It is a cascade connected by virtual neutral that is always guaranteed to be the star point of the 3 phases. Eventually at least. Transformer to transformer links are peculiar, but last transformer before the customer has its star point connected to the ground.

Each setup has its own advantages and disadvantages, but the American one is obviously optimized for suburbia, with arbitrarily crappy but dedicated transformer perched in front of every hut. The European setup is for higher density housing. So, you've got an advantage of being able to introduce an out of whack powerful device anywhere you got a customer for it. Just give them a larger endpoint transformer and patch a high voltage line to it, which you are likely already doing.

European-like setup is very hierarchically structured. Logically, a tree of transformers from the trunk to smaller branches. With wire gauges following along, because most of it is at 240/400 mains voltage. And, to make it even more complicated, there are now some precisely timed devices that are actually transiently introduce serial linkages and loops, giving some kind of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_network

instead of an actual tree (DAG) It is basically a bunch of smaller trees connected by a global/innermost loop or a collection of smaller loops growing on a large tree. Those two views are known to be difficult to differentiate, even from the smart computer networking standpoint (lots of of historical networking protocols like Token Ring and FDDI tried to use it and were a bitch to debug) Here is actually, a better illustration of a star net that

1920px-Token_ring.svg.png

 

Ethernet, on the other hand, assumes a strictly tree-shaped network topology, no loops.

Your housing is only so new because the termites ate the previous batch. From a Russian standpoint, you and actually Canada are very southern, resort-like locales where such sloppy building practices are possible. Observe how the northernmost part of US-Canada border (where most Canadians live) happens to be at the same latitude as Crimea, which is as close to tropical as we've got. Elsewhere in Europe, housing also tends to survive for many generations. We've mostly got Soviet-style block housing, which is pretty much indestructible and usually removed for being too much of an eyesore. But yes, everybody living in their own separate hut and getting their own transformer makes it easy. You can get 1000 amp drop and open a muffler shop if local zoning allows, build a Killdozer or something. Is it American dream or not?

Now, check this out

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

It turns out, that the former Warshaw Pact countries lead the world in home ownership. Romania got 96%, a bunch got 90%, Russia got 89%. This is basically some kind of dowry all East Europeans got from the horrible, horrible Communist regime. Used to be free government housing, come capitalism, it got renamed into private property of whoever lived there. 2nd world, is like that :) US got 65%, UK 63%. Austria 55%, Germany 51%, Switzerland 41% and so on. Safe to say that the EU average is all in the East. Even more interestingly, the US average rate of home ownership is about as high now as it has ever been. But not by much 62% in the sixties. So, did the American dream of happy suburban living in your own hut  featuring sufficiently powerful mains hook up to drive your own air con, load an EV or possibly even both at once ever exist? We'll have to look at the Flintstones.

https://www.huduser.gov/periodicals/ushmc/summer94/summer94.html

Apparently, not quite. The oldest records they've got are for 1890-1920, where it was 42%-48% So, nobody really venturing into the wilderness, where anybody could just stake some land, build a Unabomber style log cabin and live happily ever after? Aha. Apparently, there was no real mortgage before 1940. Made for some 20% difference.

In light of this, what is the source of the population growth? The US fertility rate is something like 1.7 per woman, which is more than most of Europe, but still signifies shrinkage in population of indigenous Yankees, not growth. Supposedly, you need 2.2+ to grow. Thus immigration? In the spirit of the future American family having 1-2 children and a few suspicious Mexicans. Turns out, no. Mexico is doing just OK with 2.1 

Look for the entire Latin American + Caribbean region. An exponential drop off.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=ZJ

to an average of just over 2.0. So, they haven't got any people to spare. Still some upside in Guatemala, at 5.1 East Asia + Pacific? Even worse, at 1.8

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=Z4

The region includes India (3.0) and Afghanistan (6.8) BTW. In the spirit of people being the new oil the only region with a future appears to be Africa, with the rest of the world experiencing a severe underpopulation crisis of some kind.

I am telling you, it was the termites eating all the existing housing. Sometimes, nesting racoons. I don't expect the fresh arrivals from Guatemala to be very big on home ownership? The rate of which is nearly constant at around 65% Termites have been very good for the US economy. New housing every 20 years, new mortgages, new insurance services (is your Tesla torching your house covered?)  and a plethora of legal professionals equipping American couples with all-important offerings of restraining orders and bail bonds. All of which reflect very positive on the GDP!

Personally,I am only familiar with beautiful SF Bay Area. Best place ever. Certainly not much being built over there though. Everybody makes millions, but the housing costs even more. The supposedly most happening places in the South Bay, like Palo Alto and Mountain View still got no BART. All they managed in the last 20 year is a patch to SFO. Why do people so rich have to be so miserable?

My all time favorite place is the island of Alameda. Never gets too hot due to winds. Actually had some amazing property deals to be had just when the Navy base moved out.  Very quiet. Just now, thanks to Wiki did I find out about this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alameda_Terminal

Wow. Transcontinental railroad? Ferries going everywhere else? You have experienced much regress since 1855. Now, it is wilderness anywhere BART does not go. Actually, now that there is Wiki, I found the rest of the railroad.  It is not named anything anymore, but there is a named train

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Zephyr

Emeryville to Chicago, advertised as a scenic route. How weird is that? I've been 100% certain that Emeryville consists out of one significant through street and a BART stop. How the heck did they manage to not connect any of it to the transcontinental railroad they also had all along?!? If anybody knew, we'd go to Reno sometimes, I suppose. It's not really much of a transportation offering to go to Chicago in the presence of $50 direct flight, but it is not too bad for some historical track shared with freight, 79 mph is faster than car. I wonder how many idiots there are who would try driving when faced with a prospect of going from SF to Chicago. Unfortunately, never met anybody with any business in Chicago...

And now there is this

https://sanfranciscobayferry.com/alameda-seaplane-ferry-route

The rich bastards  who got into Alameda properties vacated by the Navy early on, figured it all out. They go to the very pit of tourist despair at Pier 41, from where you can get to the City in a few minutes using the iconic SF cable car! Which is actually a useful transportion device for as long as you don't stand in a huge line with the disciplined tourists, but hop on somewhere along the way.

Now, you need more and faster ones. Did you know that Boeing used to make hydrofoil ferry craft? Even more interestingly, they are still around, providing the service between.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_929

In this particular case, Boeing did a better job that Soviet competition, by letting the computer do the balancing. Who cares if it stalls? Not really a fun of this approach for aircraft, but fancy hydrodynamic modeling allowing a hydrofoil to come out of water by itself is not really worth the trouble.

Boeing apparently did not see a point in such a low margin business as fast ferries. There is only one next stage of rot after than called Lockheed, "there is no money in civilian aircraft"

Meanwhile, the Russian hydrofoil craft are back and looks like they got a clue. Brewing on a  300 passenger device that also appears dynamically balanced.

https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/334193-soviet-hydrofoils-history

How really different are those things from aircraft? Most of the ~400 devices USSR build in the 60-ties are still around. There is even one going between Vienna and Bratislava. The Chinese have a bunch on the Yangtze.

Forgive me, but I believe in Yankees discovering the profitability of common good when I see it. Assessment of a fast ferry from SRI, 1961

"The Economic Feasibility of Passenger Hydrofoil Craft in US Domestic and Foreign Commerce"

https://web.archive.org/web/20120301104231/http://ntlsearch.bts.gov/repository/record/tris/00026416.html

Based on this review, there was a commuter ferry service between New Jersey and NYC for a short period, and then it was tossed. Not profitable enough, I guess. Or not properly accessible by the means of GAAP?

How exactly you assess and charge, say, for a fast rail network? Most are not profitable in direct sense / government subsidized. How much is increasing the size of the hood available for disposable housing development worth? For example, ICE route Berlin - Leipzig takes 1:25. Leipzig is a suburb of Berlin, connected by commuter rail? Got to be worth some amount of extra productivity? So far, I've been able to demonstrate it having a clearly superior ride on the route Vienna-Munich as evidenced in highest numbers of Nazis shot in "Call of Duty" Better than flying business class, which is faster and costs less. Got about one guy to switch on the strength of the argument :)

To find something applicable for US, I suppose we can extrapolate the Alameda ferry experience to something similar. How about these guys?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiburon,_California

Population ~9,000, "unincorporated" and have no postal office of their own. Obviously asking for some startup incubators. This is Marin County across the Bay. Protected against start-upper hordes from East Bay by necessity to pay the fair twice, for Oakland Bay Bridge and the Golden Gate? Apparently, taken care off. $12.25 for starting from some East Bay BART. This is to Causality, who appears to be outright advertising for people come and live there.

http://www.marinhomelistings.com/2016/04/sausalito-just-side-bridge

Population 7,000, god damn. If you've never been to SF and ever wondered what lay beyond the Golden Gate, it is wilderness. And I mean it literally

https://www.nps.gov/goga/marin-headlands.htm

It is apparently protected by UNESCO specifically for so harmoniously complimenting the Golden Gate, a man-made artifact

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Biosphere_Network

Score! Biosphere preserve that is decidedly not natural. Thus, it is safe to say that the main purpose of the Golden Gate is being an advertising vehicle for itself. Being the most photographed structure in US and all, originally New Deal public works serving the purposes of providing some kind of employment.

Anyway, I was there about once and not actually sure it was Tiburon, but it was a place in Marin populated by rich hippies who haven't obviously noticed that Woodstock is over.  I ended up at their party somehow. Never found out who the proprietor of the property was, but the hippies said they reckon the place where they are is somebody's farm. Anyhow, no development at all going on. Now that I think about it, best reachable by boat across the Bay.

I suppose my opportunity to get into Marin county property development has passed up. I though I actually might know somebody who had a low occupancy waterfront property at the Berkeley Marina waterfront. This

http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/icsi/

Looks tentatively mothballed now. (The odd choice of original location is because they needed a place that is still in Berkeley, but the furthest possible distance away from the actual CS department). Maybe there are grants into hydrofoil ferry research left after SRI? Like if you make them autonomous or something.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Your distribution system is exactly same as mainland Europe. Only crappier. The difference is largely at the lowest residential level only, where you've got your ring circuits and oversized square sockets de-rated to 13A.  (these are related)

It is called "harmonized EU standards" on electrical thingamajigs

Speaking of thingamajigs, just how did the EU and the UK make it for 70 yrs. And now that green power is there its Kaput? 

Who peed in the punch bowl comes to mind. Just a thought.

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On 1/18/2022 at 2:44 PM, Eric Gagen said:

If I understand the Scottish plan, it is to have much more wind energy than they need for domestic purposes, and sell the rest to the European grid.  Given that it's excess will be very intermittent,  it will be interesting to see how it goes.  The interconnect to Norway should help a lot - basically use the excess to refill pumped storage when there is no immediate demand for sales.  That said, the interconnect isn't that big. 

I would think that Scotland would have plenty of potential new man made lakes to pump water into. Why not do that? Too green?

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3 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/build-back-better-hit-wall-192523175.html

Build Back Better' Hit a Wall, but Climate Action Could Move Forward

 

The green agenda is dead Ron, they will kick and scream for the next yr...at the same time. It's kaputski.. Watch China closely they were poised to supply the world with product, they will not go quietly into the night.

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Just now, Eyes Wide Open said:

The green agenda is dead Ron, they will kick and scream for the next yr...at the same time. It's kaputski.. Watch China closely they were poised to supply the world with product, they will not go quietly into the night.

 

1 minute ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

The green agenda is dead Ron, they will kick and scream for the next yr...at the same time. It's kaputski.. Watch China closely they were poised to supply the world with product, they will not go quietly into the night.

I am for all of the above now. Energy must be maximized, redundant, and cheap to sustain strong economies around the world. Especially in the Third World. 

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

The green agenda is dead Ron, they will kick and scream for the next yr...at the same time.

Sounds oddly familiar to your last wrong prediction.

*hint* more than a year has passed and you're still wrong, just not screaming as much.

It's time to eat crow like you promised.

Edited by TailingsPond
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13 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Alright, I'll keep it short for you. I know exactly who is building it. There is no point in reading any EDF corporate marketing materials claiming otherwise.

EDF is normally a utility company. The reactor's developer was this company

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva

which now apparently exists again, but has been nationalized by the French government. The part that designed and built reactors was spun off as

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framatome (75% EDF, 20% Mitsubishi)

Note that big part of the reason they went belly up in 2016 was that they failed to deliver. The company was bankrupt and in international arbitration over liabilities in 2016. If the Chinese hadn't figure out how to finish the stuff, they'd be toast.

Here, the pilot project they started in 2005.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olkiluoto_Nuclear_Power_Plant#Unit_3

which I suppose is getting finished just about now. Over a decade late and with a price tag of €11 bln instead of  €3. That's a relatively small one, good for 880MW

Bigger EWR in France itself. See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamanville_Nuclear_Power_Plant#Unit_3

Started 2007, supposed to be done 2012, but hoping for end of 2022 now. This one is cranked up to 1600 MW. €19 bln instead of €3.3 bln original sticker price.

Now, look at the variation the Chinese finished on their own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taishan_Nuclear_Power_Plant

2 blocks o' 1750 MW each, a world record! Started in 2008 and 2009, finished 2018.

The same year the Chinese finished, your project started, You think it is a coincidence? Here, for your convenience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley_Point_C_nuclear_power_station

Good for 2 × 1,630, and most astronomical cost overruns yet, whatever they are.

You simply assuming that somebody can simply pick up where they left 30 years ago? But you can't. Modern reactors are not like that anymore. No control rods good to go after 30 years for a few years more. Feedbacked devices requiring external actuation by electrical or mechanical means are no longer considered safe. See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_nuclear_safety

Well, I suppose those are GenIII, not GenIII+ (inherently Fukushima-safe) Design getting a bit outdated again, meanwhile.

So you agree with me now then that France can build new nucs!

Thanks for clearing that up!

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12 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

I know. You should have the same exact setup as continental Europe, but at a slightly higher voltage. 240V is your phase to neutral. You should have all 3 phases entering your place somewhere, so you should be using phase-2-phase of 240V x Sqrt[3] = 415V instead.

To recap, we were talking about recharging Tesla (significantly powerful devices) and doing it fast. You seem to be describing some kind of extension of a household socket? This goes best with an electric scooter perhaps.

There are specific gauges of wire which go with specific power levels.  Household socket wiring is pretty hopeless. Therefore, is the correct location to tap your most upstream distribution box. There, you've got all the phases and thickest wires (which BTW equates to lowest resistance) The only problem is that there is no official household-grade socket to connect anything multiphase in there, everything has to be wired shut. There are the huge and fugly IEC sockets they use on construction sites (yours are likely yellow and ours red) and possibly something specifically designed for EV chargers? Know nothing about those, but they tend to be for DC officially.

No I believe we were talking about recharging EV's not recharging specifically Tesla's via superfast chargers which I agree no household is ready for that which sort of makes the whole superfast charger redundant unless universally adopted at service stations. Some stations in the UK do have these already though.

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11 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Your distribution system is exactly same as mainland Europe. Only crappier. The difference is largely at the lowest residential level only, where you've got your ring circuits and oversized square sockets de-rated to 13A.  (these are related)

It is called "harmonized EU standards" on electrical thingamajigs

We apparently are talking about 2 different topics, you are talking about specifically superfast recharging of Teslas where Im talking about the standard recharging of all EV's via a normal household plug in which is already commonplace.

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11 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

I am right. The French (Areva NP) so didn't know that how to build more nukes, that they were being liquidated over the non-deliverables as recent as 2016 and sued for billions in damages. The Chinese are the only ones who got a European Pressurized Reactor project to complete thus far, by themselves, which was 2018. Also beat the world record on output power while they were at it. The same year, your project got started. and is obviously a derivative of the Chinese mod. EDF is the 75% owner of Areva's leftovers, which the French government dusted off and refloated by now.

Whether the French are capable of building the same GenII reactors they were building 30 years ago is immaterial. You MAY not build them anymore. Newer safety regs are supposed to take into account everything bad what happened between Chernobyl and Fukushima and make sure there is no way for that to happen again. There is some amount of R&D involved in raising up to the occasion, which the French significantly underestimated. Hey, Westinghouse did it twice, first as American and than as Japanese organization,

Youre sooooo missing the point Andrei!

The point is any nation in the world can subcontract a part of a project to a third party and get the job done. It happens in most projects!

Take ITER for example which is utilising manufacturing from literally hundreds of foreign companies to get the project to completion. Its the same in oil & gas etc.

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2 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

So you agree with me now then that France can build new nucs!

Thanks for clearing that up!

No, silly. The nuke should be no concern of yours anymore.  It's a complicated thing. The EDF and their Chinese friends are keeping it, anyway. You are getting guaranteed electricity prices out of it, that's all.

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(edited)

8 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

No, silly. The nuke should be no concern of yours anymore.  It's a complicated thing. The EDF and their Chinese friends are keeping it, anyway. You are getting guaranteed electricity prices out of it, that's all.

So this is wrong then???

France to build new nuclear reactors to meet climate goals

https://apnews.com/article/climate-business-europe-emmanuel-macron-environment-and-nature-541530ed81a84ef90860c9970f0a5517

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/macron-says-france-will-build-more-nuclear-energy-reactors-2021-11-09/

https://www.euronews.com/2021/11/10/france-vows-to-build-new-nuclear-reactors-to-meet-climate-goals

Yep France doesnt know how to build any new nucs LMAO

The original point was France are in a much stronger position than Germany as they have their nucs and can build new ones (whether they choose to outsource or not) so they can be energy independent whereas Germany is in the shit and reliant on Russia and Putin!

Edited by Rob Plant
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1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Youre sooooo missing the point Andrei!

The point is any nation in the world can subcontract a part of a project to a third party and get the job done. It happens in most projects!

Take ITER for example which is utilising manufacturing from literally hundreds of foreign companies to get the project to completion. Its the same in oil & gas etc.

Yes. EDF is the lead contractor. Not fully out of the woods yet with respect to delivering the first two plants they started. The Finns also got them to pick up half of the cost overruns.

The next upcoming spectacle is going to be mating a standard-issue Rosatom plant with an odd collection of Western subcontractors. Possibly even Rolls-Royce

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanhikivi_Nuclear_Power_Plant

Apparently, such a Frankenplant already exists at a smaller scale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loviisa_Nuclear_Power_Plant

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Just now, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Revive the DeLorean! Electrical, if you want.

No point going back to the future!

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59 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

So this is wrong then???

France to build new nuclear reactors to meet climate goals

https://apnews.com/article/climate-business-europe-emmanuel-macron-environment-and-nature-541530ed81a84ef90860c9970f0a5517

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/macron-says-france-will-build-more-nuclear-energy-reactors-2021-11-09/

https://www.euronews.com/2021/11/10/france-vows-to-build-new-nuclear-reactors-to-meet-climate-goals

Yep France doesnt know how to build any new nucs LMAO

The original point was France are in a much stronger position than Germany as they have their nucs and can build new ones (whether they choose to outsource or not) so they can be energy independent whereas Germany is in the shit and reliant on Russia and Putin!

Well, eventually they'll be building some again. So far, Macron barely puffed up.

Interesting that. Nobody is forcing them to follow through with closures as if there was no crisis. Neither is "Putin" forcing anyone to buy Russian gas. It is more affordable than LNG. Obviously a tool of malign Russian influence, then!

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10 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

No point going back to the future!

Is stainless steel. Obviously inspired the Cybertruck. I wonder how many followers can Musk persuade to lick in subfreezing temperature. This is how many Russian kids learn about importance of collegiate consensus.

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2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

No I believe we were talking about recharging EV's not recharging specifically Tesla's via superfast chargers which I agree no household is ready for that which sort of makes the whole superfast charger redundant unless universally adopted at service stations. Some stations in the UK do have these already though.

Can't think of charging faster not being a desirable feature anytime soon.

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1 minute ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Can't think of charging faster not being a desirable feature anytime soon.

It is if you have to re-wire your house to do it and it costs you a fortune to do it.

No point just plug in overnight and hey presto your car is charged by the morning, no need for super fast charging at your home.

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As you can see we're all doomed! oh wait...

All palaeotemps.svg

It seems the earth has been 14 degrees C warmer and life continued to survive and evolve. The current increase is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. We are in fact in rather a cold period of the earth's history.

All_palaeotemps.svg

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10 hours ago, ronwagn said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/build-back-better-hit-wall-192523175.html

Build Back Better' Hit a Wall, but Climate Action Could Move Forward

 

"Biden wants to significantly cut the pollution generated by the United States, the country that has historically pumped the most planet-warming gasses into the atmosphere. He aims to reduce the nation’s greenhouse gas emissions at least 50% below 2005 levels by 2030, which is roughly the pace that SCIENTISTS SAY the whole world must follow to keep the Earth from warming more than 1.5 degrees Celsius (2.7 degrees Fahrenheit) since the Industrial Revolution. That’s the threshold beyond which SCIENTISTS SAY catastrophic events will become more frequent."

Again, the usual catch-phrases of the Green Dream, "scientists say", which is an unscientific term, used by Green propagandists to mislead the average Joe. Scientists do not "say" anything, that is not how science works.

Science is not a body of knowledge, but a methodology of testing alternative hypotheses. Science advances by DISPROVING testable hypotheses, in favor of null hypotheses. Those other hypotheses are in turn subjected to testing, but nothing is ever proven beyond a testing possibility.

Only the guy in the street who watches Hollywood movies believes that science is a settled body of knowledge. Anyone who promotes that vision is a dedicated propagandist.

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5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

It is if you have to re-wire your house to do it and it costs you a fortune to do it.

No point just plug in overnight and hey presto your car is charged by the morning, no need for super fast charging at your home.

For universal overnight charging, the neighborhood grid needs an upgrade in most locations, or else there is an overload for the system.

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

For universal overnight charging, the neighborhood grid needs an upgrade in most locations, or else there is an overload for the system.

what are you babbling about now? ....the grid is under-utilized from 9 PM to 7 AM and the grid is under utilized at peak time (9 AM to 7 PM) except in July and August. Grid handles peak demand of 650 and drops to a low of 420 in July ....... coupled with most utilities are installing smart meters ....so you will get a lower price for electrical use during the night...... The grid is more than capable of handling EV charging for the foreseeable future. Get back to us in 10 years with your fantasy that ...... the neighborhood grid needs an upgrade in most locations.......

 

average hourly U.S. electricity load during typical week

Source: U.S. Energy Information Administration, U.S. Hourly Electric Grid Monitor
Note: Data shown represent the average aggregate U.S. hourly load (Eastern Standard Time) by day of the week for the months indicated between 2015 and 2019.

Edited by notsonice

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