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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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8 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

Sure but that rebuild is spread out over the next 30 years or so.  Even then only certain parts of some regions need that level of work.  Most recent construction in sunbelt states already has the distribution Infrastructure to support more or less universal EV charging, because it’s sized for peak air conditioning loads in summer, and nearly all the Southeast has already been updated to this standard for the same reason.  
 

The areas with the greatest need for real grid and distribution Infrastructure are in areas where the distribution system is already inadequate, like most of the northeast, and Pacific Northwest.  San Francisco and the greater Bay Area is a poster child for this problem.  It’s grid got built with the idea of being incredibly robust - - - for the purpose of making sure every home could use electric lights.  It’s already struggling to deal with day to day things  - most homes in the area already had to be upgraded once to run refrigerators.  Whatever upgrades and changes will need to be made to allow EV charging are approaching the point of being mandatory just to keep the current loads on the grid up and running.  

The grid is below universal EV home charging in the most populated areas of the country. That is where most of the people live.

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8 hours ago, Boat said:

Just like the wackos think Trump won the election. One man’s propaganda is another man’s truth. Like your one country taking on a NATO 20 countries is not silly and foolish. What you need to do is stop it. First,think.

No, lies are lies and truth is truth. There is only one truth and many lies. 

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6 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

No, lies are lies and truth is truth. There is only one truth and many lies. 

Outside some branches of math you can't prove a truth.  You can, however, disprove lies.

Trump will pay for his lies; even the supreme court judges he appointed voted against his attempt to hide the truth. 

What is he hiding?

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2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The grid is below universal EV home charging in the most populated areas of the country. That is where most of the people live.

The grid will be dramatically changing. That means it won’t be the same as now. Distributed solar on most homes and businesses may take decades to happen but happen it will. 
Your type pretends it has to be 100% and happen quickly and how hard it will be. Many of us woke gently explain we don’t want higher energy prices. We want infrastructure replaced as tech and efficiency makes it possible. To me, obviously the duck tail is solvable now in most areas. That’s all AC and all areas of the day except about 5 hrs. We waste billions covering spikes in demand. Batteries and renewables will build out rather quickly over the next few years to cover that daily evening surge. Goodbye afternoon peaker plants. 
As this is happen, which is a huge hundreds of billions project, tech will continue to work on base load because we know solar and batteries will not cover a 5 day storm. 

Your problem, as with most issues, you pretend to have no idea what the correct conversion even is. This is a Trump ploy for the ignorant, uneducated and non Google friends. How is the huge surge of Mongolian coal solving all of Chinas electricity problems going. 

Edited by Boat

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Each grid has important electricity demand but not critical. Grid operators need to become mush more sophisticated at being able to quickly turn off these businesses and factories during a shortage. In the case of Texas this part of management failed. That can’t happen. In the meantime, the risk of rolling blackouts should be a calculation of critical demand vrs nat gas power plants sitting idle. 
The bigger the pie of demand that is not critical, doesn't need nat gas backup. These are the conversations that should be taking place along with how many batteries would it take to cover critical infrastructure. Where is it and what’s the plan. 
I think our governor is more concerned with border hype and suppress the vote hype. It would be nice to dump the duck curve and save billions. Ask Elon to set up a battery factory just for Texas and get rolling.

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12 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Some may be on purpose...

One of the last big sell-offs from the reserve angered several refineries because the oil was so bad. I can't find a link now but I believe the government paid a settlement for the damage to the refineries' catalysts.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/exxon-and-others-say-u-s-government-sold-toxic-crude-oil-1.1243545

 

Excessive Vanadium was an issue with one shipment not that long ago IIRC.  Refineries can handle vanadium - it’s a well known contaminant in some crudes, but they thought this particular shipment didn’t have any so it wasn’t processed correctly to deal with it.  The article about H2S sounds odd, since it’s routinely tested for, and refineries deal with a lot of it on a regular basis.  

Edited by Eric Gagen
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9 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The grid is below universal EV home charging in the most populated areas of the country. That is where most of the people live.

I would say about 1/2 the population, but again they don’t have to be ready for universal EV charging NOW.  They have ~ 30 years to go before then.  In most of the deficient areas that’s plenty of time to gradually make changes.  There are only a few areas - again the Pacific Northwest, parts of the northeast and parts of the upper Midwest where the issues are going to require more than gradual changes over time.  Some of these areas have a lot of housing old enough that they had to be gradually adapted (or rebuilt) to account for indoor plumbing. Now they will be adapted (or rebuilt) to account for EV charging.  

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4 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

Excessive Vanadium IIRC.  Refineries can handle vanadium - it’s a well known contaminant in some crudes, but they thought this particular shipment didn’t have any so it wasn’t processed correctly to deal with it.  

Did you actually read the link Eric? It talks about H2s or Hydrogen Sulfide, which is extremly toxic. This is part of the "crap oil" I tried to explain earlier that is sent to the SPR and is counted as barrels required by "guvment" to the producers. 

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11 hours ago, Boat said:

The grid will be dramatically changing. That means it won’t be the same as now. Distributed solar on most homes and businesses may take decades to happen but happen it will. 
Your type pretends it has to be 100% and happen quickly and how hard it will be. Many of us woke gently explain we don’t want higher energy prices. We want infrastructure replaced as tech and efficiency makes it possible. To me, obviously the duck tail is solvable now in most areas. That’s all AC and all areas of the day except about 5 hrs. We waste billions covering spikes in demand. Batteries and renewables will build out rather quickly over the next few years to cover that daily evening surge. Goodbye afternoon peaker plants. 
As this is happen, which is a huge hundreds of billions project, tech will continue to work on base load because we know solar and batteries will not cover a 5 day storm. 

Your problem, as with most issues, you pretend to have no idea what the correct conversion even is. This is a Trump ploy for the ignorant, uneducated and non Google friends. How is the huge surge of Mongolian coal solving all of Chinas electricity problems going. 

It will take decades to rebuild the grid to handle the load of overnight universal recharging for EVs. By that time the true costs of EVs will become apparent as EVs ramp up in price beyond affordability for most Americans, and the Green Dream will the the Green Nightmare or rather the Green Memory.

  This madness will end sooner than you think.

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(edited)

3 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

I would say about 1/2 the population, but again they don’t have to be ready for universal EV charging NOW.  They have ~ 30 years to go before then.  In most of the deficient areas that’s plenty of time to gradually make changes.  There are only a few areas - again the Pacific Northwest, parts of the northeast and parts of the upper Midwest where the issues are going to require more than gradual changes over time.  Some of these areas have a lot of housing old enough that they had to be gradually adapted (or rebuilt) to account for indoor plumbing. Now they will be adapted (or rebuilt) to account for EV charging.  

The problem is rebuilding the supply system, not the household wiring. The supplies needed for a neighborhood universal EV overnight charging exceeds capacity for the infrastructure systems.

Fatal problems for the electrical infrastructure system begin when there is only a 25% market penetration, anything more requires a massive rebuild.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/how-many-electric-cars-can-the-grid-take-depends-on-your-neighborhood/

Edited by Ecocharger

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3 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Did you actually read the link Eric? It talks about H2s or Hydrogen Sulfide, which is extremly toxic. This is part of the "crap oil" I tried to explain earlier that is sent to the SPR and is counted as barrels required by "guvment" to the producers. 

I did - it was a minor quibble (which probably had something to do with bad metering instruments)  5,000 ppm is a lot of H2S if it's in gaseous form - enough that random people nearby will fall over and die so fast that they don't even know they were exposed. IF that had happened it would have been a huge deal,  but it seems highly unlikely that this was the case.   

 

H2S-Hydrogen-sulfide.jpg

 

The more likely scenario given that this was a facility that wasn't rated to handle H2S is that they had general purpose detectors to alert in the event that some H2S was detected, but which were not properly set up to determine an actual dosage.  This is very common, because it's better to be safe than sorry, and these types of detectors will also alert for the presence of H2SO4 (sulphuric acid) and a host of sulpher containing hydrocarbons - all of which are somewhat unpleasant to work with, and increase the expense of refining but none of which are remotely as dangerous as H2S gas.  The proper respose if these general purpose detectors have an alert is to get a response team with the proper instruments to do testing - a crude assay in the case of liquid hydrocarbons, or good quality H2S testing in the case of gaseous ones.  However this testing takes time and money, and it wasn't conducted in this case (both Exxon and the US government agree on this point in this case)  The US government paid a small fee to deal with the extra cost of refining the oil (since the sulfer content was above that perscribed in the sales contract) and a researcher wrote a paper discussing the possible sources of contamination (mixing with old crude, bacterial activity, etc.) 

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18 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The problem is rebuilding the supply system, not the household wiring. The supplies needed for a neighborhood universal EV overnight charging exceeds capacity for the systems.

That was part of the process of upgrading areas with older housing stock for modern plumbing in the late 19th and early 20th centuries too.   - they needed to have water service, sewer service, and household piping installed.  The requirements for electrical grid upgrades in our time are precisely comparable.  

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24 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

It will take decades to rebuild the grid to handle the load of overnight universal recharging for EVs. By that time the true costs of EVs will become apparent as EVs ramp up in price beyond affordability for most Americans, and the Green Dream will the the Green Nightmare or rather the Green Memory.

  This madness will end sooner than you think.

We have decades, so it looks like we agree that it will all happen more or less on an as needed basis (although obviously with a few bumps in the road here and there) with no crisis, panic or disaster of any sort for anyone. 

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(edited)

13 hours ago, Boat said:

The grid will be dramatically changing. That means it won’t be the same as now. Distributed solar on most homes and businesses may take decades to happen but happen it will. 
Your type pretends it has to be 100% and happen quickly and how hard it will be. Many of us woke gently explain we don’t want higher energy prices. We want infrastructure replaced as tech and efficiency makes it possible. To me, obviously the duck tail is solvable now in most areas. That’s all AC and all areas of the day except about 5 hrs. We waste billions covering spikes in demand. Batteries and renewables will build out rather quickly over the next few years to cover that daily evening surge. Goodbye afternoon peaker plants. 
As this is happen, which is a huge hundreds of billions project, tech will continue to work on base load because we know solar and batteries will not cover a 5 day storm. 

Your problem, as with most issues, you pretend to have no idea what the correct conversion even is. This is a Trump ploy for the ignorant, uneducated and non Google friends. How is the huge surge of Mongolian coal solving all of Chinas electricity problems going. 

I see your in-depth analysis is somewhat lacking. This cabal of actors all converging under the Democratic party has failed. Build back better has failed, and Boat writing vouchers/IOU'S will not work in the real world.

Monkey see Monkey Do has come to a end in Europe, fourtantley only small pockets in the US have been effected and sadly those citizens will pay the price. 

It is time for the Woken Ascension. Going quietly into the Dark Night would be in your own best interests.

 

269748419_2455284131269558_6098910331732223702_n.jpg

Edited by Eyes Wide Open
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1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

I see your in-depth analysis is somewhat lacking. This cabal of actors all converging under the Democratic party has failed. Build back better has failed, and Boat writing vouchers/IOU'S will not work in the real world.

Monkey see Monkey Do has come to a end in Europe, fourtantley only small pockets in the US have been effected and sadly those citizens will pay the price. 

It is time for the Woken Ascension. Going quietly into the Dark Night would be in your own best interests.

 

269748419_2455284131269558_6098910331732223702_n.jpg

A nice bit if dribble meaning nothing. Seems you practice at saying nothing meaningful. BTW it’s never night where there is flaring.

Edited by Boat

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34 minutes ago, Boat said:

A nice bit if dribble meaning nothing. Seems you practice at saying nothing meaningful. BTW it’s never night where there is flaring.

Dribble indeed, Awaken child to your Dark Visions.

Europe’s deepening energy crisis | Video

23 Dec 2021 07:20pm

Europe's energy crisis has deepened, with gas prices soaring to record highs after supply from a key Russian pipeline stopped amid plunging temperatures in Moscow. EU leaders have been criticised for failing to agree on joint action to soften the blow on consumers. From Berlin, Trent Murray takes a look at how households are coping.    

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/europes-deepening-energy-crisis-video-2398396

Europe's Governments Set to Spend Billions as Energy Crisis Deepens

September 23, 2021 11:24 AM
 

 

Russia says ‘short-sighted’ EU has only itself to blame for energy crisis

‘Incorrect planning, short-term energy policy is a headache for European politicians, which they are trying to pass on to others,’ says deputy PM.

 

Europe's energy crisis is making the market nervous. And analysts expect record-high prices to persist

PUBLISHED THU, SEP 16 2021 1:48 AM EDTUPDATED THU, SEP 16 2021 6:56 AM EDT
Edited by Eyes Wide Open
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1 hour ago, Boat said:

A nice bit if dribble meaning nothing. Seems you practice at saying nothing meaningful. BTW it’s never night where there is flaring.

Obviously you have no idea how the oil-field works to say "never" right where there is flaring. Shows your ignorance!

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2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Dribble indeed, Awaken child to your Dark Visions.

Europe’s deepening energy crisis | Video

23 Dec 2021 07:20pm

Europe's energy crisis has deepened, with gas prices soaring to record highs after supply from a key Russian pipeline stopped amid plunging temperatures in Moscow. EU leaders have been criticised for failing to agree on joint action to soften the blow on consumers. From Berlin, Trent Murray takes a look at how households are coping.    

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/watch/europes-deepening-energy-crisis-video-2398396

Europe's Governments Set to Spend Billions as Energy Crisis Deepens

September 23, 2021 11:24 AM
 

 

Russia says ‘short-sighted’ EU has only itself to blame for energy crisis

‘Incorrect planning, short-term energy policy is a headache for European politicians, which they are trying to pass on to others,’ says deputy PM.

 

Europe's energy crisis is making the market nervous. And analysts expect record-high prices to persist

PUBLISHED THU, SEP 16 2021 1:48 AM EDTUPDATED THU, SEP 16 2021 6:56 AM EDT

As if higher energy prices is that big a deal. It will just push investment dollars towards an electric even faster. This is not doom but happy days. These prices also  allow frackers to keep the US energy independant and keep growing. So far so good. Don’t worry, it won’t be long and we’ll be in the days of glut and low prices. 

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10 minutes ago, Boat said:

As if higher energy prices is that big a deal. It will just push investment dollars towards an electric even faster. This is not doom but happy days. These prices also  allow frackers to keep the US energy independant and keep growing. So far so good. Don’t worry, it won’t be long and we’ll be in the days of glut and low prices. 

A Contient going dark and you decry pricing, a question how many chit sandwiches can one consume in a lifetime? I suggest you have lost count long ago. 

Hmm I reckon that Is...!!!!!

Europe Plans to Say Nuclear Power and Natural Gas Are Green Investments

The draft proposal could help unleash a wave of investment, but critics say both sources of energy cause damage to the environment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/02/business/europe-green-investments-nuclear-natural-gas.html

 

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The Morocco - UK Power Project

 

The Xlinks Morocco-UK Power Project will be a new electricity generation facility entirely powered by solar and wind energy combined with a battery storage facility. Located in Morocco’s renewable energy rich region of Guelmim Oued Noun, it will cover an approximate area of 1,500km2 and will be connected exclusively to Great Britain via 3,800km HVDC sub-sea cables.

This “first of a kind” project will generate 10.5GW of zero carbon electricity from the sun and wind to deliver 3.6GW of reliable energy for an average of 20+ hours a day. This is enough to provide low-cost, clean power to over 7 million British homes by 2030.Once complete, the project will be capable of supplying 8 percent of Great Britain’s electricity needs.


The Morocco-UK Power Project will be powered by a wind and solar farm, approximately 1,500km2 in size, within Morocco’s Guelmim Oued Noun region. The wind farm will utilise the reliable Trade Winds in the region, which are driven by the temperature differential between the Atlantic Ocean and African continent. The windspeed at the generation site increases throughout the late afternoon and evening, ensuring power can be delivered to Britain during times of peak demand.

The project will benefit from a 20GWh/5GW battery facility, which will provide confidence that the power generated can be stored and delivered to Britain at the times when it is most needed. This will primarily be provided by Lithium-ion batteries like those used in electric cars, home battery systems and utility scale storage projects throughout the world.

Looks like I can find stuff happening in Europe from Texas in minutes. Why can’t you? 

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7 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

That was part of the process of upgrading areas with older housing stock for modern plumbing in the late 19th and early 20th centuries too.   - they needed to have water service, sewer service, and household piping installed.  The requirements for electrical grid upgrades in our time are precisely comparable.  

The expense for upgrading every urban electrical infrastructure is mind boggling. And probably prohibitive for anything above 25% of the vehicle stock.

But long before that number is reached, the costs of EVs inputs will put the new mode of personal transport beyond the reach of the average American family, so the issue is purely academic.

Edited by Ecocharger

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(edited)

American investment into energy is being derailed and misdirected by a mad philosophy unrelated to the realities of science. 

https://oilprice.com/Finance/the-Markets/New-ESG-Wave-Hits-Wall-With-Disinterested-Investors.html

"Another FT report from this month cited fund industry insiders as saying some managers were less than thrilled with the wave of ESG washing over the industry. According to the report, a growing number of passive funds are including ESG requirements for the companies they track because of the flow of investment into ESG-aligned businesses.

The trend has gathered so much momentum that some of Europe’s biggest ETF providers are changing the indices that some of their products track. These include iShares, BNP Paribas, and DWS, and they are causing some resentment among fund selectors as they cut off access to companies such as Shell.

According to one industry source the FT spoke to, this resentment is not a common sentiment, but it’s not unheard of, either. “I can understand that some investors are concerned when ETF promoters change the underlying indices of their ETFs since they may have a different investment objective than that of the new index,” Detlef Glow, a senior executive at Refinitiv Lipper, told the FT."

"The energy segment of the S&P 500 rose by a combined 46.3 percent last year, versus 24.3 percent for the overall index, according to data released in December. But that’s not all. The Energy Select Sector SPDR Fund gained 46.60 percent between January and mid-December 2021, and the SPDR S&P Oil & Gas Exploration & Production ETF recorded a massive 64.31-percent gain in the period. Clearly, not everybody likes ESG. But everybody likes good returns."

Edited by Ecocharger
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(edited)

Supply limitations for oil caused largely by ESG hectoring will push up oil prices going forward.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/OPECs-Shrinking-Capacity-Could-Send-Oil-Above-100.html

"Even OPEC officials admit that the OPEC+ group will struggle to increase supply as much as the nameplate monthly increase allows, and prices could spike to $100 a barrel, some officials from OPEC producers have recently told Reuters. 

Apart from Bank of America, other major Wall Street banks also predict that declining spare capacity and the inability of OPEC+ producers—except for just a few—to boost production will lead to triple-digit oil prices. 

Oil prices could hit $100 this year and rise to $105 per barrel in 2023 on the back of a “surprisingly large deficit” due to the milder and potentially briefer impact of Omicron on oil demand, Goldman Sachs said this week. Due to gas-to-oil substitution, supply disappointments, and stronger-than-expected demand in Q4 2021, OECD inventories are set to dip by the summer to their lowest levels since 2000, Goldman’s analysts note. Moreover, OPEC+ spare capacity is also set to decline to historically low levels of around 1.2 million bpd. 

“At $85/bbl, the market would remain at such critical levels, insufficient buffers relative to demand and supply volatilities, through 2023,” Goldman Sachs said in a note. 

JP Morgan, for its part, expects the falling spare capacity at OPEC+ to increase the risk premium in prices, and sees oil hitting $125 a barrel this year and $150 a barrel next year. "

Edited by Ecocharger

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10 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The expense for upgrading every urban electrical infrastructure is mind boggling. And probably prohibitive for anything above 25% of the vehicle stock.

But long before that number is reached, the costs of EVs inputs will put the new mode of personal transport beyond the reach of the average American family, so the issue is purely academic.

If even a skeptic like you thinks that there is room to run to 25% EV penetration before hitting limits of currrent infrastructure then things are looking good. 

Older housing stock will be upgraded in one of 4 ways

by current owners for their own use

prior to sale to enhance the property value

later/last by incentives from government to assist those in poverty to be able to get new automobiles.

Lastly some buildings in generally bad shape, or with ‘special problems’ like aluminum wiring or knob and tube junctions will be torn down and replaced. This is good, it allows obsolete housing stock to be cleared out.


As for the cost of new EVs the current rise in raw materials is a mix of a ‘bump in the road’ due to unexpected demand and a general rise caused by the inflation put inept has caused.  It’s not going to progress upward forever.

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What if autonomous EV’s become the cheapest transportation for foods and products. Your rented van will drive itself home and charge itself. In areas or on some roads your battery may charge while driving. Or maybe you hop on a charger for a quick 5 min boost that will get you 200 miles. Location, location, Hollywood might have more options than Afghanistan. Going forward millions of EV.s will be produced per year. By 2030 maybe 15-20 million per year, who knows. But change it will and the infrastructure to charge it. 
My biggest hope is electricity grid demand won’t detour shutting down coal plants. That’s more of a bigger picture item for the lungs of us all.

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