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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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53 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Causes of bird deaths

Footeab wont be happy 🤣

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6 hours ago, notsonice said:

Causes of bird deaths

What about just plain old age? Or natural diseases? I suspect that the numbers above would be dwarfed by natural causes.

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Like the election, like wind turbines being the problem in Texas, oil refinery diesel capacity, eagle deaths for gods sake. These boys are lying fools. Drill baby drill was my awakening and they haven’t been right since. Who pays for this crap and how did it take over the Republican Party. They can rattle off 20 lies, gripe about how Dems support cutting off junk and attaching junk and hanging out in bathrooms. Then mention border jumping rapists are coming for your guns and the lies stick. Amazing times we live in. Like the dime store novel come alive again. 

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(edited)

3 hours ago, Boat said:

Like the election, like wind turbines being the problem in Texas, oil refinery diesel capacity, eagle deaths for gods sake. These boys are lying fools. Drill baby drill was my awakening and they haven’t been right since. Who pays for this crap and how did it take over the Republican Party. They can rattle off 20 lies, gripe about how Dems support cutting off junk and attaching junk and hanging out in bathrooms. Then mention border jumping rapists are coming for your guns and the lies stick. Amazing times we live in. Like the dime store novel come alive again. 

The problem is that the Demos have attached themselves to a defective climate science whose political rhetoric threatens the American economy. That is the height of irresponsibility. 

Is it worth supporting Biden & Co. and destroying the economy just to make a social statement?

Edited by Ecocharger

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On 9/1/2022 at 4:19 AM, TailingsPond said:

Smart enough to avoid a fast car but dumb enough to fly into windmill?

 

not too sure if it is correct to say birds memorize their way in an internal navigating system. The structure of their eyes are basically located on the side for 120' view? Therefore, any change in their path or former habitat, particularly head on path, they might not be able to detect? Wind farm posts a hazard shall it is built in their path unintentionally........

The sound from windmill might be odd in the ears of birds but they might not know what would that be, distracted and.........

on a side note........ Birds that fly into glass windows/ doors and knocked off unconscious, probably not doing it out of stupidity but lured by the reflection of sky, trees and stuff resembling natural settings nearby.......... Could some birds be lured into wind turbine mistaken water fountain or fall they took a dip in?

and there is a latest hazard that could affect their judgement and ability to navigate i.e. earthquake..... that probably could shake the birds down.....

image.png.57e45ecd3f2c88776ba6797091d28be9.png

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On 9/2/2022 at 4:50 PM, Michael Sanches said:

So are analgesics, antihistamines, antibiotics, antibacterials, rectal suppositories, cough syrups, lubricants, creams, ointments, salves, and many gels.

What is your point, DDT, analgesics, antihistamines, antibiotics, antibacterials, rectal suppositories, cough syrups, lubricants, creams, ointments, salves, and many gels are bad? I disagree.

the mention of DDT was probably related to the death and near extinction of eagle in the US back in the 60's. DDT was banned, population of eagle has since increased and now, to a number where food for them in natural ground is probably not enough..... 'o' 'n'

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On 9/2/2022 at 7:50 AM, Ecocharger said:

You have to look at the big picture, not just short-term fluctuations.

I refuse to believe that the men in charge will engineer a complete recession, they are not that stupid.

Of course there will be a severe recession. Doesn't mean oil prices will fall though. Indeed, the record oil price of $147/barrel was set during the depths of the GFC (Global Financial Crisis which Americans strangely refer to as the Great Recession) back in 2009. Expect a repeat. Recessions occur on average every 7 years. So the next one is long overdue and will be the "greatest" in history. It's the debt, stupid! 2023 is not going to be pretty. Every economist such as myself knows this. What is even worse, is that inflation will remain "sticky", which means stagflation is on it's way. You are stupid if you think there is such a thing as "the men in charge". They are not magicians and cannot change the laws of economics. 

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On 9/2/2022 at 2:44 AM, Rob Plant said:

Footeab wont be happy 🤣

i am very happy about more, pulled from arse numbers, dumping them on a graph pretending this is reality by my adversaries.  Anyone with a brain would be delighted as such trite hubris as it makes those posting such hubris laughable. 

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19 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

i am very happy about more, pulled from arse numbers, dumping them on a graph pretending this is reality by my adversaries.  Anyone with a brain would be delighted as such trite hubris as it makes those posting such hubris laughable. 

Take it up with the US Wildlife and Fisheries, which is where Rob Plant got the numbers. They are from the last column of the table here:

https://www.fws.gov/library/collections/threats-birds

One side of the debate on this discussion board does a very good job finding and posting numbers from actual research to support their points--the other side, not so much.

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25 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

i am very happy about more, pulled from arse numbers, dumping them on a graph pretending this is reality by my adversaries.  Anyone with a brain would be delighted as such trite hubris as it makes those posting such hubris laughable. 

I typed "bird deaths by cause" in a Google search, and the site I included in my last post was the very first result.

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On 9/2/2022 at 3:44 AM, Michael Sanches said:

I drive an ICE car and live in an apartment. So, I won't be getting an eV. I would like to get a hybrid next time. But, my niece has a Prius and has 2 catalytic converters stolen in the last couple of years. As long as the greens demand those who steal catalytic converters pay no bail and serve very little time, I will stick with an ICE car.

I think that all newer ICE vehicles have catalytic converters. I agree that hybrids make sense for local driving. I have some movable solar panels and a solar generator. I could add more solar panels and charge it for free. I would only do that if my electrical bills go up, which I am afraid they will. Solar panels seem way too expensive right now to me. Maybe someone can tell me where to get those famous low priced solar panels that are suitable for my roof. 

I don't understand why solar panels are not sold with all the information and equipment needed to install them simply and securely to your roof or other structure. Also a good warranty and a way to keep them from being stolen off the roof etc. They should have large alarms that go off when tampered with. 

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20 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The problem is that the Demos have attached themselves to a defective climate science whose political rhetoric threatens the American economy. That is the height of irresponsibility. 

Is it worth supporting Biden & Co. and destroying the economy just to make a social statement?

Good grief, the American Economy is fine other than our war debt. The biggest problem is hot weather causing droughts. Trumps no mask solution is still messing up supply chains. Republicans have laughably got little right since Reagan. Except for GW Sr. He did great. I voted for him twice. So far Sleepy has done fine. There is money to plug 800 wells in Texas. A pet peeve of mine. He’s plugging wells in 25 states spending over 1/2 trillion. I would spend that 390 billion a little differently but an overall boost to clean the air in big cities is needed badly. This will save and extend lives. 

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(edited)

On 8/30/2022 at 10:27 PM, Ecocharger said:

Per capita doesn't count, especially if you have billions of people in your country.

What matters is total responsibility per nation.

The truth about American two faced hypocrisy 

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSRfGDrN8/

 

Edited by Hotone
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On 9/2/2022 at 2:44 AM, Michael Sanches said:

I drive an ICE car and live in an apartment. So, I won't be getting an eV. I would like to get a hybrid next time. But, my niece has a Prius and has 2 catalytic converters stolen in the last couple of years. As long as the greens demand those who steal catalytic converters pay no bail and serve very little time, I will stick with an ICE car.

That makes no sense.

First off it is the ICE side of the hybrid that needs a catalytic converter (and it's rare/expensive elements worth stealing).  Only a full EV will have no cat.

Second why would "greens" demand low punishment for theft of a device that reduces pollution?  Backwards logic.

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2 hours ago, Hotone said:

The truth about American two faced hypocrisy 

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSRfGDrN8/

 

Nothing but socialist bullshit. It always fails and brings dictatorship, poverty and pain. An autocracy of wealthy communists at the top. I hope that South and Central Americans, Africans, and other Third World Areas have learned the lessons of the past. 

China has been the most brutal and racist colonialist of all time. They still rule over all of their colonies with a cruel iron fist. The USSR was just as bad. America has been been kind over the long term, and Native Americans have control of large swaths of land. 

The Uighurs and religious suffer greatly.  Crosses are now removed from and they are strictly controlled by communists. The Falun Gong are often killed after their organs are removed for transplants. 

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On 9/2/2022 at 3:50 AM, notsonice said:

Causes of bird deaths

Sources? 

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(edited)

9 hours ago, Boat said:

Good grief, the American Economy is fine other than our war debt. The biggest problem is hot weather causing droughts. Trumps no mask solution is still messing up supply chains. Republicans have laughably got little right since Reagan. Except for GW Sr. He did great. I voted for him twice. So far Sleepy has done fine. There is money to plug 800 wells in Texas. A pet peeve of mine. He’s plugging wells in 25 states spending over 1/2 trillion. I would spend that 390 billion a little differently but an overall boost to clean the air in big cities is needed badly. This will save and extend lives. 

Plugging wells will be the least of our problems if Biden & Co. are allowed to run amok without restraint.

Here is a preview of what can be expected if the climate alarmist agenda is allowed another run at governing this country. The American economy will be essentially shut down.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Worlds-Second-Largest-Steelmaker-Closes-European-Plant.html

"In Germany, one of every six industrial companies feels forced to reduce production due to high energy prices, a survey by the Association of German Chambers of Industry and Commerce, DIHK, showed at the end of July. Nearly a quarter of the companies forced to reduce production had already done so by end-July, and another one-quarter are in the process of scaling back production due to sky-high energy prices, according to the survey of 3,500 companies from all sectors and regions in Germany. 

The energy-intensive industries and firms are particularly hit, as 32 percent of the companies plan to or have already started to reduce production and even halt entire production lines, the DIHK survey showed.  "

Edited by Ecocharger
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4 minutes ago, Polyphia said:

Again, the third column of the table here:

https://www.fws.gov/library/collections/threats-birds

Sigh...

They pull the numbers out of their ass... Let me give you an example: https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Loss_et_al._2013-Impacts_Outdoor_Cats.pdf

This study supposedly is based on gobs of other studies right?  Right?  Lets look at one of their "studies" used... (later incorporated as a tabulated "study" https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Blancher-2013-Estimated-number-of-birds-killed-by-domestic-cats-in-Canada.pdf

Lets just quote them shall we? Let me make really BIG the words.

"In total, cats are estimated to kill between 100 and 350 million birds per year in Canada (> 95% of estimates were in this range), with the majority likely to be killed by feral cats. This range of estimates is based on surveys indicating that Canadians own about 8.5 million pet cats, a rough approximation of 1.4 to 4.2 million feral cats, and literature values of predation rates from studies conducted elsewhere. Reliability of the total kill estimate would be improved most by better knowledge of feral cat numbers and diet in Canada, though any data on birds killed by cats in Canada would be helpful.

Ah yes... a wonderful circle jerk... A study which uses another study which uses another study and said studies "rates" of ferral cats is NOWHERE to be found except they pulled a number out of thin air.  Next they pulled out of THIN AIR predation rates for said non existent ferral cat population... and then this so called "study" has the gall to admit ANY data would be helpful... because... they have NONE AT ALL. 

All one has to do is look at their "data"... "estimation of feral cats in Winnipeg"... Look it up... done by a SINGLE cat woman... No ferral cats were ever counted...

This "estimation" so called "study" then gets tabulated as a "study" in their tables of "studies" to make it sound as if it is actually "scientific"...

These numbers are then blared to the world as facts... when in reality it is pulled from their rectum. 

All one has to do is look at bird electrocution death estimations... You will never see an actual study of anyone doing the field work under power lines and counting the number of bird deaths. 

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1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Sigh...

They pull the numbers out of their ass... Let me give you an example: https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Loss_et_al._2013-Impacts_Outdoor_Cats.pdf

This study supposedly is based on gobs of other studies right?  Right?  Lets look at one of their "studies" used... (later incorporated as a tabulated "study" https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Blancher-2013-Estimated-number-of-birds-killed-by-domestic-cats-in-Canada.pdf

Lets just quote them shall we? Let me make really BIG the words.

"In total, cats are estimated to kill between 100 and 350 million birds per year in Canada (> 95% of estimates were in this range), with the majority likely to be killed by feral cats. This range of estimates is based on surveys indicating that Canadians own about 8.5 million pet cats, a rough approximation of 1.4 to 4.2 million feral cats, and literature values of predation rates from studies conducted elsewhere. Reliability of the total kill estimate would be improved most by better knowledge of feral cat numbers and diet in Canada, though any data on birds killed by cats in Canada would be helpful.

Ah yes... a wonderful circle jerk... A study which uses another study which uses another study and said studies "rates" of ferral cats is NOWHERE to be found except they pulled a number out of thin air.  Next they pulled out of THIN AIR predation rates for said non existent ferral cat population... and then this so called "study" has the gall to admit ANY data would be helpful... because... they have NONE AT ALL. 

All one has to do is look at their "data"... "estimation of feral cats in Winnipeg"... Look it up... done by a SINGLE cat woman... No ferral cats were ever counted...

This "estimation" so called "study" then gets tabulated as a "study" in their tables of "studies" to make it sound as if it is actually "scientific"...

These numbers are then blared to the world as facts... when in reality it is pulled from their rectum. 

All one has to do is look at bird electrocution death estimations... You will never see an actual study of anyone doing the field work under power lines and counting the number of bird deaths. 

I have seen several dead squirrels under my power lines and a couple of dead birds, but that is over 15 years. I think road kill is the biggest problem but don't want drivers to do anything except watch out and brake in a straight line! Swerving can cost human health and life. I have killed a couple of deer and a car but not me. 

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(edited)

2 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Sigh...

They pull the numbers out of their ass

Like the windmill death numbers fossil humans post. 

Cats are present in huge numbers and have been around much longer, and therefore the estimates are likely much better than for windmills.

The author did read a lot of past papers so wasn't pulling estimates out of their ass.


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SAS Institute. 2003. PROC GLM, General Linear Models procedure. SAS Institute Inc., Cary, North Carolina, USA.

Skerritt, J. 2011. 50,000 feral cats in the city. Bylaws to deal with burgeoning problem ‘antiquated’. Winnipeg Free Press, 3 April. [online] URL: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/50000-feral-cats-in-the-city-119139904.html?path=/local&id=119139904&sortBy=oldest

Statistics Canada. 2007. 2006 Community profiles. 2006 Census. Catalogue no. 92-591-XWE. Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Released March 13, 2007. [online] URL: http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/index.cfm?Lang=E

Statistics Canada. 2008. Farm population and total population by rural and urban population, by province, (2001 and 2006 Census of Agriculture and Census of Population). Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. [online] URL: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/agrc42a-eng.htm

Statistics Canada. 2011a. Does Statistics Canada collect this information? Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. [online] URL: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/help-aide/collection-eng.htm

Statistics Canada. 2011b. Canada’s population clock. Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. [online] URL: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/ig-gi/pop-ca-eng.htm

Stray Cats a Big Problem. 2008. Windsor Star, 17 July. [online] URL: http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=4071c08b-415b-49a9-9804-c01a6d610518

Sullivan, S. 2011. Dog’s life for tens of thousands of feral cats in Vancouver. Spay and neuter program to raise awareness of issue. Province, 20 February.

Thomas, R. L., M. D. E. Fellowes, and P. J. Baker. 2012. Spatio-temporal variation in predation by urban domestic cats (Felis catus) and the acceptability of possible management actions in the UK. PLoS ONE 7(11):e49369. http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0049369

THS Feral Cat Clinics Coming in May. 2011. Toronto News24, Retrieved 14 May.

Tindal, L. 2010. There’s more than one way to save a feral cat. McGill Tribune, 12 October.

Toner, G. C. 1956. House cat predation on small animals. Journal of Mammalogy 37:119. http://dx.doi.org/10.2307/1375546

Tschanz, B., D. Hegglin, S. Gloor, and F. Bontadina. 2011. Hunters and non-hunters: skewed predation rate by domestic cats in a rural village. European Journal of Wildlife Research 57:597-602. http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s10344-010-0470-1

U.S. Census Bureau. 2011. U.S. POPClock Projection. U.S. Census Bureau, Washington, D.C., USA. [online] URL: http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

van Heezik, Y., A. Smyth, A. Adams, and J. Gordon. 2010. Do domestic cats impose an unsustainable harvest on urban bird populations? Biological Conservation 143:121-130. http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.biocon.2009.09.013

Winnipeg’s Feral Cat Population Grows. 2011. Global News, 25 February.

Winnipeg’s Stray-Cat Population Out of Control. 2009. Winnipeg Free Press, 7 March.

Winter, L. 2004. Trap-neuter-release programs: the reality and the impacts. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 225:1369-1376. http://dx.doi.org/10.2460/javma.2004.225.1369

Winter, L., and G. E. Wallace. 2006. Impacts of feral and free-ranging cats on bird species of conservation concern: a five-state review of New York, New Jersey, Florida, California, and Hawaii. American Bird Conservancy, The Plains, Virginia, USA. [online] URL: http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/NFWF.pdf

Wong, I. W., D. K. McNicol, P. Fong, D. Fillman, J. Neysmith, and R. Russell. 2003. The WILDSPACETM decision support system. Environmental Modelling & Software 18:521-530. http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S1364-8152(03)00027-6

Woods, M., R. A. McDonald, and S. Harris. 2003. Predation of wildlife by domestic cats (Felis catus) in Great Britain. Mammal Review 33:174-186. http://dx.doi.org/10.1046/j.1365-2907.2003.00017.x
 

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11 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Like the windmill death numbers fossil humans post. 

Cats are present in huge numbers and have been around much longer, and therefore the estimates are likely much better than for windmills.

The author did read a lot of past papers so wasn't pulling estimates out of their ass.


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SAS Institute. 2003. PROC GLM, General Linear Models procedure. SAS Institute Inc., Cary, North Carolina, USA.

Skerritt, J. 2011. 50,000 feral cats in the city. Bylaws to deal with burgeoning problem ‘antiquated’. Winnipeg Free Press, 3 April. [online] URL: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/50000-feral-cats-in-the-city-119139904.html?path=/local&id=119139904&sortBy=oldest

Statistics Canada. 2007. 2006 Community profiles. 2006 Census. Catalogue no. 92-591-XWE. Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Released March 13, 2007. [online] URL: http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/index.cfm?Lang=E

Statistics Canada. 2008. Farm population and total population by rural and urban population, by province, (2001 and 2006 Census of Agriculture and Census of Population). Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. [online] URL: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/agrc42a-eng.htm

Statistics Canada. 2011a. Does Statistics Canada collect this information? Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. [online] URL: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/help-aide/collection-eng.htm

Statistics Canada. 2011b. Canada’s population clock. Statistics Canada, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. [online] URL: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/ig-gi/pop-ca-eng.htm

Stray Cats a Big Problem. 2008. Windsor Star, 17 July. [online] URL: http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/story.html?id=4071c08b-415b-49a9-9804-c01a6d610518

Sullivan, S. 2011. Dog’s life for tens of thousands of feral cats in Vancouver. Spay and neuter program to raise awareness of issue. Province, 20 February.

Thomas, R. L., M. D. E. Fellowes, and P. J. Baker. 2012. Spatio-temporal variation in predation by urban domestic cats (Felis catus) and the acceptability of possible management actions in the UK. PLoS ONE 7(11):e49369. http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0049369

THS Feral Cat Clinics Coming in May. 2011. Toronto News24, Retrieved 14 May.

Tindal, L. 2010. There’s more than one way to save a feral cat. McGill Tribune, 12 October.

Toner, G. C. 1956. House cat predation on small animals. Journal of Mammalogy 37:119. http://dx.doi.org/10.2307/1375546

Tschanz, B., D. Hegglin, S. Gloor, and F. Bontadina. 2011. Hunters and non-hunters: skewed predation rate by domestic cats in a rural village. European Journal of Wildlife Research 57:597-602. http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s10344-010-0470-1

U.S. Census Bureau. 2011. U.S. POPClock Projection. U.S. Census Bureau, Washington, D.C., USA. [online] URL: http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

van Heezik, Y., A. Smyth, A. Adams, and J. Gordon. 2010. Do domestic cats impose an unsustainable harvest on urban bird populations? Biological Conservation 143:121-130. http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.biocon.2009.09.013

Winnipeg’s Feral Cat Population Grows. 2011. Global News, 25 February.

Winnipeg’s Stray-Cat Population Out of Control. 2009. Winnipeg Free Press, 7 March.

Winter, L. 2004. Trap-neuter-release programs: the reality and the impacts. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 225:1369-1376. http://dx.doi.org/10.2460/javma.2004.225.1369

Winter, L., and G. E. Wallace. 2006. Impacts of feral and free-ranging cats on bird species of conservation concern: a five-state review of New York, New Jersey, Florida, California, and Hawaii. American Bird Conservancy, The Plains, Virginia, USA. [online] URL: http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/NFWF.pdf

Wong, I. W., D. K. McNicol, P. Fong, D. Fillman, J. Neysmith, and R. Russell. 2003. The WILDSPACETM decision support system. Environmental Modelling & Software 18:521-530. http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S1364-8152(03)00027-6

Woods, M., R. A. McDonald, and S. Harris. 2003. Predation of wildlife by domestic cats (Felis catus) in Great Britain. Mammal Review 33:174-186. http://dx.doi.org/10.1046/j.1365-2907.2003.00017.x
 

And you didn't read ANY of them.  If you had, you wouldn't, that would disabuse you of your naivete.... you would know they are all "approximations"... never any REAL world COUNTING of actual birds or ferral cats in the field.  What is beyond HILARIOUS is you even quoted the Winnipeg article pushed by a single wild cat rescue woman as an actual reference...ROFL!!!

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