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13 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Thats interesting on the level of uptake @Jay McKinsey

My questions are is a payload of 2000lbs enough for most pickup users in the US? and if it is what impact would that have on the mileage before recharging?

The same applies for towing.

I'm guessing by the level of uptake that most consumers are happy but it would be interesting how quickly the battery gets drained when carrying or towing load, especially when the aircon is on. The recharge rate of 10 hours is just about OK but if on 32A its 14 hours which isnt OK, not sure what the standard is in the US???

 

this is what an F150 looks like these days . It is a rare thing to find a newer long bed these days. Hard to squeeze in 2000 lbs in the shortbed. You cannot even haul a sheet of plywood. For the most part suburbanites buy them and drive them back and forth to work never hauling anything or towing anything. My guess at least 75 percent of all F150s never see real work. If you need one for hauling or going to jobsites an EV would be a bad choice. Why do people buy the 4 door shortbeds? Romance of owning a pickup truck?

2021 Ford F-150 review: Setting a higher bar - Roadshow

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1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Thats interesting on the level of uptake @Jay McKinsey

My questions are is a payload of 2000lbs enough for most pickup users in the US? and if it is what impact would that have on the mileage before recharging?

The same applies for towing.

I'm guessing by the level of uptake that most consumers are happy but it would be interesting how quickly the battery gets drained when carrying or towing load, especially when the aircon is on. The recharge rate of 10 hours is just about OK but if on 32A its 14 hours which isnt OK, not sure what the standard is in the US???

 

I'm not a truck guy so I'll leave it to others to opine on the truckness other than I thought the million pound towing stunt was cool: https://youtu.be/bXFHgoon7lg?t=109

 

 

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8 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

 

The engine and transmission require expensive rebuilds. 

A typical engine rebuild is between $2,500 and $4,000 in parts and labor costs

On average, a rebuilt transmission costs about $1,950 with average prices ranging from $1,100 to $2,800 in the US for 2020. MyTransmissionExpert says the cost to rebuild a transmission is about $2,250, with average prices ranging from $1,500 to $3,000.

A full brake replacement Expect a brake job of replacing brake pads and rotors to cost $250-$400 per axle on average. (EVs basically never need new brakes because of the regen braking)

In a few years a replacement battery will be the same cost or less.

 

You miss the point, the ICE "engine rebuild" is not needed compared to the EV.  There is no market for used EV's.

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8 hours ago, notsonice said:

this is what an F150 looks like these days . It is a rare thing to find a newer long bed these days. Hard to squeeze in 2000 lbs in the shortbed. You cannot even haul a sheet of plywood. For the most part suburbanites buy them and drive them back and forth to work never hauling anything or towing anything. My guess at least 75 percent of all F150s never see real work. If you need one for hauling or going to jobsites an EV would be a bad choice. Why do people buy the 4 door shortbeds? Romance of owning a pickup truck?

2021 Ford F-150 review: Setting a higher bar - Roadshow

Around here it is rare to see any scratches or dents in the bed.

Remember when they sold trucks by bragging about being tough?  Now they just brag about heated seats and retractable running boards so weak ass can get in and relax.

 

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(edited)

2 hours ago, -trance said:

Around here it is rare to see any scratches or dents in the bed.

Remember when they sold trucks by bragging about being tough?  Now they just brag about heated seats and retractable running boards so weak ass can get in and relax.

 

You're point being?? 

Mine has all that and I haul 16k trailer full of debris, and can haul a skid of shingles no problem.

Edited by Old-Ruffneck
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(edited)

11 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You miss the point, the ICE "engine rebuild" is not needed compared to the EV.  There is no market for used EV's.

HaHa, old ICE definitely need a lot of engine and transmission work and everyone knows it. No market for used EV's?? Then why are used Tesla Model 3 so much more expensive than used BMW 3 series? When new the BMW cost the same or more. It is hilarious how you make these claims that are so easily disproven.

2018 BMW 3 series with 33K miles priced under $30K.

image.thumb.png.6423f18ebc5d47b6645dd8bff26b2c52.png

 

 

2018 Tesla Model 3 with 35K to 45K miles priced $37K to $41K.

image.thumb.png.d099fac42ba63c3d155b44fe104d7d22.png

The more a product is in demand the higher the price, basic economics.

But it gets even better. The cars I have referenced are all in California. In 2018 Tesla sold 4x as many Model 3 in CA as BMW sold 3 series. So with 4x the supply the market demand for used 2018 Model 3 is so high that they sell for $8K to $20K more than the comparable BMW even though the Tesla has higher mileage!

image.png.bb0251c3999e09f41e171cac47934c75.png

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-4Q-18.pdf

 

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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Here is truth:

  1. Average US family has more than 2 cars...
  2. One of those cars per family has almost always been a beater used for close in transportation on the daily.  I do not see this changing
  3. Since #1, #2 is true, then I see no reason EV's will not take 50% of the market share
  4. No, EV's will not take 100% anytime in my lifetime unless there is a large battery breakthrough which is possible.
  5. What is also possible is someone finally makes a modular solar roofing system that covers the ENTIRE roof, not just a small portion like TESLA is currently doing with low efficiency at a horrific price.
  6. Why?  No one likes cheap shingle roofs.  If one truly makes a true cheap ceramic/glass solar roof, everyone will go for it.  It is only a matter of time.
  7. If the entire roof is covered, this makes powering your old beater car to drive around town imminently feasible and combined with no maintenance on EV's compared to ICE ... and is only limited by:
  8. Big Battery bank in the home and the giant elephant in the room, seasonal variability due mostly to WINTER so the above only works down south. If you are up north where the majority of the population lives, you are screwed. 
  9. So, only ~1/3 of the US population can do the above.  Effectively no one in Europe can do the above, but if you live in India, Middle East/Africa(not the tropics), Central America, large portions of S. America, then this is possible. 
  10. The question is and always has been: Cost.... I have an EV bike for instance and have had one for over 10 years now.  Uses NiMh batteries.  At the time I had to build it myself.  Kids use it to bang over to their friends place or drop by the grocery store and allowed me to dodge the teenager moronacy of letting them drive before 18 years old where they get into tons of accidents, speeding tickets,  etc making it near impossible to get cheep insurance later in life. 

PS: IF people start using solar heat to power their heat pumps using evaporation instead of standard heat pumps, AC cost will drop in half for residential homes anyways and some commercial who have enough roof space.  All will need a combined cycle for when the sun is not shining and it is still hot out or you just need the AC/dehumidifier. 

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12 hours ago, notsonice said:

this is what an F150 looks like these days . It is a rare thing to find a newer long bed these days. Hard to squeeze in 2000 lbs in the shortbed. You cannot even haul a sheet of plywood. For the most part suburbanites buy them and drive them back and forth to work never hauling anything or towing anything. My guess at least 75 percent of all F150s never see real work. If you need one for hauling or going to jobsites an EV would be a bad choice. Why do people buy the 4 door shortbeds? Romance of owning a pickup truck?

2021 Ford F-150 review: Setting a higher bar - Roadshow

They own a pickup truck because it gives them OPTIONS and no one likes sitting close to the ground and no one likes narrow seats other than a few select people.  Why the most bought category of vehicles are Utility vehicles.... Vans... oh my bad, they relabeled as SUV's... and 2nd most bought type are commuter cars... sedan's.

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24 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Here is truth:

  1. Average US family has more than 2 cars...
  2. One of those cars per family has almost always been a beater used for close in transportation on the daily.  I do not see this changing
  3. Since #1, #2 is true, then I see no reason EV's will not take 50% of the market share
  4. No, EV's will not take 100% anytime in my lifetime unless there is a large battery breakthrough which is possible.
  5. What is also possible is someone finally makes a modular solar roofing system that covers the ENTIRE roof, not just a small portion like TESLA is currently doing with low efficiency at a horrific price.
  6. Why?  No one likes cheap shingle roofs.  If one truly makes a true cheap ceramic/glass solar roof, everyone will go for it.  It is only a matter of time.
  7. If the entire roof is covered, this makes powering your old beater car to drive around town imminently feasible and combined with no maintenance on EV's compared to ICE ... and is only limited by:
  8. Big Battery bank in the home and the giant elephant in the room, seasonal variability due mostly to WINTER so the above only works down south. If you are up north where the majority of the population lives, you are screwed. 
  9. So, only ~1/3 of the US population can do the above.  Effectively no one in Europe can do the above, but if you live in India, Middle East/Africa(not the tropics), Central America, large portions of S. America, then this is possible. 
  10. The question is and always has been: Cost.... I have an EV bike for instance and have had one for over 10 years now.  Uses NiMh batteries.  At the time I had to build it myself.  Kids use it to bang over to their friends place or drop by the grocery store and allowed me to dodge the teenager moronacy of letting them drive before 18 years old where they get into tons of accidents, speeding tickets,  etc making it near impossible to get cheep insurance later in life. 

PS: IF people start using solar heat to power their heat pumps using evaporation instead of standard heat pumps, AC cost will drop in half for residential homes anyways and some commercial who have enough roof space.  All will need a combined cycle for when the sun is not shining and it is still hot out or you just need the AC/dehumidifier. 

If the entire roof is covered, this makes powering your old beater car to drive around town imminently feasible????

nail meet hammer

Maxeon Solar Technologies Announces Peel-and-Stick Solar Panels

Lightweight Panels Can Be Stuck Directly to Roofs

Maxeon Solar Technologies may have revealed the next evolution in solar roofing technology: peel-and-stick solar panels.

The Singapore-based company announced the commercialization of its new Maxeon Air technology platform, which it reports will utilize frameless, thin and lightweight solar panels that perform as well as standard solar panels.

The panels are the result of five years of research, development and testing. Maxeon says the panels can be adhered directly to a roof without the need for racking, membrane penetrations or other mounting systems, saving on time and labor.

The panels will be featured in select projects in Europe in the second half of 2021, with general availability scheduled for the first quarter of 2022.

“For close to 50 years, the solar power industry has almost exclusively utilized glass superstrate panel construction. As solar panels have increased in size, and the cost of solar cells has been dramatically reduced, the cost of transporting, installing and mounting large glass panels has become a relatively larger portion of total system cost,” said Jeff Waters, Maxeon Solar Technologies CEO, in a written statement. “With Maxeon Air technology, we can now develop products that reduce these costs while opening up completely new market opportunities such as low-load commercial rooftops.”

The install weight of the panels is around 13 pounds (6 kilograms) per square meter. This is ideal for roofs that can’t bear the weight of traditional solar system installations, though as outlets like Electrek have pointed out, details about which roofs the panels can stick to were not released. The panels themselves are .2 inches (4 millimeters) in width, which is thinner than a standard pencil.

Despite their low weight, Maxeon reports they are engineered to conform to uneven roof surfaces and are fire-certified. The cells themselves use a solid metal foundation and stress relieved cell interconnects to prevent corrosion and allow energy flow, even with cracked cells. No details were revealed on how a panel is replaced if broken.

“In addition to the team's innovative development work on the module design and materials, this new technology platform is fundamentally enabled by our unique IBC cell technology with its superior corrosion resistance and ability to bend without harmful cracking,” said Waters.

Maxeon Air solar panels have a reported efficiency of 20.9% combined with a low-power temperature coefficient, shade tolerance and wide spectral response. Details about wiring, the type of adhesive the panels use and specifics on resiliency were not disclosed.

These details and more could be revealed when Maxeon Air solar panels are presented to the public during "The Smarter E Industry Days", on July 21-23

 

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13 minutes ago, notsonice said:

If the entire roof is covered, this makes powering your old beater car to drive around town imminently feasible????

nail meet hammer

Maxeon Solar Technologies Announces Peel-and-Stick Solar Panels

Lightweight Panels Can Be Stuck Directly to Roofs

Maxeon Solar Technologies may have revealed the next evolution in solar roofing technology: peel-and-stick solar panels.

The Singapore-based company announced the commercialization of its new Maxeon Air technology platform, which it reports will utilize frameless, thin and lightweight solar panels that perform as well as standard solar panels.

The panels are the result of five years of research, development and testing. Maxeon says the panels can be adhered directly to a roof without the need for racking, membrane penetrations or other mounting systems, saving on time and labor.

The panels will be featured in select projects in Europe in the second half of 2021, with general availability scheduled for the first quarter of 2022.

“For close to 50 years, the solar power industry has almost exclusively utilized glass superstrate panel construction. As solar panels have increased in size, and the cost of solar cells has been dramatically reduced, the cost of transporting, installing and mounting large glass panels has become a relatively larger portion of total system cost,” said Jeff Waters, Maxeon Solar Technologies CEO, in a written statement. “With Maxeon Air technology, we can now develop products that reduce these costs while opening up completely new market opportunities such as low-load commercial rooftops.”

The install weight of the panels is around 13 pounds (6 kilograms) per square meter. This is ideal for roofs that can’t bear the weight of traditional solar system installations, though as outlets like Electrek have pointed out, details about which roofs the panels can stick to were not released. The panels themselves are .2 inches (4 millimeters) in width, which is thinner than a standard pencil.

Despite their low weight, Maxeon reports they are engineered to conform to uneven roof surfaces and are fire-certified. The cells themselves use a solid metal foundation and stress relieved cell interconnects to prevent corrosion and allow energy flow, even with cracked cells. No details were revealed on how a panel is replaced if broken.

“In addition to the team's innovative development work on the module design and materials, this new technology platform is fundamentally enabled by our unique IBC cell technology with its superior corrosion resistance and ability to bend without harmful cracking,” said Waters.

Maxeon Air solar panels have a reported efficiency of 20.9% combined with a low-power temperature coefficient, shade tolerance and wide spectral response. Details about wiring, the type of adhesive the panels use and specifics on resiliency were not disclosed.

These details and more could be revealed when Maxeon Air solar panels are presented to the public during "The Smarter E Industry Days", on July 21-23

 

No, I will not be investing in Maxeon.  Though maybe I should to ride the emotional wave of over exuberant stupidity for a year until the stock crashes due to immense number of recalls.  At least TESLA got that part right finally even if they did delay their final product by several years...

Those  so called "panels" have an absurdly short life and are trash.  You can't walk on them to clean panels or gutters etc.  Same reason the old GE shingles sucked ass.  Can't take hail either.  Vast majority of the world has severe thunderstorms--> HAIL.  Same reason so called "flexible" solar panels suck ass.  They are a joke, a fraud. 

I see you get all excited about fraud.  Please only invest 90% of your money so you can live on the other 10% and not go on welfare. 

 

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1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

No, I will not be investing in Maxeon.  Though maybe I should to ride the emotional wave of over exuberant stupidity for a year until the stock crashes due to immense number of recalls.  At least TESLA got that part right finally even if they did delay their final product by several years...

Those  so called "panels" have an absurdly short life and are trash.  You can't walk on them to clean panels or gutters etc.  Same reason the old GE shingles sucked ass.  Can't take hail either.  Vast majority of the world has severe thunderstorms--> HAIL.  Same reason so called "flexible" solar panels suck ass.  They are a joke, a fraud. 

I see you get all excited about fraud.  Please only invest 90% of your money so you can live on the other 10% and not go on welfare. 

 

No, I will not be investing in Maxeon.??? who asked you to??? just  a new product you can stick on your car. As far as their life, they are not even on the market yet and their applications and durability/capabilities has not been released.

 

Please only invest 90% of your money so you can live on the other 10% and not go on welfare. ???? Just another one of your low IQ statements

 

 

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5 minutes ago, notsonice said:

No, I will not be investing in Maxeon.??? who asked you to??? just  a new product you can stick on your car. As far as their life, they are not even on the market yet and their applications and durability/capabilities has not been released.

 

Please only invest 90% of your money so you can live on the other 10% and not go on welfare. ???? Just another one of your low IQ statements

 

 

....  I wonder if you can do 1) math or 2) reality check as 3) it appears you have never touched a solar panel and why how they fail.

And no, you will not be sticking these to your car roof and obtaining anything useful.  Try ... science. 

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(edited)

4 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

....  I wonder if you can do 1) math or 2) reality check as 3) it appears you have never touched a solar panel and why how they fail.

And no, you will not be sticking these to your car roof and obtaining anything useful.  Try ... science. 

and why how they fail??????? what are you babbling about? you seem to going off the deep end (again)

Edited by notsonice

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It looks like the Batmobile, works on solar
energy, and could be the future of cars

The Aptera can go 150 miles after just 15 minutes at an ordinary charging station. Starting price is $25,900.

 

Photos by Jane Hahn
Feb. 25, 2021
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The dream began in 1955, with a tiny, toylike creation called the “Sunmobile.” Built from balsa wood and hobby shop tires, it was just 15 inches long. The 12 selenium solar cells that decorated its exterior produced less horsepower than an actual horse. But it was proof of a concept: Sunlight alone can make a vehicle run.

The years went on, and the dream evolved into a converted vintage buggy with solar panels on its roof. Then a glorified bicycle, a retiree’s garage project, a racecar that crossed the Mojave Desert at 51 miles per hour.

It is a dream of perpetual motion. Of travel that doesn’t do damage to the planet. Of journeys that last as long as the sun shines.

There are problems with this dream, big ones. Clouds come. Night falls. The laws of physics limit how efficiently solar panels can turn light into energy.

But one start-up claims it has overcome those problems. Now, its founders say, the dream can be yours for as little as $25,900.

Aptera Motors, a California company whose name comes from the ancient Greek for “wingless,” is rolling out the first mass-produced solar car this year. It’s a three-wheel, ultra-aerodynamic electric vehicle covered in 34 square feet of solar cells. The car is so efficient that, on a clear day, those cells alone could provide enough energy to drive about 40 miles — more than twice the distance of the average American’s commute.

The Aptera must undergo safety tests before the company can begin distribution, which it hopes to do by the end of this year. Even then, it’s not clear that consumers will want to buy something that looks like a cross between the Batmobile and a beetle. The shadow of an initial attempt, which ended in bankruptcy, hangs over the founders as they gear up to launch their new product.

But the Aptera’s creators, Chris Anthony and Steve Fambro, think the world needs a car like theirs. Transportation is the largest source of planet-warming pollution in the United States. The Biden administration has made it a priority to reduce vehicle emissions, and several major automakers have pledged to phase out cars and light trucks with internal combustion engines.

After years of dreaming, maybe the time for driving on sunshine is finally here.

Solar panel power

Anthony and Fambro didn’t set out to build a vehicle that could run on solar power. They just wanted to make a more efficient car.

Burning gasoline, it turns out, is not a very efficient way to travel; as much as four-fifths of the energy produced by an internal combustion engine is lost as heat, wasted overcoming wind resistance or used up by fuel pumps and other components, according to Energy Department data.

 

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(edited)

Burning gasoline to fuel transportation is still the wave of the future, as ICE SUV sales continue to boom, and will increase the demand for gasoline in a big way going forward. This week, the IEA has suddenly reversed itself from its recent call for an oil shutdown, and is now crying out for a rapid increase in oil production. I guess all that gab about climate crisis was just hot air,  nothing to do with a hot planet.

https://archive.is/b994D#selection-1877.0-1877.131

Edited by Ecocharger

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(edited)

6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

HaHa, old ICE definitely need a lot of engine and transmission work and everyone knows it. No market for used EV's?? Then why are used Tesla Model 3 so much more expensive than used BMW 3 series? When new the BMW cost the same or more. It is hilarious how you make these claims that are so easily disproven.

2018 BMW 3 series with 33K miles priced under $30K.

image.thumb.png.6423f18ebc5d47b6645dd8bff26b2c52.png

 

 

2018 Tesla Model 3 with 35K to 45K miles priced $37K to $41K.

image.thumb.png.d099fac42ba63c3d155b44fe104d7d22.png

The more a product is in demand the higher the price, basic economics.

But it gets even better. The cars I have referenced are all in California. In 2018 Tesla sold 4x as many Model 3 in CA as BMW sold 3 series. So with 4x the supply the market demand for used 2018 Model 3 is so high that they sell for $8K to $20K more than the comparable BMW even though the Tesla has higher mileage!

image.png.bb0251c3999e09f41e171cac47934c75.png

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-4Q-18.pdf

 

Jay, those EV mileage numbers are chickenfeed, those vehicles were barely broken in at that mileage. They must have been second cars in a family which were rarely used, and in which the ICE was the mainstay transportation. Thus they were sold to someone, with very little mileage on them. And at those prices for a used vehicle, no one with a mid-to-lower income could possibly afford them. That is why you see so few EV's in the used car market. No one would buy an EV with substantial mileage on it, getting closer to a whole power plant replacement at huge cost. That is why the EV second hand market is so small.

Edited by Ecocharger

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Here is the result of the Green fiscal insanity to which the American people are now pointed by the Biden group, national bankruptcy as a result of misguided government subsidies to non-self-supporting Green money drainage.

China has pioneered this fiscal madness, and is now reeling from the results.

The consequences? The Chinese Green industry has just been cut loose from the supporting arms of government. Why? The Green agenda or Green Deal has resulted in fiscal disaster.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/China-Delivers-Crushing-Blow-To-Wind-Solar-Power.html

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(edited)

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, those EV mileage numbers are chickenfeed, those vehicles were barely broken in at that mileage. They must have been second cars in a family which were rarely used, and in which the , was the mainstay transportation. Thus they were sold to someone, with very little mileage on them. And at those prices for a used vehicle, no one with a mid-to-lower income could possibly afford them. That is why you see so few EV's in the used car market. No one would buy an EV with substantial mileage on it, getting closer to a whole power plant replacement at huge cost. That is why the EV second hand market is so small.

Well the ICE had lower miles so maybe they were the second car, but of course you ignored that. Absolutely hilarious that first you say there is no demand for used EVs and now you say the used EVs cost too much, which is only possible if they are super popular. If no one wanted them they would be cheap, like the the BMW ICE are.

There aren't many used EVs on the national market because there haven't been very many EVs sold as you so often point out, duh. The used EV market in CA is starting to become well stocked.

The average person in the US drives 13,500 miles per year. So a 3 year old car should have 40,500 miles. 

So here are some more Model 3 all with over 40,500 miles and still priced more than the BMW's with far fewer miles. But I'm sure you are going to ignore this as well. Your position is getting steam rolled by the EV reality. :)

image.thumb.png.00a8a1a800e1dcbed5022728680952f9.png

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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MG5 EV $19,000 in the UK

Until now, electric cars have typically been compact and low-range. Not anymore! MG5 EV offers huge amounts of space and 214 miles of electric range*. Featuring rapid charging capability, MG5 EV can charge to 80% in just 50 minutes from a 50kW charging point.

Packaged in a highly practical body style, MG5 EV offers a boot volume of 578 litres to the roof. This rises to 1,456 litres with the rear seats folded down and loaded to the roof. Inside the cabin, there’s plenty of room for five people to travel in comfort.

*from a single charge on the WLTP combined cycle: Combined Range 214 miles (344 km): City Range: 276 miles (444 km); Combined Driving Efficiency: 3.6 miles/kWh (17.5 kWh/100km)

 

DSC04871-Final-1-2400x1600

 

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On 4/23/2021 at 11:29 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

No, you are smelling Texas. By August California will have 2GW of new battery storage online since last August. That is more than the power shortage that led to our rolling blackouts.

THE RENEWABLE TECH IS BEGINNING TO INTEGRATE BETTER WITH NATURE --  FROM AGRI=VOLTAICS TO USING CAMERAS /AI TO SPOT BIRDS NEAR WIND TURBINES & SLOW THEM DOWN -EVEN LIGHTER,STRONGER WIND TURBINE TOWERS USING LAMINATED WOOD % EFFICIENT WIND BLADE & SOLAR PANEL RECYLING ,E VEN NOW WE CAN RECLAIM RARE METALS FROM OUR E-DEVICES USING ENZYMES !!

 

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16 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Until now, electric cars have typically been compact and low-range. Not anymore! MG5 EV offers huge amounts of space and 214 miles of electric range*.

Wow, Peoria to Des Moines lol......then ya gotta find a place to charge it and how much time to get it full for another whopping 214 miles??

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(edited)

12 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Wow, Peoria to Des Moines lol......then ya gotta find a place to charge it and how much time to get it full for another whopping 214 miles??

That is a lot of miles at that price point. Unthinkable just a couple years ago. The point is that EVs are dropping in cost fast. In a few years that car will have 300 miles then 400 miles... 

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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(edited)

On 6/12/2021 at 12:32 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Well the ICE had lower miles so maybe they were the second car, but of course you ignored that. Absolutely hilarious that first you say there is no demand for used EVs and now you say the used EVs cost too much, which is only possible if they are super popular. If no one wanted them they would be cheap, like the the BMW ICE are.

There aren't many used EVs on the national market because there haven't been very many EVs sold as you so often point out, duh. The used EV market in CA is starting to become well stocked.

The average person in the US drives 13,500 miles per year. So a 3 year old car should have 40,500 miles. 

So here are some more Model 3 all with over 40,500 miles and still priced more than the BMW's with far fewer miles. But I'm sure you are going to ignore this as well. Your position is getting steam rolled by the EV reality. :)

image.thumb.png.00a8a1a800e1dcbed5022728680952f9.png

Jay, your market analysis is all wrong. The second-hand market in ICE's is gigantic, and provides basic transportation for most of middle and low income America. Those few EV's which are sold second-hand MUST have low mileage on them , because no one would buy a second-hand EV with high mileage just about needing a power plant replacement. That happens much sooner for the EV than for the ICE.

So there never will be a significant market for used EV's with more than a small amount of mileage. That is what your own figures are showing. 40,000 miles is just enough to break in an ICE, but for an EV that is a lot of mileage for a limited sunset power plant. 

Edited by Ecocharger

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