GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Failing due to renewables reliance...the same old story, Jay.

So you think natural gas power plants are powered by renewables?

[notsonice + 1,062]

6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Failing due to renewables reliance...the same old story, Jay.

not failing renewables or failing gas power plant issues

 

Ice storms cause transmission line failures/transformer station issues

which then takes generation off line

You really need to stop babbling bs.....it makes you look like a bigger fool

Edited February 7, 2023 by notsonice

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

6 hours ago, notsonice said:

not failing renewables or failing gas power plant issues

 

Ice storms cause transmission line failures/transformer station issues

which then takes generation off line

You really need to stop babbling bs.....it makes you look like a bigger fool

Problems are problems and electricity has plenty. Renewables will always be an appendage.

To think that renewable energy will be the prime support for transportation really takes some kind of foolishness.

To believe that CO2 is responsible for earth temperature change takes that foolishness to another level.

Not to mention any names here.....

Edited February 8, 2023 by Ecocharger

[notsonice + 1,062]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Problems are problems and electricity has plenty. Renewables will always be an appendage.

To think that renewable energy will be the prime support for transportation really takes some kind of foolishness.

To believe that CO2 is responsible for earth temperature change takes that foolishness to another level.

Not to mention any names here.....

Problems are problems and electricity has plenty??? babbling after an ice storm about renewables being a problem when in reality transmisssion lines got whacked shows you really just love to babble bs

 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

10 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Problems are problems and electricity has plenty??? babbling after an ice storm about renewables being a problem when in reality transmisssion lines got whacked shows you really just love to babble bs

 

Don't look now, but transmission lines are part of the electrical system. Sorry.

[TailingsPond + 460]

44 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Don't look now, but transmission lines are part of the electrical system. Sorry.

Don't look now, but fossil fuel powered electric plants use the same power grid -which clearly fails regardless of energy source- so your problem is with the crappy electric infrastructure, not renewable energy.

If a bridge collapsed would you say people should just stick to boats to cross rivers so it doesn't strain the bridge network?  No, you build better bridges.

Edited February 8, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

52 minutes ago, TailingsPond said:

Don't look now, but fossil fuel powered electric plants use the same power grid -which clearly fails regardless of energy source- so your problem is with the crappy electric infrastructure, not renewable energy.

If a bridge collapsed would you say people should just stick to boats to cross rivers so it doesn't strain the bridge network?  No, you build better bridges.

Part of the problem with the supposed "transition" is the enormous infrastructure investments which would be required to facilitate a massive increase in electric capability. The current infrastructure is obviously inadequate.

Who would pay for that? Do not expect those who rely on fossil fuel transport to foot the bill.

Why should people like yourself who drive fossil fuel vehicles be asked to pay your hard-earned cash so that someone else can charge up their EV?

That makes no sense.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 460]

15 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

 

Who would pay for that? Do not expect those who rely on fossil fuel transport to [help] foot the bill.

Why should people like yourself who drive fossil fuel vehicles be asked to pay your hard-earned cash so that someone else can charge up their EV?

That makes no sense.

Why not? 

People who don't have children still help pay for schools.  Why? because in the long-term an educated population is good for the nation. 

High-quality infrastructure is good for the nation.  If you consider the grid as a national security interest -which it is- then it should be funded as much as the military.

Should objectors to war pay less taxes, as they do not want to foot the bill for killing machines?  Or do you think the government knows better, recognizes it needs weaponry, and as such makes everyone contribute regardless of their opinion?

Lastly, "enormous infrastructure investments" are great at stimulating the economy, and the deficit spending by government is essentially never repaid.  The Hover dam was a great investment for the country even with it's damn renewable energy.

 

 

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Part of the problem with the supposed "transition" is the enormous infrastructure investments which would be required to facilitate a massive increase in electric capability. The current infrastructure is obviously inadequate.

Who would pay for that? Do not expect those who rely on fossil fuel transport to foot the bill.

Why should people like yourself who drive fossil fuel vehicles be asked to pay your hard-earned cash so that someone else can charge up their EV?

That makes no sense.

The fact is the US (as well as every other nation) is going to demand a hell of a lot more energy and electricity production going forward so why wouldnt you invest in all types of electricity production to enable a stable grid?

Investment in transmission lines should be part of the investment or it doesnt matter what type of generation you have if transmission is inadequate.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

11 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

The fact is the US (as well as every other nation) is going to demand a hell of a lot more energy and electricity production going forward so why wouldnt you invest in all types of electricity production to enable a stable grid?

Investment in transmission lines should be part of the investment or it doesnt matter what type of generation you have if transmission is inadequate.

Who will pay? The costs would be trillions and immiserate any economy. Government deficits eventually have to be paid for or the national debts will not be sustainable and have to be renounced. That kills the debt markets and renders governments incapable of functioning. We have seen government debts in some countries swell to such levels that they are unserviceable and have to be abandoned. If America goes down that road, which it currently is in spades, as is Europe, there would be world wide financial collapse, and economies would grind to a halt.

At some point, reality breaks in.

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

8 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Who will pay? The costs would be trillions and immiserate any economy. Government deficits eventually have to be paid for or the national debts will not be sustainable and have to be renounced. That kills the debt markets and renders governments incapable of functioning. We have seen government debts in some countries swell to such levels that they are unserviceable and have to be abandoned. If America goes down that road, which it currently is in spades, as is Europe, there would be world wide financial collapse, and economies would grind to a halt.

At some point, reality breaks in.

So what is your answer?

Do nothing?

Watch the failing infrastructure continue to fail but worse each year, with more people freezing to death?

UK energy bills went sky high because of over reliance on NG stations and the war in Ukraine sent the NG price to the stratosphere. Wind is cheap energy and the various wind majors building the infrastructure do so largely through their own investment. The upkeep of a solid transmission system is ultimately paid for by the consumer but this typically is around 5% of their energy bills so not the driving factor for price increases.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

4 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

So what is your answer?

Do nothing?

Watch the failing infrastructure continue to fail but worse each year, with more people freezing to death?

UK energy bills went sky high because of over reliance on NG stations and the war in Ukraine sent the NG price to the stratosphere. Wind is cheap energy and the various wind majors building the infrastructure do so largely through their own investment. The upkeep of a solid transmission system is ultimately paid for by the consumer but this typically is around 5% of their energy bills so not the driving factor for price increases.

You are talking about maintenance, not replacement and expansion. The infrastructure is currently a low charge, but the public rebuilding and multiplication of the infrastructure is a massive undertaking. No one can or will pay for it.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Here is where Biden & Co. are focused, on attacking profits and normal financial dealings. As if oil is the only industry making profits.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Big-Oil-Smashes-Earnings-Record-With-219-Billion-In-Profits.html

"High oil and gas prices saw all of the oil majors report record profits in 2022, more than doubling their combined net earnings.

The oil majors’ net earnings surged to $219 billion for 2022, up from around $100 billion booked for 2021.

The UK and the EU have already slapped windfall taxes on the industry, while President Biden has suggested quadrupling taxes on stock buybacks."

Edited February 8, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,600]

6 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You are talking about maintenance, not replacement and expansion. The infrastructure is currently a low charge, but the public rebuilding and multiplication of the infrastructure is a massive undertaking. No one can or will pay for it.

Yes I was talking about maintenance

The US is already $31trillion in debt so is another couple going to put people into poverty? and thats if your calculation/guess is anywhere near accurate. I dont see how offshore wind farms are going to push the US to (to use your terminology) "immiserate" your economy.

Surely theres no point in investing in any new powergen systems be they FF or renewable if your transmission lines and grid are shot to pieces. Without power your economy is dead!

[TailingsPond + 460]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

 Without power your economy is dead!

Actual people will be dead.  Weak infrastructure is a huge national security risk. 

Enemies could target just a few key spots and destabilize manufacturing, communications, healthcare, water treatment, etc.

Grid redundancy and excess transmission capability is required.  Imagine if factories had to massively ramp up production due to war, they couldn't because of the shitty grid.  War is not the time to be using lots of copper, steel, and manpower to replace old power lines.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/united-states-broken-infrastructure-national-security-threat

 

Meanwhile China is strengthening its infrastructure and fortifying supply chains (belt and road initiative).

Edited February 8, 2023 by TailingsPond

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

3 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes I was talking about maintenance

The US is already $31trillion in debt so is another couple going to put people into poverty? and thats if your calculation/guess is anywhere near accurate. I dont see how offshore wind farms are going to push the US to (to use your terminology) "immiserate" your economy.

Surely theres no point in investing in any new powergen systems be they FF or renewable if your transmission lines and grid are shot to pieces. Without power your economy is dead!

Massively upgrading and expanding by a multiple of several times the electrical infrastructure to accommodate a proposed Green revolution would probably bankrupt the federal budget, which is already on the verge of unsustainability.

Do not look for that to happen. If this nightmare ever was signed into law, few people would still own private vehicles.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 460]

4 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

 

The US is already $31trillion in debt so is another couple going to put people into poverty? and thats if your calculation/guess is anywhere near accurate. I don't see how offshore wind farms are going to push the US to (to use your terminology) "immiserate" your economy.

Surely theres no point in investing in any new powergen systems be they FF or renewable if your transmission lines and grid are shot to pieces. Without power your economy is dead!

It could bring people out of poverty.  You can legislate that the infrastructure contracts only go to US companies using primarily US materials and labour, etc. Much of the money can remain in the country.

Sure the national debt may go up but the actual people have more money.

Edited February 8, 2023 by TailingsPond

[notsonice + 1,062]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Massively upgrading and expanding by a multiple of several times the electrical infrastructure to accommodate a proposed Green revolution would probably bankrupt the federal budget, which is already on the verge of unsustainability.

Do not look for that to happen. If this nightmare ever was signed into law, few people would still own private vehicles.

would probably bankrupt the federal budget, which is already on the verge of unsustainability. ???

more BS

Under Biden the public debt  to GDP ratio has decreased in both 2021 and 2022

 

public debt as a percentage of GDP is decreasing under Biden.............are you saying this is a bad , unsustainable trend??????

the green revolution is already happening and it has not causing the ratio to increase

Face it your BS is just BS and has no factual basis

PS record low unemployment being led by the green revolution is MAGA. Enjoy the transition, I am. Record low unemployment fuels the transition. The Transition fuels record low unemployment. And both the transition and record low unemployment fuels GDP increasing faster than Debt which is a positive trend.

Edited February 8, 2023 by notsonice

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

7 hours ago, notsonice said:

would probably bankrupt the federal budget, which is already on the verge of unsustainability. ???

more BS

Under Biden the public debt  to GDP ratio has decreased in both 2021 and 2022

 

public debt as a percentage of GDP is decreasing under Biden.............are you saying this is a bad , unsustainable trend??????

the green revolution is already happening and it has not causing the ratio to increase

Face it your BS is just BS and has no factual basis

PS record low unemployment being led by the green revolution is MAGA. Enjoy the transition, I am. Record low unemployment fuels the transition. The Transition fuels record low unemployment. And both the transition and record low unemployment fuels GDP increasing faster than Debt which is a positive trend.

Nonsense, there will be no transition, and there is nothing in the Biden bills to fuel any serious transition. Any serious transition would cause a huge political backlash against the Demos and turf them out of office.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

Oil is big and is going to get bigger, its a generational transition requirement.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Road-Tripping-Retirees-Set-To-Bolster-US-Gasoline-Demand.html

"Yet, people drove more in the United States in 2022 than in 2019, before the pandemic. 

“We forecast this trend of increased travel will continue in the United States during 2023 and 2024, "

Edited February 9, 2023 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:32 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

So you think natural gas power plants are powered by renewables?

We went through this a few hundred times, Jay. The natural gas plants relied on starters powered by electricity, just a tiny spark to get the process going....and the renewable sector could not even manage that tiny little task. Pathetic.

[Ron Wagner + 642]

17 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

The fact is the US (as well as every other nation) is going to demand a hell of a lot more energy and electricity production going forward so why wouldnt you invest in all types of electricity production to enable a stable grid?

Investment in transmission lines should be part of the investment or it doesnt matter what type of generation you have if transmission is inadequate.

Wind and solar demand transmission lines to their particular wind and solar farms. Natural gas plants can be built where existing city transmission lines are. 

[Ron Wagner + 642]

[Ron Wagner + 642]

And, any ICE engine can be run with a natural gas conversion.

This one is designed for CNG.

https://poweredsolutions.gm.com/products/lfi-engine/

Edited February 9, 2023 by Ron Wagner

[turbguy + 1,391]

On 1/31/2023 at 2:36 AM, specinho said:

2. In order to illustrate your second point, this is a simplified version of Photosynthesis:

CO2 + H2O ------} C6H12O6 + O2

I believe you have ignored a rather important input term and interim steps in that process diagram.  The Calvin cycle has some real neat tricks up it's sleeve!

I am certain you can discern what that missing input term might be.

It is a pity that humankind cannot seem to replicate the process, without invoking other forms of life.

The origin of life on Earth is a subject of some considerable controversy, ranging from the "waving of a magic wand" by a grand deity, to the deposition of materials from an arrival of something from outer space, to the chance formation arising out of "just the right combination" of the right energy and right organic compounds.  That origin may never be nailed down. 

Leave it to say, life is a chaotic system, living within chaos.