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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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On 6/11/2021 at 6:36 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

I'm not a truck guy so I'll leave it to others to opine on the truckness other than I thought the million pound towing stunt was cool: https://youtu.be/bXFHgoon7lg?t=109

 

 

Well, if they are only using one nylon strap, it indicates how well the freight car rolls. They need to show how their ICE trucks do for comparison, not just say that they can't. 

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22 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

 

Illinois is poised to become the first state in the Midwest to ban coal-burning power plants

Illinois, one of the nation’s largest producers of coal, is on the verge of becoming the first Midwest state to ban energy companies from burning the lung-damaging, climate-changing fossil fuel to generate electricity.

 

The end of gas-fired power might not be far behind.

Phasing out the combustion fuels — coal by 2035 and gas a decade later — is a key element of Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s plans to move Illinois into a clean energy future.

https://www.pantagraph.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/as-legislature-reconvenes-illinois-is-poised-to-become-the-first-state-in-the-midwest-to/article_e4ca0c14-b6dc-537e-a1ed-1e1f00db12ed.html

 

Pritzker is just another far left elitist like Newsome of California. He knows he will not be around to worry about the consequences. He probably has a lot of investments in wind turbines and solar. He is filthy rich. 

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On 6/10/2021 at 6:28 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

The original post that you responded to on the topic was about market share. Sorry, I forgot I have to explain everything over again in every post for you.

Talk about lacking coherence, you are claiming that because oil use is returning to pre pandemic levels and prices this year that we won't see 25% BEV new car market share in CA in 4 years???? 

A little economics lesson for you - one of the most fundamental functions in economics is that when the price of a product goes up people switch to substitutes. In the past oil was inelastic because there were no substitutes but now there are.

 

The price of electricity will continue to go up in California and any other state that tries to quickly shift to wind and solar. Such a shift takes time and good planning. A long time. Same with electric vehicles. The supply chain is already falling apart. Biggest winner is China our adversary and they just stopped supporting their wind and solar plants. 

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On 6/10/2021 at 6:28 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

The original post that you responded to on the topic was about market share. Sorry, I forgot I have to explain everything over again in every post for you.

Talk about lacking coherence, you are claiming that because oil use is returning to pre pandemic levels and prices this year that we won't see 25% BEV new car market share in CA in 4 years???? 

A little economics lesson for you - one of the most fundamental functions in economics is that when the price of a product goes up people switch to substitutes. In the past oil was inelastic because there were no substitutes but now there are.

 

The price of electric vehicles is misrepresented in many cases. They are often not available at the stated price. 

The cost of electric vehicles seems destined to rise rather than fall, at least in the mid term. Needed materials are rising in price. 

Now I hear that small EV econoboxes have batteries that will not last long due to the way they lose efficiency compared to larger batteries. That makes them uneconomical in the long run. 

Then there is the problem of misrepresenting the growth of the industry which is stated in percentage of growth over a still very small base of vehicles. The same is repeatedly done with all renewables. What is needed is the comparison to ICE vs EVs and the comparison of renewables to coal and natural gas plants. Also to not subsume hydroelectricity to renewables. 

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On 6/10/2021 at 9:16 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Back to pre pandemic levels. When quantity demand surpasses 2019 then you will have something to talk about.

Maybe this year!

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US Opens Gulf of Mexico to Offshore Wind

 

The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management (BOEM) will publish a Request for Interest (RFI) in the Federal Register on Friday, 11 June to assess interest in potential offshore wind development in the OCS.

The RFI will be focused on the Western and Central Planning Areas of the Gulf of Mexico offshore the states of Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, and Alabama.

https://www.offshorewind.biz/2021/06/09/us-opens-gulf-of-mexico-to-offshore-wind/

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2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

There wouldn't be enough electricity for many electric vehicles. Fact. 

Depends on what "many" is.

Off-peak charging can be supported by a whole bunch-o-megawatts.

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On 6/10/2021 at 10:40 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

The same thing we have been talking about. You could also try clicking on the link.

My brother had a Toyota PHEV and didn't think he had any savings considering the higher price. That was probably ten years ago. Hopefully they have improved since then. He drove a lot, not just around town. Did they have regenerative braking then?

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On 6/11/2021 at 1:39 PM, -trance said:

Around here it is rare to see any scratches or dents in the bed.

Remember when they sold trucks by bragging about being tough?  Now they just brag about heated seats and retractable running boards so weak ass can get in and relax.

 

That is why I have a Nissan NV 3500 12 seater van. Large leather seats, V8 engine and lots of gears. Costs about $41,000. All my gear is secure. I can haul whatever I want by removing and relocating seats. The back doors open up all the way and you can have pallets loaded in. It is big enough to camp in. 

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/commercial/nv-passenger.html

2021 Nissan NV Passenger on a mountain road with kayaks on top

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On 6/12/2021 at 8:26 PM, Ecocharger said:

Jay, you are wearing that salesman's hat of yours in a jaunty way. But I am not sold on the hype. 

Both you and I are aware of the drawbacks of owning the EV, and both of us are smart enough to stick with the ICE vehicles. 

BMW is a strong company, and you know it well enough to drive one of their products as your own.

Jay, how big is the rebate in England? Paid for by taxpayers. 

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19 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

My brother had a Toyota PHEV and didn't think he had any savings considering the higher price. That was probably ten years ago. Hopefully they have improved since then. He drove a lot, not just around town. Did they have regenerative braking then?

They now have batteries at least twice the size of the first gen prius.

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(edited)

15 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Jay, how big is the rebate in England? Paid for by taxpayers. 

I think that is a question for @Rob Plant. Otherwise try google as I don't know.

What I can tell you is that the UK motivation to go electric has a lot to do with the fact that oil and gas are very expensive imports for them. Their strategic plan is to generate electricity from their fantastic off shore wind resources and replace their dependence on foreign oil and gas with domestic electricity. So when you snidely point out that the subsidies are paid for by their taxpayers you completely ignore the practical and financial advantage to the country in doing so.

 

Edited by Jay McKinsey
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On 6/13/2021 at 2:09 PM, turbguy said:

Those "very young" will be those USING new vehicles in the not-to-distant future.

I wonder what they will buy or lease?

Hmmmm....

What they can afford, so probably not a Tesla. 

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17 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

What they can afford, so probably not a Tesla. 

The iCar!

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(edited)

On 6/17/2021 at 6:11 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

I think that is a question for @Rob Plant. Otherwise try google as I don't know.

What I can tell you is that the UK motivation to go electric has a lot to do with the fact that oil and gas are very expensive imports for them. Their strategic plan is to generate electricity from their fantastic off shore wind resources and replace their dependence on foreign oil and gas with domestic electricity. So when you snidely point out that the subsidies are paid for by their taxpayers you completely ignore the practical and financial advantage to the country in doing so.

 

 Nothing snide about it. It is just factual. They have made their own energy choices and need to live with the or change them. They have plenty of natural gas underground. They can import LNG, or oil. No reason it has to be high priced. That is up to them. Their taxes and fees make it expensive. Natural gas or EVs make sense for greater London. They are now favoring the rich by taxing auto travel in London. They also have a great subway system. They have been doing things the renewable way. Bad results? You tell me.

Taxes per litre in England  https://www.askthecarexpert.com/fuel-tax/

Nearly $3 per gallon just for tax in England. What will they charge for electrical charging?

Edited by ronwagn
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(edited)

Petrol taxes have been the same in the UK for a decade. Since your article was written oil has returned to normal and the underlying cost of petrol in the UK has increased by 50%. 

They are taxing auto travel in London because of extreme congestion and the density of grid lock and pollution it causes. To avoid it just ride that great subway system you mention, take a taxi or get a low emission vehicle. 

They are having great results doing it the renewable way. 


Six companies are in talks with the UK about building so-called gigafactories for production of batteries for electric cars in moves that could secure the future of Britain’s automobile industry. Carmakers Ford and Nissan, conglomerates LG and Samsung, and start-ups Britishvolt and InoBat Auto are in discussions with the UK government or local authorities about locations for potential factories and financial support, according to people briefed on the talks. While Britishvolt has gone public with its project, the other companies’ discussions with the government or councils about gigafactories have so far been private. The plans by Nissan, the largest carmaker in the UK, were revealed by the Financial Times last month. The British government has put securing car battery investment at the heart of efforts to sustain the country’s auto industry, as ministers pursue ambitious plans to cut carbon emissions. The government’s plan to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030 and hybrids by 2035 will require the UK’s vehicle plants to shift to producing electric models.

https://www.ft.com/content/eeba6823-bffc-4f96-8f98-5722c7db43f6

 

 

Edited by Jay McKinsey
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3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

That is why I have a Nissan NV 3500 12 seater van. Large leather seats, V8 engine and lots of gears. Costs about $41,000. All my gear is secure. I can haul whatever I want by removing and relocating seats. The back doors open up all the way and you can have pallets loaded in. It is big enough to camp in. 

https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/commercial/nv-passenger.html

2021 Nissan NV Passenger on a mountain road with kayaks on top

A Nissan?.....You Heathen!

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(edited)

10 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I think that is a question for @Rob Plant. Otherwise try google as I don't know.

What I can tell you is that the UK motivation to go electric has a lot to do with the fact that oil and gas are very expensive imports for them. Their strategic plan is to generate electricity from their fantastic off shore wind resources and replace their dependence on foreign oil and gas with domestic electricity. So when you snidely point out that the subsidies are paid for by their taxpayers you completely ignore the practical and financial advantage to the country in doing so.

 

The tax incentives for company car drivers (which there are a lot) in the UK leasing EV's or hybrids compared to ICE is as per the table below. It makes no sense to drive anything other than EV, although I have chosen the hybrid as I do have to drive longer distances fairly regularly.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-faq/what-are-the-current-bik-bands-/3/

Historically the UK has always been one of the most expensive countries in Europe for electricity generation, see below the last 10 years prices, but there are a whole host of providers that you can switch to on-line in about 30 seconds all offering cheaper rates after you have been with your current energy provider for 1 year.

https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/418126/electricity-prices-for-households-in-the-uk/

The drive for wind power is unstoppable and we will be wholly reliant on wind, solar (believe it or not) and nuclear by 2050 but it will be more like 2035. There will be no coal by 2025 and then the gas plants will be mothballed. There has been a rise in electricity prices but nothing significant for 5 years really.

https://www.statista.com/topics/4924/wind-energy-industry-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

https://www.evwind.es/2020/08/06/uk-government-announces-plans-to-quadruple-offshore-wind-power-by-2030/76323

The price of gas (petrol) in the UK is also more than double what you pay in the US which makes EV's a whole lot more economical.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/221368/gas-prices-around-the-world/

The UK's oil + gas tier 1,2+3 suppliers are all diversifying into offshore wind farm suppliers, my company is also doing this otherwise our turnover will be compromised. We have recently supplied the super duplex clamping systems to the London Array which clamps the mooring system to the wind tower base.

https://londonarray.com/

 

 

Edited by Rob Plant
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8 hours ago, ronwagn said:

 Nothing snide about it. It is just factual. They have made their own energy choices and need to live with the or change them. They have plenty of natural gas underground. They can import LNG, or oil. No reason it has to be high priced. That is up to them. Their taxes and fees make it expensive. Natural gas or EVs make sense for greater London. They are now favoring the rich by taxing auto travel in London. They also have a great subway system. They have been doing things the renewable way. Bad results? You tell me.

Taxes per litre in England  https://www.askthecarexpert.com/fuel-tax/

Ron the tax has been this high way before any EV's were even mooted let alone built.

Our government has raped the tax payer for decades on fuel prices ever since the 1970's

You're barking up the wrong tree here, it has precisely nothing to do with EV's or renewables.

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(edited)

8 hours ago, ronwagn said:

They are now favoring the rich by taxing auto travel in London.

This is now being done in Birmingham as well. Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Leeds etc will all follow.

The reason is not to favour the rich but to try to improve the health of the people that live in these urban areas. There is plenty of public transport including bicycles to rent these days that are pretty much on every street corner in every city in the UK.

https://www.asthma.org.uk/about/media/facts-and-statistics

https://psnc.org.uk/services-commissioning/essential-facts-stats-and-quotes-relating-to-asthma/

https://consultation.wolverhampton.gov.uk/transport/west-midlands-cycle-hire-scheme/

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-bikes-for-employees

I'd happily pay a little more tax to save the lives of 3 people each and every day.

I applaud this move.

Edited by Rob Plant
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(edited)

Demand for oil and natural gas going forward looks solid.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-Renewable-Boom-Has-Barely-Impacted-Oil-Gas.html

"A decade ago, fossil fuels accounted for just over 80 percent of final energy consumption in the world. During the last ten years, renewable energy has boomed, and installations continue to soar to record highs. But oil, gas, and coal still represent over 80 percent of final energy consumption, despite the rising share of renewable energy in the world’s total energy consumption.

Fossil fuel use around the world hasn’t retreated despite the avalanche of net-zero pledges, significantly increased support to clean energy from governments, and record-high installations of solar and wind power in recent years."

Edited by Ecocharger

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13 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Petrol taxes have been the same in the UK for a decade. Since your article was written oil has returned to normal and the underlying cost of petrol in the UK has increased by 50%. 

They are taxing auto travel in London because of extreme congestion and the density of grid lock and pollution it causes. To avoid it just ride that great subway system you mention, take a taxi or get a low emission vehicle. 

They are having great results doing it the renewable way. 


Six companies are in talks with the UK about building so-called gigafactories for production of batteries for electric cars in moves that could secure the future of Britain’s automobile industry. Carmakers Ford and Nissan, conglomerates LG and Samsung, and start-ups Britishvolt and InoBat Auto are in discussions with the UK government or local authorities about locations for potential factories and financial support, according to people briefed on the talks. While Britishvolt has gone public with its project, the other companies’ discussions with the government or councils about gigafactories have so far been private. The plans by Nissan, the largest carmaker in the UK, were revealed by the Financial Times last month. The British government has put securing car battery investment at the heart of efforts to sustain the country’s auto industry, as ministers pursue ambitious plans to cut carbon emissions. The government’s plan to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030 and hybrids by 2035 will require the UK’s vehicle plants to shift to producing electric models.

https://www.ft.com/content/eeba6823-bffc-4f96-8f98-5722c7db43f6

 

 

Exactly, only government fiat, subsidies, and bans on ICE's can support the EV movement. Natural economic decisions would lead to a different outcome. The result, more expensive transportation, which will impact the poor disproportionately. 

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(edited)

The short-term result of government intervention into the market is not to reduce demand for oil, but to decrease the supply of oil. That can mean only one thing, an increase in the price of oil. Long-term calculations are unpredictable, given the frailty of the political environment.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Its-Too-Late-To-Avoid-A-Major-Oil-Supply-Crisis.html

"Soon the result of this key factor, a lack of new drilling will become apparent, and people will wonder where all the easy and cheap energy went."

Edited by Ecocharger

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