GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

OIl prices are way up which is great for EV sales:

According to Argonne National Lab (ANL) data sets analyzed by Zpryme, EV sales reached 53,779 units, representing a 19.2% increase over April 2021. On an annual basis, this represents an astronomical 329% increase compared to May 2020 EV sales of 12,536 vehicles. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

I suggested earlier that a mix of renewables , NG with carbon capture, pumped storage, Hydro, Nucs, batteries and possibly hydrogen is the way to go for a stable grid until renewables demonstrate they can cope with demand on their own. This is based on geography and the climate and whether they make economic sense, Ward gave me a rolling eye for suggesting this which I dont understand. Renewables arent the devil or the end of the oil and gas industry, in fact I still think the oil and gas industry will be a major player in our future for many decades to come. there are just too many everyday products that there are either no alternative to or no economic alternatives to.

Co2 is not the devil either, we need it to survive and it has been at least 10 times what it is in the earths history. Its only gone up 140 ppm since pre-industrial revolution days.

https://earth.org/data_visualization/a-brief-history-of-co2/

Pollution on the other hand is a problem and that should be tackled.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

 

European Commission Proposes Ban For ICE Cars From 2035 On

The end goal is zero-emission for all new cars from 2035 - which means that no car with an internal combustion engine will be allowed for the first registration. Only battery-electric cars (BEV) or hydrogen fuel cell cars (FCV) will comply (aside from some other exotic technologies).

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

13 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

 

Co2 is not the devil either, we need it to survive and it has been at least 10 times what it is in the earths history.

Humans didn't evolve or exist during any of those high CO2 regimes.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Trans-Alaska pipeline under threat from thawing permafrost

Structural integrity of the pipeline and potential oil spills are at risk.

Thawing permafrost threatens to undermine the supports holding up an elevated section of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, jeopardizing the structural integrity of one of the world’s largest oil pipelines and raising the potential of an oil spill in a delicate and remote landscape where it would be extremely difficult to clean up.

The slope of permafrost where an 810-foot section of pipeline is secured has started to shift as it thaws, causing several of the braces holding up the pipeline to tilt and bend, according to an analysis by the Alaska Department of Natural Resources. 

https://www.hcn.org/articles/climate-change-trans-alaska-pipeline-under-threat-from-thawing-permafrost

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

16 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

 

 Its only gone up 140 ppm since pre-industrial revolution days.

 

Which is a 50% increase since pre industry.

100 of those ppm happened in the fast 50 years and the rate is accelerating.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,544]

This has me scratching my head"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/climate/border-carbon-tax-united-states.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210714&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=54533837&segment_id=63487&user_id=68525f6837d33eab7f1facce57a96994

Democrats Call For a Tax on Imports From Polluting Countries

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 minutes ago, turbguy said:

This has me scratching my head"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/climate/border-carbon-tax-united-states.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210714&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=54533837&segment_id=63487&user_id=68525f6837d33eab7f1facce57a96994

Democrats Call For a Tax on Imports From Polluting Countries

Why does your head itch?

Europe just called for the same today.

[turbguy + 1,544]

41 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Why does your head itch?

Europe just called for the same today.

Some here might think that "coordination" isbeing done by a cabal.

We have seen that cabal.

It is US!

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

Democrats Call For a Tax on Imports From Polluting Countries

At least that would not be hypocritical of the Democrats for once... Everyone would agree on that, but for different reasons.  Of course the magnitude of the tariff details is the real sticking point. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Why does your head itch?

Europe just called for the same today.

Custards last stand comes to mind. And it is the last stand, make no mistake. I win you lose....I'm not sure why that phrase sticks in my mind

LMAO where in God's name did you come up with that?

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 7/13/2021 at 11:49 PM, turbguy said:

Then that would also effect fossil and nuc.

You think fossil doesn't use similar materials/services??

Check the articles above on lithium, copper and rare earth inputs.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 7/13/2021 at 11:54 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

OIl prices are way up which is great for EV sales:

According to Argonne National Lab (ANL) data sets analyzed by Zpryme, EV sales reached 53,779 units, representing a 19.2% increase over April 2021. On an annual basis, this represents an astronomical 329% increase compared to May 2020 EV sales of 12,536 vehicles. 

Going from 1% to 2% is also a 100% increase, or if you calculate it differently,  200% of the previous total.

Wonderful what you can do with numbers, if you are in the right spirit.

And your supposed reply has nothing to do with the red hot oil market. Understandably.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

20 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I suggested earlier that a mix of renewables , NG with carbon capture, pumped storage, Hydro, Nucs, batteries and possibly hydrogen is the way to go for a stable grid until renewables demonstrate they can cope with demand on their own. This is based on geography and the climate and whether they make economic sense, Ward gave me a rolling eye for suggesting this which I dont understand. Renewables arent the devil or the end of the oil and gas industry, in fact I still think the oil and gas industry will be a major player in our future for many decades to come. there are just too many everyday products that there are either no alternative to or no economic alternatives to.

Co2 is not the devil either, we need it to survive and it has been at least 10 times what it is in the earths history. Its only gone up 140 ppm since pre-industrial revolution days.

https://earth.org/data_visualization/a-brief-history-of-co2/

Pollution on the other hand is a problem and that should be tackled.

You and I are on the same wavelength, Rob. We just need to convince the slow burning minds in government.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

9 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

 

European Commission Proposes Ban For ICE Cars From 2035 On

The end goal is zero-emission for all new cars from 2035 - which means that no car with an internal combustion engine will be allowed for the first registration. Only battery-electric cars (BEV) or hydrogen fuel cell cars (FCV) will comply (aside from some other exotic technologies).

 

Again, long term projections are almost worthless in this type of discussion, the science changes by the day.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Humans didn't evolve or exist during any of those high CO2 regimes.

How would you know, Jay? You got any eye-witness accounts of human evolution?

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Which is a 50% increase since pre industry.

100 of those ppm happened in the fast 50 years and the rate is accelerating.

So? What is your point? Actually, you have no point here.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Trans-Alaska pipeline under threat from thawing permafrost

Structural integrity of the pipeline and potential oil spills are at risk.

Thawing permafrost threatens to undermine the supports holding up an elevated section of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, jeopardizing the structural integrity of one of the world’s largest oil pipelines and raising the potential of an oil spill in a delicate and remote landscape where it would be extremely difficult to clean up.

The slope of permafrost where an 810-foot section of pipeline is secured has started to shift as it thaws, causing several of the braces holding up the pipeline to tilt and bend, according to an analysis by the Alaska Department of Natural Resources. 

https://www.hcn.org/articles/climate-change-trans-alaska-pipeline-under-threat-from-thawing-permafrost

Oh, wow!!...a two day spill and a two day clean-up!! How can mankind survive??

Edited July 15, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

56 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

At least that would not be hypocritical of the Democrats for once... Everyone would agree on that, but for different reasons.  Of course the magnitude of the tariff details is the real sticking point. 

And sticking it to the poor masses who voted Democrat is another problem.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

42 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

How would you know, Jay? You got any eye-witness accounts of human evolution?

I suppose you are one of those people who think we rode dinosaurs.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Again, long term projections are almost worthless in this type of discussion, the science changes by the day.

No, it is another of the pesky ideas they are about to make law. Being only 14 years away European car companies will stop all investment in new ice and put all their money into EV development. Then before you know it they will be producing EVs and not ICE. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

11 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Humans didn't evolve or exist during any of those high CO2 regimes.

So are you saying humans wouldnt have evolved in higher C02 levels?

What evidence have you for this? or is it a blind guess/assumption?

5000ppm "could be harmful" for an extended length of time and 40000 definitely are.

"This could occur when exposed to levels above 5,000 ppm for many hours. At even higher levels of CO₂ can cause asphyxiation as it replaces oxygen in the blood-exposure to concentrations around 40,000 ppm is immediately dangerous to life and health."

What says humans (and other fauna) cant live just fine at 3000ppm or a lot higher, clearly some did when it was much higher than this or we wouldn't be here!

We're at 420ppm for Gods sake!

Still think we're all doomed?

Edited July 15, 2021 by Rob Plant

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

9 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Which is a 50% increase since pre industry.

100 of those ppm happened in the fast 50 years and the rate is accelerating.

50% of sod all is still sod all!

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

6 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

So are you saying humans wouldnt have evolved in higher C02 levels?

What evidence have you for this? or is it a blind guess/assumption?

5000ppm "could be harmful" for an extended length of time and 40000 definitely are.

"This could occur when exposed to levels above 5,000 ppm for many hours. At even higher levels of CO₂ can cause asphyxiation as it replaces oxygen in the blood-exposure to concentrations around 40,000 ppm is immediately dangerous to life and health."

What says humans (and other fauna) cant live just fine at 3000ppm or a lot higher, clearly some did when it was much higher than this or we wouldn't be here!

We're at 420ppm for Gods sake!

Still think we're all doomed?

Good grief!

Yes some animals and fauna lived at 3,000ppm but they weren't human or even close.

This is from the link you provided:

The last time we were at 3,000 was 200 million years ago. This is what we looked like then:

The entirety of the evolution of the monkeys, apes and us all happened in less than 400ppm. Your personal incredulity at the level only being 400ppm is some real Dunning Kruger. Since we did evolve at under 400ppm the burden of proof is on you to show that we will thrive in an environment of much higher CO2 and you have absolutely no proof that we will. You even seem to contradict yourself.

You say "What says humans (and other fauna) cant live just fine at 3000ppm or a lot higher," But just before that you state that 5,000 could be harmful. Are we supposed to run it up to those numbers and then think about doing something about it?

And there is a lot more to the world than just human physiology. The negative climate changes here in western N. America during my life time are dramatic and accelerating. 

Many of us don't want to run out your experiment for your amusement.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

6 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

50% of sod all is still sod all!

The Earth hasn't been over 400ppm in 20 million years. That is a hella lot of sod!