Ecocharger + 1,474 DL August 31, 2021 24 minutes ago, turbguy said: Steam coal is not going anywhere fast, that's for sure. It will be around for "a while", yet. In the meantime, the USA will continue to burn less, and less, of it. It will be more and more difficult to compete in any market with electric sources that use no fuel, no water, and produce negligible operational wastes. The move away from heat engines is really just starting. It takes about 10 years of development to gain 1% of thermal efficiency with heat engines. Today's BEST cycles (and they are NOT coal-fired) are complicated, with thermal efficiency of about 60% (+/-). So you throw away 40% of the energy input. And there ain't NOTHIN' "clean" about coal. The new coal-burning technology is clean, according to the industry standards. Unless you regard CO2 as "dirty". It looks like China and Asia are ramping up on coal use, it will be a standard source of energy going forward. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 August 31, 2021 Just now, Ecocharger said: Jay, during your recent vacation from here we solved that issue, Huge and growing demand for petro-chemicals will increase overall oil demand going forward. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Indias-Demand-For-Petrochemicals-Set-To-Surge-Tenfold-By-2050.html "Petrochemicals will be the key pillar of oil demand growth globally, both in the near and the long term, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said in its Oil 2021 annual report in March with forecasts through 2026.While growth in road transport fuel demand is set to slow to below 0.5 percent annually after 2023, sectors such as petrochemicals will boost overall oil demand, the IEA said. Despite the energy transition push in road transportation and electricity generation, some sectors – such as aviation, shipping, and petrochemicals – will continue to rely on oil for some time, the agency noted.The petrochemical industry will remain a pillar of growth to 2026, as ethane, LPG, and naphtha together are set to account for 70 percent of the projected increase in oil product demand, according to the IEA." Alberta heavy oil is highly undesirable for ethane, LPG and naptha production. Peak oil by 2030. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 August 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: The new coal-burning technology is clean, according to the industry standards. Unless you regard CO2 as "dirty". It looks like China and Asia are ramping up on coal use, it will be a standard source of energy going forward. Approvals for coal-fired power projects in China dropped sharply in the first half of the year after President Xi Jinping promised to reach peak coal consumption by 2025 . Over that period local authorities gave the green light to 24 coal-fired power plants with a combined capacity of 5.2 gigawatts – a 78.8 per cent decrease in capacity compared with the same period last year, according to research by Greenpeace. The research is based on data collated from provincial governments, and also showed that more than half the capacity was approved before Xi’s pledge at the Leaders Summit on Climate in April . He said China would strictly limit the increase in coal consumption over the next five years and start to scale down the use of coal from 2026. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3146368/chinese-coal-plant-approvals-slump-after-xi-jinping-pledges Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said: Approvals for coal-fired power projects in China dropped sharply in the first half of the year after President Xi Jinping promised to reach peak coal consumption by 2025 . Over that period local authorities gave the green light to 24 coal-fired power plants with a combined capacity of 5.2 gigawatts – a 78.8 per cent decrease in capacity compared with the same period last year, according to research by Greenpeace. The research is based on data collated from provincial governments, and also showed that more than half the capacity was approved before Xi’s pledge at the Leaders Summit on Climate in April . He said China would strictly limit the increase in coal consumption over the next five years and start to scale down the use of coal from 2026. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3146368/chinese-coal-plant-approvals-slump-after-xi-jinping-pledges Yah, we heard that "strictly limit" line before from the Chinese leader....didn't happen. They are ramping up coal production like crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL August 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said: Alberta heavy oil is highly undesirable for ethane, LPG and naptha production. Peak oil by 2030. That means more oil production in the good old U.S.A. and other lighter oil producers. Sounds good to me. I think that Alberta oil will be needed by the refiners. And, of course, you can't fool all of the people all of the time, the new climate science will be expanding its visibility as we go forward, and all of this hysterical squealing about climate disaster will terminate. Edited August 31, 2021 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL August 31, 2021 (edited) This is what happens when you substitute a high cost energy source for a lower cost energy source, just what you think would happen, https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Rising-Energy-Prices-Send-German-Inflation-To-13-Year-High.html Higher energy prices pushed Germany’s annual inflation to a 13-year high in August, as household energy, motor fuels, and food prices jumped, preliminary data showed on Monday. Spain also reported on Monday a jump in inflation to the highest in several years due to surging electricity prices, preliminary data from Spain’s National Statistics Institute showed. Edited August 31, 2021 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP August 31, 2021 (edited) On 8/29/2021 at 7:55 PM, Jay McKinsey said: HaHa, England is terrified that Scotland will leave and take all their offshore wind with them. By 2030 Scotland will be 100% renewable and exporting copious amounts of renewable electricity. By 2040 they are going to be the very wealthy wind powerhouse of Europe: Jay are you crazy??? England has the largest offshore wind farm in the world! Hornsea, and this is set to treble over the next few years. Just why would England be terrified of Scotland's tiny wind projects compared to our own? There are many other projects London Array, projects in the North sea and irish sea to complement these that literally dwarf Scotland's offshore wind projects. https://hornseaprojects.co.uk/ Scotland are heavily reliant on floating offshore wind which is very very expensive and the industry is in its infancy. Oh and England are begging Scotland to leave, as they have been and continue to be a massive drain on our wealth. Good riddance when they go and all Englishmen will be partying when it happens. Edited August 31, 2021 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 August 31, 2021 Just now, Rob Plant said: Jay are you crazy??? England has the largest offshore wind farm in the world! Hornsea, and this is set to treble over the next few years. Just why would England be terrified of Scotland's tiny wind projects compared to our own? There are many other projects London Array, projects in the North sea and irish sea to complement these that literally dwarf Scotland's offshore wind projects. https://hornseaprojects.co.uk/ Scotland are heavily reliant on floating offshore wind which is very very expensive and the industry is in its infancy. The entire offshore wind industry is in its infancy compared to what it is going to become over the coming decades. Floating turbines are going to drop dramatically in cost and Scotland has the best and most wind reserves. Oh and don't forget that N. Ireland will leave if Scotland does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP August 31, 2021 15 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: The entire offshore wind industry is in its infancy compared to what it is going to become over the coming decades. Floating turbines are going to drop dramatically in cost and Scotland has the best and most wind reserves. Oh and don't forget that N. Ireland will leave if Scotland does. Whatever happens floating will always be more expensive. Your map has all of the North East of England as blue and that's where the wind turbine structures are built and shipped from! Did you even read the link on Hornsea? As for Northern Ireland leaving IF Scotland does, you clearly haven't been watching the news for the last 60 years. There is zero chance that Northern Ireland will ever leave GB. The only way that will happen is if we beg Ireland to have it back and offer to re-home every protestant somewhere in England or Wales (and we don't have the space). Northern Ireland is an even bigger drain on England's wealth than Scotland is!!! Both of these "nations" are hugely subsidized by the government, take that away and they become some provincial non-entities and their standard of living plummets overnight. What you are saying is music to my ears as my taxes wont go to fund these nations but help build infrastructure in my own country. Unfortunately N.I will never leave but hopefully we can coax the Jocks to leave. Their oil and gas industry is a joke now anyway, all they have is wind and most of that comes out their ass! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 August 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Whatever happens floating will always be more expensive. Your map has all of the North East of England as blue and that's where the wind turbine structures are built and shipped from! Did you even read the link on Hornsea? As for Northern Ireland leaving IF Scotland does, SNIP standard of living plummets overnight. What you are saying is music to my ears as my taxes wont go to fund these nations but help build infrastructure in my own country. When the UK's #2 export is precious metals it doesn't mine.... Followed by vehicle produced by companies the UK does not own.... With a giant budget deficit And imports most of its food and energy(not as bad as Europe but, not good either, there is a reason Europe/UK are going all in on wind--> Solar is just an absurd joke in cloudy N. Europe) Somehow anyone in England should shut up regarding supposedly "supporting" other provinces. You are literally selling off the family jewels to keep the party rolling pretending nothing is wrong. Don't worry, USA's reckoning will be right behind the UK's delayed by a couple decades. Though at current pace.... maybe earlier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 August 31, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rob Plant said: Whatever happens floating will always be more expensive. Your map has all of the North East of England as blue and that's where the wind turbine structures are built and shipped from! Did you even read the link on Hornsea? As for Northern Ireland leaving IF Scotland does, you clearly haven't been watching the news for the last 60 years. There is zero chance that Northern Ireland will ever leave GB. The only way that will happen is if we beg Ireland to have it back and offer to re-home every protestant somewhere in England or Wales (and we don't have the space). Northern Ireland is an even bigger drain on England's wealth than Scotland is!!! Both of these "nations" are hugely subsidized by the government, take that away and they become some provincial non-entities and their standard of living plummets overnight. What you are saying is music to my ears as my taxes wont go to fund these nations but help build infrastructure in my own country. Unfortunately N.I will never leave but hopefully we can coax the Jocks to leave. Their oil and gas industry is a joke now anyway, all they have is wind and most of that comes out their ass! Floating will likely be the same cost or less expensive because they can have access to higher wind deep water areas and be much larger, increasing size of the turbine is the key factor in decreasing cost. Yeah i read the link on Hornsea, have you? You might also need a refresher on the geography of Great Britain. The blue area surrounds Scotland and just a little part of northern England. The red area surrounds England and Hornsea is solidly in the red. Well Scotland is going to be filthy rich selling all that offshore wind to the EU and as a MacKenzie (spelling got changed during immigration) I'm all for it. Who would possibly want to stay joined with a country that voted to give up all the power, benefits and wealth they had in being one of the three leaders of the most important trading bloc on the planet for um...uh...nothing! Are you enjoying having the whole world take advantage of you because they know you are desperate for trade deals? Recent Poll: Most respondents said they thought NI would still be part of the UK in 10 years time, but not in 25 years. In NI, 49% of people said if there was a border poll today they would vote to remain in the UK, with 43% backing a united Ireland and 8% undecided. The poll was commissioned by BBC NI's Spotlight programme. In the Republic of Ireland, where a vote would have to be held in parallel with any border poll in Northern Ireland, 51% said they would vote for a United Ireland, 27% would vote for Northern Ireland to stay in the UK and 22% were not sure.https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56777985 I think the growing numbers of "nones" are going to be the turning point. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tippling/2020/06/28/atheism-proportion-of-northern-ireland-nones-at-record-high/ Edited August 31, 2021 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP August 31, 2021 25 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Yeah i read the link on Hornsea, have you? You might also need a refresher on the geography of Great Britain. The blue area surrounds Scotland. The red area surrounds England and Hornsea is a long way from Scotland. No the blue area extends well below Newcastle (N.E England), ever been there Jay? No I didn't think so!! Regarding Hornsea that's exactly my point!! Hornsea is off the English coast not Scotland so why would we be "terrified of losing Scottish wind"??? Floating wont be cheaper than fixed offshore as the mooring structures will be costly to build and maintain. They will happen though because of NIMBY. England are doing just fine without the useless EU thank you. We now have our law making back, we now have our sovereignty back, we now have control on immigration rather than the "free movement of people" rubbish that they still have. These may be nothing to you but having our country back is very special thanks. As for making trade deals with other nations, what the hell is wrong with that??? Don't the US do that? Seems like a good idea to me. Scotland will never be rich off wind power Jay that's ridiculous and even you know it. Who is going to buy it as it will be more expensive than ours, plus we have the national grid complete with interconnectors to Europe. They'd have to build their own if they were a separate nation and that aint gonna be cheap. Scottish people love the idea of independence until they look at the financial reality and then they stay with the status quo as they did at the last vote. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 August 31, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: No the blue area extends well below Newcastle (N.E England), ever been there Jay? No I didn't think so!! Regarding Hornsea that's exactly my point!! Hornsea is off the English coast not Scotland so why would we be "terrified of losing Scottish wind"??? Floating wont be cheaper than fixed offshore as the mooring structures will be costly to build and maintain. They will happen though because of NIMBY. England are doing just fine without the useless EU thank you. We now have our law making back, we now have our sovereignty back, we now have control on immigration rather than the "free movement of people" rubbish that they still have. These may be nothing to you but having our country back is very special thanks. As for making trade deals with other nations, what the hell is wrong with that??? Don't the US do that? Seems like a good idea to me. Scotland will never be rich off wind power Jay that's ridiculous and even you know it. Who is going to buy it as it will be more expensive than ours, plus we have the national grid complete with interconnectors to Europe. They'd have to build their own if they were a separate nation and that aint gonna be cheap. Scottish people love the idea of independence until they look at the financial reality and then they stay with the status quo as they did at the last vote. Yes I have been there. Most of your ocean territory is red, not blue, and most of your current wind production is in the red. Hornsea is chicken feed compared to what is coming. What about that don't you understand? Scotland is going to out produce you in thirty years. The trade deals you are doing are lousy deals for the UK because you are desperate to make the deals and everyone knows it. Australia is going to destroy your ranching industry with their cheap imports and Japan gave you table scraps from their deal with the EU. Scottish wind isn't going to be more expensive than yours and the interconnect will be no big deal. The cost of undersea cable is dropping dramatically as the offshore wind industry grows. Plus the EU is the market and I'm sure they would like to have more suppliers than just England. Before voting to leave the UK also meant leaving the EU. Now they can leave and be supported by their wind sales to the EU. I'm sure they can work a better trade deal than you guys managed. They might even be fast tracked back into the EU. The EU will provide all the investment needed to scale that sweet Scottish wind to mega scale ASAP. Edited August 31, 2021 by Jay McKinsey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP August 31, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: Yes I have been there. Most of your ocean territory is red, not blue, and most of your current wind production is in the red. Hornsea is chicken feed compared to what is coming. What about that don't you understand? Scotland is going to out produce you in thirty years. The trade deals you are doing are lousy deals for the UK because you are desperate to make the deals and everyone knows it. Australia is going to destroy your ranching industry with their cheap imports and Japan gave you table scraps from their deal with the EU. Scottish wind isn't going to be more expensive than yours and the interconnect will be no big deal. The cost of undersea cable is dropping dramatically as the offshore wind industry grows. Plus the EU is the market and I'm sure they would like to have more suppliers than just England. Before voting to leave the UK also meant leaving the EU. Now they can leave and be supported by their wind sales to the EU. I'm sure they can work a better trade deal than you guys managed. They might even be fast tracked back into the EU. The EU will provide all the investment needed to scale that sweet Scottish wind to mega scale ASAP. All in your opinion, what is it like to live in your fantasy world Jay? Yep as you can see wont be long before Scotland overtake England's GDP! oh wait..... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1003902/uk-gdp-by-country-2018/ Edited August 31, 2021 by Rob Plant Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boat + 1,324 RG August 31, 2021 Echocharged drama queen is back with Alberta tar sands and China coal. Lol Next thing ya know he’ll say Trump won the election. My conspiracy is this is all a front to get into Sidney Panties or at least a free pillow. Let’s see some numbers queen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,544 August 31, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ecocharger said: The new coal-burning technology is clean, according to the industry standards. Unless you regard CO2 as "dirty". It looks like China and Asia are ramping up on coal use, it will be a standard source of energy going forward. If you have some link that describes the: Mining Transport Storage Combustion Waste retention and disposal of any coal, without generating pollutants, I would like to see that. Can SO2 be removed from the flue gas? Yup, almost all of it, with a considerable waste stream as a result. Can CO2 be removed from flue gas? Yup, almost 90% of it. At considerable capital and operating cost and consumption of a rather large chuck of plant gross output. Then you gotta do something with it. Can NOx be removed from flue gas? Yup, a lot of it, with a considerable capitol and operating cost, and another chuck of gross plant output. Can fly ash be removed? Yup, that's easy. Some of it can be used as portland cement. Can bottom ash be removed? Yup, all of it. That stuff goes straight to a dump. Can waste heat be removed? Yup. In fact you have to remove all of it. And there a LOT of that! Edited August 31, 2021 by turbguy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL August 31, 2021 6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: Floating will likely be the same cost or less expensive because they can have access to higher wind deep water areas and be much larger, increasing size of the turbine is the key factor in decreasing cost. Yeah i read the link on Hornsea, have you? You might also need a refresher on the geography of Great Britain. The blue area surrounds Scotland and just a little part of northern England. The red area surrounds England and Hornsea is solidly in the red. Well Scotland is going to be filthy rich selling all that offshore wind to the EU and as a MacKenzie (spelling got changed during immigration) I'm all for it. Who would possibly want to stay joined with a country that voted to give up all the power, benefits and wealth they had in being one of the three leaders of the most important trading bloc on the planet for um...uh...nothing! Are you enjoying having the whole world take advantage of you because they know you are desperate for trade deals? Recent Poll: Most respondents said they thought NI would still be part of the UK in 10 years time, but not in 25 years. In NI, 49% of people said if there was a border poll today they would vote to remain in the UK, with 43% backing a united Ireland and 8% undecided. The poll was commissioned by BBC NI's Spotlight programme. In the Republic of Ireland, where a vote would have to be held in parallel with any border poll in Northern Ireland, 51% said they would vote for a United Ireland, 27% would vote for Northern Ireland to stay in the UK and 22% were not sure.https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-56777985 I think the growing numbers of "nones" are going to be the turning point. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tippling/2020/06/28/atheism-proportion-of-northern-ireland-nones-at-record-high/ Again, future dreams are not relevant to the current scene, offshore wind is very non-competitive on a cost basis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL August 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Boat said: Echocharged drama queen is back with Alberta tar sands and China coal. Lol Next thing ya know he’ll say Trump won the election. My conspiracy is this is all a front to get into Sidney Panties or at least a free pillow. Let’s see some numbers queen. Just trying to inject some reality into the discussion, Boat...like the new climate science, some idea of the outrageous cost of the Green Dream, the ongoing demand for oil and coal. Reality is exciting, you should try some of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL August 31, 2021 4 hours ago, turbguy said: If you have some link that describes the: Mining Transport Storage Combustion Waste retention and disposal of any coal, without generating pollutants, I would like to see that. Can SO2 be removed from the flue gas? Yup, almost all of it, with a considerable waste stream as a result. Can CO2 be removed from flue gas? Yup, almost 90% of it. At considerable capital and operating cost and consumption of a rather large chuck of plant gross output. Then you gotta do something with it. Can NOx be removed from flue gas? Yup, a lot of it, with a considerable capitol and operating cost, and another chuck of gross plant output. Can fly ash be removed? Yup, that's easy. Some of it can be used as portland cement. Can bottom ash be removed? Yup, all of it. That stuff goes straight to a dump. Can waste heat be removed? Yup. In fact you have to remove all of it. And there a LOT of that! In other words, coal has a future. I guess that explains the massive ramp-up of coal production in China. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL August 31, 2021 (edited) China likes coal, and China likes oil, in a big way going forward. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-oil-demand-recovers-covid-impact-eases-more-quotas-eyed-2021-08-31/ "Chinese majors' crude stocks are very low, and once the government wraps up inspections and finalises punishments, teapots will once again import crude," Energy Aspects said in an Aug. 23 note." Edited August 31, 2021 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 August 31, 2021 On 8/30/2021 at 11:08 PM, turbguy said: As Edward O. Wilson expressed it so briefly: "ONE PLANET, ONE EXPERIMENT" ...and we only at the beginning! The real issue is to avoid the "end". THAT will take more than blind luck. that might not be totally true. Things get better through improvisation from what did not work to what actually works. As lives are getting easier, what actually works turned into what couldn't or won't work........... People grew up differently nowadays. Sometimes, you probably rather not want to know what the youngs are thinking........ On 8/31/2021 at 1:14 AM, QuarterCenturyVet said: California's problems are much more than just socialism, bud. You guys are a net drain on everything around you. From electricity to water and illegal immigrants to cartel drugs. You need desalination and nuclear energy. Full stop. https://phys.org/news/2021-08-year-drought-west-desalination-solution.html reverse osmosis is a lot of work....... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis Wondering if it has been useful? Any story sharing from those who have tried it before? Soldiers? Something caught my interest in that link...... thermal energy storage.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage Although not fully comprehending it yet, the info highlights a diverging path from dispute on batteries and renewables........ There seems to be something else than battery as energy storage substance.......... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 August 31, 2021 (edited) Any guess what this picture indicates? the design innovates with material and plays with structure. It builds flat and concave rooftop that could be filled by water, in a heavy rainfall zone....... It is testing the strength of the material, bamboo, used, may be to find out how long it will last........ + ~ + Point to ponder: The right effort ought to be used at the right place to bring out the best effect...... Battery might be the same...... Edited August 31, 2021 by specinho Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,544 August 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Ecocharger said: In other words, coal has a future. I guess that explains the massive ramp-up of coal production in China. Yes, coal will be a participant in the energy sector for some time. It's future is bleak... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,544 August 31, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, specinho said: On 8/30/2021 at 9:08 AM, turbguy said: As Edward O. Wilson expressed it so briefly: "ONE PLANET, ONE EXPERIMENT" ...and we only at the beginning! The real issue is to avoid the "end". THAT will take more than blind luck. that might not be totally true. Things get better through improvisation from what did not work to what actually works. As lives are getting easier, what actually works turned into what couldn't or won't work........... People grew up differently nowadays. Sometimes, you probably rather not want to know what the youngs are thinking........ Oh? You have another planet up your sleeve? I'm ALL ears!! Edited August 31, 2021 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbguy + 1,544 August 31, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ecocharger said: In other words, coal has a future. I guess that explains the massive ramp-up of coal production in China. In other word's: "WHERE'S THE BEEF"? (the clean coal "link"). Edited August 31, 2021 by turbguy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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