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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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23 minutes ago, turbguy said:

In other word's:

"WHERE'S THE BEEF"?

(the clean coal "link").

Coal looks very clean with the newer technology, only where the old technology is still used, as in China, are there any problems. Where do you see problems today with coal? Let me see the beef!

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3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Coal looks very clean with the newer technology, only where the old technology is still used, as in China, are there any problems. Where do you see problems today with coal? Let me see the beef!

That's easy:

  • Mining
  • Transport
  • Storage (including runnoff control)
  • Combustion
  • Waste disposal

Coal combustion is "cleaner", but still REALLY DIRTY!

How much time have YOU spent in modern power houses, coal mines/prep-plants, railroad transport?

BTW, Look at this, burning thousands of gallons of fuel oil to more this black stuff to some pile hundreds of miles away, then burning more fuel moving the empties back to be re-filled!  And, thanks for building this great road out in the middle of nowhere, too!!

Hey, they only use 40% of the energy of this stuff, and throw the rest away!

And that's just the transport...

A large unit (not plant, UNIT) burns about 2 to 4 HOPPER CARS of this stuff every HOUR!

Clipboard02.jpg

Edited by turbguy
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4 hours ago, turbguy said:

That's easy:

  • Mining
  • Transport
  • Storage (including runnoff control)
  • Combustion
  • Waste disposal

Coal combustion is "cleaner", but still REALLY DIRTY!

How much time have YOU spent in modern power houses, coal mines/prep-plants, railroad transport?

BTW, Look at this, burning thousands of gallons of fuel oil to more this black stuff to some pile hundreds of miles away, then burning more fuel moving the empties back to be re-filled!  And, thanks for building this great road out in the middle of nowhere, too!!

Hey, they only use 40% of the energy of this stuff, and throw the rest away!

And that's just the transport...

A large unit (not plant, UNIT) burns about 2 to 4 HOPPER CARS of this stuff every HOUR!

Clipboard02.jpg

I can live with this, as long as I don't have to breathe it, and I don't with the newer technology.

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1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

I can live with this, as long as I don't have to breathe it, and I don't with the newer technology.

Glad you can live with (and pay for) it.

Just ignore the rest of the filth required.

If one mile of this trackage right-of-way were covered with solar panels (that use zero fuel or water) you could have generated about 1 MW of power, average, over a sunny day/night.

In about three or four miles, YOU COULD COMPLETELY POWER THOSE TWO LOCOMOTIVES!

Materials/labor cost to much?  How much was used constructing that "road"???

"Nothing to see here".

Edited by turbguy
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1 hour ago, turbguy said:

Glad you can live with (and pay for) it.

Just ignore the rest of the filth required."Nothing to see here".

Let me explain it this way. In 2012 which was peak coal consumption in Texas, hauling coal from Gillette to the WA Parish Units took 6 gallons of imported oil to refine the diesel  to move 1 ton of coal  and return the empty cars and their engines to Gillette. The  total cost for diesel including logistics of the importing tanker was $950  million. You can go to the EPA records for each plant and find the toms of coal, SO2, NOX CO2 mercury, bismuth , PM10 and PM2.5 and how many gigajoules of waste heat plus waste heat from 300 million gallons of diesel and that figures 1 coal plant with 4 660mw units. This plant added 1 billion dollars to the US trade deficit on margin.

Edited by nsdp
spelling
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5 minutes ago, nsdp said:

Let me explain it this was. In 2012 which was peak coal consumption in Texas, hauling coal from Gillette to the WA Parish Units took 6 gallons of imported oil to refine the diesel  to move 1 ton of coal  and return the empty cars and their engines to Gillette. The  total cost for diesel including logistics of the importing tanker was $950  million. You can go to the EPA records for each plant and find the toms of coal, SO2, NOX CO2 mercury, bismuth , PM10 and PM2.5 and how many gigajoules of waste heat plus waste heat from 300 million gallons of diesel and that figures 1 coal plant with 4 660mw units. This plant added 1 billion dollars to the US trade deficit on margin.

...and that's JUST THE TRANSPORT!

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2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

I can live with this, as long as I don't have to breathe it, and I don't with the newer technology.

Ignorance is bliss.  You're selling out to the Chinese Comrade Xi Ching-- Consequences of Owing Debt to the Chinese https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/080615/china-owns-us-debt-how-much.asp

Edited by nsdp

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4 minutes ago, nsdp said:

Ignorance is bliss.

...or:

"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him".

Tolstoy

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On 8/31/2021 at 10:55 AM, Rob Plant said:

Scotland are heavily reliant on floating offshore wind which is very very expensive and the industry is in its infancy.

Sort of. Turbine tech is the same and whilst it is technically true that floating wind is new tech there's a big supply-chain in O&G that can easily be adapted... Scaling up could happen very quickly... 

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3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Sort of. Turbine tech is the same and whilst it is technically true that floating wind is new tech there's a big supply-chain in O&G that can easily be adapted... Scaling up could happen very quickly... 

Don't get me wrong Rasmus I hope it does become significantly cheaper through scaling up, but I don't see how it can ever be as cheap as onshore or fixed offshore for that matter. I agree that most of the European oil and gas supply chain are working with wind farm projects these days, indeed a lot of oil majors such as Equinor have their own floating offshore wind tower/turbine factories https://www.equinor.com/en/what-we-do/floating-wind.html

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16 hours ago, nsdp said:

Let me explain it this way. In 2012 which was peak coal consumption in Texas, hauling coal from Gillette to the WA Parish Units took 6 gallons of imported oil to refine the diesel  to move 1 ton of coal  and return the empty cars and their engines to Gillette. The  total cost for diesel including logistics of the importing tanker was $950  million. You can go to the EPA records for each plant and find the toms of coal, SO2, NOX CO2 mercury, bismuth , PM10 and PM2.5 and how many gigajoules of waste heat plus waste heat from 300 million gallons of diesel and that figures 1 coal plant with 4 660mw units. This plant added 1 billion dollars to the US trade deficit on margin.

The market decides...if the use of coal is uneconomic, it will fade away. Otherwise, as in China and India, coal will be used in increasing quantities.

Edited by Ecocharger

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20 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The market decides...if the use of coal is uneconomic, it will fade away, Otherwise, as in China and India, coal will be used in increasing quantities.

Agreed. The market will decide.  It has decided.

Coal in the USA costs to much for most plants, even without considering "externalities".

Wait until those externalities kick in!

It will take a while for that to happen in China and India.

And it will happen.

Edited by turbguy

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10 minutes ago, turbguy said:

Agreed. The market will decide.  It has decided.

Coal costs to much for most plants, even without considering "externalities".

Wait until those externalities kick in!

It will take a while for that to happen in China and India.

And it will happen.

It already has in China Life expectancy Northern China https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/pollution-cutting-life-expectancy-in-north-china-by-more-than-five-years-1.1458841

Pollution cutting

 Life expectancy in north China by more than five years

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14 hours ago, turbguy said:

Agreed. The market will decide.  It has decided.

Coal in the USA costs to much for most plants, even without considering "externalities".

Wait until those externalities kick in!

It will take a while for that to happen in China and India.

And it will happen.

It will probably not happen.

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2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

It will probably not happen.

It already has in the USA.

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3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

It will probably not happen.

The Chairman of Coal India disagrees with you.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/worlds-largest-coal-miner-coal-095720655.html

 

"Coal as you know, we're going to lose business in the next two, three decades. Solar will take over (from) coal slowly as a major energy provider in the coming years," Agarwal said in an interview.

And keep in mind that the economics here is buoyed by public sector financing so it is subject to sudden shifts in governmental policies.  Private sector financing (market based) for large coal projects has dramatically plummeted even in the emerging world. 

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3 minutes ago, surrept33 said:

 

The Chairman of Coal India disagrees with you.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/worlds-largest-coal-miner-coal-095720655.html

 

"Coal as you know, we're going to lose business in the next two, three decades. Solar will take over (from) coal slowly as a major energy provider in the coming years," Agarwal said in an interview.

And keep in mind that the economics here is buoyed by public sector financing so it is subject to sudden shifts in governmental policies.  Private sector financing (market based) for large coal projects has dramatically plummeted even in the emerging world. 

Coal is dead, gas is the fix before renewables take over

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1 hour ago, surrept33 said:

 

The Chairman of Coal India disagrees with you.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/worlds-largest-coal-miner-coal-095720655.html

 

"Coal as you know, we're going to lose business in the next two, three decades. Solar will take over (from) coal slowly as a major energy provider in the coming years," Agarwal said in an interview.

And keep in mind that the economics here is buoyed by public sector financing so it is subject to sudden shifts in governmental policies.  Private sector financing (market based) for large coal projects has dramatically plummeted even in the emerging world. 

Long distance prediction, usually wrong.

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(edited)

Oil is on another leap into the stratosphere.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/WTI-Oil-Jumps-Above-70-On-Bullish-US-Demand-Data.html

"The OPEC+ decision from Wednesday to proceed with the plans to continue easing cuts by another 400,000 bpd in October also supported oil prices, despite lingering fears about the surge in COVID cases. “Agreeing to another increase while the world is still battling various virus variants highlights the group’s confidence in rising demand, but also that they see $70 as an acceptable price level for now,” Saxo Bank said in a daily commentary today. “In the US total oil products supplied, a proxy for demand, hit the highest level since at least 1990. Together with soaring gas prices leading to more fuel burns in Asia as well as production lost from hurricane Ida we believe prices may soon find support,” the bank’s strategy team added."

Edited by Ecocharger

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1 hour ago, turbguy said:

It already has in the USA.

Not in Asia.

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4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Not in Asia.

So?

They will "learn".

 

 

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5 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Oil is on another leap into the stratosphere.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/WTI-Oil-Jumps-Above-70-On-Bullish-US-Demand-Data.html

"The OPEC+ decision from Wednesday to proceed with the plans to continue easing cuts by another 400,000 bpd in October also supported oil prices, despite lingering fears about the surge in COVID cases. “Agreeing to another increase while the world is still battling various virus variants highlights the group’s confidence in rising demand, but also that they see $70 as an acceptable price level for now,” Saxo Bank said in a daily commentary today. “In the US total oil products supplied, a proxy for demand, hit the highest level since at least 1990. Together with soaring gas prices leading to more fuel burns in Asia as well as production lost from hurricane Ida we believe prices may soon find support,” the bank’s strategy team added."

You do know that as price rises...

...demand drops?

 

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(edited)

15 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

You have an unusual talent for irrelevant references..

No you would have to add another 100 points to your IQ and complete the 8th grade to understand.

a COUPLE OF BONUS CLUES. DOW, MONSANTO, LOVE CANAL

 

Edited by nsdp
left out Monsanto

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