GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 4/27/2021 at 1:10 PM, Ecocharger said:

Many of Trump's orders were to overturn Obama's orders....you have to subtract that number from the Trump total.

Now, here are some other inconvenient facts which keep getting in the way of dictators.

https://www.mdpi.com/2225-1154/8/11/130/htm

"Our study provides a theoretically-unified explanation of contemporary global warming and other climate milestones based on natural climate cycles driven by the Sun."

The current craze by world leaders to control the sun is like the legendary King Canute who ordered the tides to stop creating water levels. That did not work, either.

I don't know what is funnier, the way you believe your own BS "science" or your perfectly good observation that the cure may be worse than the problem  Personally, I am a greenie and want action on climate change, but as far as I am concerned, the problem is a massive market failure and it is largely up to the market to fix it. I hate big brother just as much as you do, but sometimes a bit of big brother is a good thing. As long as it is temporary and measured. But yeah, the bastards will take a mile if given an inch. I scratch my head every time I see a woke "thing" (am being gender neutral) protesting against nuclear  I say thing because I really don't know what they are. Clearly not human, no brain whatsover  I once got booted of Twitter simply for observing that AOC had the IQ of a rotten carrot. As a greenie with degrees in physics, environmental and agricultural science, plus business, I can tell you that we have already lost the war against climate change. Half the planet will become uninhabitable by 2050, and there ain't nothing we can do about it. We can thank China for that. 

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 4/28/2021 at 12:29 AM, Ecocharger said:

Thanks for the acknowledgement of the compelling nature of the new solar research, which has now changed the playing field.

Yes, of course toxic chemicals should be eliminated from ICE and other sources, which is now being done. Toxic emissions are now getting driven down to zero from tailpipes, and more improvement is forthcoming. Also, the  new coal-burning technologies have achieved near zero toxic emissions.

But claiming that CO2 was a "pollutant" was always an absurd allegation, we need CO2 to survive as a species. Perhaps some people believe that depopulation by way of starvation would solve all of our problems.

Hmmm... it could be arranged?!?

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 4/28/2021 at 12:29 AM, Ecocharger said:

Thanks for the acknowledgement of the compelling nature of the new solar research, which has now changed the playing field.

Yes, of course toxic chemicals should be eliminated from ICE and other sources, which is now being done. Toxic emissions are now getting driven down to zero from tailpipes, and more improvement is forthcoming. Also, the  new coal-burning technologies have achieved near zero toxic emissions.

But claiming that CO2 was a "pollutant" was always an absurd allegation, we need CO2 to survive as a species. Perhaps some people believe that depopulation by way of starvation would solve all of our problems.

Hmmm... it could be arranged?!?

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:53 AM, Ecocharger said:

Again, you are trying to link CO2 with global warming, which is a fallacy. Global warming is related to solar cycles.

Ecocharger, I hate to tell you this but we have been experiencing a Maunder minimum for the last 12 years and the average minimum lasts 14 years. In a few years, sun spot activity will return to normal and climate change will accelerate even more quickly. There are those who are woke but blind, and there are those that are just plain blind. Open your eyes? Our great grand-kids will have to move to Antarctica once the ice is gone. End of story. 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

5 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes I learned economics far beyond what you understand. The market is a tool not a god. The market does not provide the best solution in all situations because it does not have perfect information and has some significant failure points. It needs to be properly regulated and goals set. The role of the market is then to find and implement an efficient method for achieving those goals. 

You have not shown any economic analysis here, Jay, so I wonder what you actually studied. Whenever government thinks that it knows better than the market, we always get wild trouble, like right now.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Wombat1 said:

Ecocharger, I hate to tell you this but we have been experiencing a Maunder minimum for the last 12 years and the average minimum lasts 14 years. In a few years, sun spot activity will return to normal and climate change will accelerate even more quickly. There are those who are woke but blind, and there are those that are just plain blind. Open your eyes? Our great grand-kids will have to move to Antarctica once the ice is gone. End of story. 

Good to see your acknowledgment of the new research on solar cycles and climate change....there is hope for this generation yet.

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 7/17/2021 at 5:27 AM, Eyes Wide Open said:

A woken ZPG....Hmm a bounty does come to mind.

I am also a woken ZPG in a way, but I believe that Mother Earth has a bounty on all of us. She will become violent long before we do. Her hurricanes, droughts, fires and earthquakes are but the beginning. When she gets really angry, she will withdraw her ecosystem services altogether. Who knows how she will do it? Super-volcano? Gulf stream shutdown? Super-hurricane like in the movies that draws in air from the upper atmosphere and snap-freezes the planet like what happened to the woolly mammoths? In the meantime, the cost of food and house insurance will continue to become unattainable for most. We will slowly go bankrupt, then very quickly? In a way, I am also that silly Trumpist that boat talks about. Would have voted for him if I were American. Why? I do not believe that 8 billion people have a "right" to live a Western lifestyle until such a situation can be made sustainable. But the world's resources are finite. Time to start conserving and recycling them? Fossil fuels are far too valuable for future generations that will need gas to make fertilizer. Why waste the stuff by burning to produce energy? So I am uneasy with both sides of politics. Just want SUSTAINABLE development. But of course, that will not happen. I will continue to invest in oil and gas companies until Hydrogen becomes available. And until the woke accept that more nuclear is necessary. If people can't use their brains and they vote for extremists on both sides that like to use issues such as climate change to divide and conquer us, what can I do?  And what is the point in spending a fortune on renewables if countries such as Brazil and Indonesia etc are going to cut down all the rainforests anyway? Indeed, I might be helping the environment by investing in an Australian coal mine that has minimal impact compared to an Indonesian one that requires rainforest to be chopped down first? But American greenies are trying to shut down my country's coal industry so that the Indonesian rainforest gets chopped down to access low-quality coal? And they are anti-nuclear? And they treat Australia like a climate pariah even though we will reach net-zero about 85 years before the USA does? We actually will do it by 2050-2060. USA will take at least a century? As for China, every year they build more coal-fired power plants than the entire Australian fleet that is soon to disappear. But the USA keeps financing them? What a wonderful ally. How many pandemics is the USA willing to put up with? And why did you fund the Wuhan institute of biological warfare? Not you personally Mr Wide Eyes, but can you see what a great threat the American Communist is to a country like Australia? And we have crunched the numbers and see that the USA has turned permanently blue. We have the same trend, as does Europe. Not good. Am I a bit confused and perplexed? You bet. What do you expect from a  conservatively minded toxic male greenie with a very high IQ?  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

15 hours ago, wrs said:

With NG at $5/mcf and climbing, California is adding NG generation to make up the shortfall of the closed nukes and failure of solar and wind to fill the gap.  I think electric rates are going to be rising significantly and we will see how much people like paying up to charge their cars.

Biden is purposely intent on raising fossil fuel prices so that people will look for more expensive wind and solar sources to go along with his green propaganda. The whole country is watching what happens in California. Prices of all kinds and taxes are skyrocketing. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 9/9/2021 at 5:24 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

The dramatic increase in cost for coal and natural gas makes solar and wind more competitive than ever before. 

Natural gas is so abundant all around the world that prices will drop over time. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

23 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Oh they are quite aware of the situation and that if they don't get it fixed soon they are in big trouble.

 

 

In trouble with who? The United Nations?

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 9/10/2021 at 12:07 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Oh they are quite aware of the situation and that if they don't get it fixed soon they are in big trouble.

 

 

The UN is giving the Chinese a free pass on coal usage, the UN only blames the U.S. and Europe for using coal. 

That's life, that's how it works at the good old UN.

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 8/3/2021 at 12:50 PM, Ecocharger said:

Oil is king in the American economy.

"Despite the impact the pandemic had on U.S. oil production, the U.S. remained the world’s top oil producer** at 11.3 million BPD. Russia and Saudi Arabia retained their positions at #2 and #3. However, Saudi Arabia and other OPEC countries engaged in production cuts in 2020 in response to the pandemic.

 

Note that these production numbers are for crude oil and lease condensate. The U.S. also leads all countries in the production of natural gas liquids (NGLs), which partially end up in the oil products supply chain. So, if NGLs are included, the U.S. has an even larger lead over Russia and Saudi Arabia.

The Review reports that global proved oil reserves declined by 0.1% to 1.72 trillion barrels. Venezuela continues to claim the most reserves with 304 billion barrels, but this is primarily extra heavy crude in the Orinoco Belt. In order to qualify as proved reserves, oil needs to be technically and economically recoverable at prevailing oil prices. That may not be the case with this heavy oil. In that case, Saudi Arabia’s 298 billion barrels would lead all countries."

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-US-Retains-Its-Crown-As-Worlds-Top-Oil-Producer.html

All that oil & gas, but still the world's largest trade deficit, world's largest govt and household debts, and lowest median wage in the OECD. Congratulations! Really inspires confidence in your allies that you will remain a super-power for decades to come. Bravo. 

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 7/31/2021 at 5:54 AM, Ecocharger said:

The CO2 folks are running too fast in the opposite direction to engage in debate. The CO2 models have been completely discredited, for reasons which I outlined earlier. The CO2 folks would debate if they were convinced that they were right.

Nope. The CO2 folks know that the world is screwed even if we were to get to net zero by 2050. No point in debating with lunatics that literally don't know when their pants are on fire. Business is doing everything they can in a mad scramble to reduce the damage, but it won't make a lick of difference. The only reason that smart countries are racing to get to net zero is because they know it is the only way to remain financially viable down the track when the shit really hits the fan. Imagine the price of food in 20 years? Oil and LNG? Home insurance? All at a time when the population age structure hits it's peak and productivity will collapse because the fourth and final tech revolution will be fully matured? Only countries that export green energy will have much of a future. The rest of the planet will revert to 3rd world conditions. 

[Wombat1 + 33]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

Natural gas is so abundant all around the world that prices will drop over time. 

I doubt it Ron. I think the cost of all forms of energy are going to rise. We are facing a global energy crunch now, it has long been warned about and has just begun. I reckon that demand is going to outstrip supply for the next 20 years. Actually has little to do with climate policies or how many reserves of fossil fuels we have. Has more to do with the ridiculous amount of volatility in commodity markets due to financial speculation. Oil and gas companies, as well as coal companies, have seen prices so volatile for the last 2 decades that they are not willing to invest even if there wasn't the added burden of climate policy uncertainty. At the moment, costs for oil and gas companies are very low, but the moment the oil price hits $80 they face a problem. If they rapidly ramp up production, labour costs etc suddenly shoot up again and it's back to square one. There is simply no way to make a decent profit out of new production any more. Only the lowest-cost producers like Qatar and Russia can do it. So capex will be restrained and companies will just milk existing assets for as much as they can get. Nobody has made any money out of energy stocks over the last 2 decades despite the near tripling of global energy demand. Except the traders. Dividends and capital growth have been non-existent. And the companies still have huge debts that won't be cleared for a decade. I am afraid that China with their covid weapon have almost decimated the Western oil & gas industry. Now they will be at the mercy of OPEC. Talk about Karma  

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 7/8/2021 at 9:56 AM, QuarterCenturyVet said:

I don't really care where he comes from. I could have sworn he was making some noise about how well his country (Australia) managed the plandemic a few months ago. 

Nah, I doubt it was boat. Probably me. Australia is still kicking butt against China's plandemic that was aided and abetted by the USA. Dunno how you could be dumb enough to fund a virus lab in Wuhan but truth is stranger than fiction. I might be a bit of a greenie, but I am also pro-Trump and anti-China. Anti-communist and anti left wing loonies. I am invested in an Australian LNG company but don't support the coal industry because I think China has burnt more than their fair share of the stuff. I hate greenies that are opposed to nuclear. Basically anybody that is stupid and irrational, including those that think they know something about climate science and wouldn't have a clue how deadly climate change is becoming. I am a realist. I want to see strong action on climate change but don't see any good pathway. Most countries are doing what they can, which is all anyone can ask, but ultimately, the rain-forests will still be wiped out and concrete will be produced, cows will burp, aircraft will fly, so the only solution is to create the Hydrogen economy. This will require vast amounts of green energy and cost about $100 trillion, so it certainly ain't gonna happen overnight. And the Carbon we shove in the atmosphere will be there for a thousand years. And that will melt all the ice on Greenland and Antarctica over the same time period. The Sea level will rise by 60 metres over 1000 years unless our grandkids find a way to re-forest the planet and learn to love chemtrails. Maybe they will have nuclear fusion so it will be possible to run mechanical trees in an efficient manner. I blame the greenies for banning hydro and nuclear, 50% of our emissions would not have occurred if not for their stupidity. And they won't change their ways and listen to a physicist with an environmental science degree such as myself. So bugger them all. May as well try to reduce coal consumption and take advantage of cheap solar and wind power, but no way would I buy one of those Tesla pieces of crap and use electricity that is still produced 60% by coal to charge it? 

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 5/22/2021 at 10:29 PM, Old-Ruffneck said:

Here is a better site with interaction with future, closed, proposed plants in the real near future. 

Bloomberg Global Coal Countdown (bloombergcoalcountdown.com)

China won't play by the Paris Accord and is in the process of doubling down on more plants. So no matter how many EU and USA take down is dwarfed by China's thirst for more. Jay's graph doesn't have China on it. 

Good. That means China will face sanctions by the rest of the world. Hopefully we can provoke them into war.

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 5/2/2021 at 12:54 PM, turbguy said:

May I have a reference to that equation?  Hopefully no tensor analysis is required.

Don't worry, Green's theorem makes it all simple

 

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 4/29/2021 at 9:18 AM, ronwagn said:

Yes. It is common knowledge that mammoths and other animals died suddenly in Siberia from a fast freeze, not from hot weather. Their bodies still have viable DNA. The last ice age is the most reputable fact of geological time. There is no more credible fact that would threaten mankind. 

Yeah, fast freezes and ice ages are associated with pole shifts. The pole shifts (like the one we seem to be entering now), are associated with prior warming due to CO2 that melts the ice caps, increasing the tidal bulge around the equator which squeezes the mantle such that the magma flows in the opposite direction and flips the magnetic field. 

[turbguy + 1,544]

7 hours ago, Wombat1 said:

Nah, I doubt it was boat. Probably me. Australia is still kicking butt against China's plandemic that was aided and abetted by the USA. Dunno how you could be dumb enough to fund a virus lab in Wuhan but truth is stranger than fiction. I might be a bit of a greenie, but I am also pro-Trump and anti-China. Anti-communist and anti left wing loonies. I am invested in an Australian LNG company but don't support the coal industry because I think China has burnt more than their fair share of the stuff. I hate greenies that are opposed to nuclear. Basically anybody that is stupid and irrational, including those that think they know something about climate science and wouldn't have a clue how deadly climate change is becoming. I am a realist. I want to see strong action on climate change but don't see any good pathway. Most countries are doing what they can, which is all anyone can ask, but ultimately, the rain-forests will still be wiped out and concrete will be produced, cows will burp, aircraft will fly, so the only solution is to create the Hydrogen economy. This will require vast amounts of green energy and cost about $100 trillion, so it certainly ain't gonna happen overnight. And the Carbon we shove in the atmosphere will be there for a thousand years. And that will melt all the ice on Greenland and Antarctica over the same time period. The Sea level will rise by 60 metres over 1000 years unless our grandkids find a way to re-forest the planet and learn to love chemtrails. Maybe they will have nuclear fusion so it will be possible to run mechanical trees in an efficient manner. I blame the greenies for banning hydro and nuclear, 50% of our emissions would not have occurred if not for their stupidity. And they won't change their ways and listen to a physicist with an environmental science degree such as myself. So bugger them all. May as well try to reduce coal consumption and take advantage of cheap solar and wind power, but no way would I buy one of those Tesla pieces of crap and use electricity that is still produced 60% by coal to charge it? 

Have you even driven in a Tesla?

You should.

It just might change your opinion.

Powered by 60% coal at a typical thermal efficiency of 35% (+/-), delivering 95%+ of that to the tires, might be a bit better than burning highly refined liquid product that only delivers 25% max to the tires.

Also, do not ignore CO2 sinks as a way of the planet's dealing with CO2 in the atmosphere.   

That being said, it is impossible for humans to determine the outcome of a chaotic system in the long term. Vanishingly small differences in initial conditions produce huge changes in outcome.

Edited September 11, 2021 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

12 hours ago, Wombat1 said:

Nope. The CO2 folks know that the world is screwed even if we were to get to net zero by 2050. No point in debating with lunatics that literally don't know when their pants are on fire. Business is doing everything they can in a mad scramble to reduce the damage, but it won't make a lick of difference. The only reason that smart countries are racing to get to net zero is because they know it is the only way to remain financially viable down the track when the shit really hits the fan. Imagine the price of food in 20 years? Oil and LNG? Home insurance? All at a time when the population age structure hits it's peak and productivity will collapse because the fourth and final tech revolution will be fully matured? Only countries that export green energy will have much of a future. The rest of the planet will revert to 3rd world conditions. 

If we listen to the climate alarmists, we will indeed revert to Third World status. That would make the Greenies happy, but not most people.

The best new climate science shows that climate change is driven primarily by solar variables, over which you and I can huff and puff all day without making any impact on the sun's activity. Like old King Canute ordering the tides to stop moving.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Europe has quickly adopted a war against CO2 which has resulted in a self-induced economic strangulation of the continent. This is what happens when economic policies are guided by unfounded panic and poorly designed climate models.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Record-Breaking-Energy-Prices-Could-Soar-Even-Higher-In-Europe.html

Now the Green Dream administrators of European economies are crying out for increased output of coal and natural gas,

"Demand for coal has increased dramatically which has raised prices by 70 percent this year. Besides higher demand, the costs for carbon emission certificates have further increased the financial pressure. Speculators and higher demand are the main driving factors behind the record ETS prices. Coal, which emits twice the amount of CO2 compared to natural gas, has a higher need for these certificates.

The most interesting part, arguably, of the growing electricity bill on the continent, is the lack of sufficient volumes of natural gas. European production has been decreasing steadily over the years due to technical and political reasons. Europe’s single largest gas field in the north of the Netherlands is being closed after residents successfully lobbied for closure due to extraction-induced tremors in the production area. The most obvious solution would be more imports, but both LNG and piped natural gas exporters have failed to meet demand."

Edited September 11, 2021 by Ecocharger

[ronwagn + 6,290]

19 hours ago, Wombat1 said:

I doubt it Ron. I think the cost of all forms of energy are going to rise. We are facing a global energy crunch now, it has long been warned about and has just begun. I reckon that demand is going to outstrip supply for the next 20 years. Actually has little to do with climate policies or how many reserves of fossil fuels we have. Has more to do with the ridiculous amount of volatility in commodity markets due to financial speculation. Oil and gas companies, as well as coal companies, have seen prices so volatile for the last 2 decades that they are not willing to invest even if there wasn't the added burden of climate policy uncertainty. At the moment, costs for oil and gas companies are very low, but the moment the oil price hits $80 they face a problem. If they rapidly ramp up production, labour costs etc suddenly shoot up again and it's back to square one. There is simply no way to make a decent profit out of new production any more. Only the lowest-cost producers like Qatar and Russia can do it. So capex will be restrained and companies will just milk existing assets for as much as they can get. Nobody has made any money out of energy stocks over the last 2 decades despite the near tripling of global energy demand. Except the traders. Dividends and capital growth have been non-existent. And the companies still have huge debts that won't be cleared for a decade. I am afraid that China with their covid weapon have almost decimated the Western oil & gas industry. Now they will be at the mercy of OPEC. Talk about Karma  

I am not an investment guru but believe that the Woke corporations will not be the main factor in deciding what energy sources are used around the world. I think that, over time, the most cost efficient and abundant fuels and energy sources will win and keep market share. I really don't think that corporations should aim for exorbitant profits, but for good steady profits over the long term. They should not be given sizeable incentives to take over industries because governments and NGO's think that they should decide how the world works. That is statism, not free enterprise. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

15 hours ago, Wombat1 said:

Yeah, fast freezes and ice ages are associated with pole shifts. The pole shifts (like the one we seem to be entering now), are associated with prior warming due to CO2 that melts the ice caps, increasing the tidal bulge around the equator which squeezes the mantle such that the magma flows in the opposite direction and flips the magnetic field. 

That is an interesting theory, but I would appreciate some sort of reference. I have studied global warming AKA Climate Change, and Just Plain weather for ten years. Here is my topic and my references 1,367 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vHU2hHXebxpvExT7srNNnX-VM7Qn9Ak_ZmdKCIcUti8/edit

You do understand that mankind was not around when that happened? Also that here is no proof, that I am aware of, to prove that CO2 had anything to do with it. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by ronwagn
add

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

9 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

If we listen to the climate alarmists, we will indeed revert to Third World status. That would make the Greenies happy, but not most people.

The best new climate science shows that climate change is driven primarily by solar variables, over which you and I can huff and puff all day without making any impact on the sun's activity. Like old King Canute ordering the tides to stop moving.

Or GOP House Rep. Louis Gohmert asking the Forest Service if they can change the orbit of the Moon to fend off climate change.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/louie-gohmert-moon-orbit-nasa-climate-1180092/

Pretty much sums up your sides' understanding of everything.

 

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

I am not an investment guru but believe that the Woke corporations will not be the main factor in deciding what energy sources are used around the world. I think that, over time, the most cost efficient and abundant fuels and energy sources will win and keep market share. I really don't think that corporations should aim for exorbitant profits, but for good steady profits over the long term. They should not be given sizeable incentives to take over industries because governments and NGO's think that they should decide how the world works. That is statism, not free enterprise. 

Markets and "Free Enterprise" is NOT free.

It is regulated.

Wall Street and the API cares only about their wallet. 

Otherwise, just ask them when you take Wall Street's bet, "OK, I'll take your offer, only if you tell me how you are going to F*CK me".

They think many moves ahead.

It is time for energy users to think many moves ahead.

Edited September 12, 2021 by turbguy