GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

20 hours ago, turbguy said:

If you cannot recognize a public landslide, too bad.

Newsom performed "biggly"!

Reality seems to be winning.

Speaking of "Biggly" preformance...

GM tells some Bolt owners to park 50 feet away from other cars

The new advice is likely to rankle owners who are already limiting their use of the Bolt to avoid overheating the battery and risking a fire.

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/gm-tells-some-bolt-owners-park-50-feet-away-other-cars

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

In China, the world's largest new car market, plug-in vehicles achieved 17.8% market share in August! Astounding exponential growth that has the country on track to reach 50% PEV sales by the end of next year. 

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20210914PR200.html

For the economically challenged I will remind that for every 20% of new car sales rate about 1% of the fleet is replaced per year.

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Europe will be returning to increased coal production and coal use, thanks to the misguided energy policies of panicked politicians.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Could-Turn-To-More-Coal-If-Gas-Crunch-Persists.html

"Gas prices in Europe have shot up in recent weeks, with the European benchmark, the Dutch Title Transfer Facility (TTF) hub, surging by 250 percent since the beginning of the year, as per Reuters estimates. Gas prices in major economies, including Germany and France, have also spiked, leading to record electricity prices. The whole of Europe, including the UK, is grappling with soaring natural gas and electricity prices ahead of the winter heating season due to tight gas supplies, very low gas inventories across the continent, and low wind power generation amid still weather. In the UK, now a non-EU country, surging natural gas prices and warm and still weather forced the country to fire up last week an old coal plant that was on standby in order to meet its electricity demand. The rally in natural gas prices is also driving global demand for coal. Goldman Sachs this week nearly doubled its price projection for coal prices in Asia, expecting the benchmark Newcastle thermal coal to average $190 a ton in the fourth quarter, up from a previous forecast of $100 per ton, due to sky-high gas prices ahead of the winter heating season."

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

In China, the world's largest new car market, plug-in vehicles achieved 17.8% market share in August! Astounding exponential growth that has the country on track to reach 50% PEV sales by the end of next year. 

https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20210914PR200.html

For the economically challenged I will remind that for every 20% of new car sales rate about 1% of the fleet is replaced per year.

 

That is still a tiny, tiny percentage of overall vehicle stock, and it ignores the huge second-hand market for ICE vehicles...not impressive.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Demand for coal in China and India and other Asian countries has sent coal prices soaring into the stratosphere....which can only mean ONE thing....more coal will be produced and blow away the nonsensical targets set by the propagandists for climate alarmism.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/goldman-almost-doubles-asia-coal-price-forecast-on-energy-crunch

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

What happens if the wind stops blowing? This is what happens, stoke up those old coal burning plants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58469238

"The UK fired up an old coal power plant on Monday to meet its electricity needs. Warm, still, autumn weather has meant wind farms have not generated as much power as normal, while soaring prices have made it too costly to rely on gas. As a result, National Grid ESO - which is responsible for balancing the UK's electricity supply - confirmed coal was providing 3% of national power. It said it asked EDF to fire up West Burton A, which had been on standby. On Tuesday, the use of coal returned to 2.2% of the UK's electricity generation."

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Here is what happens when misguided politicians shut down or overtax basic energy supplies....you get an economic strangulation crisis. Being transfixed with panic over an imaginary future crisis has caused the politicos to create a real current crisis.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/13/europes-gas-shortage-could-make-the-whole-world-pay-more-to-get-warm-this-winter.html

"“People are starting to throw the ‘crisis’ word around” when it comes to Europe, said John Kilduff, partner with Again Capital. He said natural gas in storage in Europe is 16% below the five-year average, and the level in storage is a record low for September. “Europe is squarely behind the eight ball going into the winter season. It’s going to put the focus on this commodity that’s been overlooked for the last several years,” said Kilduff. The tipping point could come in several months when it becomes clear what type of winter is ahead for Europe, and also the U.S. Some analysts say in an extreme scenario, U.S. prices could double if there is an extended cold spell, particularly in Europe where shortages could get severe. “If the winter is mildly cold, it’s going to be problematic for sure,” said Francisco Blanch, head of commodities and derivatives strategy at Bank of America."

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Europe will be returning to increased coal production and coal use, thanks to the misguided energy policies of panicked politicians.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Could-Turn-To-More-Coal-If-Gas-Crunch-Persists.html

"Gas prices in Europe have shot up in recent weeks, with the European benchmark, the Dutch Title Transfer Facility (TTF) hub, surging by 250 percent since the beginning of the year, as per Reuters estimates. Gas prices in major economies, including Germany and France, have also spiked, leading to record electricity prices. The whole of Europe, including the UK, is grappling with soaring natural gas and electricity prices ahead of the winter heating season due to tight gas supplies, very low gas inventories across the continent, and low wind power generation amid still weather. In the UK, now a non-EU country, surging natural gas prices and warm and still weather forced the country to fire up last week an old coal plant that was on standby in order to meet its electricity demand. The rally in natural gas prices is also driving global demand for coal. Goldman Sachs this week nearly doubled its price projection for coal prices in Asia, expecting the benchmark Newcastle thermal coal to average $190 a ton in the fourth quarter, up from a previous forecast of $100 per ton, due to sky-high gas prices ahead of the winter heating season."

The UK is going for hydrogen as a key energy source longer term

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/18/britain-launches-plan-to-ramp-up-low-carbon-hydrogen-capacity.html

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

On Tuesday, the use of coal returned to 2.2% of the UK's electricity generation."

2.2% is a tiny percentage of the UK's usage and is a temporary fix, which I've stated before.

As I write this 3 days later it has already dropped to 1.2% (or 0.39GW)

https://grid.iamkate.com/

I would hardly be raving about the resurgence of coal electricity production based on these figures!

Coal is DEAD in the UK by September 2024 (apart from steel production), that is a fact you can bank on.

https://www.edie.net/news/6/UK-s-last-coal-fired-power-plant-to-close-in-September-2024/

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:47 AM, Ecocharger said:

Wombat, take a look at some of the articles referenced earlier in this thread, showing that solar cycles are the primary driver of global warming/cooling, and CO2 levels have only a minor impact. Let me hear your comments on those research papers. It should be a snap for you, with all your fabulous scientific credentials. And also explain how CO2 is more important as a greenhouse gas than CFCs and other related gases, which are often about 50,000 times more potent greenhouse gases per volume than CO2. Give us some genuine enlightenment.

Well, for a start, emissions of CO2 are about 100 trillion times higher than CFC's, and no, I am not going to waste my time reading the rubbish you call "references". You are the one that needs to upgrade the quality of your research, not me.

[Wombat1 + 33]

On 9/14/2021 at 1:15 PM, ronwagn said:

https://www.macrotrends.net/2478/natural-gas-prices-historical-chart See what a fantastic value natural gas is today. This chart goes back to 1997 and figure in inflation!

 

Interesting graph Ron. I have argued for a while that the same case can be made for oil, that it is actually dirt cheap at the moment. In 1996 the price of petrol in Australia hit 80 cents per litre and we thought that was expensive. Now it is $1.60/litre (about $6/gallon), so the price has only doubled whilst the price of just about everything else has at least quadrupled or even gone up by a factor of 10 or more. 

[Wombat1 + 33]

11 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Europe will be returning to increased coal production and coal use, thanks to the misguided energy policies of panicked politicians.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Europe-Could-Turn-To-More-Coal-If-Gas-Crunch-Persists.html

"Gas prices in Europe have shot up in recent weeks, with the European benchmark, the Dutch Title Transfer Facility (TTF) hub, surging by 250 percent since the beginning of the year, as per Reuters estimates. Gas prices in major economies, including Germany and France, have also spiked, leading to record electricity prices. The whole of Europe, including the UK, is grappling with soaring natural gas and electricity prices ahead of the winter heating season due to tight gas supplies, very low gas inventories across the continent, and low wind power generation amid still weather. In the UK, now a non-EU country, surging natural gas prices and warm and still weather forced the country to fire up last week an old coal plant that was on standby in order to meet its electricity demand. The rally in natural gas prices is also driving global demand for coal. Goldman Sachs this week nearly doubled its price projection for coal prices in Asia, expecting the benchmark Newcastle thermal coal to average $190 a ton in the fourth quarter, up from a previous forecast of $100 per ton, due to sky-high gas prices ahead of the winter heating season."

All the more reason to start producing H2 with excess renewables during Autumn and Spring? A global H2 industry would eliminate the seasonal energy crunch that the world has always experienced.

 

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, Wombat1 said:

All the more reason to start producing H2 with excess renewables during Autumn and Spring? A global H2 industry would eliminate the seasonal energy crunch that the world has always experienced.

 

You gotta be careful with Hydrogen.

Hydrogen embrittlement can rear it's ugly metallurgical head if storage, pipelines and handling systems are not carefully considered.

Flame speed issues arise in CT's that require considerable testing and modifications to overcome.  There are CT's that proport to be able to handle pure hydrogen, but I have yet to hear of one in actual service anywhere.  A mix of hydrogen and methane is more appropriate with even advanced designs.

Whatever, DON'T PUT IT IN A BOILER!   That would be a huge waste.

Hydrogen as a transportation fuel might make better sense, even though filling station operators might have to renew o-rings daily.

Edited September 17, 2021 by turbguy

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

46 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

That is still a tiny, tiny percentage of overall vehicle stock, and it ignores the huge second-hand market for ICE vehicles...not impressive.

Of course you aren't impressed. That would require understanding economics. You are witnessing the first stages of one of the greatest disruptions in economic history! If you pay attention you might learn something. 

Today's new car market is tomorrow's second-hand market.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

What happens if the wind stops blowing? This is what happens, stoke up those old coal burning plants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58469238

"The UK fired up an old coal power plant on Monday to meet its electricity needs. Warm, still, autumn weather has meant wind farms have not generated as much power as normal, while soaring prices have made it too costly to rely on gas. As a result, National Grid ESO - which is responsible for balancing the UK's electricity supply - confirmed coal was providing 3% of national power. It said it asked EDF to fire up West Burton A, which had been on standby. On Tuesday, the use of coal returned to 2.2% of the UK's electricity generation."

 

I am wondering how much it would cost to keep all of our coal and natural gas plants operational. Natural gas plants have already been closed and reopened in California and Europe. The same  might apply to some nuclear plants due to close in Europe. Does anyone have any idea? My rationale is that there are many possible threats to our energy plants and electrical lines and substations etc. I think we should keep all valuable energy plants and lines operational even if only minimally used. To me, that might be a wise investment in our infrastructure. 

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

4 hours ago, Wombat1 said:

Well, for a start, emissions of CO2 are about 100 trillion times higher than CFC's, and no, I am not going to waste my time reading the rubbish you call "references". You are the one that needs to upgrade the quality of your research, not me.

Yeah. Articles from Nature and the like are "rubbish". 🙄

Listen, if you had anywhere near as much clout as you dream you do, you'd responsible for the sorry state of affairs everywhere on the planet right now and for the last couple decades. 

You're not as smart or as influential as you portend to be. Just stop pretending to be anything more than a blowhard Aussie with a penchant for authoritarian boot-licking. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, Wombat1 said:

Interesting graph Ron. I have argued for a while that the same case can be made for oil, that it is actually dirt cheap at the moment. In 1996 the price of petrol in Australia hit 80 cents per litre and we thought that was expensive. Now it is $1.60/litre (about $6/gallon), so the price has only doubled whilst the price of just about everything else has at least quadrupled or even gone up by a factor of 10 or more. 

I agree. You really have to look at inflation in the retail price and then analyze how much of the increase is in taxes and how they break down. The highest taxes are generally in the Blue states but most tend to be increased eventually. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.eenews.net/articles/major-calif-battery-outage-highlights-energy-storage-risks/

It seems to me that it is too early to consider battery storage as reliable. Small scale tests make sense if the cost benefit ratio is there. 

[Wombat1 + 33]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

You gotta be careful with Hydrogen.

Hydrogen embrittlement can rear it's ugly metallurgical head if storage, pipelines and handling systems are not carefully considered.

Flame speed issues arise in CT's that require considerable testing and modifications to overcome.  There are CT's that proport to be able to handle pure hydrogen, but I have yet to hear of one in actual service anywhere.  A mix of hydrogen and methane is more appropriate with even advanced designs.

Whatever, DON'T PUT IT IN A BOILER!   That would be a huge waste.

Hydrogen as a transportation fuel might make better sense, even though filling station operators might have to renew o-rings daily.

Sure, produce H2 for transport as well, but even a 50:50 mix of H2 and LNG in CT's would go a long way to reducing the severity of seasonal demand for the LNG. Timing of maintenance of LNG plants helps a tiny bit, and they are capable of ramping production up and down to some extent, but only a large H2 industry can make the whole energy complex work relatively efficiently if the world is going to turn green. Of course, LNG will also play a key role, but cannot do everything on it's own as shown by the extreme price volatility of the last decade. There also needs to be a heck of a lot more nuclear and pumped hydro. 

[Wombat1 + 33]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

I am wondering how much it would cost to keep all of our coal and natural gas plants operational. Natural gas plants have already been closed and reopened in California and Europe. The same  might apply to some nuclear plants due to close in Europe. Does anyone have any idea? My rationale is that there are many possible threats to our energy plants and electrical lines and substations etc. I think we should keep all valuable energy plants and lines operational even if only minimally used. To me, that might be a wise investment in our infrastructure. 

Nice in theory, but a little impractical Ron. Did you know that Europe has dozens of LNG import terminals that barely get used whilst Asia has a massive shortage of them despite being the largest market for LNG? Not even "Mr Market" gets things right all of the time, let alone the govt  Truth is, Europe has lagged Australia and California in regards to big batteries, but this is because the whole energy market is transforming at such a rapid pace that it has taken everyone by surprise. It is virtually impossible to plan the whole thing out because there are so many moving parts but govt's around the world are waking up to the fact that they need to invest in both short and long-term electrical storage systems because they simply cannot store enough LNG. That is why the Australian govt is investing heavily in pumped hydro (Snowy 2.0), whilst our major utility companies are investing heavily in batteries. We are also investing heavily in H2 and building a few more gas peaker plants.

 

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

44 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Nice in theory, but a little impractical Ron. Did you know that Europe has dozens of LNG import terminals that barely get used whilst Asia has a massive shortage of them despite being the largest market for LNG? Not even "Mr Market" gets things right all of the time, let alone the govt  Truth is, Europe has lagged Australia and California in regards to big batteries, but this is because the whole energy market is transforming at such a rapid pace that it has taken everyone by surprise. It is virtually impossible to plan the whole thing out because there are so many moving parts but govt's around the world are waking up to the fact that they need to invest in both short and long-term electrical storage systems because they simply cannot store enough LNG. That is why the Australian govt is investing heavily in pumped hydro (Snowy 2.0), whilst our major utility companies are investing heavily in batteries. We are also investing heavily in H2 and building a few more gas peaker plants.

 

 

Natural gas can be stored as natural gas easily or from as CNG or LNG. It can be transported by ship, truck, rail, pipe. Storage is easy and probably cheaper than battery storage (my guess). LNG can be turned back into gaseous uncompressed form or into CNG in very efficent tanks. Northern countries may do well with LNG and other forms may use CNG storage or cavern storage for uncompressed. There is no problem storing natural gas.

I grew up in Los Angeles. The main feature from the top of my garage was the natural gas storage tank downtown. to the right of that the main feature was the Los Angeles city hall. Obviously Los Angeles depends on a lot of natural gas and still does, but it is now stored elsewhere.

http://americanfilmnoir.com/_wp_generated/wpf5b0cae8_05_06.jpg

Edited September 17, 2021 by ronwagn
reference

[Wombat1 + 33]

4 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Natural gas can be stored as natural gas easily or from as CNG or LNG. It can be transported by ship, truck, rail, pipe. Storage is easy and probably cheaper than battery storage (my guess). LNG can be turned back into gaseous uncompressed form or into CNG in very efficent tanks. Northern countries may do well with LNG and other forms may use CNG storage or cavern storage for uncompressed. There is no problem storing natural gas.

I grew up in Los Angeles. The main feature from the top of my garage was the natural gas storage tank downtown. to the right of that the main feature was the Los Angeles city hall. Obviously Los Angeles depends on a lot of natural gas and still does, but it is now stored elsewhere.

Sure, but if you owned a storage facility, it would be in your interest to make sure it was half empty in the leadup to Winter so there would be a shortage and the price quadrupled? That is the market failure that seems to have occurred in Europe and the UK. The Asians did the opposite, poured billions into LNG plants in Australia then deliberately failed to provide the import terminals in order to create an oversupply of LNG and reduce the price. There is no such thing as a free market in energy Ron. Until Europe gets serious about regulating their storage facilities, Mr Market will find ways to gouge his clients

 

[Wombat1 + 33]

9 minutes ago, Wombat1 said:

Sure, but if you owned a storage facility, it would be in your interest to make sure it was half empty in the leadup to Winter so there would be a shortage and the price quadrupled? That is the market failure that seems to have occurred in Europe and the UK. The Asians did the opposite, poured billions into LNG plants in Australia then deliberately failed to provide the import terminals in order to create an oversupply of LNG and reduce the price. There is no such thing as a free market in energy Ron. Until Europe gets serious about regulating their storage facilities, Mr Market will find ways to gouge his clients

 

Some evidence for you Ron...

"Half empty" UK gas pipeline prompts calls for inquiry - The Australian Pipeliner

 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

This is where the rubber hits the road...the climate alarmist approach to eliminate sources of energy is bringing about a major economic crisis in Europe, and it will only get worse going forward. Even now, events have exploded to reveal the grand strategic failure of the Green Dream.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/Get-Ready-For-The-Energy-Price-Shock.html

"Year-to-date, the key benchmark price in Europe—the Title Transfer Facility (TTF, a Dutch virtual hub)—has shown an increase of 245% and a YOY increase of an astounding 520%, based on the latest data shared by Standard Chartered.  LNG exports aren’t ready to step in to do anything about it.  We have now reached a point where Americans might have to adjust their geopolitical thinking about Russia’s Gazprom-led Nordstream 2 pipeline. "

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

There is a looming economic disaster hanging over Europe this coming winter, courtesy of the misguided policies of Green Dream politicians and United Nations propagandists. This crisis will hit poor people the most, the ones who rely on oil and gasoline to drive their cars, and natural gas to heat their homes. The political elite is really hitting the little guy in this revolutionary irresponsible exercise.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/bleak-house-why-europe-faces-steep-winter-energy-bills-2021-09-15/

"But prices have sky-rocketed due to low gas storage stocks, high European Union carbon prices, low liquefied natural gas tanker deliveries due to higher demand from Asia, less gas supplies from Russia than usual, low renewable output and gas and nuclear maintenance outages. Benchmark European gas prices at the Dutch TTF hub have risen by more than 250% since January, while benchmark German and French power contracts have both doubled."

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ecocharger