GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 9/17/2021 at 11:08 PM, turbguy said:

It's a two mile hike across the prairie daily to my mailbox, plus I have a Labrador retriever, while achieving 73 trips around old Sol.

A large dog is the BEST "exercise device" ever!

A horse is about the same, but if you ride a horse, you WILL get hurt.

Then, I have this KFC addiction...

Yep, I met a man that fell off a horse and he was in the hospital with a broken hip. I never was interested in being a horseman. I love dogs and have had many. Just lost my last dog buddy a few months ago. He lived seventeen years. Dogs are restricted from many National Parks and Monuments, botanical gardens, zoos, restarurants, etc. etc. We were given a beautiful Maine Coon cat by my daughter. We are still raising a rabbit that she insisted on having. My cat loves to sit on my lap. Cats are great at seeking and getting love. Dogs are great at giving love. As long as I can travel, I don't want the responsibility of another dog. Cats are easy to leave behind. 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

High energy prices, forced up by misguided anti-energy policies of governments, are now choking economic growth. This can only mean a drastically reduced standard of living for the poorer segments of world populations, massive reductions in personal transportation vehicles, housing, appliances, and immiseration for the generality of humanity. A self-destructive paradigm courtesy of mistaken scientific modelling.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Two-Industries-Getting-Slammed-By-Sky-High-Oil-And-Natural-Gas-Prices.html

Edited September 20, 2021 by Ecocharger

[turbguy + 1,544]

4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

High energy prices, forced up by misguided anti-energy policies of governments, are now choking economic growth. This can only mean a drastically reduced standard of living for the poorer segments of world populations, massive reductions in personal transportation vehicles, housing, appliances, and immiseration for the generality of humanity. A self-destructive paradigm courtesy of mistaken scientific modelling.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Two-Industries-Getting-Slammed-By-Sky-High-Oil-And-Natural-Gas-Prices.html

If a free market sets the price of energy, why are cartels so much in control?

How much does it cost SA to lift a barrel of oil and put it on a boat?  $8-$10??

And then find buyers for it at what, $50-$80?

At least electric power cannot be shipped very far.  We could otherwise sell a whole lot to China from time to time...

Edited September 20, 2021 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

9 minutes ago, turbguy said:

If a free market sets the price of energy, why are cartels so much in control?

How much does it cost SA to lift a barrel of oil and put it on a boat?  $8-$10??

And then find buyers for it at what, $60-$80?

At least electric power cannot be shipped very far.  We could otherwise sell a whole lot to China from time to time...

Where do you see a free market in energy today? The government is shutting down the energy transportation system, that is a form of government intervention.

[turbguy + 1,544]

23 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Where do you see a free market in energy today? The government is shutting down the energy transportation system, that is a form of government intervention.

It is not a free market.  It never was.

The government is indeed "hurting" the older forms of energy that have proven to be destructive to the very planet you and I reside on.

Particularly those forms that have traditionally driven heat engines.

That said, I doubt you believe that.

The government promotes moving towards less destructive forms. 

Even if it costs you and I more at present.

Some of those forms are CHEAPER than the old forms.

The earth does not give a hoot about "next quarter results" or "shareholder returns".

The earth does "care" about BTU's, wastes, and emissions.

It's gonna take a while.  FF's ain't going anywhere for a while.

Enjoy the ride.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by turbguy

[Boat + 1,324]

1 hour ago, turbguy said:

It is not a free market.  It never was.

The government is indeed "hurting" the older forms of energy that have proven to be destructive to the very planet you and I reside on.

Particularly those forms that have traditionally driven heat engines.

That said, I doubt you believe that.

The government promotes moving towards less destructive forms. 

Even if it costs you and I more at present.

Some of those forms are CHEAPER than the old forms.

The earth does not give a hoot about "next quarter results" or "shareholder returns".

The earth does "care" about BTU's, wastes, and emissions.

It's gonna take a while.  FF's ain't going anywhere for a while.

Enjoy the ride.

 

It could be a lot worse for FF companies if the cost of healthcare from FF pollution was passed onto producers. FF companies can still flare away in the US. The US has spent many lives and much treasure supporting FF. The US government even made fracking possible. Seems to me all the crying for the worlds and the US biggest commodity is a little rich. After a COVID glitch the oil rigs and completion crew numbers keep rising. A couple of hurricanes and a cyber attack slowed FF a bit but production gains can’t be slowed for long.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 9/17/2021 at 10:37 PM, Ecocharger said:

Here is what to expect going forward with the Green disaster cooked up by irresponsible politicians and UN propagandists. Fundamental industrial production will be challenged to the breaking point by artificially high energy prices, leading to industrial shutdowns and a rapid destruction of the average standard of living for you and I. This is no joke.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/UK-Gas-Price-Surge-Forces-Key-Industrial-Sites-To-Close.html

"Two industrial sites that produce a combined 40 percent of the UK’s fertiliser have been forced to halt operations due to recent record gas prices.

The Times reported that CF Industries had shuttered its plants at Billingham in Teesside and Ince in Cheshire as a direct result of the price spikes.

The closures came as gas prices hit record levels yesterday after a fire at a National Grid facility in Kent forced one of the UK’s crucial power interconnectors to close.

Prices closed in on £2 a therm yesterday, six times higher than a year ago.

As a result of the blaze, the 2 gigawatt cable, which connects the UK’s energy grid to France, will be offline for six months.

This further raises the prospect of an expensive winter for consumers in a market already tight due to a shortage of global gas supply."

Please see current UK National grid energy mix.

The IFA interconnector is the one you speak about (just click on the "i" next to each one to find out where they are connected) however we have many others including a secondary one to France IFA-2.

I agree that gas prices are crazily high at present but that is the case in most countries.

https://grid.iamkate.com/

Edited September 20, 2021 by Rob Plant

[Eric Gagen + 713]

14 hours ago, turbguy said:

If a free market sets the price of energy, why are cartels so much in control?

How much does it cost SA to lift a barrel of oil and put it on a boat?  $8-$10??

And then find buyers for it at what, $50-$80?

At least electric power cannot be shipped very far.  We could otherwise sell a whole lot to China from time to time...

You are mixing up the cost of the lowest supplier with the costs of the highest suppliers.  The lowest cost suppliers get the most profit, but for all their production capacity,  the Saudi's don't individually meet the entirety of world oil supply.  The rest of it comes from somewhere else with a higher cost of production.  Realistically when the price of oil is (for example) $70 the least efficient/most expensive supplier of oil has a cost of production of  about $70 per bbl (could be a little more, could be a little less)

What the KSA and the rest of OPEC do to influence prices is threaten LOW prices - not unilateral control of the top line oprice.  They ensure that 2 things will always be factors in the market: 

• The possibility that they will lower the price of oil:  This discourages at least some potential oil producers from doing it.  If you have a possible oil production project in (for example) deepwater angola and you figure out that you have to have $60/bbl oil to make the project work,  you probably won't do it unless oil is well over $60 due to the potential risk that OPEC might decide to drop prices at a bad time and make your project a money looser overnight.
• the other thing they do is offer preferred discount pricing for long term contracts.  This also serves to discourage alternative suppliers because buyers will loose their discount if they sign a deal with someone else.  The Saudi's do this with oil, and Gazprom is famously successful at doing this with natural gas.  

Every once in a while they raise prices, and once upon a time in the 1970's and 80's they had sufficient market power to do that, but that hasn't been the case except for very short time.  Since then, the maximum/upper price of oil has been far more determined by markets than by what OPEC would choose.  

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

22 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Please see current UK National grid energy mix.

The IFA interconnector is the one you speak about (just click on the "i" next to each one to find out where they are connected) however we have many others including a secondary one to France IFA-2.

I agree that gas prices are crazily high at present but that is the case in most countries.

https://grid.iamkate.com/

That dizzying high price of energy is largely due to anti-energy policies by panicked governments.

This is all caused by defective climate models being used as political tools to negatively impact energy sources.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

Just as I predicted earlier, oil production will not decline going forward, even though it may occupy a smaller percentage of the overall energy mix.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Oil-Demand-Set-To-Grow-Even-After-2050-Energy-Expert-Says.html

"Even after 2050, global oil demand is set to continue to rise because renewables cannot entirely replace fossil fuels, energy markets expert Anas Alhajji said during a recent energy conference hosted by Nigeria. “The impact of climate change policies on oil demand are highly exaggerated – The impact is mostly on demand growth, not on demand itself,” Alhajji said during a keynote speech at the event focused on the impact of the energy transition on oil-dependent economies, as carried by Nigerian outlet Energy Frontier."

Edited September 20, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

This carbon science is getting tired, tired of playing second fiddle to covid. So it's time to reshuffle the deck, or maybe shake the tree's a bit.

Decaying wood releases around 10.9 gigatons of carbon worldwide every year, according to a new study by an international team of scientists.

This is roughly equivalent to 115 percent of fossil fuel emissions.

Co-author of the study Professor David Lindenmayer from The Australian National University (ANU) says it’s the first time researchers have been able to quantify the contribution of deadwood to the global carbon cycle.

 

https://scitechdaily.com/deadwood-releasing-10-9-gigatons-of-carbon-every-year-more-than-all-fossil-fuel-emissions-combined/

Deadwood Releasing 10.9 Gigatons of Carbon Every Year – More Than All Fossil Fuel Emissions Combined

Edited September 21, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

The self-created energy crisis in Europe is being duplicated in America, as panic-driven politicos are attacking needed energy sources...could anything be more economically self-destructive? Short of a self-ignited nuclear bomb, I can't think of anything.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Dangerous-Rally-In-Natural-Gas-Prices.html

"One factor is the "greening" of the energy supply around the world, particularly in Europe. Much of the current global environmental impetus culminating in the thinking of Co2 as a harmful gas has its origins on the Continent and has easily spilled over the Channel to the U.K. Over the last decade, European countries have shifted to wind and solar for electricity generation, in pursuit of Paris goals and NetZero carbon in 2050. They have paid a price for this greenness as you can see in the chart below. By comparison, in much of the U.S. utility rates average around $0.13 per KWH. 

 

 

We face a very antagonistic administration that is looking for ways to advantage renewables by punishing oil and gas. One feature is contained in the "Methane Reduction Act" which will levy what amounts to a carbon tax of $1,800 per ton on high carbon content fuels like natural gas which is mostly methane. Not satisfied with that, progressives are trying to disincentive the use of natural gas as a bridge fuel in their "Clean Electricity Program." This punishes natural gas still further while providing payments for "clean sources." Neither of these policies is certain to become law as states that would be harmed economically are fighting them. But the fact that they are being seriously discussed represents a change in the conversation.

Something that has to be rattling around in Progressive minds is a Wind Fall Profits Tax (WPT) on producers of oil and gas. This would be a resurgence of a Carter-era tax policy that sought to redistribute wealth through an excise tax on "unearned gains due to market conditions." Sort of like the situation that now exists, where tight supplies of products against strong demand are driving up prices resulting in big increases in cash flows to oil and gas companies. The WPT was a horrible policy that failed to meet its objectives and created all sorts of adverse knock-on effects. It was repealed in 1988 to everyone’s great relief at the time. Wait for it to come around again, enough time has gone by that memories may have faded. That said, there are enough rational members of Congress who remember the lessons of the past, and whose constituencies would be harmed, that I don't believe this notion will grow legs and walk."

Edited September 21, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

This carbon science is getting tired tired of playing second fiddle to covid. So it's time to reshuffle the deck, or maybe shake the tree's a bit.

Decaying wood releases around 10.9 gigatons of carbon worldwide every year, according to a new study by an international team of scientists.

This is roughly equivalent to 115 percent of fossil fuel emissions.

Co-author of the study Professor David Lindenmayer from The Australian National University (ANU) says it’s the first time researchers have been able to quantify the contribution of deadwood to the global carbon cycle.

 

https://scitechdaily.com/deadwood-releasing-10-9-gigatons-of-carbon-every-year-more-than-all-fossil-fuel-emissions-combined/

Deadwood Releasing 10.9 Gigatons of Carbon Every Year – More Than All Fossil Fuel Emissions Combined

Interesting, this might explain why atmospheric CO2 levels were so high during prehistoric eras.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:43 PM, turbguy said:

It is not a free market.  It never was.

The government is indeed "hurting" the older forms of energy that have proven to be destructive to the very planet you and I reside on.

Particularly those forms that have traditionally driven heat engines.

That said, I doubt you believe that.

The government promotes moving towards less destructive forms. 

Even if it costs you and I more at present.

Some of those forms are CHEAPER than the old forms.

The earth does not give a hoot about "next quarter results" or "shareholder returns".

The earth does "care" about BTU's, wastes, and emissions.

It's gonna take a while.  FF's ain't going anywhere for a while.

Enjoy the ride.

 

Well, you should read up on the new science...those older forms of energy are not hurting the planet, that is just the Big Lie we are getting fed by politically oriented pseudo-science. The reality is that we need CO2 in the atmosphere to create the conditions needed for Oxygen production from plant life.

There is no evidence that CO2 levels are responsible for global warming, the climate models which purport to show that are fundamentally defective. It now appears that solar cycles are the principal driver of global temperature change, so there is nothing which you and I can do about that.

Banning energy transportation systems clearly creates economic crisis, both here and in Europe.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Climate change: President Xi Jinping vows to end Chinese funding of coal plants abroad at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA)

https://news.sky.com/story/president-xi-jinping-vows-to-end-chinese-funding-of-coal-plants-abroad-at-the-united-nations-general-assembly-unga-12414189

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Tesla broke ground on their new Megafactory in California for producing grid storage LFP Megapacks. Grid storage in the US will really go wild when this is completed.

[Boat + 1,324]

On 9/21/2021 at 12:33 AM, Eyes Wide Open said:

This carbon science is getting tired, tired of playing second fiddle to covid. So it's time to reshuffle the deck, or maybe shake the tree's a bit.

Decaying wood releases around 10.9 gigatons of carbon worldwide every year, according to a new study by an international team of scientists.

This is roughly equivalent to 115 percent of fossil fuel emissions.

Co-author of the study Professor David Lindenmayer from The Australian National University (ANU) says it’s the first time researchers have been able to quantify the contribution of deadwood to the global carbon cycle.

 

https://scitechdaily.com/deadwood-releasing-10-9-gigatons-of-carbon-every-year-more-than-all-fossil-fuel-emissions-combined/

Deadwood Releasing 10.9 Gigatons of Carbon Every Year – More Than All Fossil Fuel Emissions Combined

Scientist warned decades ago that FF represented the straw that broke the carbon back. This is not new news. Trump lost the election. This is not new news. Please keep up. The oceans are rising. He cost of climate change has dramatically raised costs of living on or near the coast. Not new news. As costs and damage from the climate continue to rise, here is the Republican surprise. This is not new news.

I bet you read the Bible and are continually amazed, astounded and humbled by the all powerful god. But Mother Nature has been slapping your butt around for decades and you can’t see it. Lol 

[turbguy + 1,544]

1 hour ago, Boat said:

Scientist warned decades ago that FF represented the straw that broke the carbon back. This is not new news. Trump lost the election. This is not new news. Please keep up. The oceans are rising. He cost of climate change has dramatically raised costs of living on or near the coast. Not new news. As costs and damage from the climate continue to rise, here is the Republican surprise. This is not new news.

I bet you read the Bible and are continually amazed, astounded and humbled by the all powerful god. But Mother Nature has been slapping your butt around for decades and you can’t see it. Lol 

Mother Nature is part of my all powerful God.

Sins have consequences, no?

Edited September 23, 2021 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

The self-induced energy crisis is now spreading to America. The madness is getting worse.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-European-Energy-Crisis-Is-About-To-Go-Global.html

"Traders are already getting jittery, and this will likely contribute to price uncertainty; regardless of how the fundamentals situation develops. Again, Europe is at the heart of the uncertainty - or rather the certainty that prices have higher to climb. But now, China has added to concern about gas supply and the potential for shortages.

For now, China's biggest problem seems to be coal rather than gas. A recent Bloomberg report said that China coal power plant operators are struggling to buy enough coal to keep their plants running, and some are being forced to shut down their boilers because of insufficient coal supply. This, however, might lead to stronger gas demand to ensure enough electricity and heating for the winter. This will further exacerbate the difference between global demand and supply."

Edited September 23, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

3 hours ago, Boat said:

Scientist warned decades ago that FF represented the straw that broke the carbon back. This is not new news. Trump lost the election. This is not new news. Please keep up. The oceans are rising. He cost of climate change has dramatically raised costs of living on or near the coast. Not new news. As costs and damage from the climate continue to rise, here is the Republican surprise. This is not new news.

I bet you read the Bible and are continually amazed, astounded and humbled by the all powerful god. But Mother Nature has been slapping your butt around for decades and you can’t see it. Lol 

The whole point is that Mother Nature is behind the climate change...you just have to read about it in the right publications, which we linked above in this thread.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Tesla broke ground on their new Megafactory in California for producing grid storage LFP Megapacks. Grid storage in the US will really go wild when this is completed.

The Green Dream has already gone wild...self-inflicted energy crisis. Nice work.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

16 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Climate change: President Xi Jinping vows to end Chinese funding of coal plants abroad at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA)

https://news.sky.com/story/president-xi-jinping-vows-to-end-chinese-funding-of-coal-plants-abroad-at-the-united-nations-general-assembly-unga-12414189

As with all these articles, you have to read the fine print,

"But, as ever, the more important issue is China’s own use of coal. It still relies on it a huge amount and remains the world’s biggest polluter. Xi has promised that emissions will peak by 2030 But even if that is achieved - and that’s a big if, with new coal power stations still being built - experts say it will be too late to prevent the worst effects of warming."

Uh oh, another panic attack is coming on for those poor Greenies.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

As with all these articles, you have to read the fine print,

"But, as ever, the more important issue is China’s own use of coal. It still relies on it a huge amount and remains the world’s biggest polluter. Xi has promised that emissions will peak by 2030 But even if that is achieved - and that’s a big if, with new coal power stations still being built - experts say it will be too late to prevent the worst effects of warming."

Uh oh, another panic attack is coming on for those poor Greenies.

China cannot get enough coal to operate these mainly because of their spat with Australia, so they have an energy crisis all of their own making.

[Boat + 1,324]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

As with all these articles, you have to read the fine print,

"But, as ever, the more important issue is China’s own use of coal. It still relies on it a huge amount and remains the world’s biggest polluter. Xi has promised that emissions will peak by 2030 But even if that is achieved - and that’s a big if, with new coal power stations still being built - experts say it will be too late to prevent the worst effects of warming."

Uh oh, another panic attack is coming on for those poor Greenies.

No panic, not new news. The effects of climate will wipe out big chunks of the population and the worlds economy. Try to keep up. Your still listening to politicians. Neither party has had the brains to begin to attempt the changes needed. And of course most of the world including China is 30 years behind. I pretty much expected the worlds response. But now that these storms have been kicking human butt for a couple decades maybe a third get it. In a couple more decades the survivors will want immediate action. Which of course starts the 30 year lag. 

[notsonice + 1,255]

Coal is dead

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by notsonice