Should the US government be on the hook for $15 billion?

[turbguy + 1,391]

Some don't seem to recall the history of the wild value swings of the gold-backed dollar that occurred with gold strikes, followed by gold droughts, followed by gold strikes, etc.

Perhaps they should have backed the dollar with crude?

Edited August 1, 2021 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

On 7/31/2021 at 4:35 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Where did you get your economics education?

I received my economics degree some years ago from a prominent economics department. Grad courses in international trade and finance  and econometrics.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

I received my economics degree some years ago from a prominent economics department. Grad courses in international trade and finance,  and econometrics.

If you can't name the school then your claim of prominence is irrelevant.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

On 7/31/2021 at 2:58 PM, nsdp said:

You really are dense. DOJ is functioning as as advocate. TCN had every expectation that the permit would be withdrawn. Dec. 19 2019, the US District Court for the District of Montana ruled that the grant was ultra vires (void on its face) and issued an injunction.. That was affirmed by a 3 judge panel and The US Supreme Court affirmed administratively by refusing a writ of cert granting hearing 7-2. I suggest that you learn the rules of practice and appellate  procedure issued by the US Supreme Court.

My jail house lawyer clients know you have to file a paupers oath or  supersedeas to keep the permit alive.  TCN never bothered.  Jail house lawyers are terrible lawyers but they know more than you do. One  of them even knew DEA had to do a NEPA study before spraying herbicide in Mexico. National Organizationfor the Reform of Marijuana Laws v. United States, 452 F. Supp.1226 (D.D.C. 1978).

As long as the Presidential permit is alive, negotiations can continue, or if the Keystone people are being treated differently from other American companies, that is also an issue. In the extreme an alternative ROW can be found, so your points are way off relevant again. Strawman arguments with no relevance to this case, which is about the Presidential permit rescission.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

7 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

If you can't name the school then your claim of prominence is irrelevant.

No, because the posts which you have posted are sufficient to persuade me that you have no degree in economics. Right?

Edited August 1, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

19 hours ago, nsdp said:

https://www.apmex.com/education/history/the-gold-standard-throughout-us-history

 

"there you go again" (I love quoting Reagan) demonstrating your failing memory. Under the Budget and Accounting Act of  1921, the President wrote the budget and submitted it to the House of Representatives. That was the procedure until FY 1975 when the current Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 passed.  Britian had no right to exchange currency for gold.  Roosevelt abolished gold backed currency in 1933 as a part of the 100 days". Gold was only valid for government  to government  trade balances through the International Bank of Settlements in Geneva.

"

n 1971, as the Gold stockpile at Fort Knox dwindled due to international transactions, President Richard Nixon(not LBJ as someone claims) announced that foreign countries could no longer redeem dollars for Gold. Moving forward, paper currency was ensured only by the full faith and credit of the United States and a fully fiat monetary system was adopted.

Demand for federal funds led to double-digit inflation into the 1980s. " The Gold Standard Throughout U.S. History. https://www.apmex.com/education/history/the-gold-standard-throughout-us-history It was the second oil shock  beginning in 1979 along with Fed tightening the money supply gross overspending on military  that caused the big inflation run,

Now, there you go again, you obviously did not obtain a degree in economics. Tightening the money supply causes the opposite of INflation, one of the basics of macroeconomics which every undergrad knows. Your analysis is haywire again.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

No, because the posts you have posted are sufficient to persuade me that you have no degree in economics. Right?

BA in Economics from the University of California with Highest Honors in the Major.

Juris Doctor with a specialty in Economic Analysis of the Law from Santa Clare Law. My thesis advisor was Dr. David D. Friedman, Milton's son and often referred to as the head of the utilitarian school of anarcho capitalism, although he refrains from the accolade 

"David D. Friedman says that he is not an absolutist rights theorist, but he is also "not a utilitarian". However, Friedman believes that "utilitarian arguments are usually the best way to defend libertarian views" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

I was also the Moore's Law Expert at the Semiconductor Industry Association, the basis for my exponential economics work.

 

So do tell, where did you go to school?

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[nsdp + 449]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

As long as the Presidential permit is alive, negotiations can continue, or if the Keystone people are being treated differently from other American companies, that is also an issue. In the extreme an alternative ROW can be found, so your points are way off relevant again. Strawman arguments with no relevance to this case, which is about the Presidential permit rescission.

The permit was dead on  Feb. 15th 2020 when TCN failed to post a supersedeas bond.   Attorney fees were assessed against TCN. That killed it right there because TCN failed to post an appeal bond.  That has been the rules since 1968. When  did you do your first appeal to any Federal Circuit Court of Appeals? Here was my first. City of Farmington, Plaintiff-appellee, v. Amoco Gas Company, Defendant-appellant, 777 F.2d 554 (10th Cir. 1985) Given the issuance of an Injunction, TCN had to post bond Rule 8(2)(E) for the case to continue to be stayed pending appeal for any matter. Case is still docketed because TCN has failed to comply with Rule 37 after the Supreme court refused to hear the case.  TCN could have accepted the District Court order and remand to the Corps of Engineers for preparation of a NEIS to support the Presidential Permit.  But NOOOO,TCN was not going to wait for remand to COE for a EIS. Biden could not have canceled the permit if it is in the initial preparation the and justification by COE for preparation of a full EIS.  Since 1970 there has been only one exception granted by Congress. The Trans Alaska oil Pipeline under  a special act . This is the third Environmental Impact Statement  that the Omaha office of COE has screwed up. The initial Dakota Access line was north of the Missouri River on white man's land, but was rerouted south of the river on Indian Reservation lands without an EIS.  Case has been remanded to    COE would have screwed up Enbridge's Line 5 expansion but Enbridge saved the COE from their own stupidity by agreeing with the NWF to go north around lakes at the headwaters of the Mississippi.

Edited August 2, 2021 by nsdp
syntax error

[nsdp + 449]

What a duffous.  When TCN did not accept remand to Corps of Engineers  after the 9 th circuit said the EIS was incomplete, there was no completed permit application to approve.  No completed permit application then no permit. It is like trying to get a driver's license without taking the driving test.

[nsdp + 449]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Now, there you go again, you obviously did not obtain a degree in economics. Tightening the money supply causes the opposite of INflation, one of the basics of macroeconomics which every undergrad knows. Your analysis is haywire again.Federal Reseve not the President.

It was the demand for overnight Fed Funds on deposit at the Fed(not printed Currency from the OCC where the President has control) that was the inflationary problem and it was controlled by the Federal Reserve Board. 12 of 16 members are presidents of the Regional Fed Banks. therefore not presidential appointees. Strike 3 you are out.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

2 hours ago, nsdp said:

What a duffous.  When TCN did not accept remand to Corps of Engineers  after the 9 th circuit said the EIS was incomplete, there was no completed permit application to approve.  No completed permit application then no permit. It is like trying to get a driver's license without taking the driving test.

Well since you used the word Duffous... let me tell you oh sir, dufous how EIS works... Or in this case, how it NEVER works.  You can have a completed, finalized, approved EIS, it means nothing as any twiddle de dumbo can come along and say it is NOT completed and file a suit in court and then get some tweedle de dum cowardly judge who either just doesn't want to take a stand or look like they are being "impartial" or who has a political axe to grind, or whose struggling buddy is in the law firm filing said complaint and needs a whole bunch of hours to charge, and viola!  EIS is not complete...  

EIS is an absurd joke anyways.  An EIS is nothing but NIMBY"s bitching and local bureaucracies needing to be bribed(my bad, placated by being consulted to made to feel important).  Everyone does care about procedures and infrastructure in place along with $ set aside for when everything goes tits up. EIS says absolutely nothing about this. 

Judges are not impartial, many try, they are still human

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

BA in Economics from the University of California with Highest Honors in the Major.

Juris Doctor with a specialty in Economic Analysis of the Law from Santa Clare Law. My thesis advisor was Dr. David D. Friedman, Milton's son and often referred to as the head of the utilitarian school of anarcho capitalism, although he refrains from the accolade 

"David D. Friedman says that he is not an absolutist rights theorist, but he is also "not a utilitarian". However, Friedman believes that "utilitarian arguments are usually the best way to defend libertarian views" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

I was also the Moore's Law Expert at the Semiconductor Industry Association, the basis for my exponential economics work.

 

So do tell, where did you go to school?

 

Why then do I detect a lack of economic analysis in your posts?

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

5 hours ago, nsdp said:

The permit was dead on  Feb. 15th 2020 when TCN failed to post a supersedeas bond.   Attorney fees were assessed against TCN. That killed it right there because TCN failed to post an appeal bond.  That has been the rules since 1968. When  did you do your first appeal to any Federal Circuit Court of Appeals? Here was my first. City of Farmington, Plaintiff-appellee, v. Amoco Gas Company, Defendant-appellant, 777 F.2d 554 (10th Cir. 1985) Given the issuance of an Injunction, TCN had to post bond Rule 8(2)(E) for the case to continue to be stayed pending appeal for any matter. Case is still docketed because TCN has failed to comply with Rule 37 after the Supreme court refused to hear the case.  TCN could have accepted the District Court order and remand to the Corps of Engineers for preparation of a NEIS to support the Presidential Permit.  But NOOOO,TCN was not going to wait for remand to COE for a EIS. Biden could not have canceled the permit if it is in the initial preparation the and justification by COE for preparation of a full EIS.  Since 1970 there has been only one exception granted by Congress. The Trans Alaska oil Pipeline under  a special act . This is the third Environmental Impact Statement  that the Omaha office of COE has screwed up. The initial Dakota Access line was north of the Missouri River on white man's land, but was rerouted south of the river on Indian Reservation lands without an EIS.  Case has been remanded to    COE would have screwed up Enbridge's Line 5 expansion but Enbridge saved the COE from their own stupidity by agreeing with the NWF to go north around lakes at the headwaters of the Mississippi.

The Presidential permit was not rescinded until 2021, and there were alternative ROW possibilities for Keystone. This whole claim is based on the Presidential rescission, not ROW. There are always alternative ROW possibilities, that is not a deal breaker. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Why then do I detect a lack of economic analysis in your posts?

I don't know. Perhaps you have a poor understanding of economics. Apparently you are ashamed of where you got your degree from. No one who is proud of their alma matter and their education hesitates to state what school they went to.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

5 hours ago, nsdp said:

It was the demand for overnight Fed Funds on deposit at the Fed(not printed Currency from the OCC where the President has control) that was the inflationary problem and it was controlled by the Federal Reserve Board. 12 of 16 members are presidents of the Regional Fed Banks. therefore not presidential appointees. Strike 3 you are out.

In other words, you have no degree in economics....I get that from your meanderings.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I don't know. Perhaps you have a poor understanding of economics. Apparently you are ashamed of where you got your degree from. No one who is proud of their alma matter and their education hesitates to state what school they went to.

I am happy to state it on a job application, but not for public consumption. No, I have not seen any economic analysis in your posting here.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

I am happy to state it on a job application, but not for public consumption. No, I have not seen any economic analysis in your posting here.

You are ashamed and that is all there is to it. It has been very clear that my economic analysis is way over your head. 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

9 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You are ashamed and that is all there is to it. It has been very clear that my economic analysis is way over your head. 

You have my answer, I studied with famous professors at a well-known economics department, and if I should ever apply for a job with your company, I will happily submit the appropriate names.

No, have not noticed any economic analysis from you. Keep trying.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Ecocharger

[nsdp + 449]

18 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Why then do I detect a lack of economic analysis in your posts?

Because there are five or six different schools of thought. Back when I went, there was MIT lead by Paul Samuelson, U of Chicago with Milton friedman, Berkeley, Jay supply the big name( Rice 's David Nissen was from there) Carnegie Mellon and Princeton focused on micro economics and mathematical modeling(John von Neuman's linear programming(,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Games_and_Economic_Behavior), regression analysis, optimization theory etc, knowing the difference between LCOE, LCOS and LACE and when to know which one to chose when)Rice teaches the Carnage Mellon-Princeton methodology.

" LCOE and LCOS do not capture all of the factors that contribute to actual investment decisions, making direct comparisons of LCOE and LCOS across technologies problematic and misleading as a method to assess the economic competitiveness of various generation alternatives. "https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf   If you do not know what LCOS and LACE are then you are not on the cutting edge.

My bet is your education is so deficient that you can't do the math for LACE.

Edited August 3, 2021 by nsdp
forgot Milton Friedman

[nsdp + 449]

18 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

The Presidential permit was not rescinded until 2021, and there were alternative ROW possibilities for Keystone. This whole claim is based on the Presidential rescission, not ROW. There are always alternative ROW possibilities, that is not a deal breaker. 

A piece of paper was signed by president Trump.  Due to deficiencies in its preparation the US District Court  ruled it was void and remanded to the COE for completion. This was affirmed by the 9th Circuit and  Cert denied by the Supreme Court.  A Permit cannot be validated by the president when it has previously judged to be void and by a district court and is pending appeal  to a circuit court of appeals.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

2 hours ago, nsdp said:

Because there are five or six different schools of thought. Back when I went, there was MIT lead by Paul Samuelson, U of Chicago with Milton friedman, Berkeley, Jay supply the big name( Rice 's David Nissen was from there) Carnegie Mellon and Princeton focused on micro economics and mathematical modeling(John von Neuman's linear programming(,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Games_and_Economic_Behavior), regression analysis, optimization theory etc, knowing the difference between LCOE, LCOS and LACE and when to know which one to chose when)Rice teaches the Carnage Mellon-Princeton methodology.

" LCOE and LCOS do not capture all of the factors that contribute to actual investment decisions, making direct comparisons of LCOE and LCOS across technologies problematic and misleading as a method to assess the economic competitiveness of various generation alternatives. "https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf   If you do not know what LCOS and LACE are then you are not on the cutting edge.

My bet is your education is so deficient that you can't do the math for LACE.

I am still waiting for your affirmation that you obtained an economics degree....still avoiding that one? 

I will have to conclude that it never happened.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

2 hours ago, nsdp said:

A piece of paper was signed by president Trump.  Due to deficiencies in its preparation the US District Court  ruled it was void and remanded to the COE for completion. This was affirmed by the 9th Circuit and  Cert denied by the Supreme Court.  A Permit cannot be validated by the president when it has previously judged to be void and by a district court and is pending appeal  to a circuit court of appeals.

You seem to have trouble identifying which permit you are referring to. Try speaking in straightforward language with precision.

The Presidential permit was on the books until Biden & Co. rescinded it. The Supreme Court did not strike down the Presidential permit.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Ecocharger

[nsdp + 449]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:31 PM, Ecocharger said:

You seem to have trouble identifying which permit you are referring to. Try speaking in straightforward language with precision.

The Presidential permit was on the books until Biden & Co. rescinded it. The Supreme Court did not strike down the Presidential permit.

No, the Supreme Court denied Cert. which not the same as striking down something. Read the Federal Rules of Appellate procedure on remanded cases. Supreme Court denial of Cert means they. told COE "  on a reasonable basis" you screwed up the EIS preparation so go back and try again"That means the 9th circuit opinion saying that the permit is incomplete remains  in full force and effect and that the COE failed to properly prepare a EIS.  That sent the case back to the COE.  The permit was in limbo as it was incomplete AFTER the District Court found that COE used the wrong standard for major river crossings. .  If you have ever read NEPA you would know. https://elr.info/sites/default/files/articles/18.10331.htm  The 9th Circcuit standard is the "reasonableness" of the decision" to not prepare an EIS

I wish all of the lawyers I faced were as big of a fool as you are.   Even the Outhouse Bar association would disbar you.

 

[nsdp + 449]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:28 PM, Ecocharger said:

I am still waiting for your affirmation that you obtained an economics degree....still avoiding that one? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

S

 

 

"Reply posted Sat July 31 at 2:34 pm

Triple major,math science, space physics and economics from Rice.  Did you major in any thing more difficult than business adm or basket weaving or radio/tv?"

Where did you get your degree from Trump University?? Did you get your tuition refund?

 

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

16 hours ago, nsdp said:

No, the Supreme Court denied Cert. which not the same as striking down something. Read the Federal Rules of Appellate procedure on remanded cases. Supreme Court denial of Cert means they. told COE "  on a reasonable basis" you screwed up the EIS preparation so go back and try again"That means the 9th circuit opinion saying that the permit is incomplete remains  in full force and effect and that the COE failed to properly prepare a EIS.  That sent the case back to the COE.  The permit was in limbo as it was incomplete AFTER the District Court found that COE used the wrong standard for major river crossings. .  If you have ever read NEPA you would know. https://elr.info/sites/default/files/articles/18.10331.htm  The 9th Circcuit standard is the "reasonableness" of the decision" to not prepare an EIS

I wish all of the lawyers I faced were as big of a fool as you are.   Even the Outhouse Bar association would disbar you.

 

Again, you are way off topic, none of this stuff is related to the rescission of the Presidential permit by Biden & Co.