What happens when the Chinese decide to deprive you of their vast market?

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Do you ask for a do-over? Tesla might be rethinking all that boot licking since it obviously didn't work. The rub of working with a despotic regime. We'll see the same soon enough with Xiden

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

The "recall" was fixed with an over the air update. 

Tesla did make the mistake of responding to the crazy lady like they were in the US. But that was far more of a cultural issue than an authoritarian issue. 

Many of the social media posts were being driven by the govt controlled news outlets. That is why Tesla complained to the govt.]

And finally, their China sales are not down. That is just another right wing / TSLAQ lie. 

In June, Tesla once again significantly increased its EV sales in China, reaching one of the highest levels ever.

The total volume (sales and export) - according to the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA)'s data (via Reuters and Moneyball's reports) - stands at 33,155 Made-in-China (MIC) Model 3/Model Y, which appears to be the third-highest monthly result ever! The year-over-year growth stands at over 122%!

* CPCA reports wholesale shipments, not registrations/deliveries.

The past four months were actually the best four months for Tesla Giga Shanghai sales:

The number of 33,155 includes:

• 28,138 MIC Tesla cars sold in China (up 88% year-over-year and the 2nd best result ever)
• 5,017 cars exported (only the Model 3 is exported).

   

   

[RichieRich216 + 454]

What happens if consumers don’t purchase from China and source elsewhere?

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

39 minutes ago, RichieRich216 said:

What happens if consumers don’t purchase from China and source elsewhere?

Then the China factory will just sell to the Chinese. Seems simple enough. Don't forget that Teslas sold in the US are the Most American Made Car in our market.

[Boat + 1,315]

China has plenty of problems but who doesn’t. Musk is one of the greatest capitalists ever pointed out a Chinese success even if raciest people don’t like it. China has pulled more humans out of poverty than the US has humans. That is just a fact. I’m the guy who would turn back cargo ships for their stance on Taiwan, Hong Congress and the South China Sea. Those are issues, not a comment about an achievement. This is how you to can think if you buy my $19.99 video, “Learning to Think Woke”. 

[Boat + 1,315]

Let’s revisit the Idea China is dependent on the West for exports. What if we shut China out. Same with Russia. Not that Russia matters much, being so small. Chinas destiny depends on its trading partners. It is entirely possible to change Chinas behavior or shift trade elsewhere. To this point the West has not used the power of trade as a big enough weapon. We should not only be supporting our Australian brothers but organize the Japanese, S Korean, India, Europe, and Canada to bend China behavior towards more normal behavior. 

[Meredith Poor + 883]

If China's population in 1980 was 1 billion people (based on a UN census taken at the time) and the '1 child policy' was enacted in 1978, then how does China's population increase by 100 million in 1990, and again in 2000, and again in 2010, and now in 2020? More than likely China's real population is somewhere between 800 million and 900 million.

100 million people is about the population of Viet Nam. If China's native born population was 'below replacement', then there are two ways to get 100 million additional people - improve lifespan by 10 years, or allow or promote immigration. Increasing lifespan by ten years might have been possible between 1980 and 1990. Maybe even between 1990 and 2000. After 2000, however, average lifespan would have to have 'improved' to 85 years, and in 2010 to 95 years. Not likely.

Something on the scale of an entire country the size of Viet Nam migrating into China would have severely impacted population statistics elsewhere - Russia's population is about 140 million and Japan's is about 125 million.

Improving life expectancy simply means China now has several hundred million more people of retirement age.

These numbers appear designed to terrorize neighbors, particularly the US - 'Mine's bigger'. Perhaps it is, but not by as much as you imagine.

India's population numbers are similarly suspect. They claim to be 'closing in' on China's population count. Many demographers in India have noted that most states/provinces have below replacement birth rates, particularly in highly urban areas. India's population growth rate may be higher than China's, but it still may not match the numbers the Indian government is publishing.

[RichieRich216 + 454]

12 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Then the China factory will just sell to the Chinese. Seems simple enough. Don't forget that Teslas sold in the US are the Most American Made Car in our market.

The majority of the mass population lives below The poverty line of Africa. Reason they built sprawling empty cities to move population around and not allow majority of population to even know what the 21st century’s like. At end of the day doesn’t really matter because we are heading towards a nuclear exchange anyway, just a matter of time and time is running out, to many hot spots around the world.

 

 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

3 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

If China's population in 1980 was 1 billion people (based on a UN census taken at the time) and the '1 child policy' was enacted in 1978, then how does China's population increase by 100 million in 1990, and again in 2000, and again in 2010, and now in 2020? More than likely China's real population is somewhere between 800 million and 900 million.

100 million people is about the population of Viet Nam. If China's native born population was 'below replacement', then there are two ways to get 100 million additional people - improve lifespan by 10 years, or allow or promote immigration. Increasing lifespan by ten years might have been possible between 1980 and 1990. Maybe even between 1990 and 2000. After 2000, however, average lifespan would have to have 'improved' to 85 years, and in 2010 to 95 years. Not likely.

Something on the scale of an entire country the size of Viet Nam migrating into China would have severely impacted population statistics elsewhere - Russia's population is about 140 million and Japan's is about 125 million.

Improving life expectancy simply means China now has several hundred million more people of retirement age.

These numbers appear designed to terrorize neighbors, particularly the US - 'Mine's bigger'. Perhaps it is, but not by as much as you imagine.

India's population numbers are similarly suspect. They claim to be 'closing in' on China's population count. Many demographers in India have noted that most states/provinces have below replacement birth rates, particularly in highly urban areas. India's population growth rate may be higher than China's, but it still may not match the numbers the Indian government is publishing.

It's not hard to understand really - there are three parts to it:

• Increased life expectancy - China has seen radical increases in life expectancy in the last 50 years or so - not 10 years more like 20 or 30 years.  However it didn't start at 65 as you seem to imply! it started somewhere in the range of from late 40's - early 50's and has moved up to the mid to late 70's.  
• 1 child isn't zero children - more people are being added to the nation, and if people don't die nearly as often (see increased life expectancy) then total population still goes up.
• Cheating and exemptions - not every group/area in China was subject to the 1 child policy, and it wasn't strictly enforced everywhere.

Your second point is critical though - China is/will be having a demographic mess on their hands soon, due to a greatly increased retirement age population.  

India is following a similar trajectory, but starting much later - again - low birth rates right now don't mean that the population isn't expanding as a whole due to continued births, and greatly increased life expectancy.  Life expectancy increases are once again enormous in the range of 20-30 years.  

Both societies are going through a transition from a life expectancy similar to that of subsaharan Africa, to a 'modern' 1st world life expectancy within 50 years or so.  That makes it incredibly easy for populations to balloon enormously simply because people aren't dying as often.  At first this has to do with greatly reduced infant and child mortality, then later it shows up as increased total lifespan for those who make it to adulthood.  

[RichieRich216 + 454]

1 hour ago, RichieRich216 said:

The majority of the mass population lives below The poverty line of Africa. Reason they built sprawling empty cities to move population around and not allow majority of population to even know what the 21st century’s like. At end of the day doesn’t really matter because we are heading towards a nuclear exchange anyway, just a matter of time and time is running out, to many hot spots around the world.

 

 

And the SOY they are using for wiring insulation is going over really BIG with 🐀 rats, They didn’t think that through..

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

Coal production is zooming upwards in both China and India. Have to power those EVs going forward.

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

14 hours ago, Boat said:

China has plenty of problems but who doesn’t. Musk is one of the greatest capitalists ever pointed out a Chinese success even if raciest people don’t like it. China has pulled more humans out of poverty than the US has humans. That is just a fact. I’m the guy who would turn back cargo ships for their stance on Taiwan, Hong Congress and the South China Sea. Those are issues, not a comment about an achievement. This is how you to can think if you buy my $19.99 video, “Learning to Think Woke”. 

Tell me about China's standards of living. I'm most eager to hear. 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Coal production is zooming upwards in both China and India. Have to power those EVs going forward.

I've always been entertained by their use of acetylene as an industrial gas substitute derived from coal. Not enough NG coming in from Russia yet. 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

18 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Coal production is zooming upwards in both China and India. Have to power those EVs going forward.

Actually, Chinese coal production has levelled off, or even dropped recently, and it appears that they can't extract it any faster than they already are.  I wrote a couple of article about it here - this is the first one with the production data.  https://epgsolutionsco.com/articles-and-news-blog/f/china-is-running-out-of-coal

[Rob Plant + 2,608]

39 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

Actually, Chinese coal production has levelled off, or even dropped recently, and it appears that they can't extract it any faster than they already are.  I wrote a couple of article about it here - this is the first one with the production data.  https://epgsolutionsco.com/articles-and-news-blog/f/china-is-running-out-of-coal

Yep and they aint buying any from OZ either

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Coal/Coal-Prices-Soar-As-China-Refuses-To-Buy-From-Australia.html

[J.R. Ewing + 19]

On 7/11/2021 at 8:49 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

The "recall" was fixed with an over the air update. 

Tesla did make the mistake of responding to the crazy lady like they were in the US. But that was far more of a cultural issue than an authoritarian issue. 

Many of the social media posts were being driven by the govt controlled news outlets. That is why Tesla complained to the govt.]

And finally, their China sales are not down. That is just another right wing / TSLAQ lie. 

In June, Tesla once again significantly increased its EV sales in China, reaching one of the highest levels ever.

The total volume (sales and export) - according to the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA)'s data (via Reuters and Moneyball's reports) - stands at 33,155 Made-in-China (MIC) Model 3/Model Y, which appears to be the third-highest monthly result ever! The year-over-year growth stands at over 122%!

* CPCA reports wholesale shipments, not registrations/deliveries.

The past four months were actually the best four months for Tesla Giga Shanghai sales:

The number of 33,155 includes:

• 28,138 MIC Tesla cars sold in China (up 88% year-over-year and the 2nd best result ever)
• 5,017 cars exported (only the Model 3 is exported).

   

   

So many stupid, dishonest liberals like Jay these days.  Doing his best Baghdad Bob impersonation, Jay lied and said "In June, Tesla once again significantly increased its EV sales in China."

Jay forgot to look at his own chart which shows that June sales were lower than both March and May.  Also, JL Warren Capital reports that Tesla's new orders are down 50% since April.  

Useful idiot gonna useful idiot.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 hour ago, J.R. Ewing said:

So many stupid, dishonest liberals like Jay these days.  Doing his best Baghdad Bob impersonation, Jay lied and said "In June, Tesla once again significantly increased its EV sales in China."

Jay forgot to look at his own chart which shows that June sales were lower than both March and May.  Also, JL Warren Capital reports that Tesla's new orders are down 50% since April.  

Useful idiot gonna useful idiot.

Year over year is the industry standard for comparing sales you nincompoop.

"The year-over-year growth stands at over 122%!"

J.L. Warren are the TSLAQ liars, try not being so gullible. Tesla China sales are up by 30% since April

++++++++++++++++++

"Tesla Model Y Standard Range has the green light in China and tons of orders, according to reports.

According to unconfirmed media reports from China, the newly introduced entry-level MIC Tesla Model Y Standard Range RWD version attracts a lot of potential customers.

It would not surprise us, as the Chinese EV market appears to be very price sensitive. This is why the MIC Tesla Model 3 Standard Range sells well, and why there is a high demand for tiny EVs.

Moneyball reports that a Tesla Beijing sales consultant says that the number of orders exceeded 10,000 on the first day, and then 5,000 on the second day."

Edited July 14, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Boat + 1,315]

On 7/12/2021 at 11:44 AM, Eric Gagen said:

It's not hard to understand really - there are three parts to it:

• Increased life expectancy - China has seen radical increases in life expectancy in the last 50 years or so - not 10 years more like 20 or 30 years.  However it didn't start at 65 as you seem to imply! it started somewhere in the range of from late 40's - early 50's and has moved up to the mid to late 70's.  
• 1 child isn't zero children - more people are being added to the nation, and if people don't die nearly as often (see increased life expectancy) then total population still goes up.
• Cheating and exemptions - not every group/area in China was subject to the 1 child policy, and it wasn't strictly enforced everywhere.

Your second point is critical though - China is/will be having a demographic mess on their hands soon, due to a greatly increased retirement age population.  

India is following a similar trajectory, but starting much later - again - low birth rates right now don't mean that the population isn't expanding as a whole due to continued births, and greatly increased life expectancy.  Life expectancy increases are once again enormous in the range of 20-30 years.  

Both societies are going through a transition from a life expectancy similar to that of subsaharan Africa, to a 'modern' 1st world life expectancy within 50 years or so.  That makes it incredibly easy for populations to balloon enormously simply because people aren't dying as often.  At first this has to do with greatly reduced infant and child mortality, then later it shows up as increased total lifespan for those who make it to adulthood.  

Back when I was a young man pac- man and the Commodore 64 were hot. The age of the computer for the masses was birthed. After an experiance with mushrooms at a lake, the world of change and some of the ramifications of information sharing on a global scale was revealed along with some hallucinagenitc effects. Let’s jump to global issues. Intuitively I think bad may be rewarded in the short term but not the long term.
Let’s take on the idea China is cracking down on so many items they have issue with and using coercion to push parts of their agenda. Slowing big data or attempts to control big data will scare off trading partners. Just like claiming the South China Sea and sending out armadas of fishing boats will not increase trade good will. Keep track of Australia relations with China? Japan says China attacking Taiwan crosses a red line of defense capabilities being ok to deploy. 
This is why I don’t worry about the Chinas, the Russians, N Koreans and Trump types. They mess up business. They disrupt trade. The more woke populations around the world get the less tolerance for disrupters there will be. You want or need help? Tech will have the answer. Politicians? Not so much. 
With all the politicians and systems in the history of the world, name one that is not a failure. Get woke world and build a better widget.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Boat

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

On 7/12/2021 at 12:02 PM, KeyboardWarrior said:

Tell me about China's standards of living. I'm most eager to hear. 

I find that commentary quite profound and halarious at the same time. 

Boat you have been "WOKEN" plzz articulate. This should be extraordinary..

[Ecocharger + 1,375]

On 7/13/2021 at 8:02 AM, Eric Gagen said:

Actually, Chinese coal production has levelled off, or even dropped recently, and it appears that they can't extract it any faster than they already are.  I wrote a couple of article about it here - this is the first one with the production data.  https://epgsolutionsco.com/articles-and-news-blog/f/china-is-running-out-of-coal

China has plans for rapid coal development going forward. Gotta power those EVs.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

8 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

China has plans for rapid coal development going forward. Gotta power those EVs.

Read the article I posted - having plans for development, and having plans to expand production aren't the same thing.  China has a lot of plans to utilize coal more efficiently, and to consolidate the use of labor and capital in it's mining sector but increase production? not really.