Los Angeles to Open Five New Natural Gas Plants to Avoid More Outages.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://californiaglobe.com/fr/california-adding-5-temporary-natural-gas-power-plants-to-help-alleviate-energy-shortage/

Not mentioned is the loss of hydroelectric power due to all the major reservoirs being near empty. The increased power needs for electric vehicles, etc. This will be an ongoing problem for California and other states with poor leadership. Maybe they can learn something from California's failures. 

Oil and natural gas allowed California to become the most populous and wealthiest state in the country. It ranks seventh among nations of the world (if it were a nation). 

https://poweringcalifornia.com/the-history-of-oil-and-natural-gas-in-california/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_oil_in_California_through_1930

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industry

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by ronwagn
reference

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

https://californiaglobe.com/fr/california-adding-5-temporary-natural-gas-power-plants-to-help-alleviate-energy-shortage/

Not mentioned is the loss of hydroelectric power due to all the major reservoirs being near empty. The increased power needs for electric vehicles, etc. This will be an ongoing problem for California and other states with poor leadership. Maybe they can learn something from California's failures. 

Oil and natural gas allowed California to become the most populous and wealthiest state in the country. It ranks seventh among nations of the world (if it were a nation). 

https://poweringcalifornia.com/the-history-of-oil-and-natural-gas-in-california/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_oil_in_California_through_1930

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_oil_and_gas_industry

 

 

 

 

 

Five 30MW backup generators for a whopping 150MW.   Half of the 300MW we lost when a CCGT blew up a couple months ago sending shrapnel across Hayward. https://www.ktvu.com/news/plant-explosion-sends-heavy-metal-and-shrapnel-flying-in-hayward-cause-unknown

[ronwagn + 6,290]

I am talking about Los Angeles. They Mayor reversed his prior decison on the strong advice of his energy advisors. 

Natural gas is the answer to all of California's electricity deficits. Especially with electric cars in vogue. All other solutions make less sense. Californians do not want more wind turbines destroying beautiful state. Natural gas is as clean as it gets. Natural gas is used in large trucks in California and around the world. It should be used in all ships as well. Progress is being made in that regards also.

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by ronwagn
add

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I am talking about Los Angeles. They Mayor reversed his prior decison on the strong advice of his energy advisors. 

Natural gas is the answer to all of California's electricity deficits. Especially with electric cars in vogue. All other solutions make less sense. Californians do not want more wind turbines destroying beautiful state. Natural gas is as clean as it gets. Natural gas is used in large trucks in California and around the world. It should be used in all ships as well. Progress is being made in that regards also.

 

No, it is not LA and it has nothing to do with their mayor. The generators will all be in Northern California.

The California Energy Commission (CEC) has approved licenses for gas-fired power units to help the state cope with continued electricity shortages. The move comes after Gov. Gavin Newsom earlier declared a state of emergency for California’s power grid.

The state’s Dept. of Water Resources is procuring what it called five temporary gas-fueled generators, each with generation capacity of 30 MW, to install at existing power plants. The CEC on Aug. 17 approved licenses, good for up to five years, for the generators.

https://www.powermag.com/california-will-add-gas-fired-units-to-increase-power-supply/

The generators will all be in Northern Califronia:

Patterson confirmed news of the plants during a press conference Friday. His office later told The Bee that one of the generators will be installed at Midway Peaking Plant near Mendota in Fresno County.

His office confirmed plants would also be sited in Yuba City in Sutter County and Roseville in Placer County. Two generators will be at Calpine Greenleaf 1 located near Yuba City, Patterson’s office told The Bee late Friday. Two more will be installed at the Roseville Energy Park located near Roseville.

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253638523.html

[ronwagn + 6,290]

My mistake, this is a bigger issue about natural gas plants that were kept working in Southern California https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-09-01/california-gas-plants-stay-open-time-runs-low-for-climate-action 

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Not very green of them, but with decades of mismanagement and little foresight, being too busy with A political agenda..

[turbguy + 1,391]

17 hours ago, ronwagn said:

My mistake, this is a bigger issue about natural gas plants that were kept working in Southern California https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-09-01/california-gas-plants-stay-open-time-runs-low-for-climate-action 

Electricity sure is addicting, no?

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

On 8/29/2021 at 1:56 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

N

The California Energy Commission (CEC) has approved licenses for gas-fired power units to help the state cope with continued electricity shortages. The move comes after Gov. Gavin Newsom earlier declared a state of emergency for California’s power grid.

 

Get used to it, this is the shape of things to come over the next decade:  foolish Green Dreams absorb the political structure, wild plans are hatched to adopt Green Dream energy for the future, these wild ideas result in electricity shortages and out-of-control wild fires. End result...back to basics, use of fossil fuels to meet American energy needs.

The wokes get woked-up.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

30 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Get used to it, this is the shape of things to come over the next decade:  foolish Green Dreams absorb the political structure, wild plans are hatched to adopt Green Dream energy for the future, these wild ideas result in electricity shortages and out-of-control wild fires. End result...back to basics, use of fossil fuels to meet American energy needs.

The wokes get woked-up.

I know you don't understand how anything works so a quick science lesson for you: a downed electric line carrying electricity generated by fossil fuels starts fires just the same as if the electricity came from solar. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

19 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I know you don't understand how anything works so a quick science lesson for you: a downed electric line with electricity generated by fossil fuels starts fires just the same as if the electricity came from solar. 

If everything runs on electricity, as per wild Green Dream ideas, then you get more power lines in use and overheating and more wild fires. Wild, man.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

If everything runs on electricity, as per wild Green Dream ideas, then you get more power lines in use and overheating and more wild fires. Wild, man.

Pretty much the same number of power lines we have in use now. The lines aren't overheating they are getting knocked down in high winds.

[Ecocharger + 1,374]

40 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Pretty much the same number of power lines we have in use now. The lines aren't overheating they are getting knocked down in high winds.

More power lines going forward means more power lines getting knocked down by wild winds and more wild fires....you and I are ahead of the game, Jay. We run our cars on good old gasoline, we do not cause any wild fires in the forest.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

39 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

More power lines going forward means more power lines getting knocked down by wild winds and more wild fires....you and I are ahead of the game, Jay. We run our cars on good old gasoline, we do not cause any wild fires in the forest.

Power lines already go to every house and business. Don't need anymore. 

[Boat + 1,315]

On 8/29/2021 at 10:20 AM, ronwagn said:

I am talking about Los Angeles. They Mayor reversed his prior decison on the strong advice of his energy advisors. 

Natural gas is the answer to all of California's electricity deficits. Especially with electric cars in vogue. All other solutions make less sense. Californians do not want more wind turbines destroying beautiful state. Natural gas is as clean as it gets. Natural gas is used in large trucks in California and around the world. It should be used in all ships as well. Progress is being made in that regards also.

 

Electric cars haven’t taken off yet due to cost. But if tech has a few more breakthroughs I’m pretty certain more nat gas plants will be needed. I would suspect they would be built in lower wind and lower sun areas. Some of this depends on how much the government wants to get involved with transmission lines and integrating electrical grids. But yea, nat gas as a bridge fuel is predicted.

[Boat + 1,315]

From Texas to N Dakota to California through Arizona back to Texas is a no brainer for being on the same grid.  Large amounts of land based wind and solar over a huge area. That’s what solves intermittency. Rather than tax credits for cars, wind and solar I believe the money is better spent on a grid. The rest will happen anyways as tech improves. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,537]

9 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

I know you don't understand how anything works so a quick science lesson for you: a downed electric line carrying electricity generated by fossil fuels starts fires just the same as if the electricity came from solar. 

All i care to know is your supplier of bandaids you seem to have a endless supply. And your energy is limitless, ive often wondered if that could be tapped?

But I am amiss here and need guidance. California'spopulation is shrinking,businesses are shutting down, demand for energy is falling. And yet Brown outs are common and now new temporary gas plants are being implemented for emergency services.

It would seem you are going to need a plethora of new bandaids, so as to this supply source would/ could you be so kind as to providing the source? I see a market bubble forming. 

[Boat + 1,315]

4 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

All i care to know is your supplier of bandaids you seem to have a endless supply. And your energy is limitless, ive often wondered if that could be tapped?

But I am amiss here and need guidance. California'spopulation is shrinking,businesses are shutting down, demand for energy is falling. And yet Brown outs are common and now new temporary gas plants are being implemented for emergency services.

It would seem you are going to need a plethora of new bandaids, so as to this supply source would/ could you be so kind as to providing the source? I see a market bubble forming. 
 

So a state with 40 million people lose a couple hundred thousand and that has what to do with energy? Climate change has everything to do with the wild fires and droughts which is fueled of course by pollution from FF. When enough die you might wake up. Battery prices keep dropping and the mega plants to build them are on the way. 

 

[Boat + 1,315]

Calif gdp is bigger than India. Since India has population I suppose you rednecks think that’s strength? Russia gets punked then? Calif gdp is bigger than Australia and the UK together. Trashing Calif which is very Republican is like saying Trump won. Just not in the courts. Silicone Valley and jobs love  Calif. They even give brown people healthcare. They even welcome all diversity. Their helping lead the world toward healthier lungs. 

[nsdp + 449]

On 8/29/2021 at 12:56 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

No, it is not LA and it has nothing to do with their mayor. The generators will all be in Northern California.

The California Energy Commission (CEC) has approved licenses for gas-fired power units to help the state cope with continued electricity shortages. The move comes after Gov. Gavin Newsom earlier declared a state of emergency for California’s power grid.

The state’s Dept. of Water Resources is procuring what it called five temporary gas-fueled generators, each with generation capacity of 30 MW, to install at existing power plants. The CEC on Aug. 17 approved licenses, good for up to five years, for the generators.

https://www.powermag.com/california-will-add-gas-fired-units-to-increase-power-supply/

The generators will all be in Northern Califronia:

Patterson confirmed news of the plants during a press conference Friday. His office later told The Bee that one of the generators will be installed at Midway Peaking Plant near Mendota in Fresno County.

His office confirmed plants would also be sited in Yuba City in Sutter County and Roseville in Placer County. Two generators will be at Calpine Greenleaf 1 located near Yuba City, Patterson’s office told The Bee late Friday. Two more will be installed at the Roseville Energy Park located near Roseville.

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253638523.html

 

10 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

All i care to know is your supplier of bandaids you seem to have a endless supply. And your energy is limitless, ive often wondered if that could be tapped?

But I am amiss here and need guidance. California'spopulation is shrinking,businesses are shutting down, demand for energy is falling. And yet Brown outs are common and now new temporary gas plants are being implemented for emergency services.

It would seem you are going to need a plethora of new bandaids, so as to this supply source would/ could you be so kind asundeermined  to providing the source? I see a market bubble forming. 

Amazing the stupidity you spout. If you had ever read the WECC  Constraints and Needs  Reliability Report(do any of you other than turbo and Jay know how to find the current edition and what it means) filed with NERC.   Problems in this area date back  to Gov. Wilson's CPUC's failure to authorize  replacement of a 69kv line built in 1920 after 75 years and developing cracks in the structures.  Collapse of that line in 2018 started the Paradise fire  which also damaged other 69kv lines creating parallel path problems.  These generators are a faster fix  than replacing 1000 miles of obsolete circuits and about a billion dollars cheaper.  

Jay is Calpine's Sutter plant https://www.calpine.com/sutter-energy-center still serviceable o r has it been  retired too long? That is the better fix along with replacing 100 year old transmission that falls down frequently.

EWO, The under investment began when Reagan replaced Brown,Sr as gov. and Reagan halted the replacement of2400/4160 volt distribution with 7200/ 12470 volt distribution and replacement of 50-75 year old 69kv with 115kv or 230kv transmission.  Reagan started the bandaids so he could take credit for cutting electric rates.

The WECC Constraints  and Needs Report is punished annually. Has all the answers you need if ypou can do the math. .  You will need me to ship you to ship you a couple of tons of Exlax so you can see enough through your navel. to read the report clearly.  I still have enough to supply you too Ron.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

11 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

All i care to know is your supplier of bandaids you seem to have a endless supply. And your energy is limitless, ive often wondered if that could be tapped?

But I am amiss here and need guidance. California'spopulation is shrinking,businesses are shutting down, demand for energy is falling. And yet Brown outs are common and now new temporary gas plants are being implemented for emergency services.

It would seem you are going to need a plethora of new bandaids, so as to this supply source would/ could you be so kind as to providing the source? I see a market bubble forming. 

Sorry but I haven't heard of any brown outs since I was a kid in the 70's. Perhaps you could try getting your facts straight before pontificating?

If we rebuild the newish plant that blew up but was scheduled to be online till 2045, is that also a band aid?

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

35 minutes ago, nsdp said:

 

Amazing the stupidity you spout. If you had ever read the WECC  Constraints and Needs  Reliability Report(do any of you other than turbo and Jay know how to find the current edition and what it means) filed with NERC.   Problems in this area date back  to Gov. Wilson's CPUC's failure to authorize  replacement of a 69kv line built in 1920 after 75 years and developing cracks in the structures.  Collapse of that line in 2018 started the Paradise fire  which also damaged other 69kv lines creating parallel path problems.  These generators are a faster fix  than replacing 1000 miles of obsolete circuits and about a billion dollars cheaper.  

Jay is Calpine's Sutter plant https://www.calpine.com/sutter-energy-center still serviceable o r has it been  retired too long? That is the better fix along with replacing 100 year old transmission that falls down frequently.

EWO, The under investment began when Reagan replaced Brown,Sr as gov. and Reagan halted the replacement of2400/4160 volt distribution with 7200/ 12470 volt distribution and replacement of 50-75 year old 69kv with 115kv or 230kv transmission.  Reagan started the bandaids so he could take credit for cutting electric rates.

The WECC Constraints  and Needs Report is punished annually. Has all the answers you need if ypou can do the math. .  You will need me to ship you to ship you a couple of tons of Exlax so you can see enough through your navel. to read the report clearly.  I still have enough to supply you too Ron.

Sutter came back online a couple months ago to meet adequacy requirements. That 100 year old power line was unforgivable. 

[nsdp + 449]

6 hours ago, Boat said:

Calif gdp is bigger than India. Since India has population I suppose you rednecks think that’s strength? Russia gets punked then? Calif gdp is bigger than Australia and the UK together. Trashing Calif which is very Republican is like saying Trump won. Just not in the courts. Silicone Valley and jobs love  Calif. They even give brown people healthcare. They even welcome all diversity. Their helping lead the world toward healthier lungs. 

 

14 hours ago, Boat said:

From Texas to N Dakota to California through Arizona back to Texas is a no brainer for being on the same grid.  Large amounts of land based wind and solar over a huge area. That’s what solves intermittency. Rather than tax credits for cars, wind and solar I believe the money is better spent on a grid. The rest will happen anyways as tech improves. 

The I*2 R losses from Texas to California are too high without 800 KV and supporting generation along the line.   I did the engineering study for the SPP Blackwater NM interconnect to WECC and transfer to Market Place/McCullough near Hover Dam. Th at required support from SanJuan /Four corners or Navaho for the east side and from Palo Verde/Hasssyampa at the Marketplace terminal.   Coal strip in Montana is the only midstream support for North Dakota to PacNW.  It would need to be 5 times larger for voltage support.  North Dakota to Texas is a no go because it is 700 miles from Houston, or San Antonio Austin to the Texas Oklahoma  Panhandles and you still have 1100 miles to go.

This is the only project that doesn't defy the laws of Physics. https://www.forbes.com/sites/mitsubishiheavyindustries/2020/03/13/in-utah-hydrogen-and-a-massive-salt-dome-are-winning-the-west-for-renewable-energy/?sh=47cb51875c52  It also provides load imbalance services.

[Boat + 1,315]

On 8/29/2021 at 6:43 PM, RichieRich216 said:

Not very green of them, but with decades of mismanagement and little foresight, being too busy with A political agenda..

Their political agenda is cleaner air because pollution robs humans of health. Calif has huge cities and dirty cities. Our car culture and the need to commute sets the agenda. Texas is no different except they just don’t like to talk about destroyed lungs and rising healthcare costs from it. Both States are good at Capitalism so expect more measures to clean the air. It’s to expensive not to.

[nsdp + 449]

15 hours ago, Boat said:

Their political agenda is cleaner air because pollution robs humans of health. Calif has huge cities and dirty cities. Our car culture and the need to commute sets the agenda. Texas is no different except they just don’t like to talk about destroyed lungs and rising healthcare costs from it. Both States are good at Capitalism so expect more measures to land owners  the air. It’s to expensive not to.

Texas is a bit different because Agriculture views wind and solar as "mail box money" and there a lot more landowners than oilfield workers. Wind/solar also pays for new schools and county services. Wind benefits a lot more working farms than  oil does so it is not hard to see why Mitchell County  for example has much larger solar/wind tax roll than oil and gas. This is a case where the ultra low tax rates on oil and gas bites them in the ass at the local level. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 8/29/2021 at 6:43 PM, RichieRich216 said:

Not very green of them, but with decades of mismanagement and little foresight, being too busy with A political agenda..

The political agenda is from the eco nazis who think they have the best answers but don't. Natural gas is the best answer until something can do the job for less money and is equally clean. It is all about cost/benefit ratios in the real world. Any changes away from fossil fuels and biomass require many decades. People with large homes are paying $500 plus for electric bills in California. That is with living at about 75 degrees. Lower temps mean even more money. I just saw a relatives records and they are living at 4,000 feet elevation. 

Water bills are also very high and things will get worse next year unless lots of rain and snow shows up. California actually needs two good years to replace groundwater levels.