Is China Rising or Falling? Has it Enraged the World and Lost its Way? How is their Economy Doing?

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Australia is now considering reducing iron ore shipments to China. Why? Because China is looking for other suppliers and Australia can impact China by shutting down Chinese steel in the meantime. Australia can then use its own coal and iron ore to build its own steel industry!

With 1 push, Australia can cripple China’s economy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbffXfJ5CSY

And  https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/China-Further-Restricts-Power-Use-Amid-Widening-Energy-Crisis.html

 

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

9 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Australia is now considering reducing iron ore shipments to China. Why? Because China is looking for other suppliers and Australia can impact China by shutting down Chinese steel in the meantime. Australia can then use its own coal and iron ore to build its own steel industry!

With 1 push, Australia can cripple China’s economy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbffXfJ5CSY

And  https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/China-Further-Restricts-Power-Use-Amid-Widening-Energy-Crisis.html

 

China is willing to buy iron ore from Brazil Chile and Russia, is no the trump card that australia thinks it is, and in the Case of the first two they are more than willing to let china run large chunks of their countries in exchange for some capital

i suspect that without china Australian ore will have to sell at a discount, and one country that can take a plus of that is definitely India, and unlike china India isnt as arrogant with their parterns.

Cultivate arrogance, harvest enemies, the countries that are partners with china now will be their enemies in a couple decades.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Sebastian Meana

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, Sebastian Meana said:

China is willing to buy iron ore from Brazil Chile and Russia, is no the trump card that australia thinks it is, and in the Case of the first two they are more than willing to let china run large chunks of their countries in exchange for some capital

i suspect that without china Australian ore will have to sell at a discount, and one country that can take a plus of that is definitely India, and unlike china India isnt as arrogant with their parterns.

Cultivate arrogance, harvest enemies, the countries that are partners with china now will be their enemies in a couple decades.

India and others make sense with Australian investors perhaps. I doubt Australia could be competitive while using Australian workers except as leaders. 

https://www.steel.org.au/about-us/our-industry/ Australia

[strawroot 0]

You wish to predict the future based on some biased reports and fake news fabricated by the western propaganda machines? Good luck.

The least I can tell you is China is flourishing and surpassing the US is just a matter of time which won't be too long.

You were able to write long paragraphs of seemingly rational statements, and yet failed to catch the simplest nature of those copy & paste fake news. Are people like you the majority in western countries? Is it the success of the western propaganda or the failure of the western civilization? Sad.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

New information on great debt in China. 

China’s Local Governments Have ‘Hidden’ Debt Estimated at $8 Trillion or Nearly Half of the Country’s GDP

By Joe Hoft
Published October 5, 2021 at 1:30pm
394 Comments

[turbguy + 1,391]

This might be a post that some disagree with...

REAL PEOPLE live in China.  

They deserve both pity and respect, regardless of your politics.

[Rob Plant + 2,601]

On 9/29/2021 at 11:29 PM, ronwagn said:

You made some excellent points. There is truth in all of them. I am dubious of China making great inroads in South America because of the cultural differences but money may be enough to buy all the influence they need.

I think money talks Ron.

Regarding the cultural differences, China own most of Africa and their cultures couldn't be more different if you tried. However money and corruption within weak governments means China can own who they wish in South America just like Africa.

[Starschy + 211]

As long as Chinas Education System outperforms the US ones by 30% there wont be any decline.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

On 9/19/2021 at 6:11 PM, Meredith Poor said:

"TFIGlobal is....

Is this really a disinterested correspondent? India has various axes to grind

WION

Are you for real?  Name one media company which is unbiased?

None exist. 

WION may as well scream -- HINDU NATIONALIST as their title banner

Still listen to WION just as I listen to Al Jez etc. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

On 9/30/2021 at 4:41 AM, Sebastian Meana said:

China is willing to buy iron ore from Brazil Chile and Russia, is no the trump card that australia thinks it is, and in the Case of the

??? Brazil is nearly maximized sending Ore to China and the West( Europe, Turkey, Africa) and China is already trying to get more ore from Brazil and no can do currently.  Chile?  Maybe there is a magical mine in Chile which currently is not producing just waiting for several hundred metric tons orders to roll in.  I do not know where it is, if such exists.   I know there is a gargantuan iron ore deposit in Libya with at least 1000Gtons right at the surface of iron that could be developed with +65% iron content, but it has aluminum in it making it slightly more difficult to process but still is better than the stuff the USA/Canada/Sweden/Russia is using but not as good as the Kazak, Brazil, Australian Iron ore... meanwhile Chile's ANNUAL production is 14Mtons, Australia exports 900Mtons to China and a bunch more to Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan etc.  Russia?  They consume everything they produce exporting a "massive" ~1.M tons to China...

[Boat + 1,315]

On 9/30/2021 at 6:41 AM, Sebastian Meana said:

China is willing to buy iron ore from Brazil Chile and Russia, is no the trump card that australia thinks it is, and in the Case of the first two they are more than willing to let china run large chunks of their countries in exchange for some capital

i suspect that without china Australian ore will have to sell at a discount, and one country that can take a plus of that is definitely India, and unlike china India isnt as arrogant with their parterns.

Cultivate arrogance, harvest enemies, the countries that are partners with china now will be their enemies in a couple decades.

We agree on something. I have long thought Chinas government arrogance and draconian policies would neuter their potential.Japan learned from WWII. You would think that would have been a sign.

 

[Boat + 1,315]

On 9/19/2021 at 6:36 PM, ronwagn said:

https://tfiglobalnews.com/2021/09/09/from-toshiba-to-oki-japan-is-pulling-out-its-electronics-giants-out-of-china-at-breakneck-speed/  Our press doesn't seem to be following foreign affairs much anymore. We need to seek out the truth for ourselves.

For a couple of years China went from kind of difficult to stupid. As mentioned out of Chinas top 10 trading partners only Russia is not an allie with the US. It takes just a bit of cooperation to force China to bend or become Stone Age again.

[Boat + 1,315]

On 9/19/2021 at 6:36 PM, ronwagn said:

https://tfiglobalnews.com/2021/09/09/from-toshiba-to-oki-japan-is-pulling-out-its-electronics-giants-out-of-china-at-breakneck-speed/  Our press doesn't seem to be following foreign affairs much anymore. We need to seek out the truth for ourselves.

For a couple of years China went from kind of difficult to stupid. As mentioned out of Chinas top 10 trading partners only Russia is not an allie with the US. It takes just a bit of cooperation to force China to bend or become Stone Age again.

[Boat + 1,315]

On 9/19/2021 at 6:36 PM, ronwagn said:

https://tfiglobalnews.com/2021/09/09/from-toshiba-to-oki-japan-is-pulling-out-its-electronics-giants-out-of-china-at-breakneck-speed/  Our press doesn't seem to be following foreign affairs much anymore. We need to seek out the truth for ourselves.

For a couple of years China went from kind of difficult to stupid. As mentioned out of Chinas top 10 trading partners only Russia is not an allie with the US. It takes just a bit of cooperation to force China to bend or become Stone Age again.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

16 hours ago, Boat said:

For a couple of years China went from kind of difficult to stupid. As mentioned out of Chinas top 10 trading partners only Russia is not an allie with the US. It takes just a bit of cooperation to force China to bend or become Stone Age again.

That is true if the leaders of those countries are not bought off or compromised by Chinese money and secrets which may harm those leaders. I would not trust Biden to hold China's feet to the fire. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 10/6/2021 at 1:49 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Are you for real?  Name one media company which is unbiased?

None exist. 

WION may as well scream -- HINDU NATIONALIST as their title banner

Still listen to WION just as I listen to Al Jez etc. 

You have to read Associated Press, the L.A. Times etc to find out what most people are exposed to. I do know, by now, what to expect them to say and could write it for them. They all copy the A.P. line and they are the ones that tell them what words or terms are acceptable. For example not illegal alien, or alien, just immigrant, or refugee etc. Please see Subversion of Language https://knox.villagesoup.com/2015/09/17/subverting-the-language-1410925/#:~:text=2%3A to pervert or corrupt,the word "liberal" itself.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 10/6/2021 at 1:31 PM, Starschy said:

As long as Chinas Education System outperforms the US ones by 30% there wont be any decline.

Many of the smartest have already left for other countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Chinese

and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_emigration

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Emperor XI may not be as secure in his job as everyone thinks. His popularity seems to be in Biden territory. Xi has the advantage of running a virtual dictatorship however. 

https://www.theepochtimes.com/power-struggle-intensified-within-the-chinese-communist-party_4037358.html

[Andrew Neopalimy + 14]

«China marches on towards Fourth Industrial Revolution»

Pundit predictions of China's demise are the latest self-consoling illusions of a lazy elite who can't see the AI writing on the wall

By DAVID P. GOLDMAN

- China is serious, focused and disciplined in its campaign to lead the Fourth Industrial Revolution. The US at best gives lip service to the concept, and at worst ignores the problem, the better to focus on “diversity” and “equity.”

https://menafn.com/1102902778/Green-bubbles-threaten-to-pop-stock-markets 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Andrew Neopalimy

[Boat + 1,315]

Let’s see which consuming countries China is pissing off. Australia, US, India, Philippines, Vietnam, EU, Taiwan and Mexico for starters. If you want to maintain business and complete your 4th revolution should you threaten over 1/2 your customers? The fear of China is silly. It takes cooperation to grow. It takes trade to compete. 

[Boat + 1,315]

China has 119 corporations in the top 500. If the West decides cheap products are not worth the drama, tech will move their factories elsewhere. You need stability for business. 

[Boat + 1,315]

On 9/19/2021 at 6:36 PM, ronwagn said:

https://tfiglobalnews.com/2021/09/09/from-toshiba-to-oki-japan-is-pulling-out-its-electronics-giants-out-of-china-at-breakneck-speed/  Our press doesn't seem to be following foreign affairs much anymore. We need to seek out the truth for ourselves.

China is all over YouTube if you know how to search. Kinda like the internet. You can hang with people who think like you or search for different takes on religion, business, politics, science, tech, art, entertainment etc.

[Chuko + 4]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:36 AM, ronwagn said:

7. The apparent failure of its Belt and Road initiative in which it has invested tens of billions of dollars.

I'd really love to see how you came to this conclusion. When I regularly see news e.g. about 56% growth in 2020 rail freight transit volume on China-Europe line to 1.14 million TEU - up over a million TEU over last decade, or about billions of dollars invested by Poland and Kazakhstan into rail border crossings because they've been running at capacity or Finland expanding Vuosaari Port for goods to be transferred from or onto the trains that are bound east towards Asia, I've never seen that as a sign of BRI's apparent failure. Should I have? The successfully completed pipelines to Turkmenistan and Russia(both ESPO and Power of Siberia) also seem to further the BRI goals and not to prove its failure. As do the numerous ports that China owns and operates in Indian Ocean alleviating the threat of sea blockade.

I would understand a criticism of BRI from the perspective that many of the goals stated (increasing trade with neighbors) and many of the most successful BRI projects were well under way of being achieved and implemented before the initiative was announced. So BRI was partially about packaging and marketing already existing plans and developments into a neat and easy to remember slogan of New Silk Road. But to say that the initiative had completely failed is at least strange.

[Chuko + 4]

On 10/12/2021 at 6:33 AM, Boat said:

Let’s see which consuming countries China is pissing off. Australia, US, India, Philippines, Vietnam, EU, Taiwan and Mexico for starters. If you want to maintain business and complete your 4th revolution should you threaten over 1/2 your customers? The fear of China is silly. It takes cooperation to grow. It takes trade to compete. 

That's an interesting viewpoint. From where I'm sitting it looks like USA has been losing in economic and technological competition and so decided to overturn the table by starting an information war and trying to build a coalition for a war against China.

They sent Kamala Harris to Vietnam on an "America is back" visit and to talk near a memorial to the downing of an American war plane about the heroism of McCain. After finally meeting a Vietnamese official she goes on to slam China in a way that forced Vietnam foreign ministry to call China and explain that her words have nothing to do with the Vietnamese official position (Diplo talk for calling Harris a crazy person). After extremely vague and noncommittal end to her visit Vietnam and China organise a high level meeting to tell the world that they seek peace and trade with each other, commit to not plot with any third party against each other and talk about values the two communist countries share. Vietnam has definitely been pissed off, but I don't think it was the Chinese doing.

Similar story happened with India. US convinced India to sign the Quad statement. When agreeing to sign it India insisted on watering down all passages that could be seen as criticism of China and on adding lines about ensuring that the region remains inclusive and open. Having signed the statement India analysed who helped farmers protests against Modi's government, what happened to American allies in Afghanistan and how France was treated by the AUKUS deal. Next thing you know Modi is visiting SCO and BRICS meetings and making deals with Russia on increases in buying military and nuclear energy equipment as well as on joint military exercises.

Really only Australia, Taiwan, Japan and UK are truly supporting USA in their antagonism to China. Even New Zealand, Canada and S.Korea despite their dependence on US try to avoid taking a clear position. With the last two administrations being as they are, it'd be a miracle if other countries wanted to join American cause.

[Boat + 1,315]

On 10/13/2021 at 2:26 PM, Chuko said:

That's an interesting viewpoint. From where I'm sitting it looks like USA has been losing in economic and technological competition and so decided to overturn the table by starting an information war and trying to build a coalition for a war against China.

They sent Kamala Harris to Vietnam on an "America is back" visit and to talk near a memorial to the downing of an American war plane about the heroism of McCain. After finally meeting a Vietnamese official she goes on to slam China in a way that forced Vietnam foreign ministry to call China and explain that her words have nothing to do with the Vietnamese official position (Diplo talk for calling Harris a crazy person). After extremely vague and noncommittal end to her visit Vietnam and China organise a high level meeting to tell the world that they seek peace and trade with each other, commit to not plot with any third party against each other and talk about values the two communist countries share. Vietnam has definitely been pissed off, but I don't think it was the Chinese doing.

Similar story happened with India. US convinced India to sign the Quad statement. When agreeing to sign it India insisted on watering down all passages that could be seen as criticism of China and on adding lines about ensuring that the region remains inclusive and open. Having signed the statement India analysed who helped farmers protests against Modi's government, what happened to American allies in Afghanistan and how France was treated by the AUKUS deal. Next thing you know Modi is visiting SCO and BRICS meetings and making deals with Russia on increases in buying military and nuclear energy equipment as well as on joint military exercises.

Really only Australia, Taiwan, Japan and UK are truly supporting USA in their antagonism to China. Even New Zealand, Canada and S.Korea despite their dependence on US try to avoid taking a clear position. With the last two administrations being as they are, it'd be a miracle if other countries wanted to join American cause.

You didn’t mention stealing tech from the US like tech from their most advanced fighter the F-35. Then the claim of owning the South China Sea which borders many of our allies in that area. That drama is unneeded and self inflected. Does China forget how the US freed China from the Japanese after WWII and willingly allowed China to join trading with the world. China becoming radicalized has happened over the last 10 years since XI took over. Before that China was viewed as an emerging Country and their advancement was looked on as favorable. Today’s China has navy’s from around the world warning them that bad behavior will be met. You blew off India, Vietnam, Singapore and other countries that developed trade with China only to have their trade and fishing threatened. China could easily cooperate with its neighbors, support trade and be a reliable partner. The Communist ruling party has instead has become confrontational and unreliable. The question is why and why now.