Green Groups Thwarting Geothermal Solutions to Energy Problems

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

10 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Is it really the first? I find that hard to believe.

In any case, all plutonium breeders are energy positive once the cycle is complete. So positive that if all mined uranium was sent through this cycle, we'd have nuclear power for millions of years at our current consumption. 

AFAIK, that hasn't really been demonstrated, except in benchtop prototypes so far. The problem is random junk that is neither plutonium nor fissionable uranium. Possibly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oganesson ?(which exists as a retribution for seaborgium

This one is supposed to be regularly energy positive, producing 300 MWt (1200 in upgraded version)  while breeding. That is, before "completing the cycle"

Edited November 3, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 hour ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Is it really the first? I find that hard to believe.

In any case, all plutonium breeders are energy positive once the cycle is complete. So positive that if all mined uranium was sent through this cycle, we'd have nuclear power for millions of years at our current consumption. 

Actually, I am not exactly sure what the difference is to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BN-800_reactor (operational since 2014)

since it is also classified as Gen IV (closed cycle)

and its predecessor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BN-600_reactor (1981)

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BN-350_reactor (1973)

All of those seem to have been connected to the grid like regular nukes. Dunno why they always only had one running. Here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BN-Reactor

it is claimed that those were the only commercially operated breeders as of 2015.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[nsdp + 449]

4 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Got a 5 wire service

 

The difference between N and PE (blue vs green-yellow) is local, as per TN-C-S earthing setup

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system#IEC_terminology

In general, they would not ever give you two phases in Europe. It is either one or three. You seem to be describing a split-phase arrangement typical for US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

If I were to do this, I'd get ~460 volt delta, for which I have no obvious use. 400V wye needs two phases. I could take any 2/3 phases for that, but there is no standard socket for that either. 240 is British, Germany/Austria downgraded to 230 for the time being after Brexit. It is 230 to either N (neutral) or PE (ground), but an RCCD is supposed to trip if I connect N and PE myself.

I am telling you the stupid works stove uses all the phases for ad hoc load balancing. It is supposed to be hardwired with this

https://www.amazon.de/Xavax-Solides-Anschlusskabel-Elektroherd-Elektroherd-Zuleitung/dp/B0026MT4D4?language=en_GB

They don''t really give you split phase in North America.    That is a misnomer created by some British electricians and electrical engineers when they encountered the North American standard in Canada and CFE in Mexico.  They did not and still do not understand the difference of 60 degree phase angles on the primary and secondary if it were truly split phase. It is only one phase angle. .  IF the Primary is  one wire and a neutral WYE primary connection. Power only flows one way at a time in a primary conductor,  it cannot flow two ways on the secondary simultaneously without canceling out the voltage on the primary.   It can be done at your peril with two primary conductors connected in a single phase delta transformer connection , AT YOUR PERIL. Secondary phase angle is 180Degrees while Primary is 120 degree.

I understand exactly what you have.You have a standard wye transformer secondary with a carried neutral as a return conductor  with each phase and separate ground not connected on the secondary but to primary neutral. . . Could be 1 or two transformers also. Each is connected hot wire to neutral. Neutral is  connected back to the conductor connected to all transformers at the pole. Ground connects to the primary ground.

Edited November 4, 2021 by nsdp
grammar

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

5 hours ago, nsdp said:

They don''t really give you split phase in North America.    That is a misnomer created by some British electricians and electrical engineers when they encountered the North American standard in Canada and CFE in Mexico.  They did not and still do not understand the difference of 60 degree phase angles on the primary and secondary if it were truly split phase. It is only one phase angle. .  IF the Primary is  one wire and a neutral WYE primary connection. Power only flows one way at a time in a primary conductor,  it cannot flow two ways on the secondary simultaneously without canceling out the voltage on the primary.   It can be done at your peril with two primary conductors connected in a single phase delta transformer connection , AT YOUR PERIL. Secondary phase angle is 180Degrees while Primary is 120 degree.

I understand exactly what you have.You have a standard wye transformer secondary with a carried neutral as a return conductor  with each phase and separate ground not connected on the secondary but to primary neutral. . . Could be 1 or two transformers also. Each is connected hot wire to neutral. Neutral is  connected back to the conductor connected to all transformers at the pole. Ground connects to the primary ground.

The way I see it that you get two phases 180deg apart and separated by a central tap of a distribution transformer that is right in front of your house (which is rarely the case in Europe) So, one pin is +115 and another at -115, so the difference doesn't cancel, but double for 2x dV = 230V. Or, you've got a long circuit breaker spanning two columns of of regular 115V breakers. A little known fact is that prewar Germany used to do that (at +/- 127V) which results in ongoing confusion whether the hot wire in European sockets is left or right (should be left, like in the Czech standard though)

If you don't have "split phase", you might have this abomination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-leg_delta

The British have their own split phase transformer based standard for construction site at ~110V (both wires are hot at about 1/2 the US supply voltage or 1/4 European) Like this

https://tmctransformers.co.uk/transformers/construction-site-transformers

Seems like there is a reserved CEE plug color yellow for this.

TN-C-S setup does not connect the ground back to transformer neutral. There is a grounding bus that is strictly separate from the booth where the supply voltage enters (as 4 wires, not 5) And it is, I found a separate booth where it lives (all the appartment's N wires connect centrally to PE back again)

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 10/28/2021 at 4:04 AM, ronwagn said:

https://freebeacon.com/policy/green-groups-thwarting-geothermal-solutions-to-energy-problems/

Green Groups Thwarting Geothermal Solutions to Energy Problems

Pro-geothermal bill would make it easier to generate affordable, renewable energy

Just found out that 20% of California renewables came from here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geysers

(2019 data) which is also world's largest, according to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_power_stations#Geothermal

Interestingly enough, most wells go back to the 60ties, way before renewables became hip.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

18 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

AFAIK, that hasn't really been demonstrated, except in benchtop prototypes so far. The problem is random junk that is neither plutonium nor fissionable uranium. Possibly

There are some pretty creative ideas for dealing with decay products.

Zirconium products, for instance, can be used as fuel cladding. It doesn't matter if it's radioactive since it would be placed in the core (where everything is radioactive, surprisingly). The issue here is that some of the isotopes are neutron poisons, which inhibits reactor functionality as you know. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

40 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

There are some pretty creative ideas for dealing with decay products.

Zirconium products, for instance, can be used as fuel cladding. It doesn't matter if it's radioactive since it would be placed in the core (where everything is radioactive, surprisingly). The issue here is that some of the isotopes are neutron poisons, which inhibits reactor functionality as you know. 

I understand the molten lead heat transfer thing. When anything goes wrong, it turns into a very large solid chunk of lead, sealing the badbadabum inside. Solid lead is pretty good shielding for anything.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:32 AM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

This stuff works all right

https://electratherm.com/products/

and is just a screw compressor. Note the aircon that generates electricity on the side.

I am wondering if large computer installations are using their waste heat? Something like aircon or other processes could be used. The use of the heat is truly green versus only counting the source of the electricity. 

Ideally Ice engines should also be addressed. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

14 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I am wondering if large computer installations are using their waste heat? Something like aircon or other processes could be used. The use of the heat is truly green versus only counting the source of the electricity. 

Ideally Ice engines should also be addressed. 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ibm-cools-supercomputer-with-hot-water/

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ibm-cools-supercomputer-with-hot-water/

Thank you for that Andrei! Very simple. There is more waste heat that is wasted by mankind that its use would greatly reduce the need for fuel to heat with, and some could even be turned into electricity. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

6 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Thank you for that Andrei! Very simple. There is more waste heat that is wasted by mankind that its use would greatly reduce the need for fuel to heat with, and some could even be turned into electricity. 

Also, waste COLD. Anything for the delta t. Hence my obvious observation that a properly setup car combustion engine ought to be more efficient to operate with the aircon on. (Or no forced cooling whatsoever, like the Nazi aircraft diesel pig iron engines of yore)

Edited November 4, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,130]

13 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The way I see it that you get two phases 180deg apart and separated by a central tap of a distribution transformer that is right in front of your house (which is rarely the case in Europe) So, one pin is +115 and another at -115, so the difference doesn't cancel, but double for 2x dV = 230V. Or, you've got a long circuit breaker spanning two columns of of regular 115V breakers. A little known fact is that prewar Germany used to do that (at +/- 127V) which results in ongoing confusion whether the hot wire in European sockets is left or right (should be left, like in the Czech standard though)

If you don't have "split phase", you might have this abomination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-leg_delta

The British have their own split phase transformer based standard for construction site at ~110V (both wires are hot at about 1/2 the US supply voltage or 1/4 European) Like this

https://tmctransformers.co.uk/transformers/construction-site-transformers

Seems like there is a reserved CEE plug color yellow for this.

TN-C-S setup does not connect the ground back to transformer neutral. There is a grounding bus that is strictly separate from the booth where the supply voltage enters (as 4 wires, not 5) And it is, I found a separate booth where it lives (all the appartment's N wires connect centrally to PE back again)

Partially true.  Most residential housing is as you describe.  Some parts also have 208V.  Commercial is almost universally 3 phase power in the USA. 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Thank you for that Andrei! Very simple. There is more waste heat that is wasted by mankind that its use would greatly reduce the need for fuel to heat with, and some could even be turned into electricity. 

Luckily, most industrial sites with high temperature waste heat almost always reuse it in a way that reduces energy cost. Refineries are an excellent example. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

45 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Partially true.  Most residential housing is as you describe.  Some parts also have 208V.  Commercial is almost universally 3 phase power in the USA. 

208V is the "high leg" of the "high leg delta"

[nsdp + 449]

5 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

208V is the "high leg" of the "high leg delta"

5-7% is 120/208 Wye

 

6 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Partially true.  Most residential housing is as you describe.  Some parts also have 208V.  Commercial is almost universally 3 phase power in the USA. 

By number of meters installed most commercial (55%) 120/240 single phase is most common if EPRI data bases are used. All street light circuits are also single phase by NERC standards NESC-2. Use of 120/240 volt three phase 4 wire delta begins at 50kva due to smart meter measurement problems https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2019/ NIST.IR.8248.pdf with LED lighting and other LED loads. IEEE and the Dutch  published first in December 2016. 120/208 service is limited to existing service entrances using old electromechanical meters.  Snall 120/240 loads are being converted back to 120/240 single phase for better metering.  By KWH sales , 277/480 volt  wye and 2400 /4160 volt wye represent greater kwh sales than 120/240 3 phase.  There are stray services like 480 volt delta in industrial use and 2400 delta in river and flood control.

mullard03082018.pdf

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 11/4/2021 at 9:20 PM, ronwagn said:

I am wondering if large computer installations are using their waste heat? Something like aircon or other processes could be used. The use of the heat is truly green versus only counting the source of the electricity. 

Ideally Ice engines should also be addressed. 

They do address ICE engines, in form of stationary diesel gensets so far. You unplug the radiator and all the ventilators, and plug their compressor into the cooling cycle instead. Presto, it makes a little extra electricity for you. Since the fancifully named

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_Rankine_cycle

is really a glorified fridge or aircon with carefully selected working fluid (tailored to your waste heat's temperature range) this would also work for a smaller, automotive size ICE in combination with the car's own aircon, for sure. That's the beauty of it...

Edited November 5, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[nsdp + 449]

1 hour ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

They do address ICE engines, in form of stationary diesel gensets so far. You unplug the radiator and all the ventilators, and plug their compressor into the cooling cycle instead. Presto, it makes a little extra electricity for you. Since the fancifully named

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_Rankine_cycle

is really a glorified fridge or aircon with carefully selected working fuel (tailored to your waste heat's temperature range) this would also work for a smaller, automotive size ICE in combination with the car's own aircon, for sure. That's the beauty of it...

Because of energy costs in Japan these are regular parts of buildings there. https://www.vamtec.com/absorption-chiller/

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

5 minutes ago, nsdp said:

Because of energy costs in Japan these are regular parts of buildings there. https://www.vamtec.com/absorption-chiller/

But their buildings are still made out of most elegant Japanese cardboard?!?