Ukrainian Maidan after 8 years

[ronwagn + 6,290]

It has nothing to do , for me, with nationalities or cultures but just with who foments and carries out the atrocities. Americans have skeletons too, just not so many. 

[Tomasz + 1,608]

In the context of Ukraine, let me note that Russia is currently implementing, let's say, the Venezuelan or Iranian variant in Ukraine, in line with the best practices of the United States, so there will be no military aggression.

However, the Venezuelan variant will be or is already being implemented in the coming winter by:

-no gas reverse to Ukraine via Hungary

-no energy coal exports from Russia, Donbass and Kazakhstan to Ukraine

-no electricity exports from Russia and Belarus to Ukraine

In even more radical variants, there is also a lack of Belarusian diesel exports to Ukraine and even the lack of exports of nuclear fuel by Rosatom to Ukraine, although this would probably threaten the second Chernobyl and met with a fierce attitude from the international community, because the oppression of Ukrainians is something else, see the attitude of the USA towards Cuba after 1959 and a different vision of the new Chernobyl, so it would be a very radical option. The Ukrainians are, in any case, aware of the whip the Belarusians have on them in the context of diesel exports to Ukraine - no diesel from Belarus and within a week the whole Ukraine is standing. I recommend it in the context of Poland's border conflict with Belarus and Ukraine's attitude in this conflict.

Well, some probably demand that Russia now helps anti-Russian Ukraine economically. And that she would gladly welcome NATO troops a few hundred kilometers from Moscow. If someone wanted peace in Europe, it was necessary not to organize Maidan, because now there will be no peace and those who organized and supported the Ukrainian Maidan are responsible

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

9 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Russia and America should be allies again. It would be better for Russia, Europe, and America. 

Easier said that done, with everybody seeing Russian influence behind everything. And before we continue, do check for Russian operatives under your bed, Ron. Because we are gonna be talking sensitive FBI materials here! This just in. Did you know most of the online supporters of Kyle Rittenhouse were actually Russian or Chinese?

https://www.rawstory.com/kyle-rittenhouse-support-tweets-international/

I bet you didn't.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The richer Russia gets, the less "want out" Same as everywhere. Many who already left are actually returning now. Russia is 2nd or 3rd most common IMMIGRATION destination itself, behind USA and possibly Germany only. The actual population is likely closer to 155 mil, counting the illegals.

Russia certainly is in no need of "international help" Especially not from the Americans. The Chinese are considered a very low level threat. Unlike you.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country

Russia is far behind Western Europe in this analysis (go to the end). The United States is rated behind Western Europe also, so it is all a matter of opinion in the end. I lived in Germany for 26 months and do not rate them or Austria better. For me, Russia is big and beautiful but too cold. Most analyses are made to include societal supports rather than individualism and freedoms IMHO. Putin has been shutting down churches which are not to his liking. He favors the Russian Orthodox, which is watched closely and strengthens his standing. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

5 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Easier said that done, with everybody seeing Russian influence behind everything. And before we continue, do check for Russian operatives under your bed, Ron. Because we are gonna be talking sensitive FBI materials here! This just in. Did you know most of the online supports of Kyle Rittenhouse were actually Russian or Chinese?

https://www.rawstory.com/kyle-rittenhouse-support-tweets-international/

I bet you didn't.

I am one of them. If this happened in Russia, Kyle would have more support than here methinks. 

I think you have it backwards, I think that the supporters in China and Russia would be paid by the authorities and pose as Black Lives Matter no nothings. BLM is based on the lie that there was a real reason to riot in Ferguson, MO near St. Louis. The FBI was sent by Obama to influence the local police and keep them from suppressing the rioters. 

The American FBI is now like the FSB, if I have that right. American patriots now call the FBI the FIB for lie or liars. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB

Edited November 22, 2021 by ronwagn

[Tomasz + 1,608]

In trade, despite the sanctions, there is rather no Cold War. This year, Russian oil and product exports to the USA are already reaching 1 million barrels per day - the number 2 exporter after Canada

Actually according to bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-18/russian-fleet-heading-to-new-york-may-help-ease-diesel-pain

Looking at stattics - January-September 2021 18 bilion trade

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4621.html

Its actually higher in 9 months then in all whole  precedent years after 2012

Russian export about +70% y/y

If we talk about recent sanctions it looks like trend is receding

Quote

Those who hoped U.S. would finally issue strong response over Navalny poisoning will be hugely disappointed: State Department announced virtually non-existent sanctions related to Russia as part of second round of CBW Act sanctions.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Tomasz

[ronwagn + 6,290]

26 minutes ago, Tomasz said:

In the context of Ukraine, let me note that Russia is currently implementing, let's say, the Venezuelan or Iranian variant in Ukraine, in line with the best practices of the United States, so there will be no military aggression.

However, the Venezuelan variant will be or is already being implemented in the coming winter by:

-no gas reverse to Ukraine via Hungary

-no energy coal exports from Russia, Donbass and Kazakhstan to Ukraine

-no electricity exports from Russia and Belarus to Ukraine

In even more radical variants, there is also a lack of Belarusian diesel exports to Ukraine and even the lack of exports of nuclear fuel by Rosatom to Ukraine, although this would probably threaten the second Chernobyl and met with a fierce attitude from the international community, because the oppression of Ukrainians is something else, see the attitude of the USA towards Cuba after 1959 and a different vision of the new Chernobyl, so it would be a very radical option. The Ukrainians are, in any case, aware of the whip the Belarusians have on them in the context of diesel exports to Ukraine - no diesel from Belarus and within a week the whole Ukraine is standing. I recommend it in the context of Poland's border conflict with Belarus and Ukraine's attitude in this conflict.

Well, some probably demand that Russia now helps anti-Russian Ukraine economically. And that she would gladly welcome NATO troops a few hundred kilometers from Moscow. If someone wanted peace in Europe, it was necessary not to organize Maidan, because now there will be no peace and those who organized and supported the Ukrainian Maidan are responsible

Who, in your opinion, organized it? Not Ukranians I suppose. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

5 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country

Russia is far behind Western Europe in this analysis (go to the end). The United States is rated behind Western Europe also, so it is all a matter of opinion in the end. I lived in Germany for 26 months and do not rate them or Austria better. For me, Russia is big and beautiful but too cold. Most analyses are made to include societal supports rather than individualism and freedoms IMHO. Putin has been shutting down churches which are not to his liking. He favors the Russian Orthodox, which is watched closely and strengthens his standing. 

It is highly perceptual, relative and localized. I live in Austria now and think that it sucks compared to my previous life in Bay Area. Only Switzerland is worse.

Putin has NOT been shutting down churches. Quite on the contrary. You could say that he tries to introduce a centralized control to religious fruitcake activity, in the best spirit of Ottoman or Russian Empire, where religion was a government ministry.

Just look at him engaged in some Jewish activities

(Plenty more examples) Basic idea is that he hired some murky Hasidic sect out of Italy? to play Russia's main rabbis and it actually flew. Because there aren't many observing Jews around.

He's also got himself a designated main Mullah of all Russia, with appropriately styled hat

placed in the largest mosques with most minarets in relatively terrorism-safe Ufa. (This guy's position remains contested so far)

If you mean "churches" like Scientology or Jehovah's Witnesses, then yeah. They are considered abusive for-profit sects. Are they not?

[Tomasz + 1,608]

In fact I look at statistics

Iimports from Russia to the USA from May 2021 looks like that

May 2,738.0

June 2021 2,719

.1 July 2021 2,998.9

August 2021 2,825.9

September 2021 2,580.9

5 months imports of USD 13.860 billion

Does the US want to become the largest importer from Russia after the People's Republic of China?

 Then it makes sense at the expense of Europe. Maybe this was the point in attacking Merkel because in a moment the USA will be ahead of Germany in terms of imports?

Edited November 23, 2021 by Tomasz

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

It is highly perceptual, relative and localized. I live in Austria now and think that it sucks compared to my previous life in Bay Area. Only Switzerland is worse.

Putin has NOT been shutting down churches. Quite on the contrary. You could say that he tries to introduce a centralized control to religious fruitcake activity, in the best spirit of Ottoman or Russian Empire, where religion was a government ministry.

Just look at him engaged in some Jewish activities

(Plenty more examples) Basic idea is that he hired some murky Hasidic sect out of Italy? to play Russia's main rabbis and it actually flew. Because there aren't many observing Jews around.

He's also got himself a designated main Mullah of all Russia, with appropriately styled hat

placed in the largest mosques with most minarets in relatively terrorism-safe Ufa. (This guy's position remains contested so far)

If you mean "churches" like Scientology or Jehovah's Witnesses, then yeah. They are considered abusive for-profit sects. Are they not?

I believe it includes the Latter Day Saints, which many Christians consider an undesirable sect. Many Christians would agree with Putin's choices. I prefer freedom, but Christianity in itself has a mixed history of oppressing opponents. I am a Lutheran but Luther came to dislike Jews and that did not turn out well because Hitler used that as an excuse for his pogroms and concentration camps. Hitler was an Occultist who admired Muslims because of their barbarity. He used them as allies also. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

23 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I am one of them. If this happened in Russia, Kyle would have more support than here methinks. 

I think you have it backwards, I think that the supporters in China and Russia would be paid by the authorities and pose as Black Lives Matter no nothings. BLM is based on the lie that there was a real reason to riot in Ferguson, MO near St. Louis. The FBI was sent by Obama to influence the local police and keep them from suppressing the rioters. 

The American FBI is now like the FSB, if I have that right. American patriots now call the FBI the FIB for lie or liars. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB

I suspected as much

Some 98% of Russians and damn close to 100% of Chinese have not the slightest clue who Kyle Rittenhouse is.

BLM is EXTREMELY unpopular in Russia. Again, the Chinese are likely oblivious to its existence. Possibly, there are too many old Commies around who still remember what original people's protests were about? They perceive BLM as evil caricature to that. Here is a front page of Izvestiya from early 80-ties, saying "Negroes demand work!"

(It is from some black demonstration in NYC) Note the strategically placed logo of IBM, an organization of known strategic foresight only benevolent monopolies have

You are thinking too high of the KGB. They never were any good at "soft power" The whole concept of Orwellian Newspeak that is your day-to-day reality now is entirely alien in Russian context. It doesn't work. The Soviet propaganda never got that slick.

You also overestimating the ability of Russian government to hire trolls at American going rates. Somebody who is reasonably fluent in English / other Western languages is automatically a too high end an employee for trolling online already. You, on the other hand, now have a near unlimited "talent pool" of Ukrainians willing to troll for food.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

8 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I believe it includes the Latter Day Saints, which many Christians consider an undesirable sect. Many Christians would agree with Putin's choices. I prefer freedom, but Christianity in itself has a mixed history of oppressing opponents. I am a Lutheran but Luther came to dislike Jews and that did not turn out well because Hitler used that as an excuse for his pogroms and concentration camps. Hitler was an Occultist who admired Muslims because of their barbarity. He used them as allies also. 

The Mormons? Don't think so. They are too annoyingly positive for that. Like a bunch of Flenderses from Simpsons. A bunch of them sitting next to me on transatlantic flight actually got me to fix OpenOffice on their computers, reasoning that it is wrong to steal from Microsoft! Still ashamed of that.

Just before I was made, in 1973 Cairo where my parents were working for the government, there was an American couple really trying to be their best friends. They asked the KGB guy what the heck was the deal with that and he looked them up and said that they are Mormons who are trying to convert them to their religion. Which is entirely harmless and they may do whatever.

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

The American FBI is now like the FSB, if I have that right. American patriots now call the FBI the FIB for lie or liars. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB

 

The overwhelming majority of KGB/FSB staff was/is the Soviet/Russian Border Guard. Not very exciting stuff.

Followed by fighting the organized crime (like FBI) and only than, counterintelligence.

They are not supposed to be doing any foreign intelligence work anymore. That part (used to be KGB's 1st directorate) has now been spun in a separate, much smaller, agency  called the SVR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Service_(Russia)

Edited November 23, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[ronwagn + 6,290]

29 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

The Mormons? Don't think so. They are too annoyingly positive for that. Like a bunch of Flenderses from Simpsons. A bunch of them sitting next to me on transatlantic flight actually got me to fix OpenOffice on their computers, reasoning that it is wrong to steal from Microsoft! Still ashamed of that.

Just before I was made, in 1973 Cairo where my parents were working for the government, there was an American couple really trying to be their best friends. They asked the KGB guy what the heck was the deal with that and he looked them up and said that they are Mormons who are trying to convert them to their religion. Which is entirely harmless and they may do whatever.

I used to like Mormons a lot, but saw some flaws in their beliefs. I still like them, but have not met any lately.  They have elected and supported Mitt Romney, who I despise, and also had Harry Reid who was the Senate Majority Leader. Both are crooked as hell, and Mormon. Mormons have special emergency supply stores for low price grain and various long lasting emergency foodstuffs. A great place for preppers to save money. 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

7 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I used to like Mormons a lot, but saw some flaws in their beliefs. I still like them, but have not met any lately.  They have elected and supported Mitt Romney, who I despise, and also had Harry Reid who was the Senate Majority Leader. Both are crooked as hell, and Mormon. Mormons have special emergency supply stores for low price grain and various long lasting emergency foodstuffs. A great place for preppers to save money. 

All of your politicians are crooked as hell. They are for sale to the highest bidder.

I had a true Mormon Epiphany once, in witnessing the 3rd coming of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Kimball

Amen!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

All of your politicians are crooked as hell. They are for sale to the highest bidder.

I had a true Mormon Epiphany once, in witnessing the 3rd coming of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Kimball

Amen!

I would probably say you are one third right, one third partially right, and one third wrong. Then again, I am an optimist regarding human behavior and willing to give the benefit of the doubt too frequently. 

While we are at it, here is the Yaraslova law, which is quite dictatorial toward missionary work etc. https://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-in-russia-under-attack-from-putins-law-banning-evangelism-outside-of-churches.html

 

 

 

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I would probably say you are one third right, one third partially right, and one third wrong. Then again, I am an optimist regarding human behavior and willing to give the benefit of the doubt too frequently. 

While we are at it, here is the Yaraslova law, which is quite dictatorial toward missionary work etc. https://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-in-russia-under-attack-from-putins-law-banning-evangelism-outside-of-churches.html

 

 

 

Yarovaya law is annoying in many ways, but actually affects legitimate missionary work very little. All you need is a credible presentation of your organization as a religious one.

Otherwise, anybody can register a non-profit claiming to be a church somewhere in Delaware and proceed to use it for stupid stunts like forcing LGBT weddings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarovaya_law#Anti-evangelism_provisions_2

This makes the Russian legislature about missionaries more restrictive than US', but still milder than most countries. Even European ones. Israel prohibits all missionary activity. If you try, you are deported and banned from entry for good. Try that LGBT wedding stunt in Saudi Arabia or Iran and they'll hang you on a crane.

Also, your article has an obvious sponsor in form of some splinter Russian Orthodox faction called the Autonomous Church. USA alone has no less than two Russian Orthodox splinter churches more significant than them. My favorite one is called ROCA - Russian Othodox Church Abroad.  Check them out. Those guys are rich, way connected with Western churches and mischievous. Seem to be planning for Reconquista of Ukraine for example. Claim to be irreconcilable with Moscow Patriarchate on the account of their most sacred rite - cursing the Latin Pope anew every Sunday. I think their bishops get promoted on the basis who is most creative for excommunicating each other for the sin of ecumenism.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Starschy + 211]

Big dissapointement since 2014.

 

There is zero improvement in this Country. Biggest issue there is no Elite available politically and in the Economic sector.

Ukraine Stock exchange

5300 Transaction annually Nov 2020 - Nov 2021

over 11800000 Transactions Nov 2012 - Nov 2013

Malyshev the large Tank Company produced 1 single Tank from 2011-2019.

The Compny was visited by Mr. Zelensky in 2019.

 

Antonow the largest Company in the Airplane Sector produced not even one single Airplane per year since 2010-2021. All Russian Orders have been cancelled besides old AN-26 Airplanes (Maintenance Kits) which will disappear in 2025.

 

The Seaports in the Azov Sea handle only 40-50% of the Volume from 2012. There is a lack of Investment for Cargo handling.

Ukraine International reserves 30 Billion USD, compare with Russia 625 Billion USD.

Military Budget 5.2 Billion for the second largest Country in Europe 602000 km2

Military Budget for Switzerland 5 Billion CHF 41000 km2 no Navy.

Even when the USA would donate 30 Billion till 2030 Ukraine would not have a chance against Russia in a War.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Starschy

[Tomasz + 1,608]

There is a slow strangling of Ukraine, the aim of which is to make Ukraine a state incapable of functioning independently.

Russia, in my opinion, does not have to do anything special what Ukraine would not do on its own.

Because what she does in public and what she does quietly are two completely different things.

The Ukrainians publicly announce that all economic ties with Russia have been severed, but they are quietly trading with Russia.

So Russia  gradually reduces also these illicit trade turnover, and thus deprives the government of Kiev of resources to function.

In this way, the maintenance of Ukraine falls on the shoulders of the West, which is very dissatisfied because of this.

And the worse the financial situation of Ukrainians, the more disatisfied is West in relation with Russia, and therefore there is  greater verbal aggression towards Moscow and Putin personally.

So when I hear or read that Russia is doing something very bad in Ukraine, I understand it in this way - the West had gibe so money to Ukraine again so that it would not go bankrupt.

But finally it must go bankrupt as a state, because it has already been divided among those who consider it an artificial creation made of pieces of lands belonging to other countries.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,129]

On 11/22/2021 at 12:53 AM, Andrei Moutchkine said:

"Free speakers" are surely punished a lot less than In US. No net censorship whatsoever on RUnet, for example, and nobody getting "de-platformed" No fear of getting cancelled by the cancel culture, no matter what you say.

Correct, in Russia, you have free speech, until you get a bad case of dead.  Putin and Company do not bother with deplatforming

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

11 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Correct, in Russia, you have free speech, until you get a bad case of dead.  Putin and Company do not bother with deplatforming

This hypothetically affects a couple of celebrity cases. Regular people may say whatever they want. Do you really think that you may not criticize Putin in Russia? In fact, there are media that do nothing else. You don't have anything like that - strictly anti-government media which openly works against its own government and for its enemies. I mean 100% of the time, and not just occasionally critical or critical of a specific politician.

You talk too much in US - you don't work in this industry anymore. Affects most people you know.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Andrei Moutchkine

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

12 hours ago, Tomasz said:

But finally it must go bankrupt as a state, because it has already been divided among those who consider it an artificial creation made of pieces of lands belonging to other countries.

Rekonkwista Kresów Wschodnich?

[Piotr Berman + 82]

This is unlikely (reconquering eastern lands lost, in part, to Ukraine).  But if you ask Poles if they can find a single positive aspects of Russians, the most frequent answer would be that it was a real pleasure to see how they clobbered Ukrainians.

3 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Rekonkwista Kresów Wschodnich?

 

[Tomasz + 1,608]

5 hours ago, Piotr Berman said:

This is unlikely (reconquering eastern lands lost, in part, to Ukraine).  But if you ask Poles if they can find a single positive aspects of Russians, the most frequent answer would be that it was a real pleasure to see how they clobbered Ukrainians.

 

For me, the two greatest positive changes in Poland thanks to Russian influence are two fundamental events for the social history of Poland. Tsar Alexander II abolished serfdom on more favorable terms than in Russia itself.

And the so-called silent  revolution after World War II according to Andrzej Leder, the most important being the agricultural reform in 1944.

These are the most fundamental events in the social history of the Polish lands.

[Tomasz + 1,608]

There are no oligarchs in russified  Belarus.

In Russia there are, but the Kremlin is center of power  as agreed

Putin's legendary meeting with the oligarchs at the beginning of his tenure that they are not allowed to get into politics.

There are memes all over the net on this topic. Its legendary because  against was Khodorkovsky and he protested loudly because he really wanted to get into politics - its called YUKOS CASE.

 Such oligarchs like Deripaska Alekperov (Lukoil)  Mordashov adopted the rules of the new game

- there is no re-nationalization what you steal in 90s because it would end in another October revolution

-now you pay taxes FAIRLY

-you don't get involved in governing the country

And in Ukraine, there were borderline kings from the Polish Saxon times (it means oligarchs may he more real power like Akmetow) thaan Zelensky .

There is a hit video like Zelenski telling the oligarchs to take the topic of Covid as oligarchs in their royal lands. I would have to look, but it's worth it because it shows who has real power in their hand.

The reality is that Zelenskiy has been struggling currenty to have at least some positions like Putin for 20 years and these famous arrangements, so we have a war Zelenskiy versus the oligarchs primarily Akhmetov

Kommersant, who is a very reliable newspaper, writes that there is a common front in the media (Poroshenko Tymoshenko Razumkov, Ukrainian nationalists).

To be clear, both Poroshenko (Ukrainian nationalism) and Medvedchuk' (the Russian option for Ukraine) are attacking Zelensky similarly.

They accused  Zelensky from every angle in propaganda on the screen of Akhmetov's TV station

And the do this because Ukraine is an oligarchic state and Akhmetov, and probably also Poroshenko are now attacking Zelensky

The reason is the law on oligarchs.

Peace is not likely to be there.